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12/02/2022 12:55PM  
Did I read this correctly? 21.47/night all EPs?
 
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12/02/2022 01:24PM  
You read it correctly for entry from the south. See Fee List for details.

TZ
12/02/2022 01:29PM  
Oh, heck, read the northern entry as $8.48--you're correct, $21.47 for ALL EPs...

TZ
12/02/2022 07:42PM  
That’s up from $14.97 CDN this year. That will prevent overcrowding.
Jackfish
Moderator
  
12/02/2022 07:52PM  
Keep in mind that those numbers are Canadian dollars. With the exchange rate, it's about $16-17 USD per night per person, a small increase over previous years' fees.

And now no differential in pricing between northern and southern entry points.

Tripping in the serenity and beauty of Quetico is worth every penny paid.
24kGold
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12/02/2022 07:55PM  
$15.91 per night as of right now in US dollars. So, not quite as bad as it seems.
12/02/2022 08:08PM  
Jackfish: "Keep in mind that those numbers are Canadian dollars. With the exchange rate, it's about $16-17 USD per night per person, a small increase over previous years' fees.

And now no differential in pricing between northern and southern entry points.

Tripping in the serenity and beauty of Quetico is worth every penny paid."

Yes, worth every penny. However, it is a substantial increase for those that have entered from the north:

(21.47 - 14.97) / 14.97 x 100% = 43.4% increase

For those entering from the south, I believe it was the same last year.
Gaidin53
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12/02/2022 09:11PM  
Bummer they upped the Northern entry price but frankly I don’t care! It’s worth it in my opinion! I’m tripping in Wabakimi and can’t do a Quetico trip this summer but I’d assume my Wabakimi per night fee also went up as well since I think those were set up the same as a Northern entry.

I don’t think they should raise it much or any more than that but I don’t mind supporting the parks! Quetico was amazing last year and I pretty much will only trip in the BWCA in shoulder seasons now. Summer trips will be all on the Canadian side. Maybe a San Juan River Utah trip in June in the next few years.

Ryan
uqme22
Guest Paddler
  
12/03/2022 02:23PM  
It still hummers me that one night in Q costs as much as whatever a similar number of nights in the BW costs. Is there an hourly rate I've not heard about?
12/03/2022 04:14PM  
uqme22: "It still hummers me that one night in Q costs as much as whatever a similar number of nights in the BW costs. Is there an hourly rate I've not heard about?"

I think Quetico even with fees as is on a skeleton budget. If they go too far in a deficit-would we have a Quetico? Were very luck as U.S. citizens we are allowed in as welcome guests.
Banksiana
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12/04/2022 12:33PM  
uqme22: "It still hummers me that one night in Q costs as much as whatever a similar number of nights in the BW costs. Is there an hourly rate I've not heard about?"

Person/nights/year BWCAW- +/- 250,000
Person/night/year Quetico- +/- 11,000

Worth every dollar.
12/04/2022 02:15PM  
Banksiana: "
Person/nights/year BWCAW- +/- 250,000
Person/night/year Quetico- +/- 11,000

Worth every dollar."

Oh, heck yes!!! On one of our Quetico trips we saw only two people in an eight-day span (within a 10-day trip).

TZ
12/04/2022 02:55PM  
TrailZen: "
Banksiana: "

Person/nights/year BWCAW- +/- 250,000
Person/night/year Quetico- +/- 11,000

Worth every dollar."

Oh, heck yes!!! On one of our Quetico trips we saw only two people in an eight-day span (within a 10-day trip).

TZ"

Still very cheap, free firewood, campsite, bathwater all over and scenery and fish galore. Living like a queen or king.
12/04/2022 11:39PM  
PINETREE … “ You said it all “ !
Argo
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12/05/2022 09:16AM  
Now you get a taste of what it's like trying to shop online as a Canadian when the vendor's domicile isn't labeled or isn't immediately recognizable. You never know if prices are $Cdn or $US.

Count your blessings if you don't have to deal with this issue on a continual basis.
12/05/2022 09:34AM  
Argo: "Now you get a taste of what it's like trying to shop online as a Canadian when the vendor's domicile isn't labeled or isn't immediately recognizable. You never know if prices are $Cdn or $US.

Count your blessings if you don't have to deal with this issue on a continual basis."

I can see where that would be a problem. However in this case, I think it is clear that the prices on the Ontario Parks website would be in CDN dollars. So, $21.47 CDN for northern entry in the 2023 season.

The problem Americans will have is figuring out what exchange rate they will be charged on the day and by the vendor they use to pay. Also, some banks or credit card companies charge foreign transaction fees.

It sure is nice once all the hassles are over to be able to escape to the wilderness.
Argo
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12/05/2022 09:56AM  
LarryS48: "
Argo: "Now you get a taste of what it's like trying to shop online as a Canadian when the vendor's domicile isn't labeled or isn't immediately recognizable. You never know if prices are $Cdn or $US.

Count your blessings if you don't have to deal with this issue on a continual basis."

I can see where that would be a problem. However in this case, I think it is clear that the prices on the Ontario Parks website would be in CDN dollars. So, $21.47 CDN for northern entry in the 2023 season.

The problem Americans will have is figuring out what exchange rate they will be charged on the day and by the vendor they use to pay. Also, some banks or credit card companies charge foreign transaction fees.

It sure is nice once all the hassles are over to be able to escape to the wilderness. "

While it may seem so, it sure confused some people here. And I think they come by that confusion honestly. Some outfits in Northern Ontario price their products in $US for the very reason that, like Quetico, 90% of their customers are American.

Bottom line is that the issues you describe are par for the course for every foreign transaction. If I buy shares of JP Morgan I have to factor in not only the intrinsic returns of the shares plus dividends, but also the currency exchange differentials between my purchase and sale dates. So the consumer always needs to factor in these costs. My issue is that these costs are not well disclosed because of the absence of a simple currency indicator.
12/05/2022 12:24PM  
uqme22: "It still hummers me that one night in Q costs as much as whatever a similar number of nights in the BW costs. Is there an hourly rate I've not heard about?"

Simple solution for you:-stay in the BW and enjoy the masses.
uqme2
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12/05/2022 01:06PM  
In 2022, a one-year conservation fishing license was north of $50 CDN + the Outdoors card bonus.

Do your own math on that.
Jackfish
Moderator
  
12/05/2022 02:04PM  
Something else to consider: 100% of all camping fees collected stay with Quetico Park to pay for salaries, buildings, trail maintenance and the like. No sharing pieces of the financial pie with any other governmental agencies.
thegildedgopher
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12/05/2022 02:12PM  
uqme2: "In 2022, a one-year conservation fishing license was north of $50 CDN + the Outdoors card bonus.

Do your own math on that. "

Outdoors card cost $2.85/year, so about $55 canadian = $40 USD for a US citizen to buy a one-year conservation license in Ontario. I don't bat an eye at that. I think it's nice they offer the reduced-cost conservation license to non-residents -- Minnesota and Wisconsin don't offer this.

As a MN resident it costs me $63 USD for a 1-year Ontario sport fishing license, that includes 1/3 of the 3-year outdoors card. That's only $13 more than it costs me to buy a 1-year non-resident license in Wisconsin. That doesn't seem like a lot when I compare the experiences I've had in Ontario -vs- Wisconsin over the years.
uqme2
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12/05/2022 02:27PM  
Do your own math on that.
12/05/2022 02:44PM  
Jackfish: "Something else to consider: 100% of all camping fees collected stay with Quetico Park to pay for salaries, buildings, trail maintenance and the like. No sharing pieces of the financial pie with any other governmental agencies. "


Good info
uqme2
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12/05/2022 03:19PM  
Bingo!
Gaidin53
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12/05/2022 05:25PM  
It can vary from outfitter to outfitter whether they are quoting US or Canadian. It’s important to ask up front since some of them will charge in US dollars so they get more.

Ryan
tumblehome
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12/05/2022 06:48PM  
The reason the bwca is so cheap is because your trip is subsidized by the people of the United States. If camping fees reflected the actual cost of maintaining the bwca and paying taxes to the counties, nobody would go.
Tom
12/06/2022 11:45AM  
I agree with all of the positive comments about the Q...the cost does make it tough to bring your whole family though. The daily price is discounted for kids but as a family of 4...myself, wife and 2 kids. It is expensive.

If I was just going myself or in a group of friends the price is reasonable for the experience...I still make it work for my family, but I wonder how many people don't? Is that going to affect the future of the relevancy and survival of the Park?

Someone made the comment on finances and how the Park has to be self sufficient. That makes me less confident in the future of Quetico. The Park was actually profitable/sustainable when they had higher volumes and lower fees. Sometime in or through the early 2000's the price increased by 300-400% depending on the exchange rate each year. This reduced volumes considerably (good for us that stuck it out) but there is a tipping point and the park began to lose money. They raised the fees because they thought they could... not because they needed to or thought the volumes would decrease... The resultant reduction in park volumes was essentially a mistake as was the lost revenue. There is a tipping balance on increasing fees, experience, and viability...the history makes me worried...

T
uqme2
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12/06/2022 11:55AM  
Pinetree: "
Jackfish: "Something else to consider: 100% of all camping fees collected stay with Quetico Park to pay for salaries, buildings, trail maintenance and the like. No sharing pieces of the financial pie with any other governmental agencies. "


Good info"


See, there's the rub. I don't think that's correct unless something has changed.

Just for the sake of discussion.

My understanding is Q fees do not stay in Q but are shared within the Ontario parks system. Q happens to be one of the few profitable parks that is able to help support numerous lesser knowns.

It's kinda like how our two nations differ in healthcare. Canada charges more for recreational opportunities and the US charges more for healthcare opportunities.

It's all about resources, sustainability, priorities and most of all, an understanding of perspective vs how things actually work in real life.
Jackfish
Moderator
  
12/06/2022 12:20PM  
uqme2,
I was a speaker at Canoecopia last March and did a presentation on Quetico Park and what was involved in taking a first-time trip to Q. Some of the discussion centered around the fact that the camping fees between the BW and Q are significantly different.

As part of my research, I had multiple discussions with Trevor Gibb, park superintendent of Q and he shared the information with me that all fees stay within the park. I have no reason to doubt him.

Perhaps that's a change from years past, but it's certainly the way it is now.
12/06/2022 12:36PM  
Either way, it stays in the overall park system and doesn't go to general revenue.

I think I also saw something where it stays within that park. Nothing else it shows that park is profitable. We better keep it as it is at present.
12/06/2022 01:46PM  
I cannot wait to get back into Q in June and hopefully July. I don't care how much it costs because it smooths the wrinkles from my soul.
Minnesotian
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12/06/2022 02:19PM  
tumblehome: "The reason the bwca is so cheap is because your trip is subsidized by the people of the United States. If camping fees reflected the actual cost of maintaining the bwca and paying taxes to the counties, nobody would go.
Tom"


Exactly.

The population of the U.S. is 331 million, compared to only 38 million for Canada. More people in the United States spreading out the upkeep of the outdoors and keeping those entrance fees subsidized lower.
Argo
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12/06/2022 02:41PM  
uqme2: "
Pinetree: "
Jackfish: "Something else to consider: 100% of all camping fees collected stay with Quetico Park to pay for salaries, buildings, trail maintenance and the like. No sharing pieces of the financial pie with any other governmental agencies. "



Good info"


See, there's the rub. I don't think that's correct unless something has changed.


Just for the sake of discussion.


My understanding is Q fees do not stay in Q but are shared within the Ontario parks system. Q happens to be one of the few profitable parks that is able to help support numerous lesser knowns.


It's kinda like how our two nations differ in healthcare. Canada charges more for recreational opportunities and the US charges more for healthcare opportunities.


It's all about resources, sustainability, priorities and most of all, an understanding of perspective vs how things actually work in real life."


I believe the reason the fees "stay" in the park is because Quetico runs at a moderate loss in a normal year. The slack is picked up by the heavyweights in the park system like Algonquin, Killarney and several of the large car-camping parks. I believe the revenues are folded into an overall park purse and not handled independently as is been implied in this discussion.

In 2015/16 The parks recovered about 89% of their costs. That was the quickest number I could find and it seams about right to my vague recollection of discussions past. I assume this condition continues to varying degrees.
uqme22
Guest Paddler
  
12/06/2022 02:56PM  
Perhaps Adam could provide us with an official ruling.

Jackfish: "uqme2,
I was a speaker at Canoecopia last March and did a presentation on Quetico Park and what was involved in taking a first-time trip to Q. Some of the discussion centered around the fact that the camping fees between the BW and Q are significantly different.

As part of my research, I had multiple discussions with Trevor Gibb, park superintendent of Q and he shared the information with me that all fees stay within the park. I have no reason to doubt him.

Perhaps that's a change from years past, but it's certainly the way it is now."


Far enough. Ask him and let us know.
Jackfish
Moderator
  
12/06/2022 03:10PM  
You ask him. I have way more on my plate to get done at work than to re-gather information that I already shared with you. Just go to Quetico and pay the fees that they require... or don't. Simple as that.
uqme2
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12/06/2022 03:41PM  
With all due respect... I was asking about your interactions with Trevor.
12/06/2022 04:27PM  
Minnesotian: "
tumblehome: "The reason the bwca is so cheap is because your trip is subsidized by the people of the United States. If camping fees reflected the actual cost of maintaining the bwca and paying taxes to the counties, nobody would go.
Tom"



Exactly.


The population of the U.S. is 331 million, compared to only 38 million for Canada. More people in the United States spreading out the upkeep of the outdoors and keeping those entrance fees subsidized lower. "


Parks usually upkeep themselves; they have since the beginning of time. The upkeep is from human use and abuse.
12/06/2022 04:48PM  
Jackfish, in the past the Park revenue was shared amongst all of the provincial parks, not just one park. Quetico used to help fund other parks (before Trevor Gibb)...it could have changed, Trevor could have misunderstood your question, or you could have misunderstood the answer... I still don't know current practice...see my previous post though...Quetico used to turn a profit until they raised their prices... Raising prices doesn't guarantee more revenue. It's a balancing act.

As I said in my previous post, I enjoy the solitude...I pay the price for my family of 4, but I do fear for the future of the park.

T
Castaway
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12/06/2022 05:39PM  
I found it odd that the northern entry fees would be increased to match the southern entries since that would eliminate the incentive for non-residents to use the northern entries that benefit the Canadian outfitters. So I emailed Ontario Parks and Trevor Gibb replied that this is a web page listing error. In fact, the northern entries fees will remain the same as 2022. I've copied his email reply below.


"Thank you for the email.

You appear to have caught an error on the backcountry fee page on the website. The Non-resident backcountry camping fees for Quetico (except South Access Points), Woodland Caribou, Wabakimi have not changed for 2023.

Thank you for bring this to our attention.

Trev

Trevor Gibb | Park Superintendent – Quetico Provincial Park
108 Saturn Ave, Atikokan, Ontario, P0T 1C0
P: 807-597-5018 C: 807-597-8263 W: OntarioParks.com"
MichiganMan
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12/06/2022 09:08PM  
unshavenman: "I cannot wait to get back into Q in June and hopefully July. I don't care how much it costs because it smooths the wrinkles from my soul. "


Amen to this.
campnfish
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12/06/2022 09:25PM  
Castaway: "I found it odd that the northern entry fees would be increased to match the southern entries since that would eliminate the incentive for non-residents to use the northern entries that benefit the Canadian outfitters. So I emailed Ontario Parks and Trevor Gibb replied that this is a web page listing error. In fact, the northern entries fees will remain the same as 2022. I've copied his email reply below.

"Thank you for the email.

You appear to have caught an error on the backcountry fee page on the website. The Non-resident backcountry camping fees for Quetico (except South Access Points), Woodland Caribou, Wabakimi have not changed for 2023.

Thank you for bring this to our attention.

Trev

Trevor Gibb | Park Superintendent – Quetico Provincial Park
108 Saturn Ave, Atikokan, Ontario, P0T 1C0
P: 807-597-5018 C: 807-597-8263 W: OntarioParks.com""

I would pay more for northern entry if some of the money went to road repair in Atikokan, the pot holes are everywhere.
12/06/2022 09:59PM  
Castaway: "I found it odd that the northern entry fees would be increased to match the southern entries since that would eliminate the incentive for non-residents to use the northern entries that benefit the Canadian outfitters. So I emailed Ontario Parks and Trevor Gibb replied that this is a web page listing error. In fact, the northern entries fees will remain the same as 2022. I've copied his email reply below.



"Thank you for the email.


You appear to have caught an error on the backcountry fee page on the website. The Non-resident backcountry camping fees for Quetico (except South Access Points), Woodland Caribou, Wabakimi have not changed for 2023.


Thank you for bring this to our attention.


Trev


Trevor Gibb | Park Superintendent – Quetico Provincial Park
108 Saturn Ave, Atikokan, Ontario, P0T 1C0
P: 807-597-5018 C: 807-597-8263 W: OntarioParks.com""


Thanks for simply asking :)

I do respect the Quetico Park Superintendents answer emails.

T
12/06/2022 10:26PM  
campnfish: "
Castaway: "I found it odd that the northern entry fees would be increased to match the southern entries since that would eliminate the incentive for non-residents to use the northern entries that benefit the Canadian outfitters. So I emailed Ontario Parks and Trevor Gibb replied that this is a web page listing error. In fact, the northern entries fees will remain the same as 2022. I've copied his email reply below.

"Thank you for the email.

You appear to have caught an error on the backcountry fee page on the website. The Non-resident backcountry camping fees for Quetico (except South Access Points), Woodland Caribou, Wabakimi have not changed for 2023.

Thank you for bring this to our attention.

Trev

Trevor Gibb | Park Superintendent – Quetico Provincial Park
108 Saturn Ave, Atikokan, Ontario, P0T 1C0
P: 807-597-5018 C: 807-597-8263 W: OntarioParks.com""

I would pay more for northern entry if some of the money went to road repair in Atikokan, the pot holes are everywhere."


Yes and that would take money away from the park.
Gaidin53
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12/06/2022 11:50PM  
The information and help I got from the Quetico Park employees has been awesome! They really went a couple of extra miles last year answering my questions and helping me route plan!

I am happy the prices stayed down though but do like to see the Canadian Parks do well!

Ryan
Argo
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12/07/2022 07:27AM  
timatkn: "As I said in my previous post, I enjoy the solitude...I pay the price for my family of 4, but I do fear for the future of the park.

T"


Based on what? There is zero chance of Quetico closing.
12/07/2022 08:56AM  
The Ontario Parks website has been updated with the correct information. As Trevor Gibb said, the fees for next year will be the same as this year. Northern entry $14.97 CDN and southern entry $21.47 CDN. $14.97 CDN is also the price listed for Woodland Caribou and Wabakimi. Good to see it on the official website.
thegildedgopher
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12/07/2022 09:51AM  
timatkn: "I do respect the Quetico Park Superintendents answer emails."


Amen to that. Usually when I email SNF I get a reply asking if they can just call me instead of emailing. Ahh, yes, it'd be super convenient to set up a phone call during my work hours...OR, you could just type out a straight forward answer to my straight forward question. At times it seems like they are afraid to put anything in writing lest it be contradicted by someone else in their own organization.
12/07/2022 09:54AM  
Argo: "
timatkn: "As I said in my previous post, I enjoy the solitude...I pay the price for my family of 4, but I do fear for the future of the park.


T"



Based on what? There is zero chance of Quetico closing."


Good to hear…in my experience if places don’t get utilized someone steps in and utilizes them…Political policies and trends change over time…if few people go…who fights for the places to stay how they are? Maybe not in my lifetime…maybe in my children’s. I like your confidence better and will believe you.

T
campnfish
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12/07/2022 10:24AM  
pinetree
campnfish: "I would pay more for northern entry if some of the money went to road repair in Atikokan, the pot holes are everywhere."

Yes and that would take money away from the park."

Tough crowd, that was a joke.
billconner
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12/07/2022 06:46PM  
thegildedgopher: "
timatkn: "I do respect the Quetico Park Superintendents answer emails."

Amen to that. Usually when I email SNF I get a reply asking if they can just call me instead of emailing. Ahh, yes, it'd be super convenient to set up a phone call during my work hours...OR, you could just type out a straight forward answer to my straight forward question. At times it seems like they are afraid to put anything in writing lest it be contradicted by someone else in their own organization."

It's probably because it will get contradicted. I've twice go often answers by email from SNF - previous information officers - that was later contradicted by SNF rangers at Canoecopia.
tumblehome
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12/07/2022 07:08PM  
Regarding the pot holes in Atikokan:

They really are beyond horrible. Next time you go to Atikokan, take a drive through the residential neighborhoods. It’s pretty messed up. It’s like they poured asphalt right over the bare earth. Almost undrivable if that’s a real word. The roads to entry points are smoother.

Anyway, just sayin’ not complaining. I feel for the residents.

Tom
 
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