My brother and I are going to Malberg lake with some very experienced friends. We were hoping to use our frame packs but the group leader is insisting that we use Canoe packs. Is it really that much different? Frame packs are so light weight and easy to carry. This is my first trip to the BWCA so any help is appreciated.

Frame packs can be cumbersome for loading and unloading and storing in a canoe- their rigidity also subjects them to damage. Great on the portage unless you are trying to carry a pack and canoe at the same time- most backpacking packs (both internal and external frame) ride too high to be carried with the canoe.

If you're talking external frame packs, then they are difficult to fit well into a canoe. I used them once, and won't again (had to take the bag off the frame to fit, so I was left with an unsupported bag and a useless frame when carrying gear to camp). If you're talking internal frame packs, then they are adequate if lined with plastic bags. The difficulty with internal frame packs is that the bulky suspension may cause problems in fitting in a canoe. Canoe packs generally have a simpler/more compact suspension and are more "square shaped", so as to lie flat in a canoe. Both internal frame and canoe packs will work fine. Canoe packs have advantages while in the canoe, internal frame packs have an advantage while on the trail. Canoe packs are designed to sit low on the back to allow you to portage the canoe along with the pack. If you're not doing that, then the issue is moot. Most larger internal frame packs extend high over the shoulders which interferes with the carrying yoke of the canoe.

LJaskow: "My brother and I are going to Malberg lake with some very experienced friends. We were hoping to use our frame packs but the group leader is insisting that we use Canoe packs. Is it really that much different? Frame packs are so light weight and easy to carry. This is my first trip to the BWCA so any help is appreciated."

I agree that canoe packs are desirable for the reasons already posted, but I do not agree with someone insisting what you should do. Life is a learning experience, and while advice from others with experience can be incredibly valuable, I would be very reluctant to travel with anyone who insisted that I do anything.

I'm the guy who never liked "canoe packs". Shapeless oversized bag with poor shoulder straps. Convenient they may be, but I can drop my internal frame Nimbus Access in any space a canoe pack fits and my Nimbus Core is worn carrying my canoe.

First trips to Quetico used external frame packs without and problem, Peak One and Camp Trails. Switched to internal afterward.

Solo canoes even external frame work fine. Tandems need adjusting to position an external frame with other packs. Any pack benefits from a liner. The better harness is little to no fuss for me.

A better question would be specific to your backpack brand/type.

Example I use a GG Nimbus Access, and a Nimbus Core


Camptrails Torrid 2, the packbags I use inside and a REI Ptarmigan Traverse,



butthead

“Frame pack” can mean lots of different things. If it’s an old school external aluminum frame pack I would steer away from using it. If it’s a modern internal frame pack it may be just fine. The GG Nimbus (per butthead) is a great example. It seems the main questions for your frame pack are (1) will if fit well into the canoe and (2) will the experienced leaders tolerate its presence.

I mostly use a GG Blaze AC 60 (trending to UL). Sometimes I use a GG Quetico - a canoe pack. When I take people on canoe trips I load the van with a ton of extra gear, including packs ( various GG, CCS, and canvas Duluth packs). Usually they have and bring their own pack. The night before we head into the wilderness I have them pack their pack and try it on. Then I have them try a canoe pack (that I packed with their gear and whatever common gear they need to carry). In the end they usually go with the canoe pack I provided. Holds more gear, easier to pack, and they like the comfort and feel.

LJaskow: "My brother and I are going to Malberg lake with some very experienced friends. We were hoping to use our frame packs but the group leader is insisting that we use Canoe packs. Is it really that much different? Frame packs are so light weight and easy to carry. This is my first trip to the BWCA so any help is appreciated."

If it is possible maybe do a test run. Bring your packs to the trip leaders house and try placement in the canoe. Also try to carry your pack and canoe as you would when portaging.

The phrases "frame pack" and "canoe pack" can have a lot of different meanings.

If by frame pack you mean the kind of pack you would take when on a backpacking trip, then it's possible to take such a pack on a canoe trip but not advised. The dimensions of frame packs (internal or external) are not always suited to the dimensions of the space available in a canoe. Furthermore, a frame pack may be more difficult to waterproof compared to canoe packs. By canoe pack I mean either the traditional style Duluth pack or one of the almost backpacking-type packs from manufacturers like Granite Gear.

A lot of traditional backpacking packs, frame packs, internal frame packs, or whatever term you want to use also have a lot of pockets and dividers to sort and separate gear. While this is nice in theory and practice when you are carrying gear for yourself, it's not as conducive to canoe camping where much of the gear is shared by the group - cooking gear, tarps, water filtration, campfire gear, etc.

With a canoe pack, you can place a large waterproof liner inside, place all of your gear inside, roll the top over, cinch the top of the pack down, and you pretty much have a water proof pack that not only will keep your gear dry but it will float if you capsize.

A frame pack is great on the trail when you are "living" out of it while on the trail, but when I'm in the BWCA, I generally empty my pack each day so everything can be organized, be visually located, and have a chance to breathe and air out.

Packing it all up in one compartment in the morning is much faster than trying to remember which pocket to put everything in. Just my opinion.

airmorse: "

LJaskow: "My brother and I are going to Malberg lake with some very experienced friends. We were hoping to use our frame packs but the group leader is insisting that we use Canoe packs. Is it really that much different? Frame packs are so light weight and easy to carry. This is my first trip to the BWCA so any help is appreciated."

If it is possible maybe do a test run. Bring your packs to the trip leaders house and try placement in the canoe. Also try to carry your pack and canoe as you would when portaging.
"

+1 for Airmorse's suggestion to do a test run. I've used both backpacking packs as well as canoe packs and find myself switching it up - advantages and disadvantages to each. On our longest trip this season, 12-days, my dad and I took both. The key was making sure of the fit before we left rather than at the first canoe landing.

Good luck with the discussion and decision with your group lead...you should have a great time either way!

LJaskow: "My brother and I are going to Malberg lake with some very experienced friends. We were hoping to use our frame packs but the group leader is insisting that we use Canoe packs. Is it really that much different? Frame packs are so light weight and easy to carry. This is my first trip to the BWCA so any help is appreciated."

While I agree with much of what has been said, here's another perspective. You have never been to the BW and have the opportunity to go with a very experienced group on their trip. They have their way of doing their trip and the leader is insisting you do it the way that will work for them. I assume insisting means it's not a suggestion. So the question is "are you going to do it, or just go on your own trip and do it your way"? If it's not really much different, why don't you just use the canoe packs? Your rationale is they are lightweight and easy to carry. You still will have to carry your share. You'll never carry it very long. The longest portage on your route is 189 rods (160 rods is 1/2 mile), a couple are a quarter mile, and most are 1/8 mile or less.

Like Frenchy19 you seem reluctant to do what he insists you do on his trip. You have a choice to not go. On the other hand it's a 2-way street, the leader has a choice to not bring you on his trip. As a leader, he might think "if he can't do a simple thing like that before we even get out there, what's it going to be like then?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. He's not asking you to do something dangerous or illegal. If I were you, I'd say "OK, anything else I need to know"?

LJaskow: "....This is my first trip to the BWCA...."

Use what you have or borrow what you need. You may not like BWCA tripping. Why bother having the exact equipment? Make the packs you have work for you.

bobbernumber3: "

LJaskow: "....This is my first trip to the BWCA...."

Use what you have or borrow what you need. You may not like BWCA tripping. Why bother having the exact equipment? Make the packs you have work for you.
"

My advice falls into this camp. Most folks who have been on a lot of trips, but certainly not all, seem to prefer the canoe packs for a lot of the reasons mentioned. That said, just about anything that has straps and can physically hold your share of the gear will get you through your first trip. If you enjoy the BWCA and want to go back, you can pick up new canoeing gear as you go.

bobbernumber3: "

LJaskow: "....This is my first trip to the BWCA...."

Use what you have or borrow what you need. You may not like BWCA tripping. Why bother having the exact equipment? Make the packs you have work for you.
"

^this

It seems people generally load backpacks to be self-sufficient. You can probably fit the bulk of what two hikers might put in their bags in a single portage pack. Efficiently in unloading canoes, carrying gear across portages and then loading on the other side is a big deal when canoe tripping.

That said, you can certainly get away with a lot less than "perfection" and have a great trip. I did my first BWCA trips with the hiking backpack I already had. They were great experiences and I've kept going back every year since (but I also use portage packs now and strongly recommend others in my group do too).

As others have said, it might be worth talking with your group leader about how they're planning the packing/portaging logistics and see if you can find some compromise.

Thank you for all the great advice!

We started with external frame packs years ago because that is what we had. They didn’t fit in the canoe too well. We switched to internal frame so we could also use them for hiking, and we liked the pockets for organizing things. As we now double portage, there is not an issue with the higher pack getting in the way of the carrying the canoe.

The problems I see with canoe packs ( tho I haven’t used any) is that everything is just jumbled in the bag, and you could really stuff a lot in them thus making them pretty heavy.

If you decide to go with canoe packs, I would suggest borrowing or renting them until you see if you like the bw and how they work for you.

4keys: "The problems I see with canoe packs ( tho I haven’t used any) is that everything is just jumbled in the bag, and you could really stuff a lot in them thus making them pretty heavy."

This is really not a problem if you use stuff sacks. For example, I have a couple CCS Pioneer Packs and I use CCS stuff sacks to sort smaller gear into categories, if you will. The red one is the kitchen sack (cook kit, stove, fuel, utensils, camp towel, paper towels, fire kit, etc.), green is personal clothing (and other small items like meds, headlamp, Kindle, toothbrush and paste, etc.), blue is fishing gear, ursacks for food, etc.

Other items like tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, etc, are all big enough to be easily found. So, there is nothing really jumbled into the portage pack, and I do not fill the pack to simply fill the pack. There are times when one of my packs (almost always solo these days, and I always bring two packs) is not all that full, and that is okay.

Frenchy19: "

4keys: "The problems I see with canoe packs ( tho I haven’t used any) is that everything is just jumbled in the bag, and you could really stuff a lot in them thus making them pretty heavy.
"

This is really not a problem if you use stuff sacks. For example, I have a couple CCS Pioneer Packs and I use CCS stuff sacks to sort smaller gear into categories, if you will. The red one is the kitchen sack (cook kit, stove, fuel, utensils, camp towel, paper towels, fire kit, etc.), green is personal clothing (and other small items like meds, headlamp, Kindle, toothbrush and paste, etc.), blue is fishing gear, ursacks for food, etc.


Other items like tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, etc, are all big enough to be easily found. So, there is nothing really jumbled into the portage pack, and I do not fill the pack to simply fill the pack. There are times when one of my packs (almost always solo these days, and I always bring two packs) is not all that full, and that is okay.
"

+1,
and...
1. there are different size canoe packs...and with different harness systems.
2. if you know how to pack the canoe pack properly it's not a problem.

I agree with use what you have and are comfortable with. As long as you can portage the boat using your frame pack I say go ahead and stay with it. I used an external frame pack on my first couple trips cuz that is what I had and it wasn’t any problem if I recall. Of course testing it out beforehand is a good idea if you can.

You have received a lot of good advice.

My take:
When I travel with a group, I use canoe packs because we are carrying more group gear and the packs also tend to be packed heavier. I find backpacks tend to ride awkwardly and all the straps and pockets catch on the canoe gunwales when pulling them in and out.

When I travel solo, I travel like an UL backpacker. I use a lightweight internal frame pack that doesn't stick up high above my shoulders. This allows it to lie flat in the canoe and it doesn't interfere with also carrying the canoe. Because it only weighs 26-30 lbs., it is easy to grab out of the canoe one handed vs. our group packs that weigh 50-75 lbs.

Ultimately, a test run is warranted.

Here is a crossover I used this Summer It has an internal frame (two1/8" x1" aluminum stays) The roll top can go lower with less load. One large bag for easy waterproofing. Weighs 2 3/4 lbs.

Pack

I used it for 12 days BackPacking in the Arrigetch Peaks of the Brooks range of Alaska. Then used it on a 14 day Paddle on the Kobuk River in Alaska

DanCooke: "Here is a crossover I used this Summer It has an internal frame (two1/8" x1" aluminum stays) The roll top can go lower with less load. One large bag for easy waterproofing. Weighs 2 3/4 lbs.


Pack


I used it for 12 days BackPacking in the Arrigetch Peaks of the Brooks range of Alaska. Then used it on a 14 day Paddle on the Kobuk River in Alaska"

Good lookin' crossover pack! Both of your trips sound amazing! Pics or trip reports posted anywhere?

YetiJedi: "Good lookin' crossover pack! Both of your trips sound amazing! Pics or trip reports posted anywhere?"

Trip reports posted on Facebook on under Dan Cooke or Cooke Custom Sewing. Another BWCA.com poster (worth01) did a portion of the Kobuk river, and the great Kobuk Sand Dunes this summer as well.

Thanks for all the good advice and tips!

If the group leader says to use a canoe pack, just use a canoe pack. No one wants unnecessary drama in the woods.

If you don't want to spend a bunch of money, just rent one (and you should probably be able to fit stuff for two people into one pack.) It'll probably cost $25 for the week.

https://bloomington.rentals.rei.com/portal/category/Paddling%20Gear/811