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kbobb
member (7)member
 
09/12/2019 12:32PM
Hi all,
First time poster, long time reader. Due to evolving hip issues, I need to get rid of my kayak and am looking for a solo canoe. I'll be using it for day trips, fishing, exercise and general touring. No big trips planned at this time.

Was looking at two boats which are a bit different, but may accomplish the same goals - the Savage River Blackwater and the Placid Rapidfire. I don't race them, but I do appreciate the ease of paddling efficient boats. We have a MN II for our tandem. These will be used on waters of varying sizes, from calm to whitecaps. I do like having the option of a single or double blade paddle, depending on my mood and conditions.

I have paddled the Rapidfire and liked it - still sitting on the floor of the boat somewhat - not an elevated seat like the Blackwater. It did handle well in rougher water and was relatively easy to maneuver. I'm trying to get into a Blackwater this weekend.

If you have used these boats, I'm interested in your take on how they worked for you.

thanks for your time
 
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09/12/2019 01:06PM
Settled on your picks or open to others?

Several similar from several manufacturers. Three at the top of my mind, Advantage which I have, Magic often paddled, and Placid Shadow never been in, but very appealing.

butthead
 
09/12/2019 08:22PM
The Advantage is incredibly efficient and deceptively seaworthy. It would be 1st on my list. Double or single blade. Pick your poison .They'll both work
 
kbobb
member (7)member
 
09/13/2019 04:52PM
butthead: "Settled on your picks or open to others?

Several similar from several manufacturers. Three at the top of my mind, Advantage which I have, Magic often paddled, and Placid Shadow never been in, but very appealing.

butthead"

Hi - not locked into these yet, but I do really like the Rapidfire. I paddled the Oseeta (sp) which is the 14 ft version, and it was a bit more tender than the Rapidfire for me. I hear the Shadow is even moreso.

I have paddled a 13' Spitfire, Old Town pack, Magic and Merlin in the past, but that is about the extent of my solo boat exposure. I would like the option of using double and single blade paddles, but mostly double blade.

Both responses have mentioned the Advantage. I've never even seen one, but how does it compare to the Rapidfire?

Saw the Blackwater on this site in a few posts and am intrigued by it. Savage River is about 3 hours from my house.

Appreciate you all discussing your experiences with these canoes.
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(1963)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/17/2019 03:13PM
I own an Advantage and have tripped in it since 87. Am hoping to own a Blackwater in the future, but the future keeps getting farther away. Blackwater is a little quicker than the Advantage and a bit more seaworthy. Heavier on the wallet, lighter on the shoulders. Advantage is 16'6", narrow with relatively low gunwale height. Paddles straight and quick. A bit finicky when still but quite steady when underway. Like a bicycle- the faster it goes the steadier she becomes. Decently seaworthy heading into or with the waves, not so much when running parallel to the troughs. Magic a bit better in the rough but noticeably lags when pushed- still one of the all time great solo hulls (Magic) offering terrific compromises in speed, seaworthiness and all around handling. Placid designs really shine with low seating and double blade.
 
mr.barley
distinguished member(7170)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/17/2019 11:37PM
Ok, I'll jump on the Advantage bandwagon too. I've had 2 Advantages over than years and it's still my favorite solo to paddle. Good all around canoe. They have a nice glide.
 
KarlBAndersen1
distinguished member(1075)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/18/2019 06:41AM
You mentioned fishing which, when doing so, is nice to have a bit of stability.
I got my first Wilderness last year and I hope I'm still paddling it a decade from now.
 
09/18/2019 07:56AM
"Both responses have mentioned the Advantage. I've never even seen one, but how does it compare to the Rapidfire?"

Have not been in any Placid canoes but it looks much closer to the Shadow and Savage Blackwater. Wider at the waterline by 1/2 foot or so, flat 0 rocker, a wider bulge/tumblehome low on the hull, real close to the Blackwater just 1/2 foot shorter and without the nose bulge. Initially moulded as a C1 racer, upgraded with more shear and flotation tanks. Piragis listing


May be the amount of time I have spent in solos but tenderness/stability is something I seldom consider. I feel time in the canoe, on the water, quickly changes a paddlers conception of stability. Have regularly paddled in groups with Magics and actually felt the Advantage better handling winds/waves. Again maybe something with me. I have basically an instinctive paddling style not technical, making changes may be more natural.
Far as fishing from it I normally fly-cast and have brought several 40 inch+ northern pike in along with lots of other species.

If I lived close to Savage River I'd be paddling a Blackwater now instead of the Advantage.

butthead
 
kbobb
member (7)member
 
09/19/2019 04:52PM
butthead: ""Both responses have mentioned the Advantage. I've never even seen one, but how does it compare to the Rapidfire?"


Have not been in any Placid canoes but it looks much closer to the Shadow and Savage Blackwater. Wider at the waterline by 1/2 foot or so, flat 0 rocker, a wider bulge/tumblehome low on the hull, real close to the Blackwater just 1/2 foot shorter and without the nose bulge. Initially moulded as a C1 racer, upgraded with more shear and flotation tanks. Piragis listing



May be the amount of time I have spent in solos but tenderness/stability is something I seldom consider. I feel time in the canoe, on the water, quickly changes a paddlers conception of stability. Have regularly paddled in groups with Magics and actually felt the Advantage better handling winds/waves. Again maybe something with me. I have basically an instinctive paddling style not technical, making changes may be more natural.
Far as fishing from it I normally fly-cast and have brought several 40 inch+ northern pike in along with lots of other species.

If I lived close to Savage River I'd be paddling a Blackwater now instead of the Advantage.


butthead"


the only hesitation about the blackwater is the $4K. the placid boats seat is raised a little off the bottom - it is pack canoe seating. the elevated seats in the advantage/blackwater, etc may be a little easier on my bum hip.

Do you guys paddle your advantages with a double blade often?
 
justpaddlin
distinguished member (217)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/19/2019 05:00PM
I'm really curious to know what you guys interested in the Blackwater would actually order. When I go to their site it looks like they offer 21 different lay-ups and three different packages (so 63 variations) plus options.
 
09/19/2019 07:48PM
"Do you guys paddle your advantages with a double blade often?"
Never doubles, they make for hairy palms.

On a less contentious vein, I prefer single blades. 15 degree bent 48inch 8 inch blade width Zav Light, and a 50 inch straight 8 1/2 wide Zav light.

butthead
 
cyclones30
distinguished member(1767)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/19/2019 10:17PM
I've been lucky enough to borrow an Advantage this summer, first and only solo I've ever paddled so take that for what it's worth.

I've timed myself using a kayak paddle and carbon canoe paddle, I'm slightly faster with kayak and less fatigued. (Probably just my technique?) It does well with a double blade. I'm 6' and have used anything from 220-240cm
 
09/20/2019 07:17AM
I usually paddle my Advantage with a single blade. I have much more experience with and single blade and feel more comfortable with Sit and switch style of paddling. With that being said, I will occasionally use my Werner Ovation double blade and it works great.
 
paddler1953
member (40)member
 
09/20/2019 09:48AM
In this discussion I can only speak to the Placid Boatworks "Rapidfire" & "Shadow" as I have both. Bottom line, I love both but use them for very different purposes. The "Shadow" is my go-to workout canoe but I'm not sure I'd use it on an extended trip. For me, that's where the "Rapidfire" shines. While you didn't mention it, I know my dog and I would never fit comfortably together in the "Shadow" and yes, the initial stability is no where near as comfortable as what you'll find in the "Rapidfire." Not sure where I read this (might have been the Placid Boatworks website) but the design of the "Shadow" is more like a sea kayak and was developed so they could use it in the Adirondack 90 Miler race that occurs each September. So if you're looking for something that performs like a good sea kayak, without the deck, the "Shadow" might be what you're looking for.

One last thing...not sure how big you are but I'm only about 5'8" but weigh in around 210 pounds. I feel a bit more pinched in the "Shadow" than the "Rapidfire" if that matters at all.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper

PS - I paddle both of these canoes almost exclusively with a single bladed bent shaft paddle (only 10 degree) but carry a double blade as my back-up.
 
kbobb
member (7)member
 
09/22/2019 03:25PM
paddler1953: "In this discussion I can only speak to the Placid Boatworks "Rapidfire" & "Shadow" as I have both. Bottom line, I love both but use them for very different purposes. The "Shadow" is my go-to workout canoe but I'm not sure I'd use it on an extended trip. For me, that's where the "Rapidfire" shines. While you didn't mention it, I know my dog and I would never fit comfortably together in the "Shadow" and yes, the initial stability is no where near as comfortable as what you'll find in the "Rapidfire." Not sure where I read this (might have been the Placid Boatworks website) but the design of the "Shadow" is more like a sea kayak and was developed so they could use it in the Adirondack 90 Miler race that occurs each September. So if you're looking for something that performs like a good sea kayak, without the deck, the "Shadow" might be what you're looking for.


One last thing...not sure how big you are but I'm only about 5'8" but weigh in around 210 pounds. I feel a bit more pinched in the "Shadow" than the "Rapidfire" if that matters at all.


That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.


snapper

PS - I paddle both of these canoes almost exclusively with a single bladed bent shaft paddle (only 10 degree) but carry a double blade as my back-up."


Thanks - that is my impression as well - the shadow is the "race boat" and the rapidfire a more allaround boat. I would be happiest with a rapidfire for my purposes.

please tell me if you find the rapidfire comfortable after 3 hrs or so in the boat? I could not sit in a kayak that long but a standard canoe is OK for 3 hr. i demoed the rapidfire for 20 min or so but wondering how butt/legs/hips would feel after 3 hr?
 
kbobb
member (7)member
 
09/22/2019 03:28PM
justpaddlin: "I'm really curious to know what you guys interested in the Blackwater would actually order. When I go to their site it looks like they offer 21 different lay-ups and three different packages (so 63 variations) plus options. "

if i opt for the blackwater the standard carbon/kev would be just fine for me without any options at this point.
 
paddler1953
member (40)member
 
09/23/2019 09:47AM
kbobb - So far I've only been in my "Rapidfire" for two hours but I've been in there with my dog and she likes to lay down between my legs; which takes up a lot of room (LOL)! Bottom line, I haven't had any difficulties in the canoe. Also, for what it's worth, I had a total knee replacement of my right knee about 10 years ago. That has made being in some boats difficulty at times. So far with the "Rapidfire," no issues have come up so hopefully you'll find it comfortable in the long run as well.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper
 
RoundRiver
distinguished member (343)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/29/2019 10:15PM
I really like my Wenonah Wilderness. Very good initial stability. Good volume. Good length (not too long or short). Some rocker. Good depth throughout if the waves pick up. Paddles good with good glide. Only issue was the noisy adjustable seat. Solved that by finding a seat height I liked and changing the bolts to fully threaded ones and tightening them up.

I test paddled a Northstar Phoenix, Northstar Northwood Solo, and Swift Prospector 14 and liked them all. But in the end the Wilderness had the highest number of the properties I wanted.

I also have a Nova Craft Pal which is an incredible “almost do it all in one boat” option. It is fantastic for fishing (its my primary fishing boat - even on Lake Superior on occasion). It is a decent solo tripping boat on trips that are not very long. Great boat for just paddling around - lake or river. Easy to lean slightly. Very stable. I love it.
 
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