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ryan72
member (8)member
 
03/07/2020 03:46PM
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

I have read many, may posts on here and other message boards but still have a few questions I need help with.

I want to make a lightweight DIY setup using a Garmin 4 Plus CV. It is stated to draw 400mA @ 12V. Weight is a priority as I have quite a bit of portaging to do and will be on a 9 day trip where I hope to be able to use the finder 3 or 4 hours a day.

My 3 main questions concern:
1. The power supply
2. An easy to attach mounting strategy to a thwart (rental canoe so no screws). I'm looking at some type of clamp or velcro strap type setup. Not knowing the exact dimensions of the thwart is a challenge.
3.Mounting the transducer to shoot through the hull

1. Power Supply
I have read that 8 Energizer Ultimate Lithiums (EUL) are an effective method of powering a Striker 4 that draws 230mA @ 12V. I understand that using 10 isn't worth it for that model. I haven't been able to find a report of anyone running a 4 Plus CV off of EUL AAs.

Wouldn't 10 EUL batteries be a good option for the 4 Plus CV since it draws nearly double the current of the regular model 4 ? From what I've read the 4 Plus CV runs from 10-20V so 10 EUL batteries, even at their initial high voltage, would be only pushing 15-16V. I've looked at lots of battery discharge curves like this one:
Energize Ultimate Lithium specs

How long do you think 10AA EULs will run 400mA at 12V? What about 8AA EULs?

I don't want to mess with alkaline batteries that weigh more than the EULs. I know their running time will be different and that they are different. I can get EULs for about 85 cents a piece so if I needed to bring 3 sets of 10 it isn't too expensive. The down side is they are not rechargeable.

Another nice looking option would be to go with 4 18650 protected Lithium batteries like this:
LG MJ1 18650

4 come in right under 14.5 V and have an impressive 14000mAh in total.
LG MJ1 18650 specs

Any idea how long these could run the Striker 4 plus CV?

These are rechargeable but a set of 4 is about $40 after shipping and I would need to get a charger so that is added cost. A set of 4 is heavier than 10 EULs but only by about 2 ounces. I haven't been able to find a way to recharge these using my solar solar panel I use now for my portable batteries used to keep my phone charged (I use my phone for pictures and mapping). Its 21W but it's output is 5V via USB.

Anyone know of a way to use a solar panel like this to recharge 18650s? That would be an ideal set up in my opinion.

If these 18650s ran for about 3-4 times as long as EULs then I think they could be they way I go. I'm just not sure on the run time estimates. I'm not in love with throwing away 30 or 40 batteries at the end of a trip.

2. What is the best way to be able to mount and unmount to a thwart. I will be portaging up to 2 miles at a time and some days will have 2 to 5 portages. I need away to relatively quickly mount this and take down for the portages.

3. I have some closed cell foam. Just make a cut out of the transducer and place on the bottom of the canoe? Throw some water on it and its good to go?
Do I need to adhere the foam to the canoe? or just have it sit there? Won't the water leak out if its not puttied/siliconed/etc.. in place? I am renting a kevlar canoe so don't want to damage anything.
I see Garmin also makes this:
garmin in hull transducer mount

Thanks again for any help you can provide!

 
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Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13089)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
03/07/2020 11:32PM
Welcome aboard here. I have this unit on my pontoon boat, good fish finder. The topic of fish finders batteries has been talked about here many times. It’s very easy to find many with the search button top center of the page. There is also someone here who built a clamp on board that holds the fish finder, again in the search. The clamps move in a slotted groove so no need to know the thwart distance. Also many posts about shooting through the hull with a transducer. I like the lightweight metal strap transducer mount that hangs over the side.
 
ryan72
member (8)member
 
03/08/2020 08:42AM
Savage Voyageur: "Welcome aboard here. I have this unit on my pontoon boat, good fish finder. The topic of fish finders batteries has been talked about here many times. It’s very easy to find many with the search button top center of the page. There is also someone here who built a clamp on board that holds the fish finder, again in the search. The clamps move in a slotted groove so no need to know the thwart distance. Also many posts about shooting through the hull with a transducer. I like the lightweight metal strap transducer mount that hangs over the side. "

Thank you. I realize this topic has been addressed in multiple posts. I've been reading and researching for several weeks.

I have searched through all of the posts and have seen the clamp on board for the thwart. Its a great design and makes sense, but I do no want to carry that on portages. I was just looking for other ideas people have had success with.

I also have not been able to find info on 8 vs 10 AAa EUL battery life with this specific unit or estimated life of the 18650s on this unit, not the striker 4 or 4 plus. The CV draws more power.
 
MagicPaddler
distinguished member(1355)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/10/2020 06:40AM
If using EUL batteries use 8 in series. ONLY use 10 if using alkaline batteries. If your unit is drawing 230mA a set of 8 EUL batteries will last about 14 hours of operation.
If using 18650 batteries they must be protected and that can be done with protection on each cell or by placing them in protective holders. Protected 18650 batteries are a little longer than unprotected therefore will not fit many 18650 battery holders. I put a post on another site which I can’t mention here that has a protected holder allowing the use of unprotected 18650. You can find that post by searching for "Light weight rechargeable batteries." Include the quote marks in the search. Make sure you read the section about how to reset the protection board once it trips.
Another battery option is referenced in this thread.
LiPo Battery option
 
ryan72
member (8)member
 
03/10/2020 07:36PM
Thanks MagicPaddler!

The 4 plus CV unit draws 400mA. The non CV unit draws 230mA.

Are 8 EULs the best option for the 400mA unit as well?

I don't quite understand why 10 lithiums aren't better than 8. I've read many of your other posts and see why 10 alkalines outperform 8, but don't see why it isn't the same concept for the lithiums. The 4 plus CV can run between 10-20V and 10 EUL AAs should give 15 V to start and I've looked at the discharge curve for the EULs. Can you explain why 8 lithiums will run longer than 10 for me please? I appreciate your time and I will search for your post on the 18650s.
 
MagicPaddler
distinguished member(1355)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/11/2020 05:21AM
EUL’s are higher voltage than alkaline. With 8 EUL’s the voltage will be a closer match to what the detector was designed to run on. The voltage out of 8 EUL’s is about the same as 10 alkaline.
If the detector is drawing 400mA the 8 EUL’s would run it for about 7&1/2 hours. At that current the batteries will put out less total energy and the detector is using it faster.
The 18650 batteries can stand the higher draw without losing total energy out. Looking at the
LGFL1 3350mAh $3.19.
If you use a set of 4 in the holder mentioned on the other site it would supply 400mA for about 7&3/4 hours.
Does your detector have a low voltage alarm?
 
MagicPaddler
distinguished member(1355)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/11/2020 05:39AM
In the link in my first post in this thread (LiPo Battery option) look for the post with 16AH Battery in it. I see that battery is out of stock but they will have something similar. That battery would supply 400mA for about 35 hours.
 
ryan72
member (8)member
 
03/11/2020 02:11PM
MagicPaddler: "EUL’s are higher voltage than alkaline. With 8 EUL’s the voltage will be a closer match to what the detector was designed to run on. The voltage out of 8 EUL’s is about the same as 10 alkaline.
If the detector is drawing 400mA the 8 EUL’s would run it for about 7&1/2 hours. At that current the batteries will put out less total energy and the detector is using it faster.
The 18650 batteries can stand the higher draw without losing total energy out. Looking at the
LGFL1 3350mAh $3.19.
If you use a set of 4 in the holder mentioned on the other site it would supply 400mA for about 7&3/4 hours.
Does your detector have a low voltage alarm?
"


Thanks again MagicPaddler.

So it looks like running this 400mA unit with 4 18650s will yield less than 8 hours and 8 AA EUL will yield about 7.5 hours. I think I will just go with the 8 AA EUL option as I can purchase those for 85 cents each making 8 cost $6.80. I cold bring 5 sets and their weight is approximately 21.5 ounces. Factoring run time (5x7.5 hours = 37.5 hours), cost (~$34), and simplicity-the AAs make sense to me.

The major down side is that they are not rechargeable. The LiPo battery is interesting but I will not be able to recharge it on my trip and it is a heavier and more expensive option. I think waterproofing it will be more of a challenge as well.

If I could find a way to safely recharge he 18650s out in the wilderness using my solar panel I would be more inclined to go with them.

Have you ever thought about using a car jump start Lithium battery? There are some like this that have the 12V out but also charges by 5V USB (that would be great to use with my current solar panel). I don't know the overall weight and the large battery clamps would need to be swapped out.
this is one I have looked into a bit but haven't tried:

Lithium jump starter battery

this one is listed at just under a pound and about $60. Thoughts?

Type S 10000mAh Jump Starter
 
MagicPaddler
distinguished member(1355)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/11/2020 02:54PM
There is a lot of deceptive advertising in some battery products. For example the first jump start battery (JSB) list it output as 8000mAh but it does not say at what voltage it supplies that current. The second JSB you list makes the mistake of telling the truth in the specification. They say “Up to 1000 mAh (3.7V)” but they are wired to put out higher voltage than that. The total power out of that JSB is about the same as 3 of the 18650 cells I linked above.
 
PatrickE
distinguished member (109)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/11/2020 06:41PM
Here's the setup I built for my Garmin Stryker last year. 1 set of lithium batteries lasted me the whole trip (at least a few hours of use each day).
 
ryan72
member (8)member
 
03/12/2020 06:05AM
PatrickE-thanks for sharing. Awesome idea. I remember seeing that in your original post. What are the general dimensions of the wood pieces?

Did you route out the channel on the inside of the wood so that it could work on a rounded thwart as well as a flat surface? I like the idea of the foam/rubber inlay to add some additional grip.

Since I am renting a canoe I do not know the dimensions of the thwart so its frustrating me. How thick and wide of a thwart will your system work on?
 
PatrickE
distinguished member (109)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/12/2020 07:33PM
ryan72: "PatrickE-thanks for sharing. Awesome idea. I remember seeing that in your original post. What are the general dimensions of the wood pieces?


Did you route out the channel on the inside of the wood so that it could work on a rounded thwart as well as a flat surface? I like the idea of the foam/rubber inlay to add some additional grip.


Since I am renting a canoe I do not know the dimensions of the thwart so its frustrating me. How thick and wide of a thwart will your system work on? "


I'm out of town for the next week but I'll see if I can pull it out when I get back and give you some measurements. The channel in the middle was made by a step router bit to try to give it as many mounting options as possible. I've tried it on a flatter wood thwart as well as a metal tubular thwart and worked well with both. If the thwart was wider, you could always rotate this thing 90 degrees and just clamp the wood to wood. I rent boats for trips as well and found it to be pretty universal, but probably overengineered it a bit. I made one and found the channel was too deep and I couldn't clamp tight enough. This was version 2.0.
 
sylvesterii
distinguished member (137)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/13/2020 03:51PM
oops. wrong thread.
 
PatrickE
distinguished member (109)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/27/2020 07:04PM
PatrickE: "ryan72: "PatrickE-thanks for sharing. Awesome idea. I remember seeing that in your original post. What are the general dimensions of the wood pieces?



Did you route out the channel on the inside of the wood so that it could work on a rounded thwart as well as a flat surface? I like the idea of the foam/rubber inlay to add some additional grip.



Since I am renting a canoe I do not know the dimensions of the thwart so its frustrating me. How thick and wide of a thwart will your system work on? "



I'm out of town for the next week but I'll see if I can pull it out when I get back and give you some measurements. The channel in the middle was made by a step router bit to try to give it as many mounting options as possible. I've tried it on a flatter wood thwart as well as a metal tubular thwart and worked well with both. If the thwart was wider, you could always rotate this thing 90 degrees and just clamp the wood to wood. I rent boats for trips as well and found it to be pretty universal, but probably overengineered it a bit. I made one and found the channel was too deep and I couldn't clamp tight enough. This was version 2.0. "


Sorry for the delay. Hope these help. If you're stuck at home, may be a good time for a project.




 
Hawks
member (6)member
 
04/03/2020 05:47AM

I have a portable Garmin Striker 4 that is used for fishing from a canoe. The 12V battery made it too heavy so a 8 AA battery pack was used on a trip to the BWCA. However, after two days of limited use the battery pack went dead. Fortunately, an engineer was on the trip. I asked him what happened? He said does the Garmin have a colored screen and I said yes. He said colored screens require a lot of power so that caused the battery pack to go dead. He said the 12V battery should be used and probably would last a week. I had another battery pack that I controlled its use and made it the rest of the trip.

Conclusion. Use the heavy 12V battery or bring multiple battery packs.
 
Jaywalker
distinguished member(2085)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/07/2020 07:48AM
Hawks: "
I have a portable Garmin Striker 4 that is used for fishing from a canoe. The 12V battery made it too heavy so a 8 AA battery pack was used on a trip to the BWCA. However, after two days of limited use the battery pack went dead. "

Out of curiosity, what type of batteries were you using and were they new when you started your trip? I have a Striker 4 (non-CV) and run 8 EUL's, and on my spring trips run it maybe 20-30 hour or so more on a week long trip with no trouble.
 
ryan72
member (8)member
 
04/07/2020 10:03AM
Thanks PatrickE - the pics and measurements are very helpful!

With so much time time available to tinker around I have been playing around with mounting and power options.

EUL AAs can be found for 75 cents each so it is hard to argue with their cost and weight when compared to 18650s.

I like the idea of the 18650s being rechargeable and I have found a charger that will run on my portable solar panel charger (in theory- I haven't tried it yet and don't know how long it will take to charge them). I figure I would need 2 sets of 4 18650s (one set on charge while using the other). The cost just for 18650 batteries and shipping is $60-75. For the same weight of the 8 18650s and their charger I could bring 5-6 sets of 8 AA EULs. But, I don't think I would need that many for the amount of fishing I will be doing. I don't like that the EULs are single use.
 
Hawks
member (6)member
 
04/07/2020 05:38PM

I'm fairly certain regular Duracell batteries were used and they were new.
 
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