Ain't it wonderfully strange how our Heaven, that is wilderness paddling, is someone else's Hell? And I'm not just talking about the Kardashians, those attention and luxury addicts, who would be amusingly miserable in the woods and on the water. There are millions of people between Kardashians and us who'd also be miserable. They'd swat at non-existent bugs and count three mosquitoes as a swarm. They'd whine about pooing in the woods and see bears everywhere. They'd pack a mirror! All the things that add up to our collective bliss would be their dysbliss, their abyss.

Going back to this thread's title, it's strange because we love our wilderness trips and it's wonderful because if these people were there, we wouldn't. What top five things would they hate and miss? Here are my guesses:

1. Bathroom
2. Bed
3. Starbucks
4. Walls
5. Refrigeration

What are your guesses as to what they'd miss or hate most?

Someone please delete this double post. First time I've ever done this. I posted and it didn't appear, so I reposted and saw there were two.

What would they hate or miss the most?

1. Electronics: Cell Phone and/or TV
2. Portages
3. Paddling into a strong wind
4. Being windbound for 2 or 3 days
5. Very close lightning strikes

Where do I begin?!
My friends and family think I either have a death wish or am insane for loving solo camping. My buddies wife, after overhearing my May trip plans, proudly announced that she had never and planned to ever "GO" anywhere outside of a proper powder room. There was also mention of "hovering"?? when using public facilities.
I have never been to a Starbucks (I live out in the toolies) My first introduction to drinking coffee was "cowboy coffee" boiled over a camp fire in the boundry waters. Could not have been more perfect! Mocachinolattadoubleshot that!
How can I sleep on the ground in a tent surrounded by wolves and bears and big foots (big feet?) thirsting for my blood? Like a baby.
I know people that think wilderness is what is on the other side of the fairway at a public golf course and drinking their booze and beer warm is something they only do in England.
I don't try to educate people to the wonderfulness of the BWCA anymore, there is already too much competition for campsites.

Can we go glamping?
1. the sounds of silence
2. drinking lake water (especially near beaver dams:-))
3. the smell of the human body
4. the water faucet and light switch
5. the daily news and gossip

This is great.

1) they would miss a climate controlled environment.

2) they would hate to slow down, tune into nature, their five senses and observe the beauty surrounding them.

3) they would miss social media and what everyone else is eating for dinner.

4) they would hate the “work” of a trip; traveling, camp chores, etc.

5) and they would miss the “fine dining” experience of their favorite restaurants they patronize each week. Because cooking is too much work…


JW

NO McDonalds!!!! THE END IS NEAR.

What I believe they'd hate or miss the most:

1) Facebook, Twitter, Tik Tok and all those other applications I don't use
2) Food delivery services
3) No access to Amazon
4) The Bachelor TV show
5) Having to be self-sufficient

Aaahhh, the heck with those people, they can stay home.

What they will miss:

1. Water pressure. Ever notice how many people wash their dishes under the water spigot at a campground despite the signs that tell them not to? They don't necessarily want the water, they want the water pressure.

2. Background noise: I think some people become uncomfortable, perhaps unconsciously, in the absence of noises they are used to. If you're always used to the big city in your ears, the still of the wilderness might be a bit of a freak out.

3. Immediate gratification: the wilderness works on its own time, not TikTok's. Being wind bound sucks, but you just might have to sit tight an extra day. Updating your Facebook might have to wait!

What they will not like:

1. Pooping: in a hole with other people's poop in it.

2. Wet feet: it's only a million acres of wetness. I know it's a bit of a controversial topic, but I simply cannot understand how people can expect to keep their feet dry. In terms of being a wet footer, I'm probably a stubborn curmudgeon. However, the need to keep one's feet dry will inevitably lead to...

3. Wet clothing: I've seen more than enough canoes dump. The vast majority of them dump within five feet of the portage take out when people lose their balance trying to keep their feet dry.

4. The combination of heat, humidity, bugs, and mud. Things can get miserable pretty quickly especially if these things are a surprise.

5. 80° one day. 35° the next. Sunny in the morning, raining in the afternoon, then sunny, then rainy again. Then maybe a chance of snow. Or not.

6. Adaptation. Sometimes you just gotta make do with what you're given. The rock you have to sleep on, the rain you have to paddle through, and the wind you have to paddle into.

I'm doing far too many things in order to avoid work today.

Mike

I've got no beef with anyone who just likes other things and settings more, but people who are utterly terrified or repulsed by the idea of spending time in the wilderness really make me sad. The vast majority of our species' time in this world has been spent without the vast majority of the things that those people take for granted and refuse to be separated from. If removing oneself from modern human existence isn't one's jam, fine, but to act as if it is utterly unthinkable really tempts me to think of them as a bit of a failure of an organism--incredibly fragile at the very least.

And it isn't that I don't appreciate modern living. I play video games. I love TV and movies. I love cars and even make my living these days with my own auto detailing business. I appreciate many things sartorial and love every chance I have to actually dress in one of my properly tailored suits. I utilize so many public services, have a modern home with electricity, plumbing, laundry machines, central air... I absolutely love visiting restaurants. However, I maintain perspective and never take any of those things for granted or get too upset if I ever have to be without any of them against my will.

Miss:
1) Cell phone
2) Internet
3) Toilet
4) Shower/Bathtub
5) Couch


Hate:
1) Sleeping on the ground
2) Portaging
3) Drinking lake water
4) Bugs, Leeches, etc.
5) Being alone with one's own thoughts

PineKnot: "What would they hate or miss the most?


5. Very close lightning strikes
"

I love being in the wilderness but I DEFINITELY hate this

Fun thread - all I had to do was ask Sangfroid.
Her response:

safety
comfort
warmth
running water
the internet.... you know, just the little things.

She says, "I don't pay for danger".

The ability to have someone else immediately take care of your problems.

Entertainment, comfort, safety, food, transportation.

The ability to avoid your mind wandering freely.

I think variety is something people are going to miss while camping the most. It's not like you can just decide you want Chinese food one night or a mixed cocktail. Entertainment, that isn't the wilderness, is limited to what you bring with as well. The scenery is pretty close to the same too. If you don't appreciate the little details, then it is easy to get bored. My dad described it this way: Every corner you go around, it's the most beautiful scenery you've ever seen. Eventually you get numb to it. Often, you don't even appreciate it until you get home and look at the pictures.

Even more so in the winter. Most people think its crazy to spend nights in a tent in -40 weather and I'm glad they do as it makes solitude easier to achieve.

A1t2o: "I think variety is something people are going to miss while camping the most. It's not like you can just decide you want Chinese food one night or a mixed cocktail. Entertainment, that isn't the wilderness, is limited to what you bring with as well. The scenery is pretty close to the same too. If you don't appreciate the little details, then it is easy to get bored. My dad described it this way: Every corner you go around, it's the most beautiful scenery you've ever seen. Eventually you get numb to it. Often, you don't even appreciate it until you get home and look at the pictures."

Remember when Kanoes/Jan announced that he was quitting paddling and was going to sell his gear? He cited the sameness of the wilderness as one of his reasons. I agree with that you seeing the difference in details is a difference maker. My dad and I were fishing a lake on the edge of Quetico once and I remember seeing a tree I'd never seen in the Canadian Shield before that moment. There are many people who would mock my excitement at that moment, but I still remember where I saw it and I could take you back to that tree because it's stuck with me.

The comments about silence also strike me as insightful. I think city people do acclimate to noise. I was in NYC for the holidays and although I've been there many times, starting in 1965, the noise discomforted me. I wondered how New Yorkers bear it, but I think they'd find a quiet lake to be discomforting too.

I'd add the noises of the night to my list. I'm acclimated to them, but the first night or two have me sleeping lightly as all the nocturnal critters rise and mosey.

Mostly, I think the thing people hate is being challenged to experience living outside of their learned and accepted comfort zone. I have plenty of friends say they hate camping because of all the reasons listed above, but ultimately still find ways to get outdoors. Maybe they don't do camping like I do, but they still find ways to experience the beauty of nature in their own comfort zone.

Oh, and technically I pack a mirror. It is on my compass. Probably one of the best survival items to have.

But to answer the question, from what I have heard they hate/miss its:

1. the inability to get satisfactory clean, always having dirty fingernails, having greasy hair, sweating. Not being able to shower everyday. Reminds me of this time when I was in camp by a portage on Pine Lake as I was hiking the BRT. This group of men and boys come through and immediately bathe in the water at the portage, using soap and everything. After talking to them I find out this was their last portage until getting to the vehicle. I was just confused then as to why they needed to bathe now and not just wait until the shower that evening? That and how rude it was to bathe right in the area where I needed access to drinking water.
2. Bugs, mosquitos, ticks, deerflies. How many times have I seen a "Bug Report" thread on this site? Why ask? There is going to be bugs.
3. Work to get somewhere just to work more. Paddeling all day, portaging, setting up a tent, gathering wood, etc. I find all of that enjoyable, but others just say it's work.
4. No easy entertainment. Like being able to play an electronic game, watch television, cruise the internet, shop.
5. Weather that has to be lived in. Windy? Still got to paddle. Rainy? Still got to cook.
6. Limited food options or being afraid of not having enough.

mschi772: "I've got no beef with anyone who just likes other things and settings more, but people who are utterly terrified or repulsed by the idea of spending time in the wilderness really make me sad. The vast majority of our species' time in this world has been spent without the vast majority of the things that those people take for granted and refuse to be separated from. If removing oneself from modern human existence isn't one's jam, fine, but to act as if it is utterly unthinkable really tempts me to think of them as a bit of a failure of an organism--incredibly fragile at the very least.

And it isn't that I don't appreciate modern living. I play video games. I love TV and movies. I love cars and even make my living these days with my own auto detailing business. I appreciate many things sartorial and love every chance I have to actually dress in one of my properly tailored suits. I utilize so many public services, have a modern home with electricity, plumbing, laundry machines, central air... I absolutely love visiting restaurants. However, I maintain perspective and never take any of those things for granted or get too upset if I ever have to be without any of them against my will.

"

I can relate to this quite a bit. I appreciate modern luxuries (although I live without many of the basic/lowest-tier luxuries that many people have). I enjoy these luxuries immensely and am always grateful to have them in my life. However, I do prefer roughing it in the woods and near water.

Wonderful thread. Many moons ago I started dating a great gal. However, when I suggested we do a weekend of paddling/camping, her first question was, "How would I plug in my hair dryer?"

We didn't make it very far past then. Still a great lady, tho.

What a great thread, missmolly! Makes me realize just how lucky I am that my wife/best friend loves the Canoe Country just as much as I do. We both hate those close lightning strikes, though!!

TZ

I think we need more people to see the negatives of the wilderness experience so they never participate. And hopefully, many of the people recently new to it will decide they don't like it and cease to participate. Too much of life these days is over crowded.

deerfoot: "I think we need more people to see the negatives of the wilderness experience so they never participate. And hopefully, many of the people recently new to it will decide they don't like it and cease to participate. Too much of life these days is over crowded. "

This land is your land and this land is my land...

DRob1992: "

deerfoot: "I think we need more people to see the negatives of the wilderness experience so they never participate. And hopefully, many of the people recently new to it will decide they don't like it and cease to participate. Too much of life these days is over crowded. "

This land is your land and this land is my land..."

"... especially in the shoulder seasons..."

For many years when he was still working, my husband took our canoe trip books (first big photo albums with narrative included, later on books made on Snapfish with photos and text) to work with him and shared with his coworkers. Male and female. The primary comment was : "My idea of 'roughing it' is the Holiday Inn!' and that only is amusing the first four or five times. If that.

What they said they would hate:

1. Being out in the weather. Put in your favorite weather here: cold, rain, sun, heat, wind, sleet, etc. They seemed to consider canoeing a "fair-weather activity" only. Would only go if guaranteed 70 degrees, sunshine, and water like a mirror.

2. No bathroom facilities. "How do you STAND that?" (Comment usually directed at me rather than the man of the family.)

3. No access to telephone. We stopped our trips in 2013, so cell phone wasn't as much of a factor as it would be now, but the idea of not being able to contact family, emergency services, order a pizza, etc. was scary.

4. Bugs, mice, furry critters of all kinds. "Aren't you afraid of bears?" "Do you take a gun?"

5. Silence. So many people said that they couldn't stand not having the radio, the TV, the stereo, the general noise of daily life.

Other comments: "This isn't a vacation, it is WORK!" "Aren't you afraid to sleep out there with no one else around?" "It must be so uncomfortable to sleep on the ground!" "Oh, I really envy you. I would LOVE to do a trip like that!" (usually spoken by a person who wouldn't last a day in the BWCA without being ready to head back to the entry point.)

I am now coming around this May to nine years since my last canoe trip. From this perspective, keeping in mind that I still visit the Gunflint Trail for at least a week every summer. . .here is what I miss:

1. The excitement of starting out on a trip of many days, wondering what new adventures we will encounter.

2. Moose.

3. Portaging. Yes, this one sort of surprises me. There is something about the feeling of coming over that hill and seeing the new lake at the end of a hard portage that gave me a feeling of physical competence and accomplishment that I have rarely gotten anywhere else in my life.

4. The variety of different campsites, different locations. We didn't basecamp, so we really did visit a number of wonderful lakes, and some not so wonderful, too.

5. The feel of that first hot shower after being out for a couple weeks.

You might notice I didn't say that I miss being disconnected, as we stay in a cabin where we do not have connectivity unless we make an effort to get to it. No TV, no radio, no phone, no wi-fi. And I don't need to miss silence, as I can find it during my cabin weeks on the Gunflint. Even with my husband and my granddaughter, there are great moments of silence and peace. I still get to paddle, and I still hear the loons. It isn't the same, but it is very good, and I am thankful.

deerfoot: "

DRob1992: "

deerfoot: "I think we need more people to see the negatives of the wilderness experience so they never participate. And hopefully, many of the people recently new to it will decide they don't like it and cease to participate. Too much of life these days is over crowded. "

This land is your land and this land is my land..."

"... especially in the shoulder seasons...""

All seasons brotha

Spartan2: "Portaging. Yes, this one sort of surprises me. There is something about the feeling of coming over that hill and seeing the new lake at the end of a hard portage that gave me a feeling of physical competence and accomplishment that I have rarely gotten anywhere else in my life."

Because I'm always carrying the canoe, Tia is out in front on each portage, letting me know when I might have low overhead clearance. When I hear her shout "water!", I know we're near portage end and I'm smiling...

TZ

missmolly: "

A1t2o: "I think variety is something people are going to miss while camping the most. It's not like you can just decide you want Chinese food one night or a mixed cocktail. Entertainment, that isn't the wilderness, is limited to what you bring with as well. The scenery is pretty close to the same too. If you don't appreciate the little details, then it is easy to get bored. My dad described it this way: Every corner you go around, it's the most beautiful scenery you've ever seen. Eventually you get numb to it. Often, you don't even appreciate it until you get home and look at the pictures."

Remember when Kanoes/Jan announced that he was quitting paddling and was going to sell his gear? He cited the sameness of the wilderness as one of his reasons. I agree with that you seeing the difference in details is a difference maker. My dad and I were fishing a lake on the edge of Quetico once and I remember seeing a tree I'd never seen in the Canadian Shield before that moment. There are many people who would mock my excitement at that moment, but I still remember where I saw it and I could take you back to that tree because it's stuck with me.
"

I think Kanoes' outlook may have been in light of a terrible secret he was carrying but not free to share. He may not have even meant what he had said so that he could sell his equipment with fewer questions asked.

In any case, nature certainly marked Jan's passing. I was sitting out on my back deck smoking a cigar (pre-stroke) in California. At about the right time, a brilliant meteor passed from east to west, horizon to horizon. I did not know that Jan had also passed but I found out a couple of days later.

I was always more aware of my surroundings when I was solo. Vision, sound, smells, everything.