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giddyup
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04/13/2021 03:43PM  
Does anyone have plans or directions/guidance on how to make and install a rudder system for a canoe? There is a fair amount out there about installing a rudder system on a kayak but nothing for canoes. I am not “handy” but know someone who is. If I can round up some instructions on how to make it, and install it, he can get the job done.
 
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MikeinMpls
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04/13/2021 04:12PM  
Can you explain why you want a rudder for your canoe? Just curious, that's all.

Mike
 
giddyup
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04/13/2021 04:13PM  
The majority of the experienced MR340 canoe paddlers for the race last year had rudders. They say there is an advantage for the long haul, I’m assuming in energy expenditure. If the stern paddlers feet are doing the steering, 100% of his/her stroke is forward propulsion rather than correction. There is a lot of crossing back and forth across the Missouri River to stay in the channel. The experienced canoe paddlers and the fasted canoe paddlers had rudders. If you can’t beat them, join them. (We were no where close to beating them.)
 
Savage Voyageur
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04/13/2021 04:50PM  
I’ve never seen a rudder for a canoe. Do you have any pictures from the race that would show a rudder. Curious what they look like.
 
MikeinMpls
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04/13/2021 05:35PM  
giddyup: "The majority of the experienced MR340 canoe paddlers for the race last year had rudders. They say there is an advantage for the long haul, I’m assuming in energy expenditure. If the stern paddlers feet are doing the steering, 100% of his/her stroke is forward propulsion rather than correction. There is a lot of crossing back and forth across the Missouri River to stay in the channel. The experienced canoe paddlers and the fasted canoe paddlers had rudders. If you can’t beat them, join them. (We were no where close to beating them.) "

Got it. I understand. I know nothing of canoe racing and apparently that's a thing. I appreciate the information. I have never seen a rudder for a canoe. Interested in what you have in mind.

Mike
 
giddyup
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04/13/2021 06:15PM  
I didn’t have the forethought to take any pictures, unfortunately. That would have been helpful to anyone who can see and do.
 
billconner
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04/13/2021 06:38PM  
A rudder used to be a factory option on the SR Tranquility. I spoke with a Q ranger about it. In Googling, apparently told this story before.
Tranquility
 
gsfisher13
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04/13/2021 06:42PM  
Sent you an email.
 
martoonie
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04/13/2021 07:02PM  
Lots of canoe rudder stuff on line.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvouQjtCsI
 
jdoutdoors
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04/13/2021 08:51PM  
Savage Voyageur: "I’ve never seen a rudder for a canoe. Do you have any pictures from the race that would show a rudder. Curious what they look like. "

The Wenonah Fusion has one! It is optional and can be added later, so maybe the OP could talk Wenonah into selling it to them, but it's a painfully small blade and would need to be upgraded to have any decent control authority.
 
Voyager
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04/14/2021 07:31AM  
I just finished putting a rudder on my Blackwater and put one on my Voyager a few years ago for the K/W Challenge. They are great for the long haul and wind paddling. It's all about conservation of energy.

On the Voyager, I attached the Smart Track pedal system to the foot brace rails. They were heavier than I wanted though. On the Blackwater I ordered just the pedals, which slide over the foot brace tubing, from Llama Racks.

Two MR 340 paddlers, Ryan Slebos and Ryan Milby came up with a rudder system. You can order all, or parts, from them. Very helpful. I use a Smart Track blade assembly, the long pin version, a gudgeon that you can buy on Amazon, and Q Powerline (a wind surfer kite line ) for the cable. I ran it through an irrigation tubing. (Paid $ 4.00 on Amazon for 50 ft.) I glued on coaxial cable clips to attach the tubing. (Haven't field tested those yet.) You can glass in short pieces of carbon arrows instead. The system on my Blackwater only added # 3.

I'll try to get some photos up in the next couple of days. The MR 340 is on my bucket list. Maybe next year. I'm no racer, only a fitness and recreational paddler. Muddyfeet has a rudder on the carbon canoe he built for the Kruger, and I heard a rumor that BeaV has added one to his Advantage for this year (unsubstantiated).
 
Chieflonewatie
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04/14/2021 07:39AM  
Could you even use this in the BW?
 
Speckled
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04/14/2021 07:44AM  
giddyup: "The majority of the experienced MR340 canoe paddlers for the race last year had rudders. They say there is an advantage for the long haul, I’m assuming in energy expenditure. If the stern paddlers feet are doing the steering, 100% of his/her stroke is forward propulsion rather than correction. There is a lot of crossing back and forth across the Missouri River to stay in the channel. The experienced canoe paddlers and the fasted canoe paddlers had rudders. If you can’t beat them, join them. (We were no where close to beating them.) "

Interesting. I wonder if different gear or techniques are regional or if maybe the rudder improvement/addition is a newer thing? 10-15 years ago I used to race canoes and kayaks. Competed in a handful of races in MN and WI. Never saw a rudder on a canoe...although I never competed in a race of the magnitude of the MR340...so maybe that's difference. 1 to 3 hour sprints the added weight vs efficiency vs drag...I don't know.

The MR340 is intriguing though. Would be fun to take on!
 
yellowcanoe
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04/14/2021 07:51AM  
Got one on my Mad River Monarch.. It is a sea canoe and the rudder is very handy for keeping course in wind.

Canoe rudders are not widespread that is for sure.
 
04/14/2021 11:37AM  
Chieflonewatie: "Could you even use this in the BW?"

I was wondering about this as well since it could fall under the mechanical advantage category.

What about weight though? I would think that a foot peddle rudder system would weigh a significant amount. I wouldn't want to add 10lbs to my canoe. It would also throw off the balance for portaging.
 
Voyager
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04/14/2021 05:24PM  
Here are some photos on my solo canoe. Keep in mind there are several ways to skin a cat.
 
Voyager
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04/14/2021 05:33PM  
A few more.
 
Savage Voyageur
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04/14/2021 05:48PM  
Very nice setup Voyager. That is a quality build. Thanks for the pictures.
 
04/14/2021 06:29PM  
Voyager: "A few more. "

Canoe Crack.
 
giddyup
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04/15/2021 12:44PM  
Thanks for the comments and pictures, as well as the links. Thanks, Greg for your I put, too.

Voyageur, do you have any contact info for the two MR340 paddlers Ryan Slebos and Ryan Milby? I have heard their names. Or maybe a site where I could take a look at their rudder system that is for purchase? I’m not a Facebook person so that limits me quite a bit.

 
Voyager
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04/15/2021 02:18PM  
You can contact Ryan Milby via Llamaracks.com. His phone number is there I believe. He is very eager to help. I don't know what the entire set-up cost. I paid $45. for the pedals, 1 aluminum sleeve to slide over the skinny part of the foot brace tube, and 3 clamps.
 
04/17/2021 05:49PM  
yellowcanoe: "Got one on my Mad River Monarch.. It is a sea canoe and the rudder is very handy for keeping course in wind.


Canoe rudders are not widespread that is for sure."


I also have a Monarch and it's definitely true that less energy is needed for long hauls when you don't have to use correction strokes. You can also just hit to one side for as long as you want, a rudder is a pretty serious advantage in a canoe marathon!
 
04/19/2021 10:56AM  
Canoe rudders..to have or not to have? I love simplicity and hate extra gear...but I have used canoe rudders so I love canoe rudders. For solo boats or other boats where long distance and efficiency matters- a rudder is worth the complication and extra gear.

I have one that came with my Kruger Sea Wind. I paddled and portaged it on a 173-day trip, and couldn't come up with anything I'd do different to make it better. So last year when a Friend and I both wanted to put one on a Merlin and an Advantage, I tried to buy a couple from Kruger Canoes. Sadly, Mark the owner was fighting cancer and later died. So we ended up making our own "Kruger" rudders ourselves.

We got the one installed on the Merlin and on the maiden voyage, the rudder was credited with preventing the canoe from wiggling so much, possibly preventing death on Basswood Lake, and completing a huge solo trip despite nasty winds. Sounded like it worked.

Now I'm finishing my install.


 
giddyup
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04/19/2021 02:07PM  
Thanks, BeaV for your input.

I’m so glad to hear that it has been beneficial and worthwhile for you. Now I’m in the process of figuring out how to make it happen. I need to have a system that is problem free. I don’t want to end up being slowed down and sidelined by problems with a rudder that I had installed to be faster and more efficient.
 
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