This will be mine and my husband's first BWCA trip. We are doing a version of the Cherokee Lake Loop with a detour to Frost Lake and just trying to figure out how realistic our planned camping spots are to achieve a 4 day/3 night trip.

Day 1: Putting in at Sawbill, traveling counterclockwise, camping on south side of Burnt Lake
Day 2: Moving up to camp on the northern side of Cherokee Lake (for base camp) (heading to Frost lake in the morning)
Day 3: Traveling up to Frost Lake and then back down to campsite on Cherokee Lake
Day 4: Returning to Sawbill Lake

We really want to detour to Frost lake, but don't know the best way to plan our campsites. We don't want to feel super rushed either. Just not sure how realistic it all is. An alternative, we would camp at Frost Lake on night 3 and travel the whole way back to Sawbill on day 4.

Welcome! Fun to plan trips and hopefully it goes well you return many times. :)

Day 2 and 4 are ambitious, in my opinion. I think day two would take me a dozen hours to complete. If you are planning to go from Burnt to Kelly and then north to Cherokee, probably to see more country, then you are looking at over 8 miles of portaging and a little more than that in paddling. If you are in great shape and up for a day of traveling, maybe. Don't forget time to eat, set up camp, etc.

From the entry point to Burnt, I'd plan a couple of hours at least which isn't bad at all. The day trip to Frost, from Cherokee, also a couple of hours one-way and a couple of hours back...doable, especially day-tripping without gear.

If you are going straight from Cherokee back to Sawbill, probably be half a dozen hours if you maintain a steady pace. Again, doable, especially on an exit day.

A few other things to consider. The weather could change your plans in a hurry. As first-timers, are you experienced canoeists? Are you interested in other activities (fishing, photography, cooking, etc.) or committed to covering lots of ground?

You'll get lots of good comments and advice.

A decent rule of thumb, including portages, is about 2 miles per hour. Yes, you can go faster under good conditions but a head wind can slow you down. So can great stuff to look at and a desire to take a lot of photos. At least that is what happens to us. We are slow and steady and enjoy taking our time. But maybe you are the sort that likes the challenge of pushing hard and going fast. There are people on here that do challenges where they are paddling 40+ miles in a day. I tell my wife about those trips and she can’t imagine wanting to do that. So there are a lot of ways to trip.

One factor I have seen is that newcomers tend to use extra time on portages getting organized and figuring how to do things. That may get better quickly and may most impact the first day.

Another factor is what time you want to make camp. Especially in the busier months, it can be good to get on the water very early (when it tends to be calm and particularly beautiful, and make camp early in the afternoon. That gives you some leeway in finding a site. Then you can relax and do stuff around your site.

As mentioned above, consider what you will do if weather pins you down for a day. Can you just get back a day late or should you build in a rest day to protect against weather delays screwing up your post-trip schedule?

Have fun planning your trip. You will have a great time!

Thanks! We are avid backpacker but this will be our first overnight canoe trip. We definitely want to get some fishing in. We just had no concept on how far we would actually be traveling. I think we'll cut the detour to Frost out and aim to travel more leisurely.

Leisurely is good. Then you can adjust for your second trip. And there will likely be a second one because it is great up there.

a2lackey: "Thanks! We are avid backpacker but this will be our first overnight canoe trip. We definitely want to get some fishing in. We just had no concept on how far we would actually be traveling. I think we'll cut the detour to Frost out and aim to travel more leisurely."

Your backpacking experience will serve you well, A2. If you search this site you will see several conversations (like this one) about the similarities and differences to help you set expectations and plan.

I did a lot of backpacking before I started canoe-tripping in the BWCA and I think the lightweight, minimalist approach is a good starting point. Have fun planning!

Do you have a Sawbill permit? If not you might look at Baker Lake(if permits are available) for a quicker way to get to Cherokee. South Temperance from Baker is not bad at all in one day and it is a gorgeous lake with some nice campsites. Cherokee would not be too far away for day 2 although some challenging portaging. So a shorter day 2 for you to figure out which you like better, leisurely days or challenging days. Would still leave you time for the daytrip to Frost if you are so inclined with a doable trip on the way out from Cherokee to Sawbill. (Assuming decent weather)

If no permits are available for Baker on the days you want to leave then it is kind of a moot point but worth checking. Nice paddle on the way to S. Temperance and relatively easy portaging. Also an area known for moose sightings and good fishing.

Day 1 seems too sort for your overall route. I would travel further that day (to Jack or Weird).
Day 2 feels much too long if you are going all the way to Cherokee via the Temperance Lakes. The portage from Sitka to Cherokee is brutal, especially at the end of the long day you have planned.

Day trip to Frost would be fine.

From Cherokee and out to Sawbill is a reasonable day.

I've done that loop from Baker Lake EP and will just reiterate some of the other comments and add some information from my trip notes and experience. Either EP will give you a loop of the same distance of ~35 miles assuming you double portage, walking each portage 3X. I went from Baker to South Temperance which is ~ 10 miles, isn't too difficult, and took about 5 hours of steady, easy travel. The next day to Cherokee was about 6 miles. As straighthairedcurly mentioned the Sitka-Cherokee portage is tough, the toughest on the whole loop and not a good way to end a long day. From Cherokee to Sawbill to Baker was ~18 miles. I stayed on Sawbill and Burnt because I had 6 nights.

So your planned first day would be ~5 miles and the 2nd ~16 miles with the toughest portage of the trip at the end. So, yeah, that part of the plan needs adjusted. I usually planned to travel about 10 miles a day (8-12) at about 2 mph average (solo), neither rushing nor dilly-dallying. It's best to travel early - 8 to 1, 9 to 2, and find a camp. Later in the day is when weather happens - thunderstorms (lightning) or wind - and when campsites are already occupied. I always got my maps as soon as I could (like now) to figure mileages and become familiar with the route. You can find out a lot about portages on the "maps and entry points" tab, s well as reading trip reports. Navigation is pretty straightforward as long as you keep track of where you are.

As mentioned portages can be a time suck at the landings, loading/unloading and getting organized. Things that improved my efficiency were having very few loose items and knowing what I was going to do. For example: I have a main pack and a small pack I carry with the canoe. A spare paddle is lashed into the canoe, the map case is attached to the small pack, there's a water bottle. I land, put the 2nd load - main pack, water bottle, PFD, main paddle off to the side of the portage, put on the small pack, attach the yoke to the solo canoe, lift and go. at the end put those off to the side, return for second load, repeat. I usually snack on the return trip and drink on the final one. It goes very smoothly and comparatively quickly without rushing. It will be different as a tandem, but you just need to have a plan and be organized.

Just keep asking questions.

To answer the original question about how far, I usually count portages as the main limiting factor. This isn't exact and doesn't apply to every situation, but 8 portages is the most I would like to do in a day. 6 portages is probably more realistic as the most you would want to do in a day, but this does depend on the ground you are covering.

Paddling does factor into the potential distance, but not as much as stopping to portage. Shorter or longer portages affect the potential distance as well, but the main limiting factor is stopping to unload then reload the canoe. 6 portages is a good target number, especially in the area you are traveling.

For your Day 1, South Temperance is a long day from Sawbill. Burnt is a very short day. Your Day 2, from Burnt to Cherokee is a very long day that I would not want to plan on. That would be tougher than Sawbill to South Temperance. Day 3 is a short easy day, and Day 4 is very doable but it would take effort.

Just keep in mind that North Temperance to Cherokee is probably going to be the toughest set of portages on this loop. It isn't bad if you are only going from South Temperance to Cherokee, but if you are coming from Burnt, that is going to feel a lot tougher.

I have 2 options that I might recommend if you do not like the idea of going from Sawbill to South Temperance on Day 1. First would be to take an extra day and make Day 2 be Burnt to South Temperance, then Day 3 South Temperance to Cherokee. South Temperance is one of my favorite lakes and a good distance from Burnt and Cherokee. The second option would be to get a ride from Sawbill to Baker, and start there so it isn't hard to get to South Temperance on Day 1.

I think it really all depends on your start time and speed. I have a Sawbill permit and I am planning nearly the same route (solo and single portaging) for late May and I plan on getting to South Temperance on day one, and if I have a lot of daylight left I may push to Cherokee and gamble on the campsite availability. With that said, I'm putting it at 5:30-6am to be the first on the water and hopefully avoid any traffic on at least the first portage out of Sawbill.

Burnt is a good place to stop if you are putting in at a later time and want to guarantee yourself a campsite though. And Sawbill can get windy like a wind-tunnel sometimes, so that adds a variable.

I think that most have covered the salient points:
1. Day one is too short.
2. Day 2 is too long. (The portage out of Burnt to Kelly has a lot of ups and downs and the portage from Sitka to Cherokee has not one flat spot anywhere.)

Have you thought of reversing your route? e.g.

Day 1 Sawbill to Cherokee
Day 2 Day trip to Frost Lake.
Day 3 Cherokee to Weird or Jack Lakes
Day 4 Out to Sawbill.

Alternately, can you add a fifth day?

Some other observations:

Running through the Temperance River watershed is a waste. It is one of the most beautiful spots in the BW. Long narrow lakes with easy portages. Nice hills and great water plants. There is a chance to see moose, and there is some great fishing to be found. Don't forget to stop and find the abandoned mine west of the north end of the Kelly to Jack portage.

South Temperance Lake is a beauty. Islands of various sizes stud the lake and make for very scenic vistas. I love to stand at the southern portage end and just take in the view.

You don't say what time of year you are going to Frost, but take your swimsuit. (The golden sand beach is calling my name!)

Pick a good campsite for night sky viewing on Cherokee. Great open sight lines can give you some wonderful stargazing. A nighttime paddle is fun too.

Hope you have a great trip.

Welcome to the site!

Lots of good advice here already! Your backpacking experience will serve you well. More details about your style of backpacking will help with giving advice for your style of canoeing. If you single portage with your backpacking gear, I don't think your day 2 is overly ambitious at all. I measure it at 9.8 miles of water and 2.7 miles of (single) portage. Double portaging turns that into 8.1 miles on the ground (5.4 with a load) which is less appealing. Lengthening your first day to at least Kelly would make this much more manageable. If Frost is your priority I'd suggest planning on a clockwise route so that you have the option to return to Sawbill via the way you came, for whatever reason. Another possibility with a clockwise route is having the nice folks at Sawbill Canoe Outfitters shuttle your car to Baker Lake.

One of the best pieces of advice I've picked up from this site over the years is to expect your trip to not go according to plan. Especially being your first trip to the area, an open mind will serve you better than a well planned route will.

Amen.