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   Listening Point - General Discussion
      Wolf or Coyote     

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jbonewitz
 
09/28/2020 07:06PM
We have made numerous trips to Quetico and BWCA. They always preach to look out for bears. Thankfully we’ve never run into one. But what about the other dangerous animals? We are trying to figure out if this was a coyote or wolf that wandered through camp one evening. He was alone and didn’t seem scared of us yelling at him one bit. He never snarled or looked aggressive or scared. We have a video but I can’t get it to upload. The pics show his face but if you are able to see his body and him walking he’s very clean and doesn’t appear to have mange. He was also at least 70-80 pounds. I’ve seen coyotes in Iowa and this does not look anything like a coyote to me. Too large, clean fur and not afraid of humans. Anyone have any similar experiences or thoughts which this is?

 
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chessie
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09/28/2020 08:02PM
My money is on a wolf.

Have never seen one come into a camp myself, however, many years ago we pulled in late one eve onto Ensign. Too late to be picky about campsite. We grabbed the 1st open site, and it was a mess. Debris, fishing pole, part of a pack, dirty diaper, etc. The next day the guys on a neighboring site told us that the party had left in a hurry during the night because "wolves" had come into their camp! Given that we found evidence of joints (marijuana) around the fire grate, I question what really happened!

Cool pics!
 
Duckman
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09/28/2020 08:08PM
That dog just wanted a nightcap.
 
landoftheskytintedwater
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09/28/2020 08:10PM
Just my opinion but I think that's a wolf. I may be wrong but I don't think there are many coyotes in the wilderness.

Where was that?
 
chessie
distinguished member (134)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/28/2020 08:18PM
If it weighed 70-80 lbs, it's a wolf.
Many say wolves and coyotes won't occupy the same area. I live in the Northwoods of MN, and we have both.
 
woodsandwater
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09/28/2020 08:18PM
Canis lupus. Wolf.
 
jbonewitz
 
09/28/2020 08:25PM
Between Big Knife and Amoeber
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13370)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
09/28/2020 08:27PM
Looks like a wolf to me.
 
09/28/2020 08:43PM
Coyotes have pointed ears while wolves have more rounded.
It looks like a wolf.
 
jillpine
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09/28/2020 08:53PM
Wolf
 
martian
senior member (53)senior membersenior member
 
09/28/2020 08:55PM
I agree, wolf. The snout doesn't seem sharp/pointed enough to guess coyote.
 
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2612)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/28/2020 09:05PM
Maybe he was coming in, enticed by your bottles of liquor? :-)
 
jbonewitz
 
09/28/2020 09:07PM
There would be hell to pay if he wanted the liquor! I carried that all the way in for me.
I kind of forgot that was in the picture. Good eyes.
 
AdamXChicago
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09/28/2020 10:35PM
I’ve seen lots of coyote, so my money is on wolf
 
smoke11
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09/29/2020 06:46AM
Wolf and that is a nice looking bar.
 
Outdoorsfan69
senior member (72)senior membersenior member
 
09/29/2020 07:29AM
Imo, I'd have to say wolf.
 
shock
distinguished member(3885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/29/2020 07:58AM
i've seen some big coyotes , one actually crossed in front of me driving down the GFT carrying like a 40 pound beaver in it's mouth (everyone else was sleeping) , and most people would swear it was a timberwolf. the 2nd pick does show a fairly stout animal , but i'm not convinced it's a TW. , male coyotes are loners and a wolf would smell a person from a long ways off (yes coyote too), but would have no need to visit ,,, unless it was hungry ? i understand the comment about not being managing looking but these northern coyotes eat and sleep good , so much to feed on. very healthy species. a pic of someone standing by the same bush would have been nice for height comparison , but
you all be tripping ;)
 
airmorse
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09/29/2020 08:09AM
woodsandwater: "Canis lupus. Wolf."

+1
 
KarlBAndersen1
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09/29/2020 08:30AM
landoftheskytintedwater: "..........but I don't think there are many coyotes in the wilderness."

Only by the millions.
 
Pinetree
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09/29/2020 09:29AM
KarlBAndersen1: "landoftheskytintedwater: "..........but I don't think there are many coyotes in the wilderness."


Only by the millions."


We had a pack of wolves come running right up to camp looking for a free meal. They seen us than took off.
 
LindenTree
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09/29/2020 10:19AM
I like my E & J Brandy neat, not on the rocks, guessing the pup does as well, probably why it didn't come in for a drink.

I'll guess Wolf.
 
09/29/2020 10:32AM
Wolf or coyote??? It was probably the booze.
 
mgraber
distinguished member(1091)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/29/2020 10:54AM
Absolutely a wolf. A large coyote weighs 40 lbs, average around 30. The head shape is also all wrong. I've handled a lot of coyotes. Eastern coyotes, which have been shown to commonly have wolf genes, can be larger.
 
acanoer
member (42)member
 
09/29/2020 11:01AM
I seem many of both the largest coyote I ever had my hands on was 52lbs.

I have trapped and shot many yotes.

I seen coyotes that can look like a young wolf and I seen wolves that have the color of coyotes and when young look like them.

Some times the only true way to tell is a DNA test.

If it was truly around 80lbs wolf.

 
tumblehome
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09/29/2020 12:45PM
I have heard the yips of coyotes in the BWCA but that picture in the OP is a wolf. There are plenty up there and it is a real blessing to see one.

We need to keep the wolf numbers high in northern MN to keep the deer numbers low.
Grazing of deer are decimating the white pine and cedar and without human intervention by manually capping buds, there will be less regeneration.

When I say keeping the numbers high, I refer to keeping them at numbers that were normal before colonial days. The deer population is dis-proportionally high because humans like recreational hunting of deer.

Tom


 
Pinetree
distinguished member(12797)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
09/29/2020 12:49PM
tumblehome: "I have heard the yips of coyotes in the BWCA but that picture in the OP is a wolf. There are plenty up there and it is a real blessing to see one.


We need to keep the wolf numbers high in northern MN to keep the deer numbers low.
Grazing of deer are decimating the white pine and cedar and without human intervention by manually capping buds, there will be less regeneration.


When I say keeping the numbers high, I refer to keeping them at numbers that were normal before colonial days. The deer population is dis-proportionally high because humans like recreational hunting of deer.


Tom

"



Deer numbers at present on the BWCA is the lowest in 70 years at least with many areas at 2-4 deer/sq mile or less according to the MN DNR. Wolves are as high or higher than 1900. At present 2650 adult wolves(pre pup population). Food in the Voyaguers wolf project is so low one pack they GPS all 4-5 pups died this summer due to starvation.

Lack of white pines in the big burns is not because of deer browsing, it is lack of a seed source. The USFS talked about aerial white pine seeding, but decided against it.
 
09/29/2020 02:52PM
From the Washington State DNR.

Difference between wolves and coyotes.
 
09/29/2020 05:45PM
At first glance, I thought it was a silver wolf joke :) I couldn’t find the wolf. Hah
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1727)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/29/2020 07:21PM
Pinetree: "tumblehome: "I have heard the yips of coyotes in the BWCA but that picture in the OP is a wolf. There are plenty up there and it is a real blessing to see one.



We need to keep the wolf numbers high in northern MN to keep the deer numbers low.
Grazing of deer are decimating the white pine and cedar and without human intervention by manually capping buds, there will be less regeneration.



When I say keeping the numbers high, I refer to keeping them at numbers that were normal before colonial days. The deer population is dis-proportionally high because humans like recreational hunting of deer.



Tom


"




Deer numbers at present on the BWCA is the lowest in 70 years at least with many areas at 2-4 deer/sq mile or less according to the MN DNR. Wolves are as high or higher than 1900. At present 2650 adult wolves(pre pup population). Food in the Voyaguers wolf project is so low one pack they GPS all 4-5 pups died this summer due to starvation.


Lack of white pines in the big burns is not because of deer browsing, it is lack of a seed source. The USFS talked about aerial white pine seeding, but decided against it.
"


I said northern MN, not the BWCA. Deer are over-populated in many parts of northern MN. I live in Northern MN and can observe the browsing of deer preventing white pine and cedar regeneration. If I were to plant a thousand pine and cedars on my property, every single one would be eaten down to the stem. Every one.

Talk to the larger logging companies that plant seedlings all across northern MN, every pine must be capped. And the only place cedars are coming back is on a few reservations where the native Americans hammer the deer keeping the numbers extremely low.

They were not counting wolves in 1900. They were certainly killing them. And they did a good job seeing how they were extirpated in Minnesota by the 1950's.

Thankfully, deer numbers are indeed relatively low in the BWCA in part to wolves, and in part due to poor habitat.


Tom
 
dentondoc
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09/29/2020 09:09PM
shock: "...a wolf would smell a person from a long ways off..."
I say, "generally true." However, I did have an occasion in Quetico once where I was standing at the end of a lake where it quickly narrowed into a stream. It was a windy day. As I stood there re-tieing my fishing line, I noticed movement on the opposite bank. I looked up to see a wolf angling toward the stream intent on getting a drink. When he was less than 30 feet away, I said "Hey" and he immediately put on the skids and retreated back over the ridge line from which he'd come with some haste. So the combination of wind noise, the fact that I was down wind of him and his focus on getting a drink made for an interesting episode.

Within 10 minutes, a deer crept up beside me (on my side of the stream) less than 20 feet away. It might have been VERY interesting had they shown up at the same time.

As for coyote or wolf, I'd say immature wolf. Ear and snout length and ear shape suggest wolf to me.

dd
 
Portage99
distinguished member (461)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/29/2020 10:49PM
Yeah, he doesn't look aggressive in these shots. Just curious or checking something out. Did he get any closer? How long did he stay? What eventually scared him off? Cool pictures!
 
shock
distinguished member(3885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/30/2020 07:26AM
dentondoc: "shock: "...a wolf would smell a person from a long ways off..."
I say, "generally true." However, I did have an occasion in Quetico once where I was standing at the end of a lake where it quickly narrowed into a stream. It was a windy day. As I stood there re-tieing my fishing line, I noticed movement on the opposite bank. I looked up to see a wolf angling toward the stream intent on getting a drink. When he was less than 30 feet away, I said "Hey" and he immediately put on the skids and retreated back over the ridge line from which he'd come with some haste. So the combination of wind noise, the fact that I was down wind of him and his focus on getting a drink made for an interesting episode.

Within 10 minutes, a deer crept up beside me (on my side of the stream) less than 20 feet away. It might have been VERY interesting had they shown up at the same time.

As for coyote or wolf, I'd say immature wolf. Ear and snout length and ear shape suggest wolf to me.

dd "
good point , yes being down wind of any game is good thing but i think the wolf was tracking the deer and just needed a drink , and i feel that adds more credibility in the O.P. it was not a wolf, they do not want people.
now if your in a true wilderness and it's a harsh winter , yeh a wolf or more may visit you , but in this situation , a wolf would smell a human from maybe 2 miles away , one reason why wolf sightings in the BW are scarce.
ANDa healthy coyote with a good coat , a #50 can look like a #70 , just look at any #55 samoyed , they look #75 .
you all be tripp'n LOL ;)
 
tumblehome
distinguished member(1727)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/30/2020 08:21AM
I met a wolf on a portage trail in Quetico several years ago. We sort of ran into each other and both somewhat surprised.

I was alone and walking back to retrieve some gear. He/she was alone too. We met at about 30’ apart. Both of us stopped and looked at each other. It was quite amazing. We each stood there for maybe five or ten seconds and then he/she turned into the woods and disappeared like a dream. And it was over.

I am a fierce advocate for the wolf.

Tom
 
Portage99
distinguished member (461)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/30/2020 08:15PM
tumblehome: "I met a wolf on a portage trail in Quetico several years ago. We sort of ran into each other and both somewhat surprised.


I was alone and walking back to retrieve some gear. He/she was alone too. We met at about 30’ apart. Both of us stopped and looked at each other. It was quite amazing. We each stood there for maybe five or ten seconds and then he/she turned into the woods and disappeared like a dream. And it was over.


I am a fierce advocate for the wolf.


Tom"


This same type of thing happened to me in Washington State on a lonesome road. I will never forget locking eyes with the wolf-then he turned and ran into the woods. It is really indescribable. I was not on foot nor as close as you were. Something special about them, for sure.
 
gravelroad
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09/30/2020 08:25PM
tumblehome:They were not counting wolves in 1900. They were certainly killing them. And they did a good job seeing how they were extirpated in Minnesota by the 1950's.
Tom"


This would have been news to the dead wolf I saw in an Embarrass farmyard in the mid 60s as a kid. And to some others of his kind:

"In Minnesota, a bounty on all predators, including wolves, continued until 1965. Between 1965 and 1974, Minnesota had an open season on wolves and a Directed Predator Control Program. During this time, about 250 wolves were taken each year and the wolf population was estimated at 350 to 700 animals. The state’s control program and open season continued until May 1974 when the gray wolf gained protection under the Endangered Species Act (ESA)."

Gray Wolf Recovery in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan
 
jbonewitz
 
10/01/2020 07:00AM
Portage99: "Yeah, he doesn't look aggressive in these shots. Just curious or checking something out. Did he get any closer? How long did he stay? What eventually scared him off? Cool pictures!"

He actually walked towards camp and was within 15 feet of us, where I was trying to secure the food pack. Figured he’d never leave off he found food. He walked over to a stump near the latrine trail, sniffed a little then walked slowly up the latrine trail, not having a care that we were yelling at him to leave. He didn’t stay long, maybe 2 minutes max, but long enough to scare the crap out of us.
 
tumblehome
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10/01/2020 10:23AM
I need to make a correction. Wolves were not extripated from Minneosota although humans tried to do that.
They were extripated from many parts of the US. I think my mind was on the extripation of wolves in Yellowstone.
Tom
 
Chieflonewatie
member (31)member
 
10/01/2020 11:01AM
They were considered gone in Wisconsin by 1960. Not back until the 1980's.
 
Pinetree
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10/01/2020 11:13AM
tumblehome: "I need to make a correction. Wolves were not extripated from Minneosota although humans tried to do that.
They were extripated from many parts of the US. I think my mind was on the extripation of wolves in Yellowstone.
Tom"


Minnesota was the last area in the lower 48 I think they were left, except or a pocket of which is called the red wolf out east and southwest. Yes as far back as 1870 if the fur market was good you would get $5.00 for the fur. Yes still remember in the 1950's people hunting wolf by airplanes.
There was a fair number of deer up along the north shore in the 1870's in fact the Minnesota legislature was worried about people using dogs to hunt and kill deer, often for the market.
Inland deer were far and few between, but moved north with the large fires, than probably shrunk again. Abundance increased in 1900's with logging.
The mid 1800's they talk about elk and caribou around Mille lacs lake even.
 
acanoer
member (42)member
 
10/01/2020 04:21PM
Chieflonewatie: "They were considered gone in Wisconsin by 1960. Not back until the 1980's."

Not common for sure in 60's and 70's put I saw wolf tracks in Wis. in both decades.

Now we have lot's of them.

Time to delist and control the numbers.
 
yogi59weedr
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10/01/2020 08:41PM
Once in a lifetime picture... awesome...
Have several Brandenburg prints in house... cool animal.
 
aholmgren
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10/02/2020 08:25AM


I posted on this MN Wolf Bounty a while back, some might find interesting.

Is this one a coyote or wolf? taken on MN Co Hwy 7


 
smoke11
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10/02/2020 10:41AM
my vote is wolf
 
MN_Lindsey
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10/02/2020 07:14PM
aholmgren: "


I posted on this MN Wolf Bounty a while back, some might find interesting.


Is this one a coyote or wolf? taken on MN Co Hwy 7


"


Definitely vote [young] wolf. There is a known increased presence right now of wolves in that area according to the Superior Hiking Trail Association Website. [The Finland area has been experiencing increased wolf activity. While there has not been any aggression shown towards humans, dogs are in particular danger in this location. For this and many other reasons, please keep your dog leashed on this and every section of the SHT. Wolves are a normal, natural part of the ecosystem on the North Shore.]
 
mvillasuso
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10/02/2020 07:28PM
Wolf; and I’m not guessing.
Coyotes are noticeably more delicate in their facial features.
Coyotes are fluffier.
Coyotes are significantly smaller than 75lb.
And that animal has characteristic coloration of a wolf.
That photo could be on a Wikipedia page. It’s a young wolf.
Likely 1.5 years.

...not afraid of you, eh?
They are VERY intelligent; they learn quickly from experience, and that animal has likely had no negative experiences with humans.

Definitely illegal, but if I’m tinkering around camp, and a wolf isn’t responding to me yelling and huffing at it, I’m firing rocks and sticks with intent and hostility, to show that that humans mean bad business.
Learning this lesson is best for the wolf; best for the next camper.
 
Northland
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10/02/2020 11:43PM
This is where wolf ID can get confusing. He definitely has a coyotish head, kind of "pointy" (for lack of a better term). But his body is thicker than a yote, and you can sort of imagine him being in the process of "filling out" the rest of his head. I'd say he's in his second year.
 
acanoer
member (42)member
 
10/03/2020 03:18PM
aholmgren: "


I posted on this MN Wolf Bounty a while back, some might find interesting.


Is this one a coyote or wolf? taken on MN Co Hwy 7


"


Wolf for sure look at the size of it paws no coyote will ever have paws that big
 
aholmgren
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10/08/2020 01:06PM
Thanks for the replies. I stopped my truck and got out as soon as I saw it standing in the road (1st picture) when to my surprise it didn't run but turned toward me and then started lopping down the road towards me, when it got close enough to make me nervous I got back in the cab and it strolled slowly by a few feet away (2nd picture), it slowed a few steps and gave a sniff toward my topper covered truck bed with my golden retriever in before leaving the road and entering the very wet woods.
 
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