I just returned from nine days of the Man Chain. This was my 15th Quetico trip and the second to the Man Chain. In a number of areas, I was really disappointed to see how little people try to practice "Leave No Trace". The worst was freshly cut branches off downed trees that extend in the lakes. Shorelines in areas were just tree trunks with every branch freshly cut off.

I have never needed a saw or axe in almost 20 years. There is so much wood available if people would just venture a bit into the bush to scrounge up dead fallen branches or paddle the shoreline to pick up driftwood resting on shore. If you must break off a dead branch, just break if off with your hands and leave it looking somewhat natural. If there is no wood at your site, paddle to another place and scrounge wood off the forest floor.

Ok - off my rant. The trip was awesome! Just would really like to see people "leave" "no" "trace". Don't get me started on those that feel they have to build structures.

We've been playing in Quetico for more than forty years. In those years we've seen a decline in tables, but about the same number of log benches in campsites. Most sites now have a few signs of hatchet and saw use, but fewer than we observed in the '80s.

A disturbing practice we found in two Quetico campsites during our 2019 visit was 'padding' for tents: a site on Agnes had moss pulled off nearby rocks and placed under a previous visitor's tent and a site on North Bay had cedar boughs similarly placed. The moss will take years to return to the areas where it was harvested--definitely not LNT. The boughs may have been taken from a storm-damaged cedar near the site's edge, but that's still not an LNT practice.

I'll continue to bring my small saw, however. We don't have fires that require anything larger than we can break by hand, but we frequently find portages in need of a little maintenance.

Glad to hear it was an awesome trip, (but isn't any Quetico visit?).

TZ

I fully understand what you are saying and mostly agree. It’s not the saws fault. It’s the person behind it. Most people here are responsible enough to know when to use a saw. I will always bring a saw and possibly a hatchet to split the dead and down wood. There are many good reasons to bring a saw or an axe.

A while back there was a publication “that will remain nameless” that the publisher showed pictures where he cut fresh pine branches to use as a floor in a winter tent. I’m thinking that was the case that you saw. They wanted a soft floor under their tent. If anyone should have known better it should have been him.

I was just hiking up in the “Lost 40” woods here in Minnesota. They never logged the area because of a survey mistake. 300-400 year old red and white pine towering to the sky. As we were walking someone pealed the bark off an old paper birch tree. It will soon die. My point is, even in a pristine woods of the lost 40 there will be stupid people.

I have also seen the shoreline stripped of branches up to about 8 feet. I’m thinking that was from a hungry moose or deer on the snowpack getting a meal.

Though I like to think I practice LNT, i disagree with you and this rule about cutting wood up that's dead wood. If it's dead, it's firewood. It may look pretty and while it's great if a dead fallen tree completes your wildly experience, it's still firewood. Fine line, but if it's dead, it's firewood. All this said, I collect all wood by hand before I go sawing branches of a dead-lake-tree, cause that's a LOT of work. But I wouldn't think twice about harvesting wood out of a lake if I couldn't find wood on my site or a nearby Portage.

I believe both parks want the dead trees in the water left alone for fish habitat.

Please make sure you are aware of the laws/rules of Quetico Park before you visit. I understand that it is easier to collect firewood from the shoreline as you are traveling or out fishing, but a little extra effort will leave Quetico looking more natural and enjoyable for all visitors. You are not supposed to remove any fallen trees (even if they are dead) from the shoreline as it does not follow LNT principles, but most importantly, because it is habitat for fish, turtles, etc.

Besides the portages and past history, for the most part, I believe anyone paddling down a lake is not suppose to see evidence that other people are there or have been there. Plenty of fallen down trees back in the woods. If you cant find any near your campsite there are many other places to look.

I once had to break out my saw on my way to the Beaverhouse parking lot as a fallen tree blocked the road.

The last thing this solo canoeist needs is to carry a bunch of metal in my pack.

I read a book where the author spent a lot of time in the far north. On a trip he came upon a campsite that he built on a previous trip 20 years earlier.The wood he cut with a saw and ax on the previous trip was still there and he then realized how long it actually takes for simple things like cut wood to be erased from the landscape.

Cutting dead branches from shorelines is not LNT

Tom

Good discussion! I think we only had 1 fire last year on our Quetico trip and it was all dead and down picked up off the ground stuff for that. Campsites hadn’t been used much in the previous years so finding stuff wasn’t a problem.

Saw is needed for occasional portage clearing. Shelly to Montgomery with the fire the previous year had trees still falling post fire. I think we had to cut 2 that had fallen across the new portage to get it clear again,

I generally don’t carry an axe because I’m worried we’d have an accident on trip with one.

Ryan

Uhhh, no. I bring a saw and axe on every trip.

Stumpy: "Uhhh, no. I bring a saw and axe on every trip."

Why do you think he’s called “Stumpy”? ;)

SummerSkin: "

Stumpy: "Uhhh, no. I bring a saw and Axe on every trip."

Why do you think he’s called “Stumpy”? ;)"

Good one! Nicer than what others may reason. ;)

50+ wilderness trips under my belt. I've probably spent more than a year of my life in canoe country on wilderness canoe trips. I'm absolutely 100% with you with regards to the ugliness of the unnatural cutting of logs for firewood along the shore of wilderness lakes. It's up there in the top 10 pet peeves along with littering pistachio nut shells and stripping birch bark on a live tree.

I always paddle away from camp and enter the woods well away from the shoreline to gather firewood. With all of this said I believe it is irresponsible to tell someone not to bring a saw. Even if you don't build campfires, there are certain emergency situations that could require a saw.

There have been numerous storms that have caused complete blowdowns to which the only way out was to saw your way through completely blocked portages. I personally rescued a family that capsized on a river and their canoe and gear was pinned against a strainer and the only way to extricate the canoe was to cut the limbs off of the downed tree. I can imagine numerous other emergency situations where a saw would be absolutely required to save a life.

Any responsible wilderness camper will have a saw in their pack even if just for emergency purposes. Instead of telling campers to leave the saw at home, let's be leaders and promote responsible firewood gathering techniques and the leave no trace philosophy.

HangLoose: "Any responsible wilderness camper will have a saw in their pack even if just for emergency purposes. Instead of telling campers to leave the saw at home, let's be leaders and promote responsible firewood gathering techniques and the leave no trace philosophy. "

Like my PLB, my first aid kit, and my raingear, a saw will be a part of the gear we carry but hope to leave in the pack the entire trip.

TZ

We've always carried a saw and used it to cut up downed wood that we found along the shore or in the woods. The saw will continue to go with us on every trip for cutting firewood to size.

HangLoose also makes many great points in his post above.

I do bring a compass and a first-aid kit. Both of those items have saved me from peril.
Tom

HangLoose: "50+ wilderness trips under my belt. I've probably spent more than a year of my life in canoe country on wilderness canoe trips. I'm absolutely 100% with you with regards to the ugliness of the unnatural cutting of logs for firewood along the shore of wilderness lakes. It's up there in the top 10 pet peeves along with littering pistachio nut shells and stripping birch bark on a live tree.

I always paddle away from camp and enter the woods well away from the shoreline to gather firewood. With all of this said I believe it is irresponsible to tell someone not to bring a saw. Even if you don't build campfires, there are certain emergency situations that could require a saw.

There have been numerous storms that have caused complete blowdowns to which the only way out was to saw your way through completely blocked portages. I personally rescued a family that capsized on a river and their canoe and gear was pinned against a strainer and the only way to extricate the canoe was to cut the limbs off of the downed tree. I can imagine numerous other emergency situations where a saw would be absolutely required to save a life.

Any responsible wilderness camper will have a saw in their pack even if just for emergency purposes. Instead of telling campers to leave the saw at home, let's be leaders and promote responsible firewood gathering techniques and the leave no trace philosophy. "

Agree with all this....and I have never cut wood from shore.....I have seen the really cool narrows on Jeff lake be made ugly by it.

If we are being honest with ourselves, the simple act of building a campfire inherently "leaves a trace" of our prior presence in that spot. Having a fire is just an intertwined part of the backcountry experience for most, so this violation of LNT is generally considered "acceptable".

I am definitely NOT criticizing or condemning anyone for building a campfire (so please don't light me up, so to speak), but we should be very cognizant that in higher traffic areas there can be dramatic impacts over time from groups continually harvesting wood and building fires. We have all seen areas where this is true...

I rarely make a fire while camping during summer or early fall anymore for a variety of reasons, but when I do, it's always with wood collected from the ground in areas that could not even be remotely seen from a campsite or the water (or seen from the trail when backpacking).

The saw in my pack is for emergency use.

To each his or her own, but I would never think of traveling in the north woods without an axe and saw.

CanoeKev: "To each his or her own, but I would never think of traveling in the north woods without an axe and saw. "

Agreed. If nothing else, I want to be capable of dealing with that log that has recently fallen across the portage. That's better than everybody going around it and making a "new" portage path.

SteveSoloPaddler, It's only a matter of time before you're accused of leaving no trace. I don't know you nor your habits but I'm sure when you leave a campsite you leave a trace in some fashion that some future overly-sensitive camper will decry. Maybe one day it's considered out of fashion to leave wood for the next camper or it's a major faux pas to leave anchor rocks around your abandoned tent pad. If those examples sound picayune to you then you'll better understand the reaction you're receiving here.

There were so many foul practices in the seventies when I first began canoe tripping. I don't know when LNT became de rigueur but I'm sure it's decades old. And I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts the folks who initially conceived it did not envision campers in the 2020s would be admonished for the practice of cutting deadfall.