I've done 17 or 18 trips to BWCA/Quetico/WCPP/Wabakimi, but always in a solo Kruger Sea Wind and almost always with somebody else, also in a Kruger. These decked 17' rudder-equipped solo canoes can take anything the weather throws at you.

I'm going to buy a kevlar tandem canoe. I want one that performs better than most "beginner" tandems. Better in the wind, waves, drier, and faster. I'm thinking something with a rounded bottom/shallow arch instead of a typical flat and wide bottomed canoe. And hell, I might even put a rudder on it.

Suggest a model to look at?

Joe

A Northstar Northwind 17 or Wenonah Minnesota II would be good places to start looking. The Northwind is a versatile shallow arch with some rocker and the MNII has a flatter bottom with no rocker (not very maneuverable but goes straight quickly).

Your performance priorities will lead you in either direction. If you're a smaller person or carry less gear, both companies make smaller boats with similar designs that may make a better fit for your style of tripping.

I think the Northstar Northwind series and the Swift Keewaydin series would be a good place to start. Each has 3 sizes. They are well designed boats both for ease of paddle and seaworthiness. Don't get a longer boat than you need for your largest intended load. Increased surface friction about cancels out any increase in speed you get from longer hull. Unless you are 60/minute - pushing a boat to its hull speed, extra length doesn't matter.

I don't know if you have done much tandem paddling. If you have not be aware that some of the motion of the boat is not being caused by you. When in a solo there is a real connection between your action and boat motion. It is surprising to some when the boat does something that you didn't initiate. People who start out kayaking experience this for sure. This is more noticeable in a rounded bottomed hull. That said, swallow-arch hulls are way nicer in rough conditions.

It is no big deal and time in the boat with your partner will get you used to unexpected motion.

I highly recommend and bow slider in any tandem. Being able to adjust trim makes a big difference in the wind.

I 2nd the MNII vote if you're looking for speed, not much can beat it in a straight line and lot of them around. If your bow paddler is tall/long legged they don't have loads of bow leg space.

The Northstar Northwind 17 is a "pretty good at everything" boat.

It sounds like you want to avoid the SRQ17, Wenonah Boundary Waters, etc which are the stable as a barge but slow models.

joewildlife: " Better in the wind, waves, drier, and faster."

I am not an expert on hull designs, but I thought that generally the last one - speed - was at odds with the first items on your wish list. Perhaps I am wrong, so I am curious & following…hoping more knowledgeable folks chine in.

Taking a wild guess here, but are you gearing up to try the Kruger/ Waddell? I have a Minnesota II, and yes, it's efficient, but when it gets really rough, I wish it had a bit more rocker.

One tip, if you're looking to buy a new Wenonah, check out the blems deeply discounted at Hayward, Wisconsin.

"Waves and drier" have more to do with shape of the hull above the waterline, "faster" with the shape below the waterline. You can certainly have a fast hull that does well in rough water. "Wind" has to do with both. The profile of the hull above the waterline for just getting blown about and the shape below for weathercocking or wanting orient a certain way to the wind direction. Weathercocking can be mitigated by adjusting trim in most cases.

Test the MN II bow legroom before you buy one. I had the opportunity to sit in one before purchasing and decided against the MN II because of the narrow bow space. You or your paddling partner will be in that space for hours every day.

Kendis: "Test the MN II bow legroom before you buy one. I had the opportunity to sit in one before purchasing and decided against the MN II because of the narrow bow space. You or your paddling partner will be in that space for hours every day."

+1 on this approach. We rented a MN II several years ago for a Quetico trip and the bow paddler felt cramped; we both were banging knees on the gunnels. The following year we rented a Northwind 17 and have now owned a Northwind 17 for several years.

TZ

Voyager: "One tip, if you're looking to buy a new Wenonah, check out the blems deeply discounted at Hayward, Wisconsin."

In Hayward, WI? Where?

cyclones30: "I 2nd the MNII vote if you're looking for speed, not much can beat it in a straight line and lot of them around. If your bow paddler is tall/long legged they don't have loads of bow leg space.


The Northstar Northwind 17 is a "pretty good at everything" boat.


It sounds like you want to avoid the SRQ17, Wenonah Boundary Waters, etc which are the stable as a barge but slow models. "

Thanks for the info. Knowing the ones to avoid is also important!

The MN2 was the first boat that came to mind, I am familiar with it in that it gets the nod as a fast tandem in the MR340 race. But no, I'm not racing in the BWCA. I'm just used to higher performance solo hulls and don't want a barge in a tandem.

A friend recommended a Souris River Wilderness 18. I do like the epoxy construction and the prices are good.

Joe

Hayward Outfitter's in Hayward Wisconsin, I believe they are the only dealer in the U.S. for Wenonah blems. Joe, I knew a little of your MR 340 history, and EC history too, ( I think) and took a guess. Great bunch of folks in the Mn. event. We have our own hospitality room at the casino hotel to party in, if you get done paddling early.

I suggest that you look at a Northwind 18. Faster than all the others you're considering except the MNII and extremely comfortable/capable in wind and waves. In my experience the 18 is considerably more fun to paddle than the 17 which I'd consider more of a family boat. NW18 is a special hull.

joewildlife: "
A friend recommended a Souris River Wilderness 18. I do like the epoxy construction and the prices are good.


Joe
"

SR 18 probably wouldn't supply the performance jam you're accustomed to. In my opinion the "epoxy construction" is a best hype, no advantage as far as I can tell. The cross-rib layup makes for a less rigid hull stem to stern which reduces flat water performance and prone to oil canning and possibly de-lamination. I've come to believe (as someone that has been called on to fix a number of damaged hulls) that epoxy is more subject to solar degradation, either that or something in the Souris River buyer demographic leads to folks storing their boats in the sun. The number of SR hulls with UV degradation that I've dealt with is somewhat damning.

The Wenonah Escape is also a hull to consider if you trip a bit lighter. Sweet to paddle. I second the notion of the Northwind 18 if you want to take long trips that include big water. If you really want speed and lightness consider some of the fast tandems from Savage River (Blackhawk, Susquehanna, Muskoka).

A vintage Sawyer 222 is probably as fast as a MNII and amazing in heavy seas- I've never paddled a more capable hull. Hard to find though, especially in a light lay up.

The only time I've heard "big water/waves" and "fast" referencing the same tandem is when reading comments about the Canadienne hull. I've never paddled one so can't speak first hand. There are kevlar versions out there but they all seem to be heavier than the newer more modern layups.

Another large volume tripper that might fit the bill would be the Champlain.

Banksiana: "

joewildlife: "
A friend recommended a Souris River Wilderness 18. I do like the epoxy construction and the prices are good.



Joe
"

A vintage Sawyer 222 is probably as fast as a MNII and amazing in heavy seas- I've never paddled a more capable hull. Hard to find though, especially in a light lay up."

There's a beautiful Sawyer 222 in expedition kevlar (63.5#) currently for sale on fb marketplace.

Kendis: "Test the MN II bow legroom before you buy one. I had the opportunity to sit in one before purchasing and decided against the MN II because of the narrow bow space. You or your paddling partner will be in that space for hours every day."

Spot on; ungodly uncomfortable in the bow.

I also agree with the take on getting a sliding bow seat.

Swift Keewaydin 16' or 17' depending on gear.

Champlain is high volume but definitely what I'd call fast

cyclones30: "Champlain is high volume but definitely what I'd call fast "

+1

dschult2: "Swift Keewaydin 16' or 17' depending on gear."

Beautiful canoes. Issue in the Midwest is where to find one; I believe the OP is in MO, and I am fairly certain that the closet dealer is Rutabaga near Madison, Wisconsin.

If money is not an issue, check out the Savage River fleet. Simply stunning!

Savage River

Frenchy19: "If money is not an issue, check out the Savage River fleet. Simply stunning!


Savage River "

I was all set on Savage River then lucked into a Northwind 17 stealth…so I can attest from my research very fine canoes.

I don’t know about this company but looks more affordable and some promising options. GRBNewman Designs

I have a couple of Spirit IIs in kevlar. Not as fast in the MNII, but more comfortable, maneuverable, and seaworthy.

Don't have a lot of time in one, but the Northstar Polaris might fit the bill.