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Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/06/2020 10:23AM
Hoping the knowledge base here can help be identify the brown solo in the picture. I was told it is about 25 years old. The tractor seat and foam stiffener arrangement make me think Wenonah. If the wall studs are 16" on center, it puts this solo over 17'. Voyager? Encounter?
 
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01/06/2020 04:54PM
Definitely a Wenonah. That tumblehome makes me think it's an Advantage . The Advantage is 16.5 feet. It looks a little wide for an Advantage, but maybe it's just me.
 
MReid
distinguished member (177)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/06/2020 06:12PM
It should have a name and serial number (last two digits are year of manufacture) on a plate at the stern. I'm thinking Encounter, but I don’t know when they started making them. Agree, seems wide for an Advantage.
 
RedLakePaddler
member (17)member
 
01/06/2020 09:08PM
I am thinking it’s a Voyager. If the stud are 16” it puts it over 17’. Also the the bow on my Encounter is more rounded. The entry line viewed from the top are sharper than mine.
 
DownStrm
distinguished member (158)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/07/2020 01:58AM
Is that a 14' Bell Wildfire below it? I'm having a hard time reading the name. If not, the Starfire is 13' and the Flashfire is 15'. If it is the Wildfire, then I think the top boat is 16.5' and the studs are not 16" on center.
This picture is my Advantage in the cheaper Tufweave layup. Compare the space between the gunnels and the seat in both boats. In the original picture, the picture angle of the exterior tumble home makes the boat look wider than it is.
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/07/2020 07:32AM
Turns out it is an Advantage. I picked it up last night for $350....UL Kevlar layup, 29lbs as it sits. It will need the wooden gunwales replaced and a good cleaning before a coat of epoxy. The hull is in great shape, very little wear on the foot of the stems. any idea about the hull number? I though all Wenonahs started with MFP? Thanks for the help!
 
01/07/2020 08:00AM
You got a great deal. With some TLC it will l as good as new. You'll love it . Had I seen the side view I would have said definitely an Advantage. I'm on my 3rd one
 
thebotanyguy
distinguished member(758)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/07/2020 02:22PM
Beast388: " any idea about the hull number? I though all Wenonahs started with MFP? Thanks for the help! "

You are correct, Wenonah serial numbers begin with MFP. It was probably painted on the hull plate in front of the etched numbers, but wore off over time. When you register the boat, the correct hull ID number will be MFP DK185I484.
 
01/07/2020 03:41PM
Sure looks like a Voyager at 17.5 ft. Lots of tumblehome and core construction.

PJ's Voyager 2005 Adam's Lake

Then again my Advantage is looks like a Voyager from the top,

The stern makes the best visual point of difference,


butthead
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/07/2020 04:00PM
butthead: "Sure looks like a Voyager at 17.5 ft. Lots of tumblehome and core construction.

PJ's Voyager 2005 Adam's Lake

butthead "


I thought it was over 17' based on the picture....but a tape measure confirms it is 16.5'. I hade to remove part of the previous owner installed gunwales to see the engraved "Advantage" on the ID plate.

I find it interesting that there are no flotation chambers on this canoe. I will probably add them in the refurbish.....
 
01/07/2020 04:40PM
Beast388: "butthead: "Sure looks like a Voyager at 17.5 ft. Lots of tumblehome and core construction.

PJ's Voyager 2005 Adam's Lake


butthead "



I thought it was over 17' based on the picture....but a tape measure confirms it is 16.5'. I hade to remove part of the previous owner installed gunwales to see the engraved "Advantage" on the ID plate.


I find it interesting that there are no flotation chambers on this canoe. I will probably add them in the refurbish....."


Originally derived from a C1 race canoe, the tanks and free-board have changed some with other stuff but the hull design has stayed the same.

butthead
 
01/07/2020 05:36PM
butthead: "Sure looks like a Voyager at 17.5 ft. Lots of tumblehome and core construction.

PJ's Voyager 2005 Adam's Lake

Then again my Advantage is looks like a Voyager from the top,

The stern makes the best visual point of difference,


butthead"
What's that attached to your footbrace? GPS holder?
 
01/07/2020 06:49PM
Blatz: "

butthead"

What's that attached to your footbrace? GPS holder?"

Yes a RamX Garmin 62st GPS holder.

butthead
 
DownStrm
distinguished member (158)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/07/2020 10:39PM
Has anyone ever seen an Advantage set up for kneeling with a bench seat or kneeling thwart? I mainly use mine for short workouts after work on a nearby lake. Paddling from the tractor seat doesn't seem natural, yet, but I like the boat.
 
01/08/2020 07:59AM
butthead: "Blatz: "

butthead"

What's that attached to your footbrace? GPS holder?"

Yes a RamX Garmin 62st GPS holder.

butthead"

Yea that's where I put my old etrex. I have a bicycle handle bar mount for it and it fits perfect on the footbrace. My mount isn't as robust though.
 
MReid
distinguished member (177)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/08/2020 11:05AM
DownStrm: "Has anyone ever seen an Advantage set up for kneeling with a bench seat or kneeling thwart? I mainly use mine for short workouts after work on a nearby lake. Paddling from the tractor seat doesn't seem natural, yet, but I like the boat."

Obviously, the boat is designed for sit and switch, and for a workout, I'd think that method would be way better than kneeling (unless you're doing the Olympic high kneel!). You may be able to kneel around the existing seat--I have an old Wenonah (C1W) that will allow that for whitewater, but I think it has a smaller seat. I haven't tried it in my more modern Wenonahs. Before you look to change out the seats, spend some time sitting--if you get used to it, it is great for workouts and just covering ground--I've been a sit and switcher for almost 40 years. And it can be quite stable. It is a different style, and it may not be for you--but that's what the boat was designed for.
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(2035)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/08/2020 12:22PM
DownStrm: "Has anyone ever seen an Advantage set up for kneeling with a bench seat or kneeling thwart? I mainly use mine for short workouts after work on a nearby lake. Paddling from the tractor seat doesn't seem natural, yet, but I like the boat."

What Mreid said and use a properly sized bent shaft paddle. If the shaft is too long it makes the paddling motion less natural.
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/08/2020 04:12PM
So, I take a trip to the BWCA every June. If I get this Advantage fixed up by then (hopefully well before so I can practice with it), how well should it work for me on the trip?

By June, I should weigh around 220-230lbs, and I'll have a week's worth of gear. I'll be with 8 others (3 tandem canoes) so the group's food for the week is divided into 3 Granite Gear food bags....so, my personal gear and one food bag.
 
01/08/2020 05:53PM
It's hard to tell by the photos, but is there dry rot or something else that is necessitating the gunwale replacement? Cuz, other than a little dry, from the photos it doesn't look like there's anything wrong with them.....
 
MReid
distinguished member (177)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/08/2020 06:13PM
From the one photo posted, there's no way we can evaluate what needs to be done. Are the gunnels cracked? Or do they just need refinishing. Does the hull need patches? Etc. etc. If just refinishing, that only takes a few hours. If the boat is actually sound (reliable), then if you're pushed for time between making it pretty and getting out and paddle, I'd go for the paddling, especially if this is a new type of canoe for you (straight/J stroke vs bent/sit and switch). Also, time spent in a canoe is added to your life more quickly than working on canoes. Advantages are really nice cruisers, so if you develop some good technique, you should be able to keep up with tandems for the most part unless they're pretty finely tuned paddlers and just want to go.

Regarding the weight capacity, I don't seen any problem with that much weight, although I weigh less and pack pretty light. Butthead would have a much better perspective, as he's spent a lot of time in his Advantage.

It's a nice boat, and rewards good paddlers.
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/08/2020 09:13PM
mirth: "It's hard to tell by the photos, but is there dry rot or something else that is necessitating the gunwale replacement? Cuz, other than a little dry, from the photos it doesn't look like there's anything wrong with them....."

I've seen plenty of pictures on the 'net showing Advantages with inwales but no outwales. My hunch is that this one was the same and someone added outwales. The wood strip has sharp corners and is not contoured. Also, as you can see in the picture in the original post, this was sitting on 2X4s sticking out from the garage wall. Near the bow, the inwale is split right where it sat on that 2X4. There are machine screws that pass through the gunwales with nuts on the inside....not a fan of that.

Not sure how long this sat in that garage, but I would guess a decade or more. I thought the brown color was from paint. Luckily it was just dusty & dirty.
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/08/2020 09:24PM
MReid: "From the one photo posted, there's no way we can evaluate what needs to be done. Are the gunnels cracked? Or do they just need refinishing. Does the hull need patches? Etc. etc. If just refinishing, that only takes a few hours. If the boat is actually sound (reliable), then if you're pushed for time between making it pretty and getting out and paddle, I'd go for the paddling, especially if this is a new type of canoe for you (straight/J stroke vs bent/sit and switch). Also, time spent in a canoe is added to your life more quickly than working on canoes. Advantages are really nice cruisers, so if you develop some good technique, you should be able to keep up with tandems for the most part unless they're pretty finely tuned paddlers and just want to go.


Regarding the weight capacity, I don't seen any problem with that much weight, although I weigh less and pack pretty light. Butthead would have a much better perspective, as he's spent a lot of time in his Advantage.


It's a nice boat, and rewards good paddlers."


This refurb should amount to gunwale replacement, a pressure wash, light sand, and a coat or two of epoxy. Once its warm enough, I'll get moving on it. I built my own epoxy infused kevlar 18.5' tandem a couple of years ago so this should be pretty easy.

Admittedly, this is my first solo...so I look forward to learning.
 
01/08/2020 09:27PM
I'm 210lbs and this is my gear and Advantage for a 5 day trip I did last year
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(2035)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/09/2020 11:20AM
Beast388: "
This refurb should amount to gunwale replacement, a pressure wash, light sand, and a coat or two of epoxy. Once its warm enough, I'll get moving on it. I built my own epoxy infused kevlar 18.5' tandem a couple of years ago so this should be pretty easy.


Admittedly, this is my first solo...so I look forward to learning."



I would skip the epoxy unless it is really scraped and scarred (lots of exposed cloth, deep gouges that have torn cloth). If you want it to look pretty a very light sand and spar varnish- a cosmetic repair. Epoxy will add significant weight and is difficult to accomplish a lasting bond without meticulous attention to detail (properly roughed surface over every micron of skin coat or it will micro peel in a year or two).
I've tripped far and often in an Advantage since 86. No problems for the load you mention. Spend lots of time in the canoe before the trip. It will feel a little squirrelly when you start, very stable under way; the faster you go the more stable she rides.

If you can set it up with just inwales I think that is the finest looking and most practical option.
 
01/09/2020 05:31PM
I bet the OP's Advantage is a fairly early version, closer to it's C1 heritage without tanks and abbreviated gunwales. The wood on my Advantage is quite good looking with contrasting outer center and inner treatment a good fitting contrasting outer screw plugs.

The all wood trim did add some pounds up to 35 but sure looks and feels good. Simpler and lighter aluminum is available.

butthead
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/09/2020 07:37PM
I took “advantage” of the rare 50*F January day and washed off all the grime and snapped a few more pics.
 
kona
distinguished member (178)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/09/2020 09:14PM
Great find. Congrats! Any chance that bell canoe
Pictured below might be for sale? It looks dusty too, so figured I’d ask.

 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/09/2020 10:04PM
kona: "Great find. Congrats! Any chance that bell canoe
Pictured below might be for sale? It looks dusty too, so figured I’d ask.


"


It is...located in Dixon, Illinois. If you’re interested I can give you the phone number of the seller. I think they were asking $700.
 
kona
distinguished member (178)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/09/2020 10:31PM
Thanks I will shoot you an email to take you up on that offer.
 
jdmccurry
member (42)member
 
01/19/2020 01:12PM
butthead: "Sure looks like a Voyager at 17.5 ft. Lots of tumblehome and core construction.

PJ's Voyager 2005 Adam's Lake

Then again my Advantage is looks like a Voyager from the top,

The stern makes the best visual point of difference,


butthead"

Off topic, but I was interested in your hoist system. It looks like the canoe is suspended by attachments to the seat. Can you describe it in more detail?
 
01/19/2020 02:10PM

Not a hoist but rigged to scale to show as is weight.

For storage one ehd sits on 2x4 frame other on a trapeeze from overhead. Clothes were just treated with permethrin and hung up to dry.

butthead
 
jdmccurry
member (42)member
 
01/19/2020 03:16PM
Does Wenonah still offer the Advantage? It's not on the website, but I seem to recall they will make one on a special order. What do they position as the replacement, the Prism or perhaps Voyager?
 
01/19/2020 04:44PM
jdmccurry: "Does Wenonah still offer the Advantage? It's not on the website, but I seem to recall they will make one on a special order. What do they position as the replacement, the Prism or perhaps Voyager? " Yes you can. They've kept the molds. I bought mine last year. Another one not on their website that's worth a look is the Jensen 18 tandem.
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(2035)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/19/2020 07:46PM
Piragis in Ely almost always as a couple of Advantages available.
 
01/19/2020 09:03PM
Banksiana: "Piragis in Ely almost always as a couple of Advantages available." Same with Silent Glide in Wisconsin
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/23/2020 04:02PM
Interesting tidbit......I just spoke with customer service at Wenonah inquiring about the serial number. He thought it was probably made in early 1984 and stated that I have probably one of the earliest 16'6" Advantages out there. Cool.

I asked if they still had any "Kevlar 49" or "Kruger Designed" stickers available...unfortunately no. Longshot, but I figured I'd ask.

He also stated that Wenonah is reintroducing the Advantage for 2020!
 
01/23/2020 04:18PM
That explains the lack of floatation. That was considered a racing canoe.
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1536)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/27/2020 08:04AM
Blatz: "That explains the lack of floatation. That was considered a racing canoe."

Agreed. Those thin gunwales were a giveaway. The previous owner wanted that canoe to be as light as possible.

Since you plan to take it camping, some thicker gunwales would be advantageous to strengthening it up a bit. 1/2" ash or mahogany on both sides will only be about 6 pounds +/-. Also agree that some flotation would be nice. That canoe as is will probably float but just enough to grab out of the water.

Tom
 
Banksiana
distinguished member(2035)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/27/2020 09:48AM
I would leave it just inner gunwales. I think its the best looking most practical setup (from a paddling perspective) that there is. Lots of upside (less weight, less interference paddling) no real downside.
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
01/27/2020 10:44AM
Thanks for the recommendations. I have decided to leave the inwales, and glue/repair the split near the bow. I removed the wavy crude outwales and excessive steel hardware. This weekend, I made progress on the new outwales. Look how much the new outwales have cleaned up the curvature....no more waves. Right now the outwales are just screwed on with 3/4" long brass screws. Eventually, I'll glue them on with epoxy.

I figure the weight of the removed steel hardware, wavy outwales and thick wood endcaps, might be close to the weight of the added new outwales…….whatever weight is added won't be too excessive.

The gunwales are so much stiffer and confidence inspiring since I plan to trip with this boat.

You can also see the foam cut and shaped for the float tanks....which will get glassed in once the temps are suitable. Progress....





 
01/27/2020 04:06PM
Nice - It will be an awesome tripper
 
Beast388
member (24)member
 
02/16/2020 12:55PM
I’ve made some progress over the last 6 weeks...even in the cold winter temps.

Float tanks are in using foam, epoxy and left over Kevlar scraps from a previous tandem build.

Old outwales removed, cracked inwale repaired and new outwales installed.

I’m now working on cleaning up the hull for a light coat of epoxy. Not sure yet if I’ll coat the entire hull, or just up to the waterline and then spar varnish the hull and gunwales.

I also might stain the outwales to match the inwales in color...and to bring the areas of the inwales that I've sanded back to a solid color.

I also might CNC cut new endcaps out of ABS, or spring for some carbon fiber sheet to clean the ends up cosmetically.

New Wenonah stickers will go on once the hull is finished.

Boat weighs 30lbs right now...so a net gain of 1lb.

Can’t wait to try it out once the water is once again in liquid state.




 
mr.barley
distinguished member(7189)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/17/2020 01:10AM
The Advantage is a great hull. I’ve had two of them.Enjoy the long glide.
 
02/17/2020 08:50AM
Well done - really neat that you've given this one a second life!
 
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