So a question about what gear to replace?

I have ultralight, backpacking gear. Everything from titanium cookware that doubles as plates, Whisperlight stove, Sierra cup, interior and exterior framed packs (depending on the trip). Even a spork to save an ounce of weight!
Do you all think differently? Do you take more "luxury" items?

I've read that my packs are inappropriate. I might also want to bring along a few h20 proof bags.

From my reading, I see BWCA people eat a lot better. I like that!

How useful do you folks consider stoves like the Whisperlight on canoe trips?

What about footware? Tarps? I wouldn't dream of packing a tarp on a backpacking trip. It seems EVERYONE takes tarps to BWCA.

I just finished reading A Fork In The Trail-Laurie Ann March and Canoeing and Camping, beyond the basics-Cliff Jacobson.

Both outstanding reads. I learned a great deal.

i don't think you have to replace anything.whisperlite is a fine stove for anywhere,hiking boots on the portages would be good if you don't mind getting them wet if you have to--i've been out for weeks and dry foot all the time--the pack would be better that a "sack" for the carry's and if your careful it won't get hung up during the load and unloading at the portages.i don't know what hikers do on rainy days in camp but trippers like to get under a tarp around the fire.maybe you could take less freeze dry food on canoe trips.i think it would be a easy thing to change from hiking to canoe tripping than the other way around.try a short trip of say a week with just what you would take on a hike and add just the boat,paddle and PFD.the results would make a great trip report and have some lessons for us who over pack.

I would suggest using what you have. I just now replaced my external frame packs that I've had for 27 years. I agree with WCD. A short trip using what you now have will help you determine what you would need to modify.

whatever you have will work just fine, there may be room for improvement, but you will learn that as you go. I would however make extra precautions to keep your gear dry in case you dump your canoe. a simple contractor cleanup bag is what many people use, or they make large "sea-line" bags that can be used as pack liners.

I'd keep your gear for starters, rent a portage pack for it, then paddle and try it all out. It's just me, but I wouldn't take a regular hiking pack in unless I had to, though I know those that do it and are fine. If you decide you are a wetfoot paddler, you can trade in hiking boots for something water friendly. We do carry more socks/shoes than hikers I would bet because some of us have wet feet all day and like to dry off in the evenings.

When do you go?

If there is an area you hate about hiking/packing, then you could look at changing that on a canoe trip - long for a chair in camp? want fresh food that's never been shrink wrapped? want to bring War and Peace? All possible, for a price. Depending on your route (you can in theory put in on a large lake and camp on it) you can bring the kitchen sink if you are missing it. If you want to be mobile and see more lakes and get away from crowds, then hang on tight to your minimalist approach and see how far it takes you.

Good luck and welcome.

i agree with the tenor of the comments thus far: your ultralight backpacking gear will make for great bwca gear. you are starting light, and that is always a great way to start.

if i was in your situation, i think my first purchase, as you suggest, would be a couple of waterproof stuff sacks -- one for my sleeping bag and one for my clothes. i'm very unwilling to have wet clothes or a wet sleeping bag. i often "double bag" (waterproof stuff sack in a water proof pack). to state the obvious, you'll come in contact with water far more frequently than on the trail.

maybe you'll like sea to summit's dry bag line. the bags perform well and are lightweight (with all the time you've spent saving ounces, you'll probably always resist some of the "heavier" canoe camping gear choices).

my second thought would be towards an expanded food storage strategy. you'll read descriptions here of diverse approaches, from the most expensive (insulated canoe food packs) to the least expensive (five gallon paint buckets in army surplus duffle bags) and many in between. but if you relish (no pun intended) the chance to dine a little more extravagantly than lipton soup mix and a power bar, then you'll want a way to keep that food together and keep it from bears and other woodland creatures. as the weight and bulk of food increases, bear-proofing it takes on additional challenges.

you'll find myriad threads about footwear and tarps. tarps allow bigger groups to gather (rather than sending everyone back to their own tents) and they make camp more comfortable if you are going to stay for a day or two. and you'll find the silnylon options (from ccs, for example) are ultralight.

everyone has their own opinions on footwear. but most agree that (at least) two pairs are essential -- one when you are underway and one for camp -- because one pair will almost certainly get wet, and you'll want to give that pair -- and your feet! -- some time to dry.

in general, a backpacker's skills and perspective will be highly relevant -- and beneficial to canoe campers without it -- in the bwca.

Go out with what you have and make the changes as you see fit. I'm still making changes and I've been going to the BDUB for yrs. Many members here have been going in for 20 to 35 yrs and they have this down to a science. There ia a learning curve that applies to the way you travel (loop or Base camp). It's easy to become a gear junkie. I know I am one. Experience will be your best teacher.

If I was to suggest one piece of gear, Kevlar Canoe, one that works for your style of camping, other then that welcome and enjoy.

If I was to suggest one piece of gear, Kevlar Canoe, one that works for your style of camping, other then that welcome and enjoy."

BAD BAD BAD...
Bad advice on the Kevlar canoe. I strongly suggest you use the heaviest aluminum canoe you can find, especially one that has leaks at the seams of the float chambers to allow water in so you can portage a couple extra gallons of water with you!

You need to experience the pain of a metal canoe before you can appreciate the light stuff. Without true pain, I couldn't have experienced remorse free joy of drilling 1/2" drains holes in my dad's 85# Lund canoe after my first trip.

Seriously, slowly gear up as you go and test & learn as you go. Eat better food, take a tarp, and start out cheap or borrowing gear. Read this site and you will build some of your own gear or not be afraid of things like "kitty litter buckets" or "maytag lids". At least those items offset the expensive stuff when you get Jones-ing really bad.

I also transitioned from primarily backpacking to canoe camping - still do both. At first I used all of my backpacking gear, but over the years I have slowly transitioned by picking up new gear each year more fit for canoe camping. I still use some equipment for both.

Keep it all, especially the "packing light philosophy" single portaging can get you out away from the crowds where good fishing still exists.

Easier to go from backpacking to canoeing than canoeing to backpacking.

It'll all work, a big difference is that your pack WILL GET WET - waterproofing a backpack is harder to do, and they tend to be a bit more difficult to get into and out of the canoe.

quote Beemer01: "Easier to go from backpacking to canoeing than canoeing to backpacking.


It'll all work, a big difference is that your pack WILL GET WET - waterproofing a backpack is harder to do, and they tend to be a bit more difficult to get into and out of the canoe."

I would agree with this. I didn't get entirely geared up where I wanted to be for the BW until my 3rd trip. For that 3rd trip, I bought a lot of stuff. After the trip, we decided to start doing BW every other year and find somewhere to go backpacking during the non-BW years. Well, I ended up having to re-buy a ton of gear (pack, lighter sleeping pad, new sleeping bag, lighter cookware/stove, trekking poles, stuff sacks, GPS) to be light enough for our Yosemite trip this summer. The GPS wasn't a "need" but it'll be a nice insurance policy since I'm new to backpacking and if we're gonna be off-trail, I'll be glad to do the "are we sure we are where we think we are" check if things ever don't seem right.

I even wanted to get a new tent but after buying all that, I had to draw the line somewhere so my TNF Tadpole will have to do, even though she's heavier than I want. However, now that I'm set I don't have to buy any gear so future trips will only cost me the permits, travel and food....and maybe a lighter tent for 2012 :)

If I had gone the other way around, the only thing I would have had to buy was a portage pack.

I agree with others. Basically, your backpacking gear will work. The internal frame pack will work better than the exterior, but neither will work as well as a canoe pack. Maybe you can use the internal frame and rent a canoe pack for comparison. I have rented canoe packs and left my internal frame home since my first trip. As others have noted, keeping gear dry is a bigger issue. I also use the waterproof stuff sacks for sleeping bag and clothing, as well as some other things. I also line the packs with with heavy contractor trash bags. You'll also want a dry pair of camp shoes. I always take a tarp for those days we're stuck in camp - too windy to travel, lightning. It's nice, especially if your tent is really small. I double portage anyway, so the loads aren't real heavy. You can do the same with food as you've been doing - just be aware that in some of the burn and blow-down areas, there may not be any hanging trees. A lot easier to transition from backpacking than car camping and use the same gear. I tell new people that what we'll be doing is not like car camping with a boat, but more like backpacking with a canoe. Have fun. You'll be fine with what you have.

I agree to use what you have. We travel pretty light for the BW but heavier than if we were backpacking. We add things like more desserts, a very light chair for me, a saw for campfires, extra clothes. We actually use external frame packs that have dry bags on them and are set up for portaging. So either of your packs will work. Or also rent a canoe style pack and see if you like that. A tarp is a nice luxury when it is raining during dinner. My first two trips were done with water sneakers and then I switched to boots designed for portaging (Quetico Trekkers by Chota). And being able to carry the extra food is nice too.

I think going with your lightweight gear and a few luxuries will make a nice trip.

I think you'll be fine with your current stuff.


People seem to like duluth packs, but I think it may be more tradition than necessity. Once you start going, stop at the end of the portages and take a look at the people using duluth packs and the people using frame packs and then compare which ones look like they are in less pain.


:)

Stay light.

You may need a different pack, as others have suggested. Otherwise just add some 'luxury' food, a paddle and a fishing pole :)

quote bradcrc: "People seem to like duluth packs, but I think it may be more tradition than necessity. Once you start going, stop at the end of the portages and take a look at the people using duluth packs and the people using frame packs and then compare which ones look like they are in less pain. "

Hey now... portage packs are not all that bad for backpacking. Mine backpack regularly - relatively short distances (up to 3 miles in, 3 miles out) and do just fine. We use them to backpack into state and national parks to campsites or cabins, as well as BW tripping. My spouse's old external frame pack that saw hundreds of miles of walking has been gathering dust since the canoe packs took over. Of course my packs have padded backs, hip and sternum belts, and all the adjustment straps and D-rings you could want...

quote BWPaddler: " Of course my packs have padded backs, hip and sternum belts, and all the adjustment straps and D-rings you could want..."

well now, those aren't exactly the duluth packs I was referring to then... ;)


nothing wrong with using duluth packs if you like em, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who only use em cause they think they are supposed to.

Personally, I find the ergonomic advancements made over the last 150 years to be worthwhile. :)

I was also going to add that not all canoe packs are duluth packs. Many, like those made by Granite Gear - a name you may be familiar with from your backpacking background - are more like internal frame packs with padded shoulder straps, sternum straps, padded backs, and waist belts. They are plenty comfortable for portaging.

quote boonie: "I was also going to add that not all canoe packs are duluth packs. Many, like those made by Granite Gear - a name you may be familiar with from your backpacking background - are more like internal frame packs with padded shoulder straps, sternum straps, padded backs, and waist belts. They are plenty comfortable for portaging. "

Very valid point - most of the competing canoe pack makers (CCS, Kondos, Granite Gear to name a few competing in this mico sized market) have pack that incorporate many features offered in modern backpacks.

Cooke Custom Sewing's Pioneer Pack is a good example, but there are others.

quote bradcrc: "nothing wrong with using duluth packs if you like em, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who only use em cause they think they are supposed to."

I have to admit that when I first started looking for BW gear, I **wanted** one of the classic Duluth Pack bags. I really wanted the authentic Duluth Pack of legendary stories, etc. I bought a few packs including a Duluth Pack, took them home, stuffed some gear into them and walked up and down from the house to the lake (can't recall if I added the canoe on top or not).

In any case, one trek and I knew that for ME, the padded backs were well worth it and I had to let go of the idea that "classic" was better than "functional". I still peruse the Duluth Pack catalogs and love the feel of the canvas and the leather... and some day I may actually buy one as part of a fleet of bags - for soft stuff only - but as my only bag? Nope.

Sorry, didn't mean to get us too far OT or start a debate about Duluth Packs... but yes, you're right when you said my packs were not the ones you were talking about.

I have an internal frame bpack that works fine for canoeing. I also have a couple portage packs - my bpack is used as a loaner for when other folks want to come along who aren't so equipped.

The only problem (if you can even call it that) with the bpack is that they don't fit well in the bottom of the canoe. Portage packs and shorter and square to fit the canoe. Bpacks are long and can't fit sideways.

When canoeing, depending on where you go, your stuff is in the canoe (as opposed to on your back) 90% of the time. So saving weight isn't really an issue. I'm a notorious over-packer too (so much "luxury" gear!). My portage pack often weighs in at 70 lbs. plus, not including food.

And I bring a lb. of coffee, dried milk, sweetener, and a stainless steel insulated 20 oz. mug - just for coffee (forget that sierra cup crap!).

I bring a pillow, two tarps, a pack table, like 3 flashlights, extra batteries, radio... yeah, I'm bad.

i regularly use a large capacity (4500+ cu. in.) internal frame pack for tents, cook kit, stove, fuel, and other heavy, high density gear. i find that it makes it a lot more comfortable to carry on long, rugged portages. AND, because i'm not concerned about that gear staying dry, i find it easier to pack that into an internal frame pack with its two main compartments and smaller pockets/compartments.

and, laid down on it's side alongside the yoke or a thwart, or even laid down with the straps facing the sky, it's never seemed hard to fit it into the canoe. i won't dispute that a true portage pack sits on the bottom of the canoe more naturally, but even a large internal frame pack goes in and out without too much trouble.

but i'll also confess that my portage packs are NOT equipped with the most comfortable padding and straps (including one hardcore, old school canvas and leather duluth pack). so i try to keep those portage packs as light as possible. the comfort contrast between my internal frame pack and portage packs is significant.

quote thatguyjeff:

(forget that sierra cup crap!).

;] Since I'm not getting any younger, I'm liking the sound of this.

Can't figure out how to quote just one line and then add my own words. ?

quote jaimed: "

quote thatguyjeff:


Can't figure out how to quote just one line and then add my own words. ?



"

Just hit reply with quote, then edit out the part you don't want, then after the "

add what you want to say

quote boonie: "

quote jaimed: "

quote thatguyjeff:



Can't figure out how to quote just one line and then add my own words. ?



"

Just hit reply with quote, then edit out the part you don't want, then after the quote add what you want to say"

quote boonie: "

quote boonie: "

quote jaimed: "

quote thatguyjeff:



Can't figure out how to quote just one line and then add my own words. ?




"

Just hit reply with quote, then edit out the part you don't want, then after the quote add what you want to say"

"

There

LMAO... You're doing a great job, Boonie.

Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that.
I guess you cannot do a quote in red (or what ever this color and typeface is) and then go back to black typeface within the same message.

quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that.
I guess you cannot do a quote in red (or what ever this color and typeface is) and then go back to black typeface within the same message."

you mean like this?

quote BWPaddler: "

quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that.
I guess you cannot do a quote in red (or what ever this color and typeface is) and then go back to black typeface within the same message."

you mean like this?"

Ok I have to try this...

quote Savage Voyageur: "

quote BWPaddler: "

quote jaimed: "Guess I didn't make myself clear. I understand to click on quote and edit out material and then type away. I already did that.
I guess you cannot do a quote in red (or what ever this color and typeface is) and then go back to black typeface within the same message."

you mean like this?"

Ok I have to try this..."

Got it down now :)

How?

quote jaimed: "How?"

Testing

Okay, got it.

quote jaimed: "

quote jaimed: "How?"

Testing

Okay, got it."

There

quote boonie: "

quote jaimed: "

quote jaimed: "How?"

Testing


Okay, got it."

There"

Yeah, that's what I thought, Jackfish :). Apparently, it just wasn't working at that time. Just took me a while to figure that out :).

LOL... glad you got it, Boonie. You know I was just teasing you, right?

Now if we can just get people to start using the "Add a link" feature...

quote Jackfish: "LOL... glad you got it, Boonie. You know I was just teasing you, right?

Now if we can just get people to start using the "Add a link" feature..."

Yeah, I know you were, Jackfish. No problemo. I thought it was pretty funny at the time too. I was doing what I did before and not getting the same results. In fact, I was getting the same results he was.

I've got the "add a link" feature down too...but I haven't used it in a couple of days ;).

We started as backpackers too so the only thing we needed (to start) was the canoe and paddles. We have external frame packs that are great on the trail but you can't wear the pack and carry the canoe! Our first foray into canoe specific gear was a smaller capacity canoe pack that we used as a food pack. Usually it's light enough that I can carry the canoe and it at the same time with no balancing on the pack. That keeps us to me double portaging and the wife single portaging. That to me is the biggest issue with backpacks. You guys with internal frame packs able to carry the canoe and pack simultaneously?

quote bradcrc: "I think you'll be fine with your current stuff.



People seem to like duluth packs, but I think it may be more tradition than necessity. Once you start going, stop at the end of the portages and take a look at the people using duluth packs and the people using frame packs and then compare which ones look like they are in less pain.



:)



"

I couldn't agree more. I would rather be comfortable on the trail than save the 10 seconds it takes to load the canoe with a internal frame backpack. I've always loaded my internal frame(and some external frames) below the gunwales. So once loaded there is no difference. I don't understand why people are so worried about saving time loading and unloading the canoe.

I'm going to follow earlier advise and go with the gear I have with a few small additions like h20 proof stuff sacks to keep essentials dry and think hard about different footwear. I don't see a need for serious hiking boots...I'll keep my Thermarest chair converters (they work great). Think I'll add a camp axe and Sawvivor saw. Whew, hew! Now I'm going crazy (wink) ;]
I see the cost/benefit of taking a tarp. I'll do that. I'm also thinking hard about food. I'd like to take a few more "luxury" foods. I have children to impress the virtues of this life style. I'm not planning on going hog wild on cooking though. I really like A Fork in the Trail-Laurie Ann March and Wilderness Cuisine-Carole Latimer. I'll stick with these recipes for the most part.
I think peoples concern about packs is not so much how difficult it is getting in and out of a canoe rather how difficult it is carrying a canoe with the pack sticking up so high. Am I right? I'm going to deal with it though, at least for the first trip with the "troops". We'll see after that.
This looks very doable and rather tame compared to some of the things I've done BC (before children). WE should have a wonderful time in the "snaky woods" as my 3 year old calls it. Those with little kids should get this joke.
Next big questions to tackle are a route and canoe. I'll save those questions for after I do some research on my own. I found my map from 25 years ago. It's a little worn and has a bunch of blood stains from killing mosquitoes but I'm sure the lakes haven't moved ;]

The only thing you need is a 5 gal. bucket. Everything else will work fine. Oh, a paddle and canoe.

Jaimed,
This is a great place for advice and you're soaking it up.

Pretty soon you will be geared up and at... Three trees.

H