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04/09/2021 12:08PM  
I tried to change a permit issuing station today for an upcoming trip. Used to be able to do this online, but that was not possible. So, I called rec.gov and was told I could not change the issuing station at all unless I cancel the reservation and rebook. The woman I spoke to claimed this was a US Forest Service decision. Not sure what the rationale behind this could be. This is not a huge deal in my case, just annoying.
 
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04/09/2021 01:19PM  
Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing that when I reserved my permit. It definitely does seem like a weird change though. Why specifically decide that people should no longer be able to change their pick up location? Did a few people ruin it for everyone else by causing problems? I could imagine that someone assigning it to the wrong station then changing it while at the desk and expecting it immediately might cause a few headaches, but a "no changes on the day of" restriction should be enough there.
 
Voyager
distinguished member (246)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/09/2021 06:09PM  
GR R R R, What a pain! I have 1 permit that will be virtual and another to pick up at an outfitter. I'm worried the F.S. might not get the last video, and then the permit to me in time. They mention shortly before your start date. I guess I'll have a better grasp of their procedure as people with Spring trips report how the process works.
 
04/09/2021 06:57PM  
They apparently changed that sometime after I changed my cooperator from a virtual to an in-person shortly after I got it on the first day. I was concerned about the scenario Voyager mentioned and could not get a clear answer from USFS on the process other than it wasn't going to happen until the day before your entry. There seemed to be too much potential for problems with that.
 
OMGitsKa
distinguished member (146)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/09/2021 07:09PM  
What if someone selects the complete wrong thing on accident lol. Yeah I don't see why you couldn't switch it up?
 
yogi59weedr
distinguished member(2361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/09/2021 10:58PM  
All the more reason for ......
If you get to where your permit.... once there...
Sit back and enjoy it.... aaaahhhhhhh.

 
04/10/2021 11:03AM  
Voyager North looked into this for me and got this reply from the US Forest Service:

” A coop to coop change will only be made for extraordinary circumstances that merit a change, not just convenience. This rule is being enforced this year and they are not changing these over unless it is an “extraordinary circumstance”.

I wonder if this is in somehow a response to the chaos that defined last year.
 
Zulu
distinguished member(1838)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/10/2021 12:16PM  
I use both Voyager North and Voyager Outfitters and I’m usually very careful about selecting the correct one and remembering which side I’m going to. I also avoid the third Voyager, The Outward Bound School.
Now I will be extra cautious and wear my reading glasses when choosing. A mistake could mean a lot of extra driving.

Thanks for looking into this Frenchy.
 
04/14/2021 01:23PM  
Frenchy19: "Voyager North looked into this for me and got this reply from the US Forest Service:


” A coop to coop change will only be made for extraordinary circumstances that merit a change, not just convenience. This rule is being enforced this year and they are not changing these over unless it is an “extraordinary circumstance”.


I wonder if this is in somehow a response to the chaos that defined last year."


Why do they even care? All this is done online and should be updated automatically. This response just reads like an grumpy old guy that is sick of dealing with indecisive people. Not very professional.

It looks like they are trying to raise money by getting people to cancel and rebook their trip and thus forfeiting their service charge. But the Forest Service doesn't keep the service fees, do they? I thought the company that manages the website gets that. Did they pressure the FS to implement this and make people think it was their idea? It bothers me when institutions find new ways to charge people to do the exact same thing they already do. Banks are a bad example of this.
 
Jasonf
senior member (56)senior membersenior member
 
04/14/2021 08:43PM  
This not being able make a change to permit pick-up location chaps me a little. When I make my reservation I am doing so just to get my EP on the books, then I go back closer to the trip and add/subtract paddlers and move my permit pick-up location after more trip planning.
 
04/14/2021 10:38PM  
I don't see any point to it and don't know why they changed that. I suggest you all complain to them about it. I already complained about the way they were doing the virtual.
 
scotttimm
distinguished member (462)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/16/2021 09:15AM  
New changes, details here
 
Porkeater
distinguished member (158)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/16/2021 09:30AM  
This update is clear as mud. When I log into Recreation.gov and look at my reservation, with Gunflint ranger station selected as the issuing station, it says "VIRTUAL ONLY - PERMIT EMAILED BY USFS UPON COMPLETION OF LNT REQUIREMENT." However, also on my reservation page, there is a "Facility Message" that is a truncated version of the same update posted above. In that update, it says that the Gunflint Ranger station is operating in person. I'm emailing the FS for clarification. I'll update this if I receive a reply.
 
04/16/2021 10:32AM  
Porkeater: "This update is clear as mud. When I log into Recreation.gov and look at my reservation, with Gunflint ranger station selected as the issuing station, it says "VIRTUAL ONLY - PERMIT EMAILED BY USFS UPON COMPLETION OF LNT REQUIREMENT." However, also on my reservation page, there is a "Facility Message" that is a truncated version of the same update posted above. In that update, it says that the Gunflint Ranger station is operating in person. I'm emailing the FS for clarification. I'll update this if I receive a reply. "

How the hell are you supposed to print your permit the day before if you're not at home? I know they say that you can show it virtually, but that means you better bring your phone AND make sure it doesn't die.

It says that you can choose virtual or in-person. Does anyone know if the rangers stations plan to be open and you can just show up and virtual is just an option if you prefer avoid going into the office?
 
scotttimm
distinguished member (462)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/16/2021 10:34AM  
brux: "Porkeater: "This update is clear as mud. When I log into Recreation.gov and look at my reservation, with Gunflint ranger station selected as the issuing station, it says "VIRTUAL ONLY - PERMIT EMAILED BY USFS UPON COMPLETION OF LNT REQUIREMENT." However, also on my reservation page, there is a "Facility Message" that is a truncated version of the same update posted above. In that update, it says that the Gunflint Ranger station is operating in person. I'm emailing the FS for clarification. I'll update this if I receive a reply. "


How the hell are you supposed to print your permit the day before if you're not at home? I know they say that you can show it virtually, but that means you better bring your phone AND make sure it doesn't die.


It says that you can choose virtual or in-person. Does anyone know if the rangers stations plan to be open and you can just show up and virtual is just an option if you prefer avoid going into the office? "


I started a new thread on this topic New LNT Requirements
 
04/16/2021 11:19AM  
Porkeater, et.al., I corresponded with SNF in Jan about the virtual permit and printing, etc. At that time I was told it didn't need to be printed, that you could just carry your phone with it, but make sure you it had enough charge to show the permit if requested . . .

I had changed to Duluth Pack Store for in-person pickup as the situation was even less clear at that time and was only virtual. I logged into my reservation and there are no messages for me . . .

Originally you could only do the virtual the day before entry same as permit issuance. Permit issuance has always been restricted to the day of or day before. At least there's an extra 24 hours for that.

See other thread for link to original SNF news release, not reposting by Boreal org.
 
04/16/2021 03:04PM  
While you can call to change from a Ranger issuing station to a coop, expect to spend a good 30 minutes minimum on hold. Lovely system.
 
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