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Tomahawk
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11/03/2018 07:55PM
I was attempting to get more info on Tomahawk Timber Co. and their Camp 4 & Camp 5 north of Isabella Lake. I got onto this sight and read some of Jackpine Jim's comments on the Maniwaki Lake camp. I had been there back in the late 1960s and also in the early 1970s and would like to find out more. Is Jackpine Jim still out there somewhere?
 
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JackpineJim
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11/04/2018 09:20PM
Yep, I'm still kicking and log in now and again. Happy to share what I know.
The Great Outdoors
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11/05/2018 12:55AM
Tomahawk Timber Co. had their office in Ely, and was located upstairs of Frank's Variety next to the State Theater.

You may want to contact the Trygg Land Office, as they had maps that show logging camps and several Indian Villages in the entire area. I also think they have a book with the info.

There are still some old loggers that worked in those camps, and I know one that was born in a camp next to Insula Lake.

All the Camps had numbers for names, and the history is very interesting.
EL
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11/05/2018 10:31AM
Jackpine,
Good to hear from you! As I said earlier, it was ironic how I got on this website. I was hoping to get pictures of Tomahawk Timber's Camp 4 but so far, no luck. But I got onto your response and you seemed so knowledgeable about the area. I'm here to pick your brain of your experiences in that country.
I knew of Camp 4 back in 1967 or thereabouts and as we were on our way from Polly Lake to Hazel lake, I knew we would come across Camp 4 at the end of Polly. I was disappointed to find out that not much was left of the buildings I somehow expected to see. All that was left at that time were the concrete footings of some buildings and some rotted out wooden timbers, I'm sure that the powers-to-be have somehow even eliminated those footings by now to make it appear more like a "wilderness." When we continued to Hazel Lake on Phoebe Creek, we crossed the portage going east out of Hazel back into Phoebe Creek. On that portage was a road the width of the Tomahawk Road back in the days of Forest Center. All graveled, heavily used and wide enough for 2 pulp trucks to pass, the road came from just south of Kawishiwi Lake. Many years later I was back there, coming up from Phoebe Lake to Hazel. I knew the road had been there but you really had to look hard for it, a person not knowing it was there would never know it was there.
I know a guy that lived in not only Forest Center (Camp 3) but also Camp 4 and Camp 5. I knew about Camp 4 but had no idea where Camp 5 was. I asked him about Camp 5 and he said he couldn't recall, he was only 6 or 7 yrs. old at the time. But you claimed Camp 5 was near the southwest end of Maniwaki Lake. I was also in to Maniwaki back in the late 60s. We usually camped on Insula Lake and went through Hope, South Hope to get into Maniwaki. The area was loaded with moose at the time, supposedly the highest moose numbers per mile in the lower 48. As you left South Hope and went south on a creek to a portage that ran east/west (I recall it as around 120 rods) that went to Maniwaki Lake, the portage crossed Maniwaki Creek just before arriving at the lake. My memory of that time tells me that at that crossing there was also a truck bridge at that location for a road that came from the Isabella North Road. The North Road was only about 1/4 mi. (or less) away at this point. Do you have any recollection of that bridge? Where exactly was Camp 5 at this point?
I talked to a logger from Ely that cut that area after Tomahawk left in 1964 and he said he doesn't recall a bridge there. If no bridge then there must've at least been culverts there for that road that ran north up into the Fishdance Lake area. My memory might be all wet on that bridge but was wondering if you knew of one there? It's bothered me ever since I asked this logger about it and he didn't recall it.
Back in the early 70s a friend & I walked up to this point on the Isabella North Road and walked into Maniwaki Creek and I seem to recall that bridge there then also (but memories are fine when they work, but recalling something that far back might be a challenge), came back to the North Road and continued on up past a road the went into Baskatong Lake. I think Camp 5 and Camp 4 were only about 5 miles apart and our goal was to get to Camp 4 but there was a culvert that had been pulled out after Baskatong on the North Road and we turned around and headed back toward Isabella Lake. The North Road that went north past Camp 4 went up into Malberg/Koma Lake area but forked south of Polly Lake and went to the west over toward Townline Lake. It crossed the Townline portage and you could definitely see the road that was starting to grow in.
So, do you recall that bridge at Maniwaki Creek? Is that where Camp 5 was? What is your connection to area that makes you so very knowledgeable?
Hope to hear back from you soon.
ellahallely
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11/05/2018 04:45PM
After the Pagami fire I was amazed how many old roads and rail road grades that could easily be seen from the air. I also heard an old car was found up in the Hope lake area. Before the fire from the air you couldn't see any sign of a road or people. I always knew the roads were there but they were hard to spot. As things are growing back now things are disappearing again. I am sure if you flew above the area in the early spring you could still see signs of the camps and roads you talk about.

JIM
The Great Outdoors
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11/05/2018 08:46PM
Yes there are a lot of old artifacts left from the logging days. At the Palmquist Cutting site on the Wolf Lake Road a few miles before Schlamn Lake, there is a '56 Chevy in the woods.
EL
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11/06/2018 11:46AM
I was grouse hunting once way back when on what was the Isabella East Road. The road ran east out of Forest Center over toward Perent River and Kawishiwi lake. At that time the road was still driveable but closed to the public. I had passed the trail into Tomahawk Lake when I scared up a bird that flew off the side pf the road. I shot the bird and went over to pick it up, about 30'-40' off the east Road. When I picked bird up I stepped on something that made a holow sound and moved. I kicked a layer of leaves and soil off what was the hood of a red car. A closer look told me that an entire car had probably been bulldozed over and flatteened from the Tomahawk days instead of hauling it out. On another trip I scared up a bird over on the roaf that went toward Quadga Lake. The bird kept flying on short flights and I never did get a shot off but I came right up to a '53 black Buick. It was mostly intact and to this day I still reember looking at one of the tail light lenses, of all things. The tail light lenses back then were glass and about 1/2" thick............
The Great Outdoors
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11/06/2018 12:41PM
Some may not know that the taillights had the year of the car stamped on them.
ellahallely
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11/06/2018 12:45PM
EL, Jackpine do you live in the Arrowhead region? I remember people living and logging in the Sawbill landing area. I think it was the early 70s when they left Sawbill Landing. Some of the house were moved to Isabella. I know a girl that lives in Isabella and her father lived and worked at Sawbill Landing.
JackpineJim
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11/06/2018 08:34PM
ellahallely: "EL, Jackpine do you live in the Arrowhead region? I remember people living and logging in the Sawbill landing area. I think it was the early 70s when they left Sawbill Landing. Some of the house were moved to Isabella. I know a girl that lives in Isabella and her father lived and worked at Sawbill Landing."
My Dad grew up in the Tomahawk Timber Company logging camps in in the early 1940s beginning at Camp 1 near Babbitt, MN. He went to grade school in Camp 2 at the juncture of the Tomahawk Road and Highway 1 going East to Isabella Lake. His first job as a logger he lived in Camp 4 Polly Camp then Boga Camp near Boga Lake. He logged the South East of Koma Lake and other relatives logged the East side of Boze Lake. I was born in Winton hospital when we lived in Boga Camp, North of Camp 5 close Maniwaki Lake. I don't remember that area as we moved to Camp 6 near the Stoney River when I was 4 yeas old in 1959. We kids from Camp 6 were bused to grade school in Forest Center and my family were the last to leave Camp 6 in summer of 1965. We moved to northern Wisconsin where I went to high school. I then went away to the University of California, Berkeley and then on to grad school at MIT in Cambridge, MA.
After a few more stops I worked my way back to the Twin Cities where I live now and have had a few chances to poke around the old logging camp sites and roads. There are some photographs and videos of the camps on the
Forest Center Facebook page maintained by Bill Hamlin, the son of Luke and Lee Hamlin. Luke Hamlin was a Logging Superintendent in the camps. One of the videos shows scenes from Camp 4 and there are at least two pics from Camp 5, one with my great aunt Tress' white picket fence.
Story: My Dad ran a trap line in the spring up the North Road after they moved out of the "roadless area" and closed it off. He told me the only building left from Camp 5 was the Blacksmith's shop. It was really cold so he sought shelter in the small building nd made a fire on a piece of sheet metal. He let the fire burn down an while he was out checking his traps the coal dust from the forge caught fire and burned down the small building and all his supplies with it :(

Another story: There is an old car body just north of the Tomahawk Road on road 387 heading toward Bald Eagle Lake. There was a logging camp there called Smithville, after the several members of the Smith family who lived there. Dad told me the car belonged to two brothers that came home from the service and were logging there and both drowned while fishing in Bald Eagle Lake.

Lots of other random stories and legends from the area I find endlessly fascinating.
andym
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11/07/2018 04:39AM
Fascinating stuff. A while ago people were discussing possible old portage’s from Kawishiwi Lake to Perent. I looked on google maps and used the time function to look at older imagery. I was probably seeing some of those roads on some of the older images. Not sure how much there is for this area, but the USGS has online access to not only satellite imagery but also aerial photos that can be much higher resolution and older todo maps. Poke around at USGS.gov and you might find some more older stuff.

Just a random coincidence, but Jim is 4 years older than me and so we might have been at MIT at the same time when I was an undergrad. I was there from 1977-1981.
ellahallely
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11/07/2018 02:50PM
Jackpine Thanks for sharing your memories! I know that area better then most, however not like you know it. I was born in 1960 so many of your memories are a little before my time. I started spending time in that area around 1970. You could still snowmobile in the b dub then. The old logging roads were our winter routes. I remember seeing the car you mentioned south of Bald Eagle. The winter route from Ely to Isabella and the Shore went through there. Omaday, Bogberry, and August Lakes area.

Did any of the camps have generators? Where do you get your water in the winter? Did you go the town (Isabella) or any of the resorts like Evergreen lodge or the Knotted Pine?

My Grand Father was superintendent of schools in Ely when you were born in Winton. Winton was a happening town. With schools and a hospital like you mentioned.


If your in the area sometime try to get in touch with me. Maybe I could pick you up in my float plane and we could fly over the old camps. No promises but if there was a time that worked for both of us it would be fun .


JIM P.
Harv
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11/07/2018 08:07PM
This is a great thread! Love reading about how Ely and the surrounding area was before the BWCA, etc.
Ellahall - can I can the name of your grandfather who was Superintendent of Ely schools?
JackpineJim
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11/07/2018 08:22PM
andym: "Fascinating stuff. A while ago people were discussing possible old portage’s from Kawishiwi Lake to Perent. I looked on google maps and used the time function to look at older imagery. I was probably seeing some of those roads on some of the older images. Not sure how much there is for this area, but the USGS has online access to not only satellite imagery but also aerial photos that can be much higher resolution and older todo maps. Poke around at USGS.gov and you might find some more older stuff.

Just a random coincidence, but Jim is 4 years older than me and so we might have been at MIT at the same time when I was an undergrad. I was there from 1977-1981."


Andym, I had a 10 year hiatus of gallivanting before going off to college so was at MIT from '87 - '92. Course 5 Ph.D.
JackpineJim
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11/07/2018 08:26PM
ellahallely: "Jackpine Thanks for sharing your memories! I know that area better then most, however not like you know it. I was born in 1960 so many of your memories are a little before my time. I started spending time in that area around 1970. You could still snowmobile in the b dub then. The old logging roads were our winter routes. I remember seeing the car you mentioned south of Bald Eagle. The winter route from Ely to Isabella and the Shore went through there. Omaday, Bogberry, and August Lakes area.


Did any of the camps have generators? Where do you get your water in the winter? Did you go the town (Isabella) or any of the resorts like Evergreen lodge or the Knotted Pine?


My Grand Father was superintendent of schools in Ely when you were born in Winton. Winton was a happening town. With schools and a hospital like you mentioned.



If your in the area sometime try to get in touch with me. Maybe I could pick you up in my float plane and we could fly over the old camps. No promises but if there was a time that worked for both of us it would be fun .
JIM P."


Jim P, at Camp 6 the water came directly out of the stream running out of the 'Trout Pond'. I vividly remember the pipe sticking in the stream with only a coarse screen on the end. In the summer someone would wrap a piece of t-shirt on it to add some extra 'purification'. In the winter my dad dipped directly from the pond to fill our two milk cans with water. My Dad had a generator in a shack that started up when you flipped the light switch in our shack. I can still remember the put-put sound of it starting up in the morning. Later, Camp 6 had a generator that supplied the many shacks of the camp. I was just there at the end of October and you can easily find the concrete footings or pedestals the generator building was mounted on. Socializing was often done at the Happy Wanderer bar on highway 1.
I'd love to take you up on that offer of the float plane ride next summer. I'll dig up the maps Dad marked up for me.



Moosepatrol
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11/07/2018 09:39PM
I enjoyed the videos on the facebook page.
ellahallely
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11/08/2018 06:54AM
Harv: "This is a great thread! Love reading about how Ely and the surrounding area was before the BWCA, etc.
Ellahall - can I can the name of your grandfather who was Superintendent of Ely schools?
"



My Grandfathers name was Willard Murphy. My Mother and Aunt where also going to school in Ely at that time.
andym
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11/08/2018 07:34AM
JackpineJim: "andym: "
Just a random coincidence, but Jim is 4 years older than me and so we might have been at MIT at the same time when I was an undergrad. I was there from 1977-1981."



Andym, I had a 10 year hiatus of gallivanting before going off to college so was at MIT from '87 - '92. Course 5 Ph.D."


I see. I was course 12 but I had to look up 5 so I’ll make it easy and say geology. By your years I was done with my Ph.D. and working at the USGS in Menlo Park. But those years gallivanting sound good. Its a lot easier to do that before school than afterwards.

I am really enjoying the info you are providing. It’s helping me visualize what the logging days were like better than some of the books we have.
DrBobDerrig
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11/08/2018 08:18AM
Neat thread guys... thanks for sharing this...

dr bob
Northwoodsman
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11/08/2018 08:44AM
Great thread. I have enjoyed following along. I found the Facebook page a good resource. I found myself spending a couple of hours looking at aerial photos, Google Maps and Google Earth trying to find evidence of the camps and roads.
JackpineJim
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11/08/2018 09:34PM
EL, We've walked some of the same paths for sure. The East Road was one of my favorite bird hunting haunts before the burn. What is your connection to this area? Are you a member of this site that just posted as "EL Guest Paddler"?

By the way, while bird hunting off the Tomahawk road the last week of October I happened to chat with a fellow from Virginia, MN who mentioned walking the North Road, and other old roads in the area. Was that you by chance?
Pinetree
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11/09/2018 07:38PM
JackpineJim: "EL, We've walked some of the same paths for sure. The East Road was one of my favorite bird hunting haunts before the burn. What is your connection to this area? Are you a member of this site that just posted as "EL Guest Paddler"?

By the way, while bird hunting off the Tomahawk road the last week of October I happened to chat with a fellow from Virginia, MN who mentioned walking the North Road, and other old roads in the area. Was that you by chance?"


Every year we walked the old logging roads on the Pow Wow-Arrow lake and Parent river and north of Ferne lake also. Often we ran onto a individual from Virginia whom once worked with the forest service and he would start a half hour before daylight and hike up the POW Wow trail grouse hunting. He started early to get ahead of other hunters in the 1980's and 90's. That was grouse heaven.
I had a favorite road just before the Island river on thenorth side I walked for grouse. It was like 4 miles long and ended just across the Mitiwan creek at a old logging shack with the wood stove still in it.
JackpineJim
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11/09/2018 08:49PM
Pinetree: "JackpineJim: "EL, We've walked some of the same paths for sure. The East Road was one of my favorite bird hunting haunts before the burn. What is your connection to this area? Are you a member of this site that just posted as "EL Guest Paddler"?


By the way, while bird hunting off the Tomahawk road the last week of October I happened to chat with a fellow from Virginia, MN who mentioned walking the North Road, and other old roads in the area. Was that you by chance?"



Every year we walked the old logging roads on the Pow Wow-Arrow lake and Parent river and north of Ferne lake also. Often we ran onto a individual from Virginia whom once worked with the forest service and he would start a half hour before daylight and hike up the POW Wow trail grouse hunting. He started early to get ahead of other hunters in the 1980's and 90's. That was grouse heaven.
I had a favorite road just before the Island river on thenorth side I walked for grouse. It was like 4 miles long and ended just across the Mitiwan creek at a old logging shack with the wood stove still in it."

Pinetree, I've never walked that road nor did I know it was there. I can see it on the satellite map so might have to poke around a bit next time I'm in the area. Some of these roads are getting pretty difficult to walk with all the growth.
Pinetree
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11/09/2018 09:29PM
JackpineJim: "Pinetree: "JackpineJim: "EL, We've walked some of the same paths for sure. The East Road was one of my favorite bird hunting haunts before the burn. What is your connection to this area? Are you a member of this site that just posted as "EL Guest Paddler"?



By the way, while bird hunting off the Tomahawk road the last week of October I happened to chat with a fellow from Virginia, MN who mentioned walking the North Road, and other old roads in the area. Was that you by chance?"




Every year we walked the old logging roads on the Pow Wow-Arrow lake and Parent river and north of Ferne lake also. Often we ran onto a individual from Virginia whom once worked with the forest service and he would start a half hour before daylight and hike up the POW Wow trail grouse hunting. He started early to get ahead of other hunters in the 1980's and 90's. That was grouse heaven.
I had a favorite road just before the Island river on thenorth side I walked for grouse. It was like 4 miles long and ended just across the Mitiwan creek at a old logging shack with the wood stove still in it."

Pinetree, I've never walked that road nor did I know it was there. I can see it on the satellite map so might have to poke around a bit next time I'm in the area. Some of these roads are getting pretty difficult to walk with all the growth.
"


That road just before the river had I believe class 5 gravel on it. It was a major logging road.
The years just before the big fire the forest was taking over the road pretty much and I see now it is burnt over and lot of downfalls. Yes On old aerial photos you should see the open field at the end of the road where the shack was. I also took old roads that came out on the little Isabella river like a 0.5 miles up from the parent river I believe those were satelite(sp) roads from the Island river road.
The Island river road also had a spur that went south toward bog lake but stopped just short. Lot of red pine plantations back there.
I have paddled up the Mitawan creek from Island river and intersected the old road where the bridge crossed the creek but it was removed.
I would love to see photo's from the logging city by Isabella lake. I don't think I ever have seen any?

Pinetree
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11/09/2018 10:39PM
JackpineJim
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11/10/2018 08:36AM
Pinetree:"That road just before the river had I believe class 5 gravel on it. It was a major logging road.
The years just before the big fire the forest was taking over the road pretty much and I see now it is burnt over and lot of downfalls. Yes On old aerial photos you should see the open field at the end of the road where the shack was. I also took old roads that came out on the little Isabella river like a 0.5 miles up from the parent river I believe those were satelite(sp) roads from the Island river road.
The Island river road also had a spur that went south toward bog lake but stopped just short. Lot of red pine plantations back there.
I have paddled up the Mitawan creek from Island river and intersected the old road where the bridge crossed the creek but it was removed.
I would love to see photo's from the logging city by Isabella lake. I don't think I ever have seen any?"


Pinetree, here are a couple photos of Forest Center. The store and Post office building with gas pumps was up on the hill overlooking the wood yard and railroad tracks where the BWCA Entry parking lot is now.
The small brown shacks on mid right in the second photo is where my Uncle Ted and Aunt Tress lived. This is across the road to the south of the BWCA parking lot. Easy to locate and still looks much as it did.
The Village was along the stub road south of wood yard, which was in the clearing at very top of that photo. You can see the old school house (round roof) in the village photo. It is now an open gravel pit. You can find the concrete footings of the new school house, which was built later just to south of old one if you look. You can also find some evidence of the houses along both sides of the road if you kick around in the burned down trees from Pagami fire. Frank and Sylvia Lundberg and the Housey family lived in a couple of the houses on the left side of that road as I recall.

Moosepatrol
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11/10/2018 10:07AM
A link about Forest Center.|

The link is from Ely Echo archives page, it is best viewed in full screen. There is also a search function, although not the best search engine. Also try Sawbill landing or Winton, etc ….. if looking for other logging info.
JackpineJim
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11/10/2018 11:36AM
Moosepatrol: " A link about Forest Center.|


The link is from Ely Echo archives page, it is best viewed in full screen. There is also a search function, although not the best search engine. Also try Sawbill landing or Winton,
etc ….. if looking for other logging info."

Thanks for posting that Moosepatrol, I went to first grade in that school. One memory is of a big hornets nest someone brought in and it was hanging on display in the window.
Zwater
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11/10/2018 12:36PM
Jackpine,
This is very neat to read!! Have any more stories?
LindenTree3
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11/10/2018 02:46PM
Forest Center was in my division during the Pagami Fire.
I found this phone while kicking around in the ashes during the fire, on the south side of the road and BW parking lot.

Ps, if you can get a tour of the Isabella Work Center they have alot of pics and memorabilia of Forest Center. It's in their display case where they used to issue permits

Pinetree
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11/10/2018 07:59PM
JackpineJim: " Pinetree:"That road just before the river had I believe class 5 gravel on it. It was a major logging road.
The years just before the big fire the forest was taking over the road pretty much and I see now it is burnt over and lot of downfalls. Yes On old aerial photos you should see the open field at the end of the road where the shack was. I also took old roads that came out on the little Isabella river like a 0.5 miles up from the parent river I believe those were satelite(sp) roads from the Island river road.
The Island river road also had a spur that went south toward bog lake but stopped just short. Lot of red pine plantations back there.
I have paddled up the Mitawan creek from Island river and intersected the old road where the bridge crossed the creek but it was removed.
I would love to see photo's from the logging city by Isabella lake. I don't think I ever have seen any?"



Pinetree, here are a couple photos of Forest Center. The store and Post office building with gas pumps was up on the hill overlooking the wood yard and railroad tracks where the BWCA Entry parking lot is now.
The small brown shacks on mid right in the second photo is where my Uncle Ted and Aunt Tress lived. This is across the road to the south of the BWCA parking lot. Easy to locate and still looks much as it did.
The Village was along the stub road south of wood yard, which was in the clearing at very top of that photo. You can see the old school house (round roof) in the village photo. It is now an open gravel pit. You can find the concrete footings of the new school house, which was built later just to south of old one if you look. You can also find some evidence of the houses along both sides of the road if you kick around in the burned down trees from Pagami fire. Frank and Sylvia Lundberg and the Housey family lived in a couple of the houses on the left side of that road as I recall.


"


Thanks,quite a town. Its quite the lumber town,too bad someone didn't do a book on the town. A lot of peoples life was spent there.
Pinetree
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11/10/2018 08:02PM
LindenTree3: "Forest Center was in my division during the Pagami Fire.
I found this phone while kicking around in the ashes during the fire, on the south side of the road and BW parking lot.


Ps, if you can get a tour of the Isabella Work Center they have alot of pics and memorabilia of Forest Center. It's in their display case where they used to issue permits


"


The day of the fire expansion I came out from Island river to the Little Isabella parking lot that day and forest service already had yellow ribbon across the access. Drove down to Island river bridge and Isabella parking lot and you could see all hell was breaking out and Forest service trying to get everyone out. Ashes were flying everywhere. I knew it was time for me to get out of the way so I left.
I remember the day before the big cloud that looked like a atomic bomb went off but it died down some that evening. Hindsight they should of attacked with everything they got instead of waiting one more day and it flared up.
Pinetree
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11/10/2018 08:08PM
Keep the photos and stories of the Forest center up. I wonder when the Tomohawk trail was created itself?
Pinetree
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11/10/2018 08:08PM
Keep the photos and stories of the Forest center up. I wonder when the Tomohawk trail was created itself?
ellahallely
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11/10/2018 09:23PM
This photo of the Pagami was taken from county road 7 at Crooked Lake Resort, by the Trestle Inn. Shortly after this picture was taken the wind switched direction by almost 180 degrees. The closest the fire came to Crooked Lake Resort was 11 miles as the crow flies.
Pinetree
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11/10/2018 09:36PM
ellahallely: " This photo of the Pagami was taken from county road 7 at Crooked Lake Resort, by the Trestle Inn. Shortly after this picture was taken the wind switch direction by almost 180 degrees. The closest the fire came to Crooked Lake Resort was 11 miles as the crow flies. "

I probably was one of the closest person on the east side when that formed and I didn't have a camera,as I paddled out with temperature at 10 am in the 80's there was a big bull moose cooling off in little Isabella river with a cow also 20 yards in front of me. No camera. When I got home I bought a new digital compact camera.
JackpineJim
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11/10/2018 10:40PM
Northwoodsman: "Great thread. I have enjoyed following along. I found the Facebook page a good resource. I found myself spending a couple of hours looking at aerial photos, Google Maps and Google Earth trying to find evidence of the camps and roads. "

Northwoodsman, After reading your post About aerial photos I surfed around and found this site MNDNR Landview You can toggle between different years' IR and visible photos and a USGS map. Easy to spend a couple hours poking around looking at the old roads.
Jim
Northwoodsman
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11/10/2018 11:45PM
Jackpine,

I think you hit the mother lode with that website. That's incredible to be able to toggle back & forth between different years and different layers. Thanks for the link. It's funny how when I was back in high school and college I hated history, and now I'm hooked on it. Of course I never has a class on BWCA and surrounding area history, nor I had ever been to the area at that time. But then again I was born in 1964 so when I was in school this era wasn't really "history" yet. That statement just made me feel much older. It had to be an extremely tough and dangerous job but I'd give up my office job in a heartbeat to trade places with them. I think what amazes me the most is that I have paddled and traveled this area and had no idea the former life that it once had. I want to go back and explore and dream.
jhb8426
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11/11/2018 12:22AM
Northwoodsman: "...had no idea the former life that it once had."

Having lived here all my life with the exception of a couple of short interruptions, the logging and mining history of the region is familiar to me, but I always enjoy hearing first hand stories of those times.
11/11/2018 09:51AM
I have enjoyed reading this thread!
ellahallely
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11/11/2018 11:35AM
Jackpine Jim Where was camp 6? I see you said by Stoney River. Was it near the Happy Wanderer? I spent a little time at the Wanderer back when they sold gas and beer. Maybe 30 years ago. The Wanderer is for sale.
JackpineJim
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11/11/2018 12:10PM
ellahallely: "Jackpine Jim Where was camp 6? I see you said by Stoney River. Was it near the Happy Wanderer? I spent a little time at the Wanderer back when they sold gas and beer. Maybe 30 years ago. The Wanderer is for sale. "

Camp 6 was in the red circle on this map image. Just a grown over gravel pit now. Some artifacts if you kick around a bit.
JackpineJim
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11/11/2018 12:18PM
JackpineJim: "ellahallely: "Jackpine Jim Where was camp 6? I see you said by Stoney River. Was it near the Happy Wanderer? I spent a little time at the Wanderer back when they sold gas and beer. Maybe 30 years ago. The Wanderer is for sale. "


In the red circle on this map image. Just a grown over gravel pit now. Some artifacts if you kick around a bit.
"


Camp 2 was here (red circle) near Highway 1 Tomahawk Road intersection.
JackpineJim
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11/12/2018 07:40PM
Moosepatrol: " A link about Forest Center.|


The link is from Ely Echo archives page, it is best viewed in full screen. There is also a search function, although not the best search engine. Also try Sawbill landing or Winton, etc ….. if looking for other logging info."

My Mom kept a magazine from 1963 with a couple of good articles about Forest Center.
You'll have to expand the photos to read the articles.




The horse was named Colonel - best horse ever!, I was told.




LindenTree3
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11/13/2018 02:54PM
JackpineJim: "Moosepatrol: " A link about Forest Center.|



The link is from Ely Echo archives page, it is best viewed in full screen. There is also a search function, although not the best search engine. Also try Sawbill landing or Winton, etc ….. if looking for other logging info."

My Mom kept a magazine from 1963 with a couple of good articles about Forest Center.
You'll have to expand the photos to read the articles.





The horse was named Colonel - best horse ever!, I was told.





"


I worked with Oliver Thums (mentioned in the article) in the early 2,000's.
I ran the fire engine out of the USFS Isabella Work Station, Ollie was a SCEP employee.
Senior Citizen Employment Program. I also worked with a few other past people who lived at Forest Center.

I believe the building housing the current Stoney River Cafe in Isabella was moved from Sawbill Landing. A community similar to Forest Center.
ellahallely
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11/13/2018 05:38PM
The Great Outdoors: "Tomahawk Timber Co. had their office in Ely, and was located upstairs of Frank's Variety next to the State Theater.

You may want to contact the Trygg Land Office, as they had maps that show logging camps and several Indian Villages in the entire area. I also think they have a book with the info.

There are still some old loggers that worked in those camps, and I know one that was born in a camp next to Insula Lake.

All the Camps had numbers for names, and the history is very interesting."


The Trygg maps are great. The ones I have are before logging or even before roads or towns. Maybe they date to around 1850-1880S. They do show Indian Villages and Indian sugar camps. They also show cabins that settlers built. Many of the lakes had different names.

J. William Trygg (Bill Sr.) was born September 17, 1905, at Cook Minnesota. He became a professional forester and worked for the United States Forest Service (USFS) from 1926 until 1954. He was in charge of Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) camps in the Ely, Minnesota, area and, at the time of his retirement from the USFS, was a district forest ranger. In addition to his expertise in forestry he had experience with Indian claims throughout the Great Lakes region.
After leaving the Forest Service Trygg worked as a land use consultant and as an appraiser of natural resources. Through an intense interest in the history of the area he developed a system he used to make historical appraisals on behalf of various Indian tribes in the Midwest, appraisals for Indian lands already ceded to the United States. With his son he owned the Trygg Land Office, a real estate agency located at Ely. Trygg was elected to the Minnesota House of Representatives in 1966 from District 62 (St. Louis County) and served one term.
Trygg died in Washington, D.C. on April 11, 1971, where he was testifying on Indian land claims. He is buried in the Ely Cemetery.

You can buy the maps online for $8 or read more on the history of the Trygg family at
at this link.

If you like old maps of the area these are a must have.
Pinetree
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11/13/2018 06:18PM
Lot of great info-keep it coming. I heard there was a saloon back at the Forest center also,I bet they did one awesome business with the loggers back there. I wonder what kind of sewer system and water setup they had?
JackpineJim
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11/13/2018 09:40PM
Pinetree: "Lot of great info-keep it coming. I heard there was a saloon back at the Forest center also,I bet they did one awesome business with the loggers back there. I wonder what kind of sewer system and water setup they had?"

Pinetree, I don't recall there being a tavern in Forest Center. No centralized sewer and water system either. I do recall the 'new' school had running water and, I presume, a septic system, since it had modern bathrooms. I don't know how many of the other houses our buildings were so equipped, the ones my relatives lived in did not. Camp 6 had a six-seater outhouse and many of the families had their own outhouses. Chamber pots were the rule.
JackpineJim
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11/13/2018 09:58PM
ellahallely: "The Great Outdoors: "Tomahawk Timber Co. had their office in Ely, and was located upstairs of Frank's Variety next to the State Theater.


You may want to contact the Trygg Land Office, as they had maps that show logging camps and several Indian Villages in the entire area. I also think they have a book with the info.


There are still some old loggers that worked in those camps, and I know one that was born in a camp next to Insula Lake.


All the Camps had numbers for names, and the history is very interesting."



The Trygg maps are great. The ones I have are before logging or even before roads or towns. Maybe they date to around 1850-1880S. They do show Indian Villages and Indian sugar camps. They also show cabins that settlers built. Many of the lakes had different names.


J. William Trygg (Bill Sr.) was born September 17, 1905, at Cook Minnesota. He became a professional forester and worked for the United States Forest Service (USFS) from 1926 until 1954. He was in charge of Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) camps in the Ely, Minnesota, area and, at the time of his retirement from the USFS, was a district forest ranger. In addition to his expertise in forestry he had experience with Indian claims throughout the Great Lakes region.
After leaving the Forest Service Trygg worked as a land use consultant and as an appraiser of natural resources. Through an intense interest in the history of the area he developed a system he used to make historical appraisals on behalf of various Indian tribes in the Midwest, appraisals for Indian lands already ceded to the United States. With his son he owned the Trygg Land Office, a real estate agency located at Ely. Trygg was elected to the Minnesota House of Representatives in 1966 from District 62 (St. Louis County) and served one term.
Trygg died in Washington, D.C. on April 11, 1971, where he was testifying on Indian land claims. He is buried in the Ely Cemetery.


You can buy the maps online for $8 or read more on the history of the Trygg family at
at this link.

If you like old maps of the area these are a must have.
"


It is interesting you mention the maps with the locations of Indian villages. My Dad told me of the logging camp called Indian Village Camp he lived in in 1943, located in the red circle in this map. He didn't know why it was called Indian Village.
Pinetree
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11/13/2018 10:22PM
JackpineJim: "Pinetree: "Lot of great info-keep it coming. I heard there was a saloon back at the Forest center also,I bet they did one awesome business with the loggers back there. I wonder what kind of sewer system and water setup they had?"


Pinetree, I don't recall there being a tavern in Forest Center. No centralized sewer and water system either. I do recall the 'new' school had running water and, I presume, a septic system, since it had modern bathrooms. I don't know how many of the other houses our buildings were so equipped, the ones my relatives lived in did not. Camp 6 had a six-seater outhouse and many of the families had their own outhouses. Chamber pots were the rule."


I was talking with my brother today,he mentioned he thought there was one tavern,maybe he is wrong? i will have to ask him again. It really wasn't that long ago and thee should be a fair number of survivors still? Maybe not?
Its also amazing how fast this town was built and how fast it disappeared. I never thought of this before but I believe where the town was is now federal land and wonder what ownership status was than.
A six seater-that is something else.
ellahallely
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11/14/2018 08:26AM
Jackpine Jim says at camp 6 they got their water from the "trout pond". Sorry Jackpine but in my world that is a swamp. I am surprised no one got beaver fever.


I have been by camp 6 on the old Tomahawk road more then 100 times and never knew it was a logging camp. Been by camp 2 more then 200 times and never even knew it was there Thanks for the info.


JIM P.
Pinetree
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11/14/2018 07:12PM
Asked my brother again and he thought he was tld there was a saloon at the Forest center,along with a church and school.
Pinetree
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11/14/2018 07:12PM
JackpineJim
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11/14/2018 08:52PM
Pinetree: "Asked my brother again and he thought he was tld there was a saloon at the Forest center,along with a church and school."

I just talked to my Mom about it and she said there was a small restaurant but no saloon. Folks went to Happy Wanderer or Chub Lake Resort on Highway 1.
JackpineJim
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11/14/2018 08:56PM
ellahallely: "Jackpine Jim says at camp 6 they got their water from the "trout pond". Sorry Jackpine but in my world that is a swamp. I am surprised no one got beaver fever.



I have been by camp 6 on the old Tomahawk road more then 100 times and never knew it was a logging camp. Been by camp 2 more then 200 times and never even knew it was there Thanks for the info.



JIM P."


Yes, The Pond was no more than a small swamp hole but the water was crystal clear. Still,
I would never drink the water untreated or unfiltered today. But, people did drink unpurified water for millennia, and I'd wager a good portion of the world's population do so today.

JackpineJim
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11/15/2018 11:51PM
Tomahawk: " I was attempting to get more info on Tomahawk Timber Co. and their Camp 4 & Camp 5 north of Isabella Lake. I got onto this sight and read some of Jackpine Jim's comments on the Maniwaki Lake camp. I had been there back in the late 1960s and also in the early 1970s and would like to find out more. Is Jackpine Jim still out there somewhere?"

I'm glad you started this thread Tomahawk. It prompted me to dig around for some maps and listen to some recordings of oral history my Dad left me. Here is a map showing many of the roads in the area. I know this map is incomplete because there was a logging camp on the portage trail between Baskatong and Square Lake with a road to it. 'I'm having trouble uploading the map got it



Tomahawk
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11/21/2018 07:58AM
Jackpine Jim,
I hope you're still around and patient. I've tried to respond numerous times to your great posts but have had posting issues - for some reason the site wouldn't accept my posts. If this post works there will be more coming in the next days.
Tomahawk
Tomahawk
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11/21/2018 04:52PM
Jackpine Jim,
When last we communicated, you asked if that was me that you spoke to on the Tomahawk Road this past season. No, it wasn't but I wish that it was. When you said the guy was from Virginia I asked a former hunting partner who lives there and he said it wasn't him either. So, there's someone else out there a lot like us.
There's a story I've heard for years now about a B-17G Flying Fortress that crash landed south of the Tomahawk Road around 1946 in the area of Inga Creek. I was wondering if your dad mentioned anything about that? I've heard bits & pieces of this story...........
Tomahawk
Pinetree
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11/21/2018 06:33PM
Tomahawk: "Jackpine Jim,
When last we communicated, you asked if that was me that you spoke to on the Tomahawk Road this past season. No, it wasn't but I wish that it was. When you said the guy was from Virginia I asked a former hunting partner who lives there and he said it wasn't him either. So, there's someone else out there a lot like us.
There's a story I've heard for years now about a B-17G Flying Fortress that crash landed south of the Tomahawk Road around 1946 in the area of Inga Creek. I was wondering if your dad mentioned anything about that? I've heard bits & pieces of this story...........
Tomahawk"


Like I mentioned earlier,in the late 80's and 90's we Grouse hunted down the Tomahawk road on the Pow Wow trails and every weekend we ran into somebody from Virginia whom worked as a Forester back than and I believe his Dad did also. He was usually there Saturday,but not Sunday. very nice to talk to also.
ellahallely
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11/22/2018 10:58AM


Trygg map of area. I have others of NE Minnesota I can upload if anyone wants to see them.
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 11:15AM
Before the trails-roads grew over I hiked into like the Arrow lakes and fished. Talk about Moose heaven when their was moose still around. Seen many a awesome huge bulls.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 11:26AM
Just curious what did you fish for? Northerns? I was surprised there would be anything worth fishing for in there until Juel Foster of Happy Wander told me they fished that for big northerns. Only caught small northerns, he confessed.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 11:31AM
I have this same series of maps, very interesting to look at. The most interesting thing of all is the near constant mention of iron deposits. I've been all through that country since back in the 1970s and in some areas you can not trust a compass. The needle keeps turning and won't stop from all the iron in the ground.
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 11:35AM
Tomahawk: " Just curious what did you fish for? Northerns? I was surprised there would be anything worth fishing for in there until Juel Foster of Happy Wander told me they fished that for big northerns. Only caught small northerns, he confessed."

Northern pike,one of the arrow lakes was known for big northerns. Myself I just caught little ones,but just fished it after grouse hunting my way in.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 11:46AM
Nothing big huh? Juel told me when they walked in there that was the first and last time he'd do that. He wasn't a big hiker at all and said he was sore for a month after that.
Oh, the birds were thick back in the day on that road. I'd hunt that one and also the one that went into Hudson Lake. Almost as many moose as grouse back in the 70s. I'd average 3-4 moose a trip and as many as 6. A lot of good bulls but one in particular on the Hudson Road. I'd see his tracks, the size of a Clydesdale horse. Enormous. Then he'd have the road all torn up with bigger trees rubbed, girdled and smaller ones torn right out of the ground. He was an ornery cuss when he went into rut. I saw him only once, unbelievable! Just a guess but he had to go about 1200 lbs. and had a rack from at least 5', maybe even more, from antler tip to antler tip. I saw his tracks every year for about 5 yrs. until they were no more. I always wondered, wolves or just old age?
lindentree
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11/22/2018 11:50AM
Tomahawk: "I have this same series of maps, very interesting to look at. The most interesting thing of all is the near constant mention of iron deposits. I've been all through that country since back in the 1970s and in some areas you can not trust a compass. The needle keeps turning and won't stop from all the iron in the ground."

Very true about the compass needle, I could run a 1/4 mile line and be within 5 feet of a survey stake, turn the corner go a couple hundred feet and nothing. I could not get an accurate reading to save my life.

Had to go back and use a Tremble GPS to finish painting the timber sale lines, around Isabella.
Ellahallely that's a cool map.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 12:03PM
Jackpine,
You really have my interest when you mentioned Camp 5. I have been there a number of time via canoe from South Hope to Maniwaki but never realized there was a camp there. Also walked in there off the North Road. I've looked on the satellite map and you say it was on the southwest part of Maniwaki lake. Was it near the road that came in from the North Road, the road that went up into Fishdance Lake or was it more over toward the creek that went along the portage in the direction to South Hope? Can you circle it on a map?
Thanks much, I know a guy who lived there when the camp was there but he was only 5 at the time and wasn't sure where it was.
Many thanks!!
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 12:36PM
Tomahawk: " Nothing big huh? Juel told me when they walked in there that was the first and last time he'd do that. He wasn't a big hiker at all and said he was sore for a month after that.
Oh, the birds were thick back in the day on that road. I'd hunt that one and also the one that went into Hudson Lake. Almost as many moose as grouse back in the 70s. I'd average 3-4 moose a trip and as many as 6. A lot of good bulls but one in particular on the Hudson Road. I'd see his tracks, the size of a Clydesdale horse. Enormous. Then he'd have the road all torn up with bigger trees rubbed, girdled and smaller ones torn right out of the ground. He was an ornery cuss when he went into rut. I saw him only once, unbelievable! Just a guess but he had to go about 1200 lbs. and had a rack from at least 5', maybe even more, from antler tip to antler tip. I saw his tracks every year for about 5 yrs. until they were no more. I always wondered, wolves or just old age?"


I loved the Hudson road also,when I found it by than it kind of petered out just past the creek getting grown over. Not sure how much further you could go. Also tried once coming in from Hudson lake up the creek,but can't remember why but we didn't quite get all the way in.
Instead of turning toward the Hudson road you go to you hit the beaver dam and the big meadows that was a favorite moose spot.

Lot of good memories there.
Sometimes we would pack in and camp at the designated camp site on Pose and hunt from there.
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 12:43PM
Tomahawk: "Jackpine,
You really have my interest when you mentioned Camp 5. I have been there a number of time via canoe from South Hope to Maniwaki but never realized there was a camp there. Also walked in there off the North Road. I've looked on the satellite map and you say it was on the southwest part of Maniwaki lake. Was it near the road that came in from the North Road, the road that went up into Fishdance Lake or was it more over toward the creek that went along the portage in the direction to South Hope? Can you circle it on a map?
Thanks much, I know a guy who lived there when the camp was there but he was only 5 at the time and wasn't sure where it was.
Many thanks!!"

.
The MN DNR like around 1969 stocked Maniwaki with muskie the shoepack strain. Tried fishing it from canoe coming up from South Hope around 1990 and all we caught was big perch. Much of it was pretty shallow. Did cross the old road north of Maniwaki
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 01:47PM
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 01:49PM

In the photo that I tried to send here is of the large area that was dug up by that huge bull moose I had seen. If you look closely at the deepest area you can see my 2 3/4" 12 ga. shotgun shell to give an idea how deep it was. It was at least 12"-14" deep, maybe deeper and nearly 4' across. I had seen many of these scrapes by moose in other areas before but nothing this large. He must've also peed in it because it was wet toward the center of the dug out and the entire area smelled like a horse barn. The urine smell was incredibly strong, I must've just missed him.
The Hudson Road went in quite aways and ended in a clearcut where they must've had a landing at one time. We followed it that far many times on hunting trips back in the 70s-80s. Gradually it grew over but someone was cutting it to keep it open for many years. But you pretty much had to know the trail well in order to follow it. This was not far from the creek that came in from Hudson Lake. I'm thinking that cutover must've been about 400'-500' from that creek where the reservation boundary was.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 02:03PM
This photo is of my hunting partner carrying out a nice antler he had found very near to Arrow Lake. For years we had it hidden, tied to a tree and trying to figure a way to carry it out. It was very heavy and finally we strapped it to a pack frame and got it out. It sits in his basement with a painted scene on it to this day.
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 03:12PM
Tomahawk: "
In the photo that I tried to send here is of the large area that was dug up by that huge bull moose I had seen. If you look closely at the deepest area you can see my 2 3/4" 12 ga. shotgun shell to give an idea how deep it was. It was at least 12"-14" deep, maybe deeper and nearly 4' across. I had seen many of these scrapes by moose in other areas before but nothing this large. He must've also peed in it because it was wet toward the center of the dug out and the entire area smelled like a horse barn. The urine smell was incredibly strong, I must've just missed him.
The Hudson Road went in quite aways and ended in a clearcut where they must've had a landing at one time. We followed it that far many times on hunting trips back in the 70s-80s. Gradually it grew over but someone was cutting it to keep it open for many years. But you pretty much had to know the trail well in order to follow it. This was not far from the creek that came in from Hudson Lake. I'm thinking that cutover must've been about 400'-500' from that creek where the reservation boundary was."


I think the one cutting the trail to keep it open was the individual(he was one fast walker) that I mentioned from Virgina_area who hunted grouse there and worked as a USFS employee once. He always carried a machete with him and seen where he cut the trails be it toward the Parent river loop or the Pose loop area.
The Hudson loop had just a overgrown area where once they took gravel just before the creek. Good area for grouse.
Tomahawk
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11/22/2018 08:42PM
Pinetree,
Back in the late 60s, the USFS had big plans for the Maniwaki Lake area. The moose population in that area from Ferne Lake to the south to Maniwaki to the north the was the highest in the lower 48, if I remember correctly it was 15-20 moose per square mile! They were interested in developing campsites in Maniwaki Lake for moose hunters that would hunt via canoe. But for some reason that never materialized.
For those interested in posting on this subject, I can't tell you how much I appreciate sharing my experiences and hearing from yours!!
Jackpine Jim this is all your fault, we have to meet some day!
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 09:00PM
I hunted Moose in 1977 and at that time they said Ferne lake had the highest per sq. mile but
I believe it was quite a bit lower than that number. I wonder if that was the winter yard number. I remember I thought it was like 3 moose/sq mile and they mentioned a good area in Canada would be 0.75 moose per sq. mile.
You may be right now I think about it,that would be like the hey day of logging and maybe pulled the moose in from all over to that spot.
Pinetree
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11/22/2018 09:05PM
I love talking about your experiences and others in that area. It is a very upbeat and positive topic you feel good about.
ellahallely
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11/23/2018 08:47AM
Tomahawk, where do you live now.

That moose rack is as big as I have seen in Minnesota for along time!

Did anybody run into wolves back then? 40s, 50s,60s,70s?I remember the Happy Wanderer have a stuffed one. I had a few beers at the Wanderer in the day.
Pinetree
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11/23/2018 09:40AM
ellahallely: "Tomahawk, where do you live now.


That moose rack is as big as I have seen in Minnesota for along time!


Did anybody run into wolves back then? 40s, 50s,60s,70s?I remember the Happy Wanderer have a stuffed one. I had a few beers at the Wanderer in the day. "


In the 60's you seen a few,but they were much more wary. Often you seen a track in the snow come up to a human track and they would turn right around. The few survivors than became quite wary.
Tomahawk
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11/23/2018 09:45AM
Those numbers seemed high to me at the time as well but that's what I was told. It seemed to be a pretty credible source from the DNR if I recall. We saw so much sign back in the 70s-80s plus all the sightings that I sure thought it to be believable. Who knows.
Tomahawk
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11/23/2018 11:58AM
Currently living in Duluth.

In those near 50 yrs. that I've hunted in that country, my partner & I have seen many wolves. Once after we split up, he went toward Quadga and I toward Insula/Hudson, just after he crossed the small creek coming out of Fallen Arch Lake he jumped 3 wolves that had downed a moose calf. As soon as they saw him, only 15 yds. away, they scattered. One year we'd hear a large pack of them howling when we got to the Quadga Fork off the North Road. Nearly each time we got to that point early in the morning they'd cut loose. Really unnerving. One memorable day I went toward Insula and he went toward Quadga. As I walked on the North Road that pack must've been paralleling me and not far back off the road, either. Every once in awhile one would cut loose with a howl that would nearly make you fill your pants.When I got to the Insula /Hudson Fork on the North Road I turned toward Insula and where the first creek crosses on that road here came 5 or 6 wolves that got on the road about a block ahead of me. I suspected this was the same bunch that was following me. They seemed not to even pay me much attention as they ran up the road, the same direction I was going. I didn't hear anything from them until I got on the Hudson Road. I was back in about 2 miles on that road when a wolf cut loose with a bellow to my left, sounded like he was only a block off the road. Then one answered with a howl just off the road to the right of me. Enough to make you jump out of your boots when you realize that you're between them. Interesting times.
Pinetree
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11/23/2018 06:44PM
Another favorite was to canoe into Quadna set camp up than grouse hunt from there on the Pow Wow.
Tomahawk
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11/24/2018 07:36AM
Ellahallely, when you mentioned about that moose rack picture I had sent brings up another memory. I would often run into another hunter who lived in Forest Lake but had grown up in Forest Center and would drive up an old school bus. You'd see it parked at Forest Center, usually across from where the rail spurs came in, and knew he was around. Anyway, I had run into him up on the East Road one day and told him about this moose antler that my partner had hauled out. The guy then told me about one he had found. He was on the road just before Perent River, a very recent road put in by Leusteck Logging around 1971 when they were picking up contracts that hadn't been cut by Tomahawk after the '64 Wilderness Act was passed. He said he found an enormous one, so big he didn't know how to carry it out. It was way back in on this newer road and he said he went in off the road, and crawled atop a small ledge to hide it until he could figure out a way to get it out. He didn't want anyone else to find it. When I told him about the pack frame idea he thought that was a great idea and he might try that. I often wondered if he ever got it out or if it still sits atop that ledge. The way I remember him describing it to me, he said the antler was about 6"- 8" longer than his entire shotgun!
JackpineJim
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11/24/2018 09:22AM
ellahallely: "Tomahawk, where do you live now.


That moose rack is as big as I have seen in Minnesota for along time!


Did anybody run into wolves back then? 40s, 50s,60s,70s?I remember the Happy Wanderer have a stuffed one. I had a few beers at the Wanderer in the day. "

Dad carted this rack out from a bull he found frozen in the ice near Arrow Lake when he was running his trap line in 1962 or '63. He would use a bicycle to get his traps and gear
up the old roads. He tied the rack to his bicycle and pushed it down the road all the way to where his car was parked on the North Road by Forest Center. The road was already bermed off by then. He told me on some mornings when the ground was frozen solid and the snow was mostly gone he could ride the bike and made great time all the way to Bugo Lake. Often, in the afternoons, the ground would be too soft to ride the bike with his pack of traps.

Pinetree
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11/24/2018 10:14AM
JackpineJim: "ellahallely: "Tomahawk, where do you live now.



That moose rack is as big as I have seen in Minnesota for along time!



Did anybody run into wolves back then? 40s, 50s,60s,70s?I remember the Happy Wanderer have a stuffed one. I had a few beers at the Wanderer in the day. "

Dad carted this rack out from a bull he found frozen in the ice near Arrow Lake when he was running his trap line in 1962 or '63. He would use a bicycle to get his traps and gear
up the old roads. He tied the rack to his bicycle and pushed it down the road all the way to where his car was parked on the North Road by Forest Center. The road was already bermed off by then. He told me on some mornings when the ground was frozen solid and the snow was mostly gone he could ride the bike and made great time all the way to Bugo Lake. Often, in the afternoons, the ground would be too soft to ride the bike with his pack of traps.


"


Wow quite the story. Anymore trapline stories. What a trapline,never know what you would see or experience. What was his main furs.
The mid to late 60's up to 1969 when the area and all of northern Minnesota there was deer everywhere also. Era of big bucks. By 1970 numbers crashed. The deer populations were very high also until the very harsh winter of 1969 where snow was already deep during deer season.
Tomahawk
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11/24/2018 10:15AM
Jackpine, Good to hear from you again. That is a great story about your dad, he must've been an incredible fellow! That rack is.............WOW! The picture of that rack brings me back to another memory. My partner and I were on our way back on the North Road after a day of grouse hunting. He had just gotten out of the service after being stationed in Alaska. Less than a mile from Isabella River, this enormous bull came out of a lowland area on the west side of the road. He stopped on the road and gave us the ol' evil eye, turned and ran down the road toward the River. I still remember my friend saying," That's an Alaska sized moose!" I also remember us both standing there "catching flies" with our mouths wide open, dumbfounded at the size of this critter. We lost sight of him as he ran away from us but there was a road not far from the River that ran to the east and just on the north side of Isabella Lake, his tracks went down that road. That was I one of the first moose seasons, around 1973 or so. Not long after we saw where his tracks went down that road did we ran into moose hunters on horseback. We described this moose to them, told them where it went and they concluded that here was no moose this size in n. MN. We never heard a shot but within a week or so there was a picture of this very same guy we talked to with a picture of an unbelievable moose rack in the Duluth-News Tribune. Maybe someone else recalls these same antlers in that picture, I think the man's name may have been McKenzie? It was at least the size of your antlers here, possibly even larger.
Pinetree
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11/24/2018 10:44AM
Yeh my brother shot one in the first season in 1971 close to that area, but along the Island river.
JackpineJim
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11/24/2018 12:05PM
Pinetree: "JackpineJim: "ellahallely: "Tomahawk, where do you live now.



That moose rack is as big as I have seen in Minnesota for along time!



Did anybody run into wolves back then? 40s, 50s,60s,70s?I remember the Happy Wanderer have a stuffed one. I had a few beers at the Wanderer in the day. "

Dad carted this rack out from a bull he found frozen in the ice near Arrow Lake when he was running his trap line in 1962 or '63. He would use a bicycle to get his traps and gear
up the old roads. He tied the rack to his bicycle and pushed it down the road all the way to where his car was parked on the North Road by Forest Center. The road was already bermed off by then. He told me on some mornings when the ground was frozen solid and the snow was mostly gone he could ride the bike and made great time all the way to Bugo Lake. Often, in the afternoons, the ground would be too soft to ride the bike with his pack of traps.



"



Wow quite the story. Anymore trapline stories. What a trapline,never know what you would see or experience. What was his main furs.
The mid to late 60's up to 1969 when the area and all of northern Minnesota there was deer everywhere also. Era of big bucks. By 1970 numbers crashed. The deer populations were very high also until the very harsh winter of 1969 where snow was already deep during deer season. "


Dad mostly trapped beaver and a few otter and mink and got an occasional red fox. This pic is a year after the moose antler picture and one of the beaver pelts is of a jet black beaver he caught in Arrow Lake. The only black furred beaver he ever caught. He got a few more dollars for that one.

Pinetree
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11/24/2018 12:20PM
You look back at trappers back than and even further back, beaver in the 60's I believe you were limited to the amount you could catch and abundance was not real high but prices were good.
Cretbo
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11/24/2018 12:33PM

Dad mostly trapped beaver and a few otter and mink and got an occasional red fox. This pic is a year after the moose antler picture and one of the beaver pelts is of a jet black beaver he caught in Arrow Lake. The only black furred beaver he ever caught. He got a few more dollars for that one.


"

are your brothers still alive? If so, where did they wind up going? Love the history of this thread!
Pinetree
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11/24/2018 01:30PM
I heard in the early 60's Hudson Bay came to Ely and actually paid by the sq. inch for beaver Limit was 10 than.
I don't think pine marten were common than and maybe even not a season?
JackpineJim
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11/24/2018 02:08PM
ellahallely: "


Trygg map of area. I have others of NE Minnesota I can upload if anyone wants to see them."

I'd love to see your other maps. I was just listening to some audio recordings I my dad left me where he mentioned an old Forest Service trail on the East side of the Arrow lakes that connected with the Hudson Road. He trapped along that. Also, I found a mention of a 1953 map of the area that might be informative.
JackpineJim
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11/24/2018 04:22PM
Cretbo: "
Dad mostly trapped beaver and a few otter and mink and got an occasional red fox. This pic is a year after the moose antler picture and one of the beaver pelts is of a jet black beaver he caught in Arrow Lake. The only black furred beaver he ever caught. He got a few more dollars for that one.



"



are your brothers still alive? If so, where did they wind up going? Love the history of this thread!"

Both still kicking :) One lives near Madison and the one with the cowboy boots and hat in the moose antler pic is a physician in Oneida county, WI.
JackpineJim
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11/24/2018 11:40PM
Tomahawk: "Jackpine,
You really have my interest when you mentioned Camp 5. I have been there a number of time via canoe from South Hope to Maniwaki but never realized there was a camp there. Also walked in there off the North Road. I've looked on the satellite map and you say it was on the southwest part of Maniwaki lake. Was it near the road that came in from the North Road, the road that went up into Fishdance Lake or was it more over toward the creek that went along the portage in the direction to South Hope? Can you circle it on a map?
Thanks much, I know a guy who lived there when the camp was there but he was only 5 at the time and wasn't sure where it was.
Many thanks!!"


Tomahawk, I'm operating from memory of discussions with my Dad on where Camp 5 was located. I recall him saying it was near the creek to Maniwaki. I was thinking it was near where the road branched off to the north crossing Hope Creek but I found these two different maps (too big to upload, apparently) from 1960 that appear to show two buildings (squares) near Maniwaki Creek on the East end of Maniwaki Lake. They are in the white area just east of the 1612' Benchmark triangle in the road. There was a branch in the road just NE of the two squares ( buildings?) with one heading North toward Fishdance and the other continuing on to Camp 4 (Poly Camp). I'll ask my mother this weekend and see if she can recall the exact location of Camp 5.



Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 09:34AM
Much appreciated if you could find out more from Mom on Camp 5. I was just talking to a guy yesterday that spent a lot of time with Tomahawk Timber, lived in a shacker house near Kawasachong Lake. Lived and worked by himself, I could've listened to him all afternoon. I'm going to try to arrange to talk with him again, must be well into his late 80s but his memory is still pretty sharp.
You mentioned Bugo Lake. Anyone ever fish that? I heard once they tried to dump walleyes in there. Your dad's trap line, all the way from Bugo Lake to Forest Center on a bike? The berm you are talking about is the one that was near the bulk tanks, where the rail spurs came in? That's one incredible trip on a bike!
I've asked you before but you must've forgotten. Did your dad ever say anything about that B-17 bomber that crashed around 1946 near Inga Creek? The guy I talked to yesterday said he was into the crash site about 2 years after it happened.
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 10:21AM
JackpineJim
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11/25/2018 10:24AM
Tomahawk: " Much appreciated if you could find out more from Mom on Camp 5. I was just talking to a guy yesterday that spent a lot of time with Tomahawk Timber, lived in a shacker house near Kawasachong Lake. Lived and worked by himself, I could've listened to him all afternoon. I'm going to try to arrange to talk with him again, must be well into his late 80s but his memory is still pretty sharp.
You mentioned Bugo Lake. Anyone ever fish that? I heard once they tried to dump walleyes in there. Your dad's trap line, all the way from Bugo Lake to Forest Center on a bike? The berm you are talking about is the one that was near the bulk tanks, where the rail spurs came in? That's one incredible trip on a bike!
I've asked you before but you must've forgotten. Did your dad ever say anything about that B-17 bomber that crashed around 1946 near Inga Creek? The guy I talked to yesterday said he was into the crash site about 2 years after it happened."


Dad never mentioned fishing Bugo Lake. When we lived there the 'strip' he was cutting was near Koma and Fantail Lakes. Koma was his 'nervana'. He built a raft near where the river runs in from Poly and poled out to fish his honey hole. All of his fishing trips then focused on Koma and Malberg for the rest of his days.
In the '60s, '70s and '80s we would canoe in to Koma to fish and trap minnows in Fantail. Good moose territory - we would often just sit quietly by the shore of Fantail in the mornings waiting for a moose to show himself before checking the minnow trap. You could still see the old road from Bugo in the late 70's near Fantail.
I'd be interested to know the fellow's name. My dad would be 83 years old so he's likely a friend of his and I'd recognize his name.
Dad has a good story about that bomber crash that he told me about many times and left in an audio recording. I'm trying to convert the .wav file to text so I can share in his own words here. I know the general area and I've tried to find the crash site several times but came up empty so far - It's hard walking in those spruce swamps and things grow over in 74 years.
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 10:45AM
Those are nice films to see. Impressive operation! Thanks Pinetree!
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 10:56AM
Tomahawk: " Those are nice films to see. Impressive operation! Thanks Pinetree!"

Quality isn't the best,but lot better than nothing.
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 11:08AM
ellahallely
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11/25/2018 11:12AM
Some old fisher maps I have of the area, dated 1952. With trails or small roads before the roads were made by the people of Forest center.


Hudson road, was that the road(now powwow trail) going north and starting on the west side of Isabella Lake? There was a fire tower off that road called Arrow lookout tower. However it was closer to Pose Lake then the Arrow Lakes.


I am sure people paddle to this area Koma, Hudson, Hope etc...…. go ashore and think they might be in a spot that no man had ever stood. When in fact it was logged 50-80 years ago.
This is a map I copied from another thread on this site.
JIM P.
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 11:31AM
Malberg was a great lake for walleyes, some of the fastest fishing I've ever had including Canadian fishing but the walleyes were fairly small. We'd talk to people fishing Koma for huge northerns, they said, but I never wet a line there when the walleyes were so close by in Malberg.
The guy I talked to yesterday was Don Hoover, great guy, hard worker. He said he drove right into the crash site of that B-17 on a road the government put in there. There wasn't much left when he was there, a couple of wings and small parts was about it. He said the Air Force came in to get the 4 engines and the Norden bomb sight. That bomb sight was super secret and used for precision bombing, something the Russians never had but would've been very interested in. The engines had superchargers on them to give a boost when carrying heavy bomb loads, our allies the Brits wanted to know more about that but as far as I know we never let them in on it. I still laugh about that.
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 11:33AM
interesting,was their actually a road from lake one and than on the north side of Hudson lake also?
I just thought the Hudson road was a spur you take to the left,cross the creek going into Hudson on the south side than goes so far and peters out? I seem to be wrong maybe?
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 11:33AM
interesting,was their actually a road from lake one and than on the north side of Hudson lake also?
I just thought the Hudson road was a spur you take to the left,cross the creek going into Hudson on the south side than goes so far and peters out? I seem to be wrong maybe?
lindentree
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11/25/2018 12:00PM
I painted the boundary lines for a bunch of the Timber sales (Red Pine thinning) around Forest Center, mostly on the West side. Also that thin stringer of Red Pine that was between the parking lot and the end of the Tomahawk Rd.

This timber was second generation Red Pine planted after the logging around Forest Center.

One timber sale I remember was replanted on a lot of ledge rock less than a quarter mile west of the paarking lot. When I went back there last summer I noticed that that particular timber stand was one of the few remenants of Red Pine timber that survived the Pagami Fire around Forest Center.
(It is located just west of the Pow Wow trail entrance kiosk.)
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 12:11PM
lindentree: "I painted the boundary lines for a bunch of the Timber sales (Red Pine thinning) around Forest Center, mostly on the West side. Also that thin stringer of Red Pine that was between the parking lot and the end of the Tomahawk Rd.


This timber was second generation Red Pine planted after the logging around Forest Center.


One timber sale I remember was replanted on a lot of ledge rock less than a quarter ile west of the paarking lot. When I went back there last summer I noticed that this timber thinning had one of the few remenants of Red Pine timber that survived the Pagami Fire."


I always liked walking around on that super huge ledge rock.
Yes it is interesting at the forest center the few pine trees that survived and location. Remember going down to the bulletin board at Island river there and it literally melted and burned. One hot fire. Yes still remember being at the forest center that day of the fire and all the ashes in the air. Time to get out of the way and go home.
JackpineJim
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11/25/2018 12:22PM
ellahallely: " Some old fisher maps I have of the area, dated 1952. With trails or small roads before the roads were made by the people of Forest center.



Hudson road, was that the road(now powwow trail) going north and starting on the west side of Isabella Lake? There was a fire tower off that road called Arrow lookout tower. However it was closer to Pose Lake then the Arrow Lakes.



I am sure people paddle to this area Koma, Hudson, Hope etc...…. go ashore and think they might be in a spot that no man had ever stood. When in fact it was logged 50-80 years ago.
This is a map I copied from another thread on this site.
JIM P."


Jim P. It looks like the Pow Wow trail diverges from the Hudson Road South of Pose Lake. I think the map you posted shows the actual Hudson road, which my dad told me was still a good road in the 1950's. This map shows some of the Tomahawk Timber Co. spurs that Pinetree mentioned.

Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 12:23PM

Ellahallely, yes, the way to Hudson started on the west side of Isabella Lake, this was called the Isabella North Road because as it left Forest Center it ran in a northwardly direction. About 3 mi. up there was a road that left off the North Road to the left and went NW. This was the road that went near the Arrow Lookout. You're right again, the tower was much closer to Pose than Arrow Lakes. Go figger how they gave it the name Arrow Lookout, always wondered that myself. Anyway, About a mile off the North Road going NW on this road you came to another fork with a road to the left, going due west, this went to Pose Lake. But staying on a due North heading at this fork would take you to the Ahmoo Creek bridge crossing. This bridge was gone by the time I was there, only some timbers left to cross the river. After crossing Ahmoo, the road went due north for about 1/2 mi., then another fork. To the right (east) the road went below Insula Lake and over toward Arrow Lakes; to the left (west) the road went toward Hudson Lake. Going toward Hudson about another 3/4 mi brought you to another crossing of Ahmoo Creek and a nice, big bridge. After the bridge the road went another 1 1/2 mi. or so and ended in a clearcut where they also had a landing at one time. This was the end of Tomahawk's main haul road, from here there was a network of short winter roads before they ended as well at the very end of Tomahawk's sale boundary. This is where the creek came in from Hudson Lake to the sale area. The trail on the map that you show here is too far to the north, the Hudson Road actually went further to the south, ending in the area of Zitkala Creek. The trail you show is a fire trail and they crisscrossed much of the BW, running from fire tower to fire tower. Hope this helps.
JackpineJim
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11/25/2018 12:36PM
Tomahawk: " Malberg was a great lake for walleyes, some of the fastest fishing I've ever had including Canadian fishing but the walleyes were fairly small. We'd talk to people fishing Koma for huge northerns, they said, but I never wet a line there when the walleyes were so close by in Malberg.
The guy I talked to yesterday was Don Hoover, great guy, hard worker. He said he drove right into the crash site of that B-17 on a road the government put in there. There wasn't much left when he was there, a couple of wings and small parts was about it. He said the Air Force came in to get the 4 engines and the Norden bomb sight. That bomb sight was super secret and used for precision bombing, something the Russians never had but would've been very interested in. The engines had superchargers on them to give a boost when carrying heavy bomb loads, our allies the Brits wanted to know more about that but as far as I know we never let them in on it. I still laugh about that."


Tomahawk, I don't recall dad mentioning Don Hoover. Next time you talk to him ask him if he remembers these people: Charlie Hommerding, Ted and Tress Lundberg, Ollie Thumes, Charlie McClosky, Lloyd and Marion Taylor, Buck and Liz Lundberg, Luke Hamlin, Henry Knuth, Jim Lundberg, Emil Utecht, Alvin Housey, Max Rudolph, George Klaus, Nick Jasper, Walt Knotts...
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 12:53PM
The Hudson Road actually went further than this map shows. I have a huge map of the Halfway Ranger District and the actual boundaries of the entire Tomahawk Timber sale in the Forest Center area. The map shows the Hudson Road going to all the way to Zitkala Creek to the NW with a small network of roads going to that creek that comes from Hudson. I'd love to show you guys this map sometime.
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 12:58PM
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 01:04PM
Interesting that you saw how people think they're in a virgin wilderness with all the cutting that went on, some areas were cut 2 and 3 times. People camping at campsites in the area will wander back in the woods and find tree stumps where trees had been cut. Tomahawk cut to a reservation boundary that was about 400'-500' from existing waterways.
At times when I was grouse hunting on the Pow Wow Trail, I'd run across another hunter who had no idea of the history of the area. We'd strike up a conversation and I'd talk about the original roads in the area that made the trail system. More often than not they'd look at me with a blank stare and ask about "Roads? What roads?" "Well, how about the road you're standing on", I might say. Bewildered, I'd have to show them how far the original roadbed went out from the trail that is now covered with brsuh & trees.
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 02:04PM
Tomahawk your description above of Hudson is what I thought.
I did the roads north of Ferne lake via Ferne lake by canoe and they stayed open for quite awhile. I could go east and west at a T,but both ways they got grown over in the 90's. Them trails by Ferne were quite wide.
lindentree
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11/25/2018 03:09PM
Tomahawk: "Roads? What roads?" "Well, how about the road you're standing on", I might say. Bewildered, I'd have to show them how far the original roadbed went out from the trail that is now covered with brsuh & trees."

Yep, I was never a fan of hiking the Pow Wow trail west and north of Isabella Lake, because it always felt like I was hiking on an (abandoned) road, which it actually was/is.
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 03:46PM
Pinetree, the Insula/Hudson Roads did get overgrown by the 90s, if you weren't familiar with that area it was best to stay out. We never missed a year up there from 1971-2011 until the fire came through. You'd really had to know where the old road went to keep your bearings.
There was a guy around 2001 or so, Jason Rasmussen I believe his name was, that got himself lost for about 7-8 days near Arrow Lakes. I believe it was the beginning of November and he got caught back there in about 14" of wet snow. Totally lost, no idea where he was. Luckily, they found him alive but the rescuers used ATVs to get back in there and recut the trail below Insula and over to Arrow, they were in great shape once again for many years. If you want to read a good book about it, "Lost in the Wild" by Cary Griffith will have your attention.
Those roads around Ferne lake were wide enough to drive a pulp truck down in places! We called it the Ferne Loop, it left the North Road south of Arrow Lakes and came back to it south of Maniwaki Lake. Birds all over back then.
Did you ever fish Ferne?. Great walleye fishing, nice fish in there!
Tomahawk
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11/25/2018 04:25PM
I will bring these names up to him the next time we meet, not sure when that will be. Don mentioned a few names here, he knew Freddie & Ollie Thumes. I knew Freddie myself, threw down more than 1 beer with him at the Happy Wanderer. He also mentioned Charlie Hommerding, I knew him as well. Charlie lived on the Bandana Lake Road off Hwy. 1 for many years. Speaking of Jim Lundbereg, this is him in the picture of the young kids at school in Forest Center. Jim is in the 1st row, 4th from left I believe.
JackpineJim
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11/25/2018 04:45PM
Tomahawk: " I will bring these names up to him the next time we meet, not sure when that will be. Don mentioned a few names here, he knew Freddie & Ollie Thumes. I knew Freddie myself, threw down more than 1 beer with him at the Happy Wanderer. He also mentioned Charlie Hommerding, I knew him as well. Charlie lived on the Bandana Lake Road off Hwy. 1 for many years. Speaking of Jim Lundbereg, this is him in the picture of the young kids at school in Forest Center. Jim is in the 1st row, 4th from left I believe."

I knew a lot of those kids. If I'm not mistaken, the first four in the front row, left to right; Jimmy Krings, Jimmy Lundberg, Neil Olson, Johnny Olson, ?, ?, ?
Second row seated/kneeling, left to right; Jim Steigel, ?, ?, Pam Dehnhoff, ?, Suzie Westerland, ?, ?, ?
Third row standing (six girls); ?, ?, Thelma Gardener, Margaret Housey, Christine Thums, ?
Back row standing; Jimmy Evans, Mikey Yeager, ?, ?, ?, Ricky Deitrick, Shirly Thums, ?, Mrs. Sylvia Hansen, Larry Lundberg, ?
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 05:12PM
Tomahawk: "Pinetree, the Insula/Hudson Roads did get overgrown by the 90s, if you weren't familiar with that area it was best to stay out. We never missed a year up there from 1971-2011 until the fire came through. You'd really had to know where the old road went to keep your bearings.
There was a guy around 2001 or so, Jason Rasmussen I believe his name was, that got himself lost for about 7-8 days near Arrow Lakes. I believe it was the beginning of November and he got caught back there in about 14" of wet snow. Totally lost, no idea where he was. Luckily, they found him alive but the rescuers used ATVs to get back in there and recut the trail below Insula and over to Arrow, they were in great shape once again for many years. If you want to read a good book about it, "Lost in the Wild" by Cary Griffith will have your attention.
Those roads around Ferne lake were wide enough to drive a pulp truck down in places! We called it the Ferne Loop, it left the North Road south of Arrow Lakes and came back to it south of Maniwaki Lake. Birds all over back then.
Did you ever fish Ferne?. Great walleye fishing, nice fish in there!"


I knew that area quite well where he got lost. The trail slowly disappeared after you crossed the the big meadow with the beaver dam. I actually bushwacked to fish arrow than.
Actually when I heard he was lost on the news for some reason I thought it was the east end toward lake two etc.. the way they talked at first?
I though to myself at that time where could a person get lost along the Pow Wow and the first area I thought of was that trail where he did get lost. But I thought what do I know and let it go at that. Luckly he made it out and the many mistakes he made,but had a strong will to live.
I always have my compass and map and know enough about the flowages and land marks. I know we came up there after that incident happened and the snow must of melted after that.

Yes for years we made a August-Labor day weekend trip into that lake. Than it started getting more popular. Tried once since the fire and I think I could of made it but decided to camp on the Parent river.
Pinetree
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11/25/2018 05:46PM
We still hunted the Pow Wow up to the year of the fire. The early 90's there was hunters galore the first two miles than they thinned out. As the trails grew up and many of the side branches disappeared you seen few hunters.
We often stayed in a topper-pickup in the gravel pit on the right,or the one with the gravel pit in the pines about 0.5 miles after crossing the Island river going to the center.

Back than it seemed like the bird hatches were huge with 6-10 in a group sometimes. Ruff or spruce. I preferred Ruff but actually got to like Spruce. To me their in between a ruff grouse and a duck taste. I know most people don't like the pine needles eating grouse.
Tomahawk
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11/26/2018 08:55AM

Jackpine, you've added quite a few names to that photo I found on the Internet. Thanks much! You've identified Don (Bobby) Krings for me. His real name was Don but hey called him Bobby, maybe his dad was also Don? When I was a senior in high school in Ely (1966), Don and his girlfriend, Jeannie Kramm came to Ely from Forest Center. I got to know Don a little, they were both real quiet, very nice people. Lovebirds, they made a great couple and eventually got married, had one daughter at least. I lost track of them after high school and I believe Don went in the service and came out to work fro Reserve Mining Co. in Babbitt, possibly a welder. Sadly to say, both Don & Jeannie have passed away.
Tomahawk
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11/26/2018 09:07AM
Pinetree, I know exactly where you are, where that grassy area was and the trail nearly disappeared in places. You had to know where the trail went originally to pick it up again further along. Where that beaver dam is and the pond to the right as you were heading toward Arrow, we always called that Lost Lake in honor of Rasmussen that was lost. He was not far from here when he did really foolish things.
The reason you thought he might've been lost on the east part of the Pow Wow might be because that was where he was supposed to be heading. If you read that book, Rasmussen tells of seeing a beaver dam not far from where the Quadga Road leaves the North Road. There is NO beaver dam where he claims, going east on the North Road just after the Quadga Fork, there is one not far down the Quadga Road, however. I believe that's what he did, he went toward Quadga and then for some reason headed back toward the North Road and then continued up toward Insula/Hudson. He does not claim to do this back pedaling in the book, I believe he became unsure of himself this early at that Quadga Fork, now they have since put up arrows going in both directions, these were never there before he got lost. They were trying to stay away from putting up signs in a wilderness area to make it appear more "wild." Now they have also put up a directional sign where the trail goes to Insula off the North Road. Then later on Rasmussen paid little attention to the big grassy area further up (the maintained trail goes west to Pose Lake here) where the un- maintained trail continued north to Insula, eventually over to Arrow. He continued north where he lost, regained and continued to regain and lose the trail.
Pinetree
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11/26/2018 09:38AM
I thought he might of got lost there because instead of going toward Pose at first the trail is real good going straight ahead. Than you get what I call the beaver pond-meadow. After that the trail slowly disappears and it kind of fools you and pulls you in until you lose it. Than everything looks the same.

I have followed the meadows south from the beaver pond and it stays meadow like quite abit. Talk about moose looking country.

Tomahawk
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11/26/2018 09:51AM
Did you say you had gone into Arrow quite often to fish in August and others were coming in there as well?
You are right, the first few miles of the Pow Wow had many hunters but they thinned out fast after that.
I remember a pickup/topper parked in the gravel pits, so that was you. Someone made a nice trail into Arrow, maybe that was you as well.
I have an interesting memory on that road that ran just south of Insula. I was bird hunting and the road then was a 2 track road with grass in the center. So, the road was in very good shape at the time, had to be in the early 80s I'm guessing. I was about halfway between where the Hudson Road forked off and Arrows Lakes. I happened to be in a low spot on the road, walking toward Arrow and the road was about to climb a small hill. All of a sudden I heard distant thumping and an occasional crash. I had no idea what it was until the noise became louder & louder from whatever was running down the road TOWARD me. Because of the hill I didn't know if it was a moose or bear but figured it had to be something big like that. As the critter got closer I could hear hooves thundering as they hit the ground and then over the crest of the hill comes a good-sized cow moose and her calf. They were all white-eyed with eyes bulging and wide open, coming down the slight hill I was just below at a full sprint. They saw me as I had nearly frozen in place trying to figure out what to do next. I do remember stepping off the road to give them all the room they needed. Instead, mom did a 90 degree turn to the left and the calf did the same. They both ran off the road a mere 10' from me, crashing through the brush. Something had put them at a full sprint like that so I got ready with my 12 ga. for whatever was going to happen next. I figured a pack of wolves had been after them but nothing came. I listened carefully after the moose disappeared and nothing. No sound at all. I never heard anything more nor ever saw what ever put them on the run. I do suspect wolves that had gotten my scent and ran off. Or. could've been a bear after them as it was the end of September. Interesting times in that country..............you never knew what you were going to come across next.
Pinetree
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11/26/2018 10:19AM
Ferne lake was the one of increasing traffic for a few years. I think the fire stopped most all with downfalls. I don't know now.
Arrow lake might as well say nobody fished hardly. I do know two people use to bushwack from Insula to the Arrow chain and fish every few years. This was decades ago.
Arrow I usually fished a short time and got small northern pike,mostly grouse hunted in. Their is some nice pike in one of the three Arrow lakes.
Pinetree
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11/26/2018 10:24AM
I think the trail clearing which was not me is the fellow I believe was from Virginia and he always had a machete and was cutting mainly tag alder of and on while hunting. I also believe it was him who always started walking like the Pow Wow when it was pitch dark for like a half hour to get ahead of other hunters. Every Saturday he would be there.
Also my brother often talked with a gentlemen from Duluth quite often while he was on the Pow Wow. My brother to do the south Arrow route until it grew up than switched to Quadga and back out. It was him and his young boy in the early 1990's on that trail.

Tomahawk
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11/26/2018 04:03PM
Pinetree, I'm surprised there was that much traffic into Ferne. The last time I was in there we did real well with the walleyes. Coming out we ran into 4 people coming in on the portage. They were surprised to see someone (us) in Ferne and asked if we had our "Primitive Permit." Huh? They told us we needed one of these special permits in order to be in Ferne Lake, this was on top of the BW permit. They made it sound like only one party could be in there at a time It was news to me, that was the last time I was in there. On that trip the portage was getting increasingly hard to find, I carried the canoe down a moose trail that was better than the portage itself for a short time until I realized it wasn't the portage. The first time I was in there fishing they had a couple of campsites with facilities (fireplace grate, latrines, etc.) That last time I was in there all that was gone, it had become a "Primitive Area" where they do no maintenance. If you didn't want anyone to go into a lake, that's what you'd do I guess. Later I heard that you could no longer even find the portage. After that I did take a short walk on the portage from Perent River and there were all sorts of windfalls across the trail, near impossible to navigate. Too bad, I liked going in there. That was all before the fire.
Not only were the fishing memories good ones but he bird hunting was really great. We'd walk in from the North Road and make the loop that went back to the North Road. There must've been a camp at the top of the lake where the road came in, a big clearing there. That clearing was usually all torn up from moose in rut. For some reason they sure liked that area.
JackpineJim
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11/27/2018 10:47PM
Tomahawk: " Malberg was a great lake for walleyes, some of the fastest fishing I've ever had including Canadian fishing but the walleyes were fairly small. We'd talk to people fishing Koma for huge northerns, they said, but I never wet a line there when the walleyes were so close by in Malberg.
The guy I talked to yesterday was Don Hoover, great guy, hard worker. He said he drove right into the crash site of that B-17 on a road the government put in there. There wasn't much left when he was there, a couple of wings and small parts was about it. He said the Air Force came in to get the 4 engines and the Norden bomb sight. That bomb sight was super secret and used for precision bombing, something the Russians never had but would've been very interested in. The engines had superchargers on them to give a boost when carrying heavy bomb loads, our allies the Brits wanted to know more about that but as far as I know we never let them in on it. I still laugh about that."


This is a transcript of my dad's B-17 bomber story:

"When I was nine years old, we lived in Little Bear Camp by Little Bear Lake, South of the Tomahawk Road. On the day before Thanksgiving [Wednesday, November 22, 1944], just before dark I was outside and a B-17 bomber flew over real low sputtering and missing a bunch of beats like it was running out of gas, and I knew it was going to crash.

The next morning I went cross country about a mile and came to that little creek and followed the creek and I could see where the wings had sliced off or chopped off the trees - popple and jackpine and spruce. It actually lit in a spruce swamp. One of the motors and one of the wheels tumbled right into the creek.

I went through the plane and found a few items. A couple of 50 caliber shells, one with a red nose and one with a black tip. The machine gun was kind of knocked loose so I tugged and twisted and pulled it loose and drug into the woods and hid it in the spruce moss and stuff. Over a period of days, me and little Joey Gutowski would drag it a ways, and then [my cousin] Ruth would help, and we'd drag it a ways and we eventually got it all the way back to Bear Lake Camp.

Well, then Uncle Ted went into Klune's Tavern in Ely and talked about the machine gun. The next Sunday, The Sheriff came into camp - it wasn't even his jurisdiction, it's a different county. He came in with the siren going - that's enough to scare anybody - and [told us] it was illegal to have an automatic weapon. So, he took my machine gun away from me.

In the mean time there was no road in there. So I had a thriving little business there. People would pay me fifty cents to take them in there, they wanted to see it and they'd get souvenirs. Fifty cents was a lot of money in those days. I made a few bucks on that deal.

When I was a teenager the sheriff's daughter took me to see the machine gun - it was mounted on a rock monument in the sheriff's yard.

Years later [about 1960] me and one of my best friends, Hank Knuth, went in there and found where the bomber came down. Somebody had salvaged it and picked all the aluminum scrap and everthing out of it.

And that's my bomber story."

Here is a couple of references I found on the internet:
B-17 crash near Isabella
"The ears of many Jackson countians were held close to the radios last Wednesday afternoon as announcers related the progress of the flight of a Flying Fortress which had gone out of control with ten men aboard and was circling over a two hundred miles area in South Dakota and Minnesota, and did not crash until five hours later. Before the crash, however, the announcer said that ten parachutes had been seen floating down from the runaway Fortress and it was believed that all the crew had landed safely. While people were interested in the progress of the pilotless plane they did not realize that one of the members of that crew was Cpl. James O. Sayre, son of Mr. and Mrs. J.W. Sayre, of Sandyville. On Thursday morning it had been definitely established that all the members of the crew, including Cpl. Sayre, had landed safely at widely separated points in South Dakota. The plane crashed near Isabella, Minnesota late Wednesday afternoon, and the ten members of the crew, had abandoned it near Marion, South Dakota five hours earlier. Minnesota forest rangers saw the plane crash at 4:45 eastern war time. (Friday, Dec 1, 1944)"

Read page 144 of this book (link)
Minnesota Goes to War
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 09:40AM
Jackpine, you have certainly done your homework! Great story on the B-17. I had heard that the plane was armorless, stripped of all weapons in 1946 and had only the pilot & copilot aboard plus I heard that it was abandoned over the MN-ND border. But with 10 men aboard I am certain it had to have been fully armed, I believe the 17s had 9 gun stations, all.50 cal. Where it went down is the spot I had heard where it went in from a pretty credible source. He said, "Off the east side of Bomber Road, about a mile south of the Tomahawk Road." To this day they still call FR 177 Bomber Road. I'll bet that red tipped.50 cal. round your dad found was a tracer round - when they fired it it left a red trail so they could see where the rounds were going and where they were hitting.
I might have an idea of who that guy was who confiscated the gun. It was rumored that when single guys who worked for Tomahawk passed away a certain guy would show up to collect any valuables they had. Never knew if it was true or not.
By the way, did you know Don (Bobby) Krings, age about 70 now if he were still alive? Possibly Jeannie Kramm was one of the girls in that class photo you hadn't identified. Don (Bobby) you had identified and Jeannie was his main squeeze.
lindentree
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11/28/2018 10:54AM
A little off topic, but this F 16 went down 15 to 20 miles from Isabella by Whyte.
I remember guys I worked with assisted Lake County in the initial SAR before the military cordoned it off.
I know the top of the article states Hennepin cty, but everything else indicates it went down south of isabella.

"F-16A 81-0684 (call sign WOLF 3) of the 179th FS, 148th FG, Minnesota Air National Guard, USAF, was written off on 7 January 1987 when it crashed 47 miles north of its home base in Duluth, Minnesota, while practising night intercepts. The aircraft went down in a remote dense woodland area at Whyte, near Greenwood Lake. The pilot, Major Pete Woodbury, did not eject, and was killed."

F 16 crashes near Whyte
Pinetree
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11/28/2018 11:07AM
I think Jackpine Jim and Tomohawk should write a book of that area.
Pinetree
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11/28/2018 11:07AM
I think Jackpine Jim and Tomohawk should write a book of that area.
JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 11:23AM
Tomahawk: "Jackpine, you have certainly done your homework! Great story on the B-17. I had heard that the plane was armorless, stripped of all weapons in 1946 and had only the pilot & copilot aboard plus I heard that it was abandoned over the MN-ND border. But with 10 men aboard I am certain it had to have been fully armed, I believe the 17s had 9 gun stations, all.50 cal. Where it went down is the spot I had heard where it went in from a pretty credible source. He said, "Off the east side of Bomber Road, about a mile south of the Tomahawk Road." To this day they still call FR 177 Bomber Road. I'll bet that red tipped.50 cal. round your dad found was a tracer round - when they fired it it left a red trail so they could see where the rounds were going and where they were hitting.
I might have an idea of who that guy was who confiscated the gun. It was rumored that when single guys who worked for Tomahawk passed away a certain guy would show up to collect any valuables they had. Never knew if it was true or not.
By the way, did you know Don (Bobby) Krings, age about 70 now if he were still alive? Possibly Jeannie Kramm was one of the girls in that class photo you hadn't identified. Don (Bobby) you had identified and Jeannie was his main squeeze. "

The Krings in that photo would be 64 years old.
JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 11:23AM
Tomahawk: "Jackpine, you have certainly done your homework! Great story on the B-17. I had heard that the plane was armorless, stripped of all weapons in 1946 and had only the pilot & copilot aboard plus I heard that it was abandoned over the MN-ND border. But with 10 men aboard I am certain it had to have been fully armed, I believe the 17s had 9 gun stations, all.50 cal. Where it went down is the spot I had heard where it went in from a pretty credible source. He said, "Off the east side of Bomber Road, about a mile south of the Tomahawk Road." To this day they still call FR 177 Bomber Road. I'll bet that red tipped.50 cal. round your dad found was a tracer round - when they fired it it left a red trail so they could see where the rounds were going and where they were hitting.
I might have an idea of who that guy was who confiscated the gun. It was rumored that when single guys who worked for Tomahawk passed away a certain guy would show up to collect any valuables they had. Never knew if it was true or not.
By the way, did you know Don (Bobby) Krings, age about 70 now if he were still alive? Possibly Jeannie Kramm was one of the girls in that class photo you hadn't identified. Don (Bobby) you had identified and Jeannie was his main squeeze. "

It appears, I was mistaken. That is Jimmy Krings in that photo and would be my age, 64 years old. I must have mixed the names up remembering a story my uncle Allen told me about how his friend Bobby Krings saved his life after he was knocked unconscious when he hit his head on a rock while diving into Lake Isabella. My uncle Allen was born on November 7th, 1949, the same year as Don “Bobby” Krings. I will edit the names I associated with that photo.
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 11:29AM
Lindentree, I remember that well. Very sad story near Greenwood Lake. I don't recall them finding the plane right away, either. Am I correct on that?
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 11:32AM
I'm game if Jackpine jim is game!
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 11:33AM
Don had a younger brother, I think his name was Gary. Maybe that was Gary Krings in that photo? I think both brothers were excellent welders.
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 11:35AM
Jackpine Jim, I'm still laughing about your dad getting 50 cents a head for taking folks in to get their own souvenirs. What an entrepreneur at 9 yrs. old! He must've been a great guy to talk to with all his stories. Wow! I would've been all ears.
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 11:50AM
I never knew of Jimmy Krings, just Gary & Don, but if I remember correctly it was a big family.
lindentree
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11/28/2018 01:03PM
Tomahawk: " Lindentree, I remember that well. Very sad story near Greenwood Lake. I don't recall them finding the plane right away, either. Am I correct on that?"

If I remember correctly it may have been a few days or more before they found the jet.
A story from my co-worker goes like this.

"Lake County sheriff's dept and Search and Rescue came into the USFS Isabella Work Station to coordinate the search. I asked them if they needed a map because we had TOPO maps of the entire area at our station.
Sherrif's dept employee replied (no, we have a map).

He then pulled out a Lake County Plat book."
Pinetree
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11/28/2018 01:20PM
07 Jan 1997 [w/o] 81684 81-0684 [USAF] USAF 179 FS F-16A Block 15C ADF Details


The aircraft went down about 50 miles north of its home base in Duluth, Minnesota while practicing night intercepts. The aircraft went down in a remote dense woodland area near Greenwood Lake. The pilot, Maj. Pete Woodbury, did not eject.
Pinetree
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11/28/2018 01:24PM
ellahallely
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11/28/2018 01:57PM
lindentree: "Tomahawk: " Lindentree, I remember that well. Very sad story near Greenwood Lake. I don't recall them finding the plane right away, either. Am I correct on that?"


If I remember correctly it may have been a few days or more before they found the jet.
A story from my co-worker goes like this.


"Lake County sheriff's dept and Search and Rescue came into the USFS Isabella Work Station to coordinate the search. I asked them if they needed a map because we had TOPO maps of the entire area at our station.
Sherrif's dept employee replied (no, we have a map).


He then pulled out a Lake County Plat book."
"


Correct the plane was found 2 or 3 days later. It was spotted by SAR plane.

It is pretty common to see the Air National Guard dog fighting in this area. This is MOA snoopy west(military operations area.. air space) 6000 feet up to 18000 feet.

There is another plane and pilot still missing in the area from 2012 link to story link to story

The forest service also crashed a plane on the shore of Dumbbell Lake in the 50s I think, everyone walked away from that crash. There is a book by Bob Cary called Bush Pilots: Legends of the Old and Bold . It talks about flying out of Ely and a few other crashes. Good book for anyone that enjoys the history of the area.

Shagawa lake in Ely had 350 floats planes on it before the air ban. This is part of the reason for few roads, everyone flew into their cabins and camps.
inspector13
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11/28/2018 02:17PM

Around those days I was running up and down the Stony River Road in my 1984 Volkswagen Golf.

JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 02:36PM
Tomahawk: "I'm game if Jackpine jim is game!"

I’m in - I’m gaining a better understanding of a salmon’s desire to find their stream :)
Tomahawk
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11/28/2018 04:47PM
Good to hear that you're in Jackpine, that book we'd write would be a best seller. The first chapter would be about your dad and his souvenir business, that'd sell the book right there! I'm still giggling.
Jackpine, you asked me earlier how I got interested in the area. I tried to reply but I had issues with the website, all seems to be working fine now so here it goes. It goes back to our neighborhood when I grew up in Ely. An older guy I got to know was a "catskinner" for the Forest Service. He was a heavy equipment operator for them and he ran an International TD-19 (similar in size to a Caterpillar D8 or D9) dozer. I was always interested in those that ran such equipment, so about 1968 or so I asked him what he was doing currently. He said he and another TD-19 were working up north of Ferne Lake, rock raking. The photo here shows a rock rake, a fork-like attachment that they put on the front of dozers to pick up all the left over branches and tops from recent logging operations and push them into piles or windrows for burning. For any snags or trees left standing they would hook up anchor chain to the rear of the dozers. This anchor chain is the same anchor chain used on Great Lakes ships, real heavy chain with links about a foot long. For a long time there was about a 50' length of this very chain near Camp 2, right along the road, many of you out there probably remember this chain. After they hook this chain up to the back of the dozers, the run parallel with each other and knock down anything left standing.
The older guy that was doing the rock raking told me about all the grouse and moose he'd see everyday. The area was open to hunting on foot but there was a gate across the road that would not allow private vehicles in. Each day they'd have a key for the gate, open it, and drive their panel truck up to their two TD-19s north of Ferne. During the week they'd stay in the last house left at Forest Center that was atop the hill overlooking the pulp yard. I've been told this was the McDonald house. Nice house with a garage and a full basement.
I started hunting the area in 1971 and we saw so many moose and grouse that people wouldn't believe us. It was the heyday for both, we'd see those big coveys of spruce and ruffed that Pinetree talked about. Coveys of 7-8 were fairly common, some as large as 11-12. It would be no time at all before we'd have a limit so then we'd quit hunting and just walk to see how many grouse and moose we'd see. We never counted how many we saw in those early years but later on there was another spike in the grouse population in the 80s and I decided to count one particular day. We ended up seeing 72 one day, mostly ruffs. Those early days in the 70s were even better, we saw even more then. When we first started in '71, the only tracks we'd see were moose & wolf tracks, no boot tracks. An occasional tire track as they were still logging in certain areas plus they'd have wolf trackers in vehicles. A wild time, indeed.
Pinetree
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11/28/2018 06:12PM
A person looks back and can now say>Boy we had it good back than. A person in life sometimes doesn't realize how good he had it at times until it passes.

I can just see it now a Autographed book by you two and a book signing with people lined up out the doors and around the corner.
lindentree
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11/28/2018 06:16PM
ellahallely: "


Correct the plane was found 2 or 3 days later. It was spotted by SAR plane.

"


ellahall,

I talked to a retired fuel truck driver from the 148th today, (we know each other from the local watering hole) and asked him about this F-16 accident.
He remembers it and said that the plot had Vertigo, according to my buddy he was upside down and the planes voice computer kept telling him to pull up, so he did and flew it right into the ground, that was probabally why the report said he was doing 4-6 G's when it crashed.
JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 07:39PM
lindentree: "ellahallely: "



Correct the plane was found 2 or 3 days later. It was spotted by SAR plane.


"



ellahall,


I talked to a retired fuel truck driver from the 148th today, (we know each other from the local watering hole) and asked him about this F-16 accident.
He remembers it and said that the plot had Vertigo, according to my buddy he was upside down and the planes voice computer kept telling him to pull up, so he did and flew it right into the ground, that was probabally why the report said he was doing 4-6 G's when it crashed."


I seem to recall a spate of F-16 crashes blamed on computer malfunction in the fly-by-wire system about that time. I don't know much about those systems but I have my share of computer malfunctions :) I've also had bout of full spin vertigo and would hate to be driving anything, let alone an F-16 at 600 mph, when it came on. I'm sure its thrilling to fly one of those babies but it comes with an element of danger. God bless those called to serve our country.
JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 07:53PM
ellahallely: "lindentree: "Tomahawk: " Lindentree, I remember that well. Very sad story near Greenwood Lake. I don't recall them finding the plane right away, either. Am I correct on that?"



If I remember correctly it may have been a few days or more before they found the jet.
A story from my co-worker goes like this.



"Lake County sheriff's dept and Search and Rescue came into the USFS Isabella Work Station to coordinate the search. I asked them if they needed a map because we had TOPO maps of the entire area at our station.
Sherrif's dept employee replied (no, we have a map).



He then pulled out a Lake County Plat book."
"


Correct the plane was found 2 or 3 days later. It was spotted by SAR plane.

It is pretty common to see the Air National Guard dog fighting in this area. This is MOA snoopy west(military operations area.. air space) 6000 feet up to 18000 feet.

There is another plane and pilot still missing in the area from 2012 link to story link to story

The forest service also crashed a plane on the shore of Dumbbell Lake in the 50s I think, everyone walked away from that crash. There is a book by Bob Cary called Bush Pilots: Legends of the Old and Bold . It talks about flying out of Ely and a few other crashes. Good book for anyone that enjoys the history of the area.

Shagawa lake in Ely had 350 floats planes on it before the air ban. This is part of the reason for few roads, everyone flew into their cabins and camps."


My dad told me about a float plane that crashed in Malberg Lake sometime in the early 1950's due to being overloaded with walleyes they were poaching. I wonder if there's a mention of that in Bob Carey's book?

JackpineJim
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11/28/2018 08:19PM
Tomahawk: "Good to hear that you're in Jackpine, that book we'd write would be a best seller. The first chapter would be about your dad and his souvenir business, that'd sell the book right there! I'm still giggling.
Jackpine, you asked me earlier how I got interested in the area. I tried to reply but I had issues with the website, all seems to be working fine now so here it goes. It goes back to our neighborhood when I grew up in Ely. An older guy I got to know was a "catskinner" for the Forest Service. He was a heavy equipment operator for them and he ran an International TD-19 (similar in size to a Caterpillar D8 or D9) dozer. I was always interested in those that ran such equipment, so about 1968 or so I asked him what he was doing currently. He said he and another TD-19 were working up north of Ferne Lake, rock raking. The photo here shows a rock rake, a fork-like attachment that they put on the front of dozers to pick up all the left over branches and tops from recent logging operations and push them into piles or windrows for burning. For any snags or trees left standing they would hook up anchor chain to the rear of the dozers. This anchor chain is the same anchor chain used on Great Lakes ships, real heavy chain with links about a foot long. For a long time there was about a 50' length of this very chain near Camp 2, right along the road, many of you out there probably remember this chain. After they hook this chain up to the back of the dozers, the run parallel with each other and knock down anything left standing.
The older guy that was doing the rock raking told me about all the grouse and moose he'd see everyday. The area was open to hunting on foot but there was a gate across the road that would not allow private vehicles in. Each day they'd have a key for the gate, open it, and drive their panel truck up to their two TD-19s north of Ferne. During the week they'd stay in the last house left at Forest Center that was atop the hill overlooking the pulp yard. I've been told this was the McDonald house. Nice house with a garage and a full basement.
I started hunting the area in 1971 and we saw so many moose and grouse that people wouldn't believe us. It was the heyday for both, we'd see those big coveys of spruce and ruffed that Pinetree talked about. Coveys of 7-8 were fairly common, some as large as 11-12. It would be no time at all before we'd have a limit so then we'd quit hunting and just walk to see how many grouse and moose we'd see. We never counted how many we saw in those early years but later on there was another spike in the grouse population in the 80s and I decided to count one particular day. We ended up seeing 72 one day, mostly ruffs. Those early days in the 70s were even better, we saw even more then. When we first started in '71, the only tracks we'd see were moose & wolf tracks, no boot tracks. An occasional tire track as they were still logging in certain areas plus they'd have wolf trackers in vehicles. A wild time, indeed.
"


I wish I would have walked those roads then but when dad had vacation time we'd canoe into Koma and Malberg. We'd always see 10 or more moose on those trips. It was moose heaven.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 07:50AM
I've read that book and I don't recall any mention of that incident. After reading the book I happened to mention the book to a retired U.S. Forest Service Beaver pilot. He just smiled and said his take on the book was that Carey was a "journalist" and said some of the incidents may have been embellished for journalism's sake. I have no idea, just telling you what he told me.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 09:07AM
Jackpine, I don't recall seening many moose in either Koma or Malberg as you did, you were fortunate, indeed, We did see some on Louse River, going east from Malberg through Boze Lake into Trail Lake.
Our jackpot moose area was from Insula Lake to Maniwaki. We'd camp in Insula and one day when we were taking the creek to Hope lake we came across a big cow moose right smack dab in the middle of the creek. It was odd to us because other moose we had seen in the rivers would usually move off when they'd see us coming through. But this critter had found good feed and wasn't about to leave until she was ready to do so. She'd put her head underwater for a long time and come up with a mouthful. Staring us down the whole time her head was back up. We were young & dumb at the time and my partner at the stern said we should paddle a bit closer and see she if moves, sounded good so we inched our way toward her and then she inched her way toward us. The guy in the back said let's stay here and hold our ground. Well, I was closest to her in the bow and that didn't sound good at all to me and after I protested mildly we backed up. Then she held her ground as well. The standoff continued for quite a time until we thought if we hit our paddles on the water she'd move. Nope, just gave us that evil glare and continued feeding. She must've seen this move before. This went on for at least 1/2 hr. -45 mn. (seemed like hours at the time) until she had her fill both of whatever she was eating and us. She then just moved off and back into the tree cover.
Maniwaki would be a good place to see moose. Each time we were in there we'd see at least 3, sometimes 6 along the shore. We were in there at the end of August once and saw one of the top 5 biggest bulls I'd ever seen. He was with 2 cows and looked like he was starting his harem already. Enormous antlers on that boy!! He was by far the biggest bull I had seen in there.
ellahallely
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11/29/2018 09:12AM
I don't remember a crash on Malberg Lake in the book. Yes Bob Cary was sometimes lets say dramatic. He did run for president a few times on the fishing ballot. I am sure a lot of the lakes had float plane crashes with the number of planes flying around.

There was a popular snowmobile route through there Kawishiwi, Polly, Koma, Malberg, Adams, Boulder, then west into Snowbank, Basswood, Fall and into Ely. Until the 70s ban on snowmobiles.

OT Lindentree how about the Mahnomen/Waubun Thunderbirds football team!!

JIM P.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 09:32AM
Very interesting, I do not recall a snowmobile route going from Kawishiwi lake to Malberg. I do remember the border routes from Basswood through Knife, etc., I didn't know there was one from Kawishiwi Lake. Did you ever travel that route, seems like not very good ice with so many creeks to travel on.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 09:46AM
Pinetree,
Those were the days, for certain. When the roads north & east of Isabella Lake were no longer used for logging, they were in excellent shape for walking & grouse hunting. Seeing all the moose was always a huge bonus. My hunting partner and I have talked about this often, we thought it would always be that way with the roads and being in such a remote area we figured the moose and grouse would always be there in big numbers. Like you said, you don't realize what you've had until you lost it. For the last 2 yrs. we've taken a walk on the old North Road, very difficult with all the trees across the road. I give them credit for trying to keep it open but the trees keep falling across the trail. Didn't see a grouse, either. Two years ago we saw 1 set of moose tracks, this year nothing. We only walked up to where the Insula Road left the North Road, the walking was that difficult.
The only way I'd be part of a book is if you were also part of it; then yourself, Jackpine and I could all be part of the book signing :-)
ellahallely
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11/29/2018 10:03AM
I traveled that route a handful of times. There were always spots with bad ice, however most creeks froze pretty solid. Low water and deep snow. I will look around I know I have a hand drawn map and itinerary around somewhere. I will post them if I find them.

I also took the border route many times. I knew Benny Ambrose and Dorothy Molter. We would bring them some supplies and fresher food. I think the border route closed around 1985. Being good to Dorothy always assured me and my friends home brew beer, not the "flat" root beer for us.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 10:29AM
Ellahallely, I knew Dorothy well, we'd stay there many times (always tried to get the Point Cabin) when we fished Knife for lake trout. Helped put ice up for her a couple of times. Never knew Benny. Ahhhhh, that Dorothy's cold root beer on a hot day. Will never forget how good it tasted! I think that all ended in 1985.
Another motor route was Isabella Lake through Bald Eagle/Gabbro. Not sure if that was a snowmobile route, however. We'd take outboards in there but I was never in there in the winter. I'd be interesting to see what that map looked like from Kawishiwi Lake north, just wasn't aware of it.
ellahallely
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11/29/2018 10:45AM
Tomahawk maybe we crossed paths at onetime or another. I also helped Dorothy put up ice one year. There was a group of snowmobilers from Two Harbors that helped her put up ice many times. Was at the memorial for Dorothy at Knife Lake, there were about 500 snowmobiles there.


I have a snowmobile map from around 1970 of the Ely area I will find and post.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 11:00AM
Ellahallely, I was at that memorial service on Knife as well, a somber day indeed. Reading your emails along with Jackpine Jim and Pinetree, I know we've crossed paths. Maybe even stumbled across Lindentree's path once or twice. It's a small world.
If you can find that map, that'd be neat to see .
Pinetree
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11/29/2018 11:07AM
Tomohawk or Jackpine did you ever deer hunt there. The mid 60's to at least 1969 that very hard winter I heard there was lot of deer in the area. There had to be some really big brutes with the light hunting pressure.

I bet with the logging town there some of the residents hunted from town in the very early years also?

I mentioned many times but still remember the time coming around a cornerin that area here comes a dark colored wolf-well it flushes a grouse and it lands in a tree above me. The wolf looks at me and walks away after we stared at each other for awhile. For some reason I just couldn't shoot that grouse. Maybe I could of trained the wolf to be a bird dog? Well I do have a imagination.
ellahallely
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11/29/2018 11:13AM
Lindentree and I have crossed paths. We went flying over the area last spring. He also lives on the Rez that my father grew up on. Maybe next spring before things start to grow you, Jackpinejim, Pinetree, and myself could find a time to get together. Maybe I could take us flying over the area. The old roads are easy to see before the brush starts to green up.

JIM P.
Pinetree
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11/29/2018 11:15AM
Tomahawk: " Ellahallely, I knew Dorothy well, we'd stay there many times (always tried to get the Point Cabin) when we fished Knife for lake trout. Helped put ice up for her a couple of times. Never knew Benny. Ahhhhh, that Dorothy's cold root beer on a hot day. Will never forget how good it tasted! I think that all ended in 1985.
Another motor route was Isabella Lake through Bald Eagle/Gabbro. Not sure if that was a snowmobile route, however. We'd take outboards in there but I was never in there in the winter. I'd be interesting to see what that map looked like from Kawishiwi Lake north, just wasn't aware of it."


My brother new Dorothy well also,she always talked about her secret lake for lake trout?
LindenTree
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11/29/2018 12:25PM
ellahallely: "

OT Lindentree how about the Mahnomen/Waubun Thunderbirds football team!!


JIM P."


Yes, I watched the game on TV, Jeremy Londo was the MVP for the T-Birds.
I fought fire with his dad also (jeremy) and two uncles for many years, I have been fairly close to that family ever since. they are from Naytahwaush.

That area sure puts out good football players, Mahnomen was always good but Waubun (a much smaller town) won the state title a couple times if I remember right.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 12:36PM
Dorothy mentioned that secret lake to us as well but never said which one it was. By process of elimination we thought it might be Amoeber, we got some nice lakers out of there. When we mentioned to her that we had been into Amoeber, her secret lake, she just smiled. She had a heck of a poker face from playing cards with her sister Ruth and brother Bud. They fleeced us more than once :-))
But that's another story...................
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 12:48PM
Pinetree, yes, there were some big, big deer in that area north & east of Isabella Lake. We didn't see many over the years but when we saw one it was a big animal. The Forest Center people hunted there a lot, we'd run into some of their younger relatives or even they themselves and they would hunt deer there in the 70s. The nice doe in the photo here was one I came across between Quadga and Diana Lakes. Actually, it was very near the Quadga Village (where the houses had been built atop that sandpit to the north of the road and also down the side of the pit). I had flushed a bird off the road and went back to see if I could flush it again. Not far off the edge of the road was this dead doe. You can see where the hind end has been chewed by wolves, I assumed. There were no wolves that I saw and the deer was stiff, had been there awhile. You can see where the entrails are even coming out the back end. The next week when my partner came to the spot I described, there wasn't a thing left, only some hair.
Tomahawk
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11/29/2018 01:00PM
Pinetree, nope, never hunted deer there. We always had better places with more deer. If you hunted around Forest Center you were after big deer, I guess I never was.
You have a real sense of humor, training wolves to be a bird dog. I'll bet if anyone could, you could. Imagination or not! Good story about the wolf and the bird. You made me think of another story. My partner and I would try to hunt during the middle of the week, the weekends were becoming very crowded. One day during the middle of the week he went toward Arrow and I went up the East Road. It was one of those beautiful October mornings, clear sky and frost on the ground. I was walking in that mile from Forest Center toward where it was bermed up, just after legal shooting hours. It was still fairly dark and the stars were still out. When I got to that big boulder that was part of the berm I decided it was still a bit dark to see way back into the woods. So, I sat on another boulder there and poured myself some hot tea from my thermos. Not a breath of wind and quiet as could ever be. As I raised my cup to take a drink, all of a sudden a wolf bellowed out to the north of the road. Sounded like it was right in front of me but I'm guessing it was back in about a couple of blocks. Damn near scared the you know what out of me but luckily I had taken care of that in the Isabella Lake toilet at the parking lot. But my tea was all over me. Damn! Then another wolf cut loose with a long drawn out howl to the south of me. So loud on a quiet morning that I thought the critter could've been in my lap. The hairs on the back of my neck were like porcupine quills, I was between I had no idea how many! Luckily I never saw them and later I talked to a wolf guy who seemed to know something about them. He said what happened was I probably had gotten between 2 packs, I was in their buffer zone where they don't enter. It's an area that's a neutral zone to keep packs separated otherwise they'll kill each other. He also said that they've been finding that deer will live in these neutral zones knowing that they're safe. He figured the wolves were letting the other wolves in the opposing pack know they were there as well as letting me know they were there. As far as I was concerned, knowing that they were there gave me little comfort.
Zwater
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11/29/2018 04:30PM
I have read all of these posts. It is awesome! Keep telling stories, and write a book. I would definitely buy it!
Pinetree
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11/29/2018 07:09PM
Use to see the signs in the fall,beware traps(for individuals with dogs) set for wolves to tag and radio collar for a study.
ellahallely
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