BWCA Notification on recreation.gov re: multiple permits Boundary Waters Trip Planning Forum
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schweady
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01/15/2022 12:04PM  
While nosing around recreation.gov, I saw this notification:

* When a permit holder makes multiple reservations on the same entry date or has overlapping reservations, all but one permit will automatically be cancelled, and the cancelled permits will be returned to the BWCAW quota inventory. Permit holders will not be notified prior to cancellation. 
* A permit holder can only lead one group at a time and must stay with their group for the duration of the trip. Reserving only one permit at a time ensures everyone has an opportunity to reserve a permit. 
* The “one permit per day per permit holder” rule applies to everyone reserving a permit.

Is this new wording? While I need to say that I totally agree with the rule, and I think that the automatic cancellation action has been taken in the past -- especially last year -- I was wondering whether it was something that has been posted on the site for a while now and I never took note.

Buyer beware!
 
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mpswid0
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01/15/2022 01:12PM  
I can't speak to how long, or even if, this has been going on in the past, but I actually thought that some jerk could go in and get a couple permits for the same day and same entry point and then have a reduced amount of people to compete with for campsites and such. I guess someone else had the same thought that I did. I wonder how fast they will be to cancel the other permits.

Matt
schweady
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01/15/2022 01:39PM  
Matt - There were also anecdotes on this site last year of the automatic cancellation of same-day, same-owner permits which had been drawn for separate entry points. Hooray, I say. They were fussing about their first choice being canceled. Cancel all of them, I say. If you’re so desperate to travel together in an overly large group, how hard would it be to have a buddy get his/her own username and make the second reservation?
01/15/2022 02:03PM  
schweady: "Matt - There were also anecdotes on this site last year of the automatic cancellation of same-day, same-owner permits which had been drawn for separate entry points. Hooray, I say. They were fussing about their first choice being canceled. Cancel all of them, I say. If you’re so desperate to travel together in an overly large group, how hard would it be to have a buddy get his/her own username and make the second reservation?
"


For a donation of $38 you can reduce the human impact on the BWCA.
schweady
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01/15/2022 02:11PM  
plander: "For a donation of $38 you can reduce the human impact on the BWCA. "
Although I suspect that it's a current strategy for some, I'll hope that your comment was tongue-in-cheek.

I'll go on record in favor of recreation.gov and USFS tracking permit reservation no-shows and banning repeat offenders.
tumblehome
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01/15/2022 04:26PM  
I think last year it was worded such that they might cancel a duplicate reservation but I’m not sure.

We have read many times about people reserving overlapping permits and then picking one to keep prior to their trip.

I suppose someone could reserve multiple reservations to reduce permits for a given day on a given entry but in reality it is probably not common. They would also draw up plans to eliminate a freeway and put an intersection on the new parkway. Cross thread bonus points!
Northwoodsman
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01/16/2022 10:10AM  
I assume the term "overlapping permit" refers to an individual being listed on more than one permit and not referring do the anticipated trip dates since only the EP date is carved in stone. It would be nice if the system could automatically cancel a previous permit if a new one was booked for the same date and giving you a warning such as "any previously issued permit for this date for this date will be cancelled, do you wish to proceed?" instead of just randomly picking one of them.
schweady
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01/16/2022 04:40PM  
Northwoodsman: "I assume the term "overlapping permit" refers to an individual being listed on more than one permit and not referring do the anticipated trip dates since only the EP date is carved in stone. It would be nice if the system could automatically cancel a previous permit if a new one was booked for the same date and giving you a warning such as "any previously issued permit for this date for this date will be cancelled, do you wish to proceed?" instead of just randomly picking one of them."
Since they are overnight permits, I could see a justification for cancellation of one of any two same-leader permits with consecutive dates. Technicality, sure.

As far as which one to automatically cancel, my vote goes to random picking. Sorry, not sorry.
billconner
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01/16/2022 05:58PM  
iirc, there use to be a limited exception for church group leaders to reserve multiple permits. That still there?

I don't care personally, as l never reserve more than one and that is as likely as not to be in while driving there.
schweady
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01/16/2022 08:27PM  
billconner: "iirc, there use to be a limited exception for church group leaders to reserve multiple permits. That still there?


I don't care personally, as l never reserve more than one and that is as likely as not to be in while driving there."

I’ve been reserving church group trips for 20-some years. This doesn’t exactly answer your question, but this year I was encouraged to reserve online as a non-profit so that “anyone from the church could pick up the permit.” We routinely fill out the forms to save the sales tax on our trip expenses, etc, but this permit exception, if true, seems an unnecessary “benefit.”
Gaidin53
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01/16/2022 09:42PM  
I had heard that this was going to be a change this year from my outfitter. Apparently they were correct. I had two permits once the fire closure got announced last year when I was scrambling like everyone else to still get a canoe trip. Eventually the one got cancelled because it was truly closed closer to the date. They had told me that they were going to make a change this year and that the same permit holder wouldn’t be allowed to have two different permits on the same day.

I think it’s a good thing. It’s an area someone can abuse and they are closing the ability. Someone who really wants to could just have a different person in the group that is an adult pull another permit though so it’s not like it’s full proof.

Ryan
 
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