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gotwins
distinguished member (107)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 01:28PM
Hi Everyone,

Just got off the phone with Sawbill outfitters. They said that a fire ban is supposed to go into effect tonight. As of now, I haven't seen anything official from the USFS, but thought I'd give a heads up on it. We're going in on Friday, July 3rd. They got a little rain yesterday, but not much and it's still very dry up there. Probably also coincides with the 4th of July weekend.

 
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dadof6
distinguished member (218)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 02:42PM
Piragis sent out an email with the order attached. The only place in Superior National Forest that you can have a campfire is at a few specific campgrounds they listed in the order. Trails End is one of those campgrounds listed.
moose664788
distinguished member (201)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 03:05PM
Maybe dumb question, but how much rain you think is needed to lift it? Can it be lifted after one big rain storm ?
backpackingZombie
senior member (60)senior membersenior member
 
06/30/2020 03:05PM
Boo, but oh well. It's for the best. Now let's hope nobody has one anyways and causes any issues :(

I'm heading up on the 9th via Hungry Jack Outfitters
tigag
member (5)member
 
06/30/2020 03:53PM
I cannot find anything listed on the gov sites. Just a warning from yesterday.
cyclones30
distinguished member(2315)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 06:12PM
There's an official one out there.
lindylair
distinguished member(2329)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 08:00PM
This is what I found on their website. Doesn't speak to BWCA either way, does exempt certain campgrounds. Frustratingly incomplete and unclear.



SUPERIOR NATIONAL FOREST RESTRICTS CAMPFIRE USE
Contact(s): Suzanne Hirsch suzanne.hirsch@usda.gov or Trent Wickman trent.wickman@usda.gov
Duluth, MN June 30, 2020 – Due to worsening fire danger conditions, the Superior National Forest is restricting the building, maintaining, attending or use of a fire or campfire to reduce the likelihood of a wildfire on the Superior National Forest (Forest Order R9-20-07).

Exemptions under this temporary Forest Order is the use of a stove or grill that is solely fueled by liquid petroleum or liquid petroleum gas fuels (pressurized liquid or gas stove) and campfires in approved fire rings in select Forest Service developed campgrounds.

Current drought data shows the Forest in the ‘abnormally dry’ and ‘moderate drought’ condition categories. Drought conditions cause numerous impacts to the forest including, increased fire danger and a decline in lake and river levels. Due to these conditions, the potential for wildfires remains high in and around the Superior National Forest. With the continued lack of moisture and increase in temperatures, potential heat sources such as engines or campfires can easily ignite surrounding vegetation, resulting in a wildfire.

Use of campfires is limited to the following Forest Service campgrounds:

Birch Lake Campground
Fall Lake Campground
Fenske Lake Campground
South Kawishiwi River Campground
Whiteface Reservoir Campground
Cadotte Lake Campground
Sawbill Campground
Crescent Lake Campground
Temperance River Campground
East Bearskin Campground
Flour Lake Campground
Iron Lake Campground
Trails End Campground
Devils Track Campground
Two Island Campground
These temporary restrictions will serve to reduce the risk of human caused wildfire in the National Forest. Where campfires are allowed, campers are urged to be extra vigilant when building and extinguishing campfires and carry out the following:

gotwins
distinguished member (107)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 08:15PM
What’s so confusing? Superior National Forest has a fire ban. The BWCA is entirely within the Superior NF. Thus, no fires in the BWCA.
lindylair
distinguished member(2329)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 08:19PM
Gee you are so smart.

Don't ya think they might mention the BWCA in their post for clarity? Talks about exemptions for certain campgrounds. But no mention of the BWCA which is the "essence" of the SNF and where 250,000 people camp each year. How hard would it be to have added "this fire ban includes all of the BWCA".

Glad you are happy with the post. I wasn't.
ledhead
member (16)member
 
06/30/2020 08:50PM
moose664788: "Maybe dumb question, but how much rain you think is needed to lift it? Can it be lifted after one big rain storm ?"

Fwiw, my experience w USFS fire bans is, once enacted, they tend to last longer than many users think they should, and it’s probably a good thing. I live in CO mtns, fire bans and fires a regular event, and including fire bans in Feb, March and April, the latter two are 2 of our biggest snow months.
gotwins
distinguished member (107)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 09:51PM
lindylair: "Gee you are so smart.


Don't ya think they might mention the BWCA in their post for clarity? Talks about exemptions for certain campgrounds. But no mention of the BWCA which is the "essence" of the SNF and where 250,000 people camp each year. How hard would it be to have added "this fire ban includes all of the BWCA".


Glad you are happy with the post. I wasn't. "


Maybe this helps?

https://sawbill.com/2020/06/30/fire-ban/
Jaywalker
distinguished member(2183)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/30/2020 10:28PM
lindylair: "Gee you are so smart.


Don't ya think they might mention the BWCA in their post for clarity? Talks about exemptions for certain campgrounds. But no mention of the BWCA which is the "essence" of the SNF and where 250,000 people camp each year. How hard would it be to have added "this fire ban includes all of the BWCA".


Glad you are happy with the post. I wasn't. "


Don’t be a smarty-pants Lindylair. Gotwins is right - rules governing the Superior National Forest clearly apply to all of the Superior National Forest unless some exemptions are mentioned. No one is happy about a fire ban - but most of us just don’t vent on other members of this forum because of them.
Boppasteveg
senior member (51)senior membersenior member
 
07/01/2020 05:41AM
Well said.
LindenTree
distinguished member(2478)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/01/2020 09:25AM
gotwins: "lindylair: "Gee you are so smart.



Don't ya think they might mention the BWCA in their post for clarity? Talks about exemptions for certain campgrounds. But no mention of the BWCA which is the "essence" of the SNF and where 250,000 people camp each year. How hard would it be to have added "this fire ban includes all of the BWCA".



Glad you are happy with the post. I wasn't. "



Maybe this helps?


https://sawbill.com/2020/06/30/fire-ban/"


Link
Canoeinggal
member (28)member
 
07/01/2020 12:51PM
I called the Grand Marais fire ranger station yesterday. They said we would need at least a full day of a good soaking rain .
tigag
member (5)member
 
07/02/2020 12:11PM
Acquaintance told me they went up a few yrs ago during a fire ban and ignored it. Said he was excessively careful and only used fire to cook fish. Said he was willing to pay fine if caught. I thought this was pretty irresponsible, but he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts?
tigag
member (5)member
 
07/02/2020 12:11PM
Acquaintance told me they went up a few yrs ago during a fire ban and ignored it. Said he was excessively careful and only used fire to cook fish. Said he was willing to pay fine if caught. I thought this was pretty irresponsible, but he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts?
GraniteCliffs
distinguished member(1831)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/02/2020 03:28PM
Irresponsible is one issue.
A fifty buck fine per person is another issue.
I would not like either but my biggest issue would be the fact that I would not be able to relax if I knew I was knowingly in noncompliance in such a public way.
I know this because I have been in the Q sans permit, RABC and fishing license on one occasion perhaps 30 years ago. Long story as to why but it was not what we had planned on doing. It was very late in the fall and we were quite certain we would not meet a ranger. But I kept looking back and forward on lakes expecting to see a ranger. Same thing once we were in camp.
It simply was not a good feeling in a place you are normally fully at peace.
And a fire when it is tinder dry? Nope. I did that once too about 40 years ago. In the wind. On a point. Yep, we had a ground fire that covered the point and scared me to death. I have been careful ever since.
crosfan
 
07/02/2020 04:30PM
tigag: "he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts? "

I'm heading in on Saturday so was extremely disappointed to see the ban go into effect as this was planned as a twig stove only trip for us. We also have a tradition to cook steaks the first night which will be a bummer to miss out on and quite frankly I really prefer to grill fish over a fire then try to pan fry over a stove.

I've come across multiple mentions of $5,000 fine for violating the fire ban. I find a reference here that violation is up to $5,000 maximum. Also there is again a mention of the 5k max here.

All I know is I won't be finding out first hand what the fine is but also curious if anyone can confirm or has first hand knowledge.
LindenTree
distinguished member(2478)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/02/2020 05:16PM
tigag: "Acquaintance told me they went up a few yrs ago during a fire ban and ignored it. Said he was excessively careful and only used fire to cook fish. Said he was willing to pay fine if caught. I thought this was pretty irresponsible, but he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts? "

"Excessively careful" and building a fire during a fire ban is an oddity.

Looks like the fine could be up to $5,000, not to mention one will most certainly be charged the suppression costs if it spreads into the wildlands and then there is a ticket for that as well. "Allowing a fire to spread"

$5,000 dollar fine
CoachBigD
distinguished member (142)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/02/2020 06:28PM
Gunflint Burning comes to mind.
schweady
distinguished member(6916)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
07/03/2020 09:29AM
Just came out yesterday. Didn't hear about the ban until our last day, but it was obviously too dry and too hot and too windy to even *think* about a fire. We noticed a spotter plane going over 2-3 times a day for the last few days while we were in, and figured something was up.

I hope your acquaintance is just as "excessively careful" at putting away his savings. Grrr...
olsonm37
member (22)member
 
07/05/2020 12:34PM
Curious to know, with a couple big storms in the forecast this next week is that enough to lift the ban or would we need to have a 5 out of 7 day rain type to do so?

I figure the latter, but curious as I have never encountered the fire ban up there before
LindenTree
distinguished member(2478)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/05/2020 06:26PM
olsonm37: "Curious to know, with a couple big storms in the forecast this next week is that enough to lift the ban or would we need to have a 5 out of 7 day rain type to do so?


I figure the latter, but curious as I have never encountered the fire ban up there before"


I think you would need 1-2 inches of soaking rain and a wet forecast in the future.
Even with 1-2 inches of rain, if the 10 day forecast is for dry and hot weather, I doubt the ban would be lifted.
CoachBigD
distinguished member (142)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/05/2020 07:42PM
Looks like the current rain might be too much too fast and mostly run off. Hopefully there is not any lightning.
CityFisher74
distinguished member (446)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/06/2020 04:07PM
Excessively careful lol that's rich. That goes up there with "didn't inhale" and "not receiving an intelligence briefing". Excuses always stink but some are more rancid than others.
smoke11
distinguished member (166)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/07/2020 06:16AM
A wise man once said excuses only satisfy the people that give them.
Wow!
Guest Paddler
 
07/07/2020 07:53AM
tigag: "Acquaintance told me they went up a few yrs ago during a fire ban and ignored it. Said he was excessively careful and only used fire to cook fish. Said he was willing to pay fine if caught. I thought this was pretty irresponsible, but he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts? "
If he or she had started a forest fire during a fire ban the consequences would have been life changing. Certainly not worth the risk. Campfires are great in the spring and fall but who wants to sit around a hot fire in the summer after a hot day?
Zanzinger
senior member (71)senior membersenior member
 
07/08/2020 12:12PM
I've never been in the BWCA during a fire ban. We are planning a trip the first week of August. Do firebans typically last over a month? Or is it likely it gets lifted by then?
Josh S
Guest Paddler
 
07/08/2020 03:35PM
It’s all weather dependent. Could be lifted anytime if there is some consistent rainfall
TheOnion
senior member (65)senior membersenior member
 
07/08/2020 04:49PM
Is the ban still in place? I have not seen anywhere that it was lifted so my guess is yes it is still in place. However they did get some pretty heavy rain this week which may give me a ray of hope for a campfire in July.

gotwins
distinguished member (107)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/08/2020 05:11PM
It was still up yesterday when we left Sawbill. These rains are helping, maybe in a few days they can lift it. Keep in mind they generally apply to the whole BWCA/National Forest, so we have to get some rain over the whole National Forest area.
07/09/2020 08:12AM
Quite a bit of rain in the arrowhead in the last 24 hours...step in the right direction.
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(596)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/09/2020 10:13AM
tigag: "Acquaintance told me they went up a few yrs ago during a fire ban and ignored it. Said he was excessively careful and only used fire to cook fish. Said he was willing to pay fine if caught. I thought this was pretty irresponsible, but he claimed it was only a 50.00 fine for each camper. I can't believe it is only 50.00 but he swears by it. Thoughts? "

This is the kind of crap that ruins it for everybody. The rules are only as good as the people who follow them. And, if this person was so willing to flaunt the fire ban, it would not surprise me if they were willing to flaunt the cans and bottles rules, bathing in the lake, and garbage in the latrine rules.

As others have said, if this person causes a fire, they will be responsible for paying for the fighting of it. But worse than that is the ruin of the forest for others through selfishness and their attitude that rules are for other people. I am quite sure this is not a concern to this person.

Mike
FTLOSBW
 
07/10/2020 02:20PM
Curious as to how fire ban is applied to parties that entered prior to the ban going into effect and therefore would have no knowledge of the ban. I would hope the rangers would check your permit entrance date and give you a pass if you had a fire. Anyone experienced this situation or know?
schweady
distinguished member(6916)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
07/10/2020 09:23PM
FTLOSBW: "Curious as to how fire ban is applied to parties that entered prior to the ban going into effect and therefore would have no knowledge of the ban. I would hope the rangers would check your permit entrance date and give you a pass if you had a fire. Anyone experienced this situation or know? "
First thing they do is ask for your permit. Yes, you get "a pass" if you entered prior to the fire ban beginning and your permit has no mention of a ban. A strong message about making a choice to start a fire in such obviously dry conditions is probably something one should expect. They will mark your permit with "Fire Ban" and sign and date it. (Entering under ban would mean that your permit is already marked as such.)
07/11/2020 04:35PM
Fire ban is lifted due to recent rains.
 
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