BWCA Can a person be listed on two permits if they aren't the permit holder? Boundary Waters Trip Planning Forum
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Earl B
Guest Paddler
 
08/14/2022 09:20AM  
My family is planning on a trip(s) soon. Three of my cousins are going on an outdoorsy adult trip while myself and 6 other family members will be doing a base camp family camping trip, we will have two small children with us. The cousin with the permit for the adult trip has to unexpectedly leave a day or two before the rest. We also found put my sister with the kids (on the permit I hold) also needs to leave early too.

Can I list my two cousins who don't need to leave early on my permit as well and have them just join my campsite for the last two nights after my cousin and sisters family leave? The cousins staying would be listed twice as guests on two different permits. My permit would have 9 people listed. We would not have more than 5-7 people at my campsite at any given time and no more than 4 boats either.
 
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Earl B
Guest Paddler
 
08/14/2022 09:35AM  
-edit: The cousins will be going deeper in and will be doing a more adventurous trip than my group with two small children and city people.
Duboly
distinguished member (354)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2022 10:04AM  
The persons staying the longest should be listed as the main permit holder as when the main permit holder leaves the BW the permit becomes invalid. “https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd611535.pdf”
The person staying the longest should be added as an alternate then can be changed to the leader when the permit is picked up.
Earl B
Guest Paddler
 
08/14/2022 10:09AM  
Its too late to add an alternate permit holder at this point. My specific question is if the guests can be listed on two permits if the permit holder if different.
08/14/2022 10:14AM  
I would suggest calling the USFS Superior Forest supervisor's office for a definitive answer. Number can be found online.
Duboly
distinguished member (354)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/14/2022 11:11AM  
I would think that it's perfectly fine as the Forest Service would love the added revenue and your group still would be 9 or under people. Let us know what you find out and have a great trip!
HayRiverDrifter
distinguished member(851)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2022 08:15AM  
Like was stated, you would need to pay for them on both permits. I don't see an issue.
straighthairedcurly
distinguished member(1564)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2022 09:21AM  
It really shouldn't be an issue. They will always be covered by a permit and it feels to be in the spirit of the regulations. They aren't denying someone else a permit who would otherwise get one. Yes, they will be paying twice, but that cost is minimal in the big picture.
gravelroad
distinguished member(755)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/15/2022 12:23PM  
Two of your cousins are about to have a shorter trip than they were hoping for.

“ TRAVEL PERMITS
You must enter the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) at the entry point and on the date shown on your permit.
You may not enter/re-enter at a different point or date using this permit.
Permit and stubs become invalid when the trip leader exits the wilderness.”

I.e., they will have to leave when the leader listed on that group permit leaves, as their group permit is invalid at that point.

They can’t join your group because they will not have entered on your group permit.

BWCAW Rules and Regulations

I will be very surprised if the USFS responds in a contrary way.
schweady
distinguished member(7891)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/15/2022 01:20PM  
gravelroad, you may be technically correct, and I try to fall on the side of "nobody should be listed on more than one permit for identical days." (Usually, I have confined that to trip leaders and alternates) But try to imagine the real-world encounters with Forest personnel and the record keeping that would be required for the enforcement you envision.
1. Prior to the switch, they encounter the cousins group, noting the number in the group *and the names listed*.
2. Subsequent to the switch, they encounter the family group, noting the number in the group *and the names listed*.
3. Matching the common names, they inquire as to which group they accompanied upon entry.

I think they may have bigger fish to fry.

PS The harder questions may be encountered from an ethical gatekeeper at the time of issuing the permit.
08/15/2022 01:58PM  
As long as the other people entering later can reach you in one day, they should be fine by filling out a day permit when they enter. Obviously, once the group leader leaves, the permit is no longer valid.

schweady
distinguished member(7891)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
08/15/2022 05:06PM  
egknuti: "As long as the other people entering later can reach you in one day, they should be fine by filling out a day permit when they enter. Obviously, once the group leader leaves, the permit is no longer valid.


"

Nobody's entering later. One permit leader is leaving early. Different scenario.
LazyLefty
distinguished member (284)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/31/2022 06:51AM  
Earl B: "Its too late to add an alternate permit holder at this point. My specific question is if the guests can be listed on two permits if the permit holder if different."

I've never inquired about it before but can one add an alternate when you pick up your permit?
08/31/2022 02:41PM  
The alternate is somebody you designate when you get the permit who can pick up the permit if you're not there. Since you are there picking up the permit, there would be no reason to designate an alternate then.
 
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