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TechnoScout
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09/21/2019 07:40AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Just got back from BWCA. This time I used a 3x mechanical advantage pulley system instead of the 2X variety I had been using. Here are a couple of pictures. We were lucky to have a really fine tree with the associated limb. Otherwise, there would have been a rope going tree-to-tree with loops for attaching the pulleys.

I use Amsteel Blue rope and Niteize Camjam XT cord tightner to pull the rope and latch on each pull.


 
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seamusknives
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09/21/2019 08:12AM  


That definitely looks like a deluxe rig. I decided to go with a simple system for our blue barrel with materials I already had ; two 50' pieces of 1250 lb. rated mule tape, one carabiner and an old, small bike saddle bag to fill with small stones. I liked the idea of only needing one tree with 16' high branch to be able to hoist quickly and easily. I'm sure my neighbors were wondering what I was up to when I tried the rig out at home.
 
wingnut
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09/21/2019 08:13AM  
What do you use for a throw bag to get your lines up onto the tree limbs.
 
TechnoScout
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09/21/2019 08:38AM  
wingnut: " What do you use for a throw bag to get your lines up onto the tree limbs. "


This year I used a nylon string with a deep-sea fishing weight (maybe a quarter pound in weight). It only took two throws, although the first one nearly took out my buddy...LOL
 
TechnoScout
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09/21/2019 08:40AM  
I will post a picture of all the pieces once UPS brings them back to me (should arrive on Tuesday).
 
TechnoScout
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09/21/2019 09:09AM  
TechnoScout: "I will post a picture of all the pieces once UPS brings them back to me (should arrive on Tuesday)."


Here is a video we did last year using the same components but it is the 2X system
2X Bear Bag system
 
09/21/2019 09:23AM  
So intricate. I hung my food pack one time and that would have made it a lot easier lol. Instead I grabbed the pack and threw it in the air as high as possible while my brother pulled the rope. Then we both pulled the rope as hard as possible.
 
DownStrm
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09/21/2019 01:22PM  
It looks like it will do double duty as a Z-drag if your canoe gets pinned in the rapids. It would need stronger rope, of course.
 
TechnoScout
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09/21/2019 01:46PM  
DownStrm: "It looks like it will do double duty as a Z-drag if your canoe gets pinned in the rapids. It would need stronger rope, of course."

That rope I use is 1400 lb tensile strength. Maybe that is not enough...dunno...
 
DownStrm
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09/21/2019 08:59PM  
I stand corrected.
 
TechnoScout
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09/26/2019 09:36AM  
My gear that I shipped back home from BWCA finally arrived (was stuck for four days in Fort Worth...was a bit worried).

Here are the hardware components of my bear bag pulley system.
 
09/26/2019 10:26AM  
Wow. Serious gear. My only suggestion would be to store it all in a small nylon stuff sack, ditch the fishing weight and use an available rock encased in said nylon stuff sack.
 
TechnoScout
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09/26/2019 10:40AM  
Banksiana: "Wow. Serious gear. My only suggestion would be to store it all in a small nylon stuff sack, ditch the fishing weight and use an available rock encased in said nylon stuff sack."


I do exactly that (nylon stuff sack).
I have always used a rock in the past. This last trip I used the fishing weight. I may return to the rock solution on my next trip...dunno yet.
 
Tomcat
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09/27/2019 11:39AM  
 
TechnoScout
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09/27/2019 01:35PM  
Tomcat: "

In military radioman sometimes used slingshot with small reel attached to shoot a line over tall objects to suspend antennas for long range communication. This was before satellite communications. I remember the first time we used a 5 watt radio and satellite antenna to communicate from a remote island in Africa to base in the United States. Unlike modern satcom we had to unfold the antenna then aim it to a designated bearing and look angle. Still it was easier, quicker, and more reliable than trying to bounce a radio wave around the world."


Very cool! Thanks for sharing
 
MagicPaddler
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09/28/2019 06:53AM  


https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=ronstan-series-15-mm-ball-bearing-utility-block&path=-1|118|2358452|2358471&id=4038920
Sailboat hardware works well
 
TechnoScout
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09/28/2019 08:06AM  
MagicPaddler: "


Sailboat hardware works well"


I like these...works better for smaller diameter rope. Not as much load bearing but good enough.
 
GearGuy
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09/29/2019 03:01AM  
https://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=1163800&forumID=12&confID=1
 
jewp
member (25)member
  
03/26/2020 02:52PM  
I know this is a quasi old thread, but I assume people like me still read old threads so I'll add in.

I bought and used a "pack-a-pull" setup for paracord, you could use whatever small diameter cord you want. It's not super cheap, but it is small and worked great. I have no affiliation with them, just wanted a small lightweight block and tackle set for our food bag. We rigged it up with two independent lines since we had two packs, one cooler and one large food pack for a group of 8. The packs were *heavy*, and it was no problem at all. We could raise/lower them independently.

I used zing-it as the main line across two trees (almost no stretch), and the pulley system in the middle with paracord (which does stretch but it didn't matter). No complaints. We did find it helped to put some tape on the pulley's once you installed them so they couldn't open up, but it was easy to hoist the bags, I think each line was 2x mechanical advantage. You could also double it (4x) with a single line set-up. I'm very happy with it.

https://packapull.com/
 
TechnoScout
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03/26/2020 05:35PM  
jewp: "I know this is a quasi old thread, but I assume people like me still read old threads so I'll add in.


I bought and used a "pack-a-pull" setup for paracord, you could use whatever small diameter cord you want. It's not super cheap, but it is small and worked great. I have no affiliation with them, just wanted a small lightweight block and tackle set for our food bag. We rigged it up with two independent lines since we had two packs, one cooler and one large food pack for a group of 8. The packs were *heavy*, and it was no problem at all. We could raise/lower them independently.


I used zing-it as the main line across two trees (almost no stretch), and the pulley system in the middle with paracord (which does stretch but it didn't matter). No complaints. We did find it helped to put some tape on the pulley's once you installed them so they couldn't open up, but it was easy to hoist the bags, I think each line was 2x mechanical advantage. You could also double it (4x) with a single line set-up. I'm very happy with it.


https://packapull.com/
"

Interesting system. I love the weight, but not fond of the single dual-pulley thingy.

Thanks for sharing
 
mutz
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03/26/2020 07:50PM  
I wish I still had the video of four of us trying to hang our first food pack in the BWCA. Actually three hanging one filming, I’m really surprised we survived that fiasco. It was kind of like an episode of hold my beer I can do this.
 
TechnoScout
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03/27/2020 07:14AM  
mutz: "I wish I still had the video of four of us trying to hang our first food pack in the BWCA. Actually three hanging one filming, I’m really surprised we survived that fiasco. It was kind of like an episode of hold my beer I can do this."

Indeed!
So many fond memories of bear-bag hanging. In particular, watching scouts do it.
 
03/27/2020 08:29AM  
I use these with paracord. Work great but you need gloves for sure.
 
TechnoScout
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03/27/2020 08:45AM  
AmarilloJim: "I use these with paracord. Work great but you need gloves for sure."

Nice. Only 1/2 ounce. My pulleys are 2.1 ounces. Now I have to ponder if I want to reconfigure my system!
 
Blackdogyak
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10/14/2021 06:10AM  
TechnoScout: "My gear that I shipped back home from BWCA finally arrived (was stuck for four days in Fort Worth...was a bit worried).


Here are the hardware components of my bear bag pulley system. "


I would love to see a simple diagram of how this works. I couldn't understand from the video.

Those darn pulleys are around $40 EACH at REI.

Seems like REI has just become a top dollar store for Hedge Fund Managers. I remember when they were a good coop for climbers to buy gear.
 
MReid
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10/14/2021 07:14AM  
Blackdogyak: "Those darn pulleys are around $40 EACH at REI.
Seems like REI has just become a top dollar store for Hedge Fund Managers. I remember when they were a good coop for climbers to buy gear."

That's because they're made for climbers, and are way over capacity for food storage. I guess REI is, in fact, "a good coop for climbers to buy gear", and maybe not a good coop for canoeists to buy basic hardware store pulleys.
 
10/14/2021 05:08PM  
My setup:

Amsteel Blue 1/8 inch rope, two pieces about 60-80 ft each plus a piece about 10 ft that is used to make a loop to string through all the straps and handles.

Pulleys and clips are relatively light weight (< 7 oz total). They are more than adequate for hanging food packs (pulleys breaking strength rate > 1000 lb). Pulleys are for rigging sails from Viadana. The pictures shows the hardware; pulleys are a fiddle (double) and a single with a becket, both size 25mm. Purchased on Amazon, $25 for both pulleys.

I use a small old tent stake bag filled with a couple rocks to get the line (Zing-it or the Amsteel hanging rope) over the branch.

With this system I can hang two full food packs (80-100 lb total) on a single line, though I’ve only done that on one trip. Typically I hang one food pack. The hardest part is finding a good tree for hanging the pack.

The entire set up, two pulleys, four clips, ropes, zing-it line, small bag for rocks, and the storage bag weighs just under 18 oz.

This setup give a 3:1 mechanical advantage.


 
TacoOverland
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10/14/2021 05:17PM  
MReid: "
Blackdogyak: "Those darn pulleys are around $40 EACH at REI.
Seems like REI has just become a top dollar store for Hedge Fund Managers. I remember when they were a good coop for climbers to buy gear."

That's because they're made for climbers, and are way over capacity for food storage. I guess REI is, in fact, "a good coop for climbers to buy gear", and maybe not a good coop for canoeists to buy basic hardware store pulleys."


I’m thinking you don’t t need life safety level climbing gear to hang a food pack.
 
Blackdogyak
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10/14/2021 06:09PM  
plander: "My setup:


Amsteel Blue 1/8 inch rope, two pieces about 60-80 ft each plus a piece about 10 ft that is used to make a loop to string through all the straps and handles.


Pulleys and clips are relatively light weight (< 7 oz total). They are more than adequate for hanging food packs (pulleys breaking strength rate > 1000 lb). Pulleys are for rigging sails from Viadana. The pictures shows the hardware; pulleys are a fiddle (double) and a single with a becket, both size 25mm. Purchased on Amazon, $25 for both pulleys.


I use a small old tent stake bag filled with a couple rocks to get the line (Zing-it or the Amsteel hanging rope) over the branch.


With this system I can hang two full food packs (80-100 lb total) on a single line, though I’ve only done that on one trip. Typically I hang one food pack. The hardest part is finding a good tree for hanging the pack.


The entire set up, two pulleys, four clips, ropes, zing-it line, small bag for rocks, and the storage bag weighs just under 18 oz.


This setup give a 3:1 mechanical advantage.



"


Planser....thanks.....I don't understand how the pulleys are rigged.
 
Blackdogyak
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10/14/2021 06:10PM  
TacoOverland: "
MReid: "
Blackdogyak: "Those darn pulleys are around $40 EACH at REI.
Seems like REI has just become a top dollar store for Hedge Fund Managers. I remember when they were a good coop for climbers to buy gear."

That's because they're made for climbers, and are way over capacity for food storage. I guess REI is, in fact, "a good coop for climbers to buy gear", and maybe not a good coop for canoeists to buy basic hardware store pulleys."



I’m thinking you don’t t need life safety level climbing gear to hang a food pack. "


Well I have had such frustration actually trying to accomplish this with a 40.pound food pack that I'm willing to entertain ANY ideas.
It's WAY more difficult than anybody's cute YouTube video makes is appear.
 
10/15/2021 07:48AM  
Rigging it up looks something like this.



With this system, a line should be tied between pulleys B and C so that when you hoist this system into the air, it makes a triangle between the two pulleys and the weight below them.

I "borrowed" this photo from another site but it demonstrates that you can get a lot of weight up in the air with this setup. YMMV:

 
10/15/2021 10:38AM  
My bearbag system consists of three 50' lengths of 550# parachute cord and two Everlast #70 pulleys , and two UST carabiners rated at 60# safe working load. In its mesh bag the system weighs around half a pound. I use a three-rope setup: a rope over a limb at least 15' off the ground, a second rope over a limb (similar height) of a second tree with at least 25' between trees. Connect the "limb" ropes and the "load" rope, then set up the "load" rope with a two-to-one pulley configuration. Raise the UNLOADED system via each of the "limb" ropes keeping the three-line connection centered between the trees and keeping the lower pulley at ground level. Tie off the "limb" lines, hook your food bags to the lower pulley, lift them into position, and tie off the "load" line. Much easier to do than to verbally describe...

TZ



 
10/15/2021 04:23PM  
Blackdogyak: "
TechnoScout: "My gear that I shipped back home from BWCA finally arrived (was stuck for four days in Fort Worth...was a bit worried).



Here are the hardware components of my bear bag pulley system. "



I would love to see a simple diagram of how this works. I couldn't understand from the video.


Those darn pulleys are around $40 EACH at REI.


Seems like REI has just become a top dollar store for Hedge Fund Managers. I remember when they were a good coop for climbers to buy gear."


Hate to say it, but look on Amazon. There are some decent "climbing-looking" pulleys, off-brand and probably made in China, that are about $10. I would not trust myself or my gear if climbing El Cap, but more than good enough for a bear bag. There are also much smaller, lighter 12 KN carabiners with wire gates - cheaper and lighter than the ones shown but again more than needed for this.
 
StLouisPaddler
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10/18/2021 10:32AM  
I also use the pack-a-pull pulley system. It gives up to a 4:1 mechanical advantage, which I appreciate on day one of the trip with food for three guys for a week. I hang with the clothesline method because it seems like I can never find one tree with a decent branch. If you’re not familiar, you string a long line between two trees (which forms the horizontal “clothesline”) and then the pulley is tied in the middle of that line. For the clothesline, I use 100 feet of Lawson Ironwire. It’s lightweight, low stretch, knots and unknots better than amsteel, and has a higher strength rating than standard paracord. The downside of a 4:1 pulley system is that you need a relatively long rope connecting the pulleys to the food bag because it goes back and forth between the clothesline and the pulleys four times. Since the two bottom pulleys start on the ground and the pulleys on the clothesline are suspended 15-20 feet in the air, I’ve found 75 feet for the bag line is about right to get it high, but I’ve made it work with 50 feet and in a lot of sites there just aren’t good enough trees to get it as high as the rangers would like. For the food bag line, I’ve used Lawson Bear rope in the past but will probably use 7/64 amsteel blue on my next trip. I would use the ironwire except that at 2mm it’s a little too small diameter for the pulleys used in the pack-a-pull. Like everything else I’ve learned for my trips, my Bear bag system has been taken from ideas I got from reading the posts of people here who, unlike me, actually know what they are talking about.
 
DMan5501
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10/18/2021 01:04PM  
I too discovered Pack-A-Pull this year and it worked flawlessly... Didn't tell my mates just pulled it out and hung our 2 heavy food packs by myself... Then they each wanted to give it a try... Awesome super lightweight system

 
10/18/2021 01:43PM  
Pack-A-Pull gear website.

TZ
 
StLouisPaddler
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10/18/2021 02:55PM  
DMan5501: "I too discovered Pack-A-Pull this year and it worked flawlessly... Didn't tell my mates just pulled it out and hung our 2 heavy food packs by myself... Then they each wanted to give it a try... Awesome super lightweight system


"


Totally agree. It’s only 4 oz and it just lives in my rope bag. It’s not an essential piece of gear by any means. But to me it’s one of those non-essential things that just make the trip more enjoyable. Hat tip to Jewp for mentioning it earlier in this thread.
 
11/04/2021 01:57PM  
Same as most, two pulleys, Amsteel rope, gloves. For throwing, my wife is a tennis player, so lots of old balls around. Best solution I came up with, is slit in ball, push end of rope thru to smaller slit on opposite side of bigger slit, tie off. Pinch bigger slit, add small stones to make the weight you like, fire away.

What I especially like about this thrower, is it is really snag proof, and if it does somehow get snagged, a real tug from the rope separates everything, and the ball just falls down, re rig, aim better, lol.
 
foxfireniner
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01/16/2022 09:33AM  
mutz: "I wish I still had the video of four of us trying to hang our first food pack in the BWCA. Actually three hanging one filming, I’m really surprised we survived that fiasco. It was kind of like an episode of hold my beer I can do this."


I did that too!

Once I found a branch strong enough to hold the bag, I was not strong enough to hoist it! I had my kids, my friend and his kid watching...pathetic.

Now I have a similar setup. Instead I use a double pulley on top, use the pulley to throw my 550 cord line over then lower it down to the ground. I wrap a 550 cord choker around the base of a tree and secure my pulley with a niteize figure 9 rope tightener.

I use real rock climbing pulleys because the tops separate. I attach a single pulley to my pack and assemble a larger 3/8 inch cord to the pulleys. I pull the double pulley up to the hanging branch then secure it with a truckers hitch knot in the biner part of the figure 9.

Then I get on my bigger cord and hoist up my food bag using the rope tightener features of the figure 9 and then cam it off. Super easy.

The whole rig cost maybe $75. I think back to all the times in my life where I looked like an idiot and estimate..."would I have paid $75 to avoid that?" In this case, yes.

 
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