Looking at equipment needs for our crew this year and the big need seems to be upgrading our rain gear. The grandkids are covered by what they have been using but for the four adults we need new rain gear that keeps the rain out. We're ready to buy better gear so we can use it for our other outdoor pursuits which is mainly hunting, fishing and more hunting.

We have narrowed the choices down to two so I'm asking this knowledgeable forum for input on the following:
- Simms CX Rain Jacket and Bibs
- Johnny Morris Bass Pro Shop Guidewear Elite Jacket and Bibs

Both are pricier than what we have wore in the past but we are ready to take the next step when it comes to rain gear. If you have other recommendations feel free to share those too. Thanks for the help.

Papalambeau

Hi Papalambeau,

I dug into this topic in detail a couple years ago and have a post here that you might enjoy:

https://kitchi-gami.com/2018/10/28/a-simple-outdoor-clothing-system-layer-6-waterproof-breathable-shells/

This is part of a broader series on outdoor clothing systems in general with a heavy emphasis on my experience in the BWCA.

My general feeling on waterproof/breathable raingear (based on about 30 years of working in the outdoor industry) is that none of it really breathes that well when you're working hard and all of it wears out eventually. This tips my preference toward Gore-Tex products, which are among the most durable options and toward manufacturers who have super-warranties that will replace a failed jacket without questions. I've had excellent warranty service from Arcteryx and Patagonia and adequate service from Mountain Hardwear.

Pick a good brand with a great warranty. Buy simple, lightweight raingear. Consider Gore-Tex Paclite for it's durability.

Brian

I've used about every variation of waterproof breathable fabric available to date and they all have the same problem in that once the DWR wears out (which doesn't take much at all) they're basically no longer breathable and you left with an expensive heavy windbreaker that's usually not very durable.

I've gone back to using the “smelly Hellies” Brian mentions above in his article (minus the bibs) for most trips unless I'm doing a short/fast/light trip. The HH gear is more durable, easier to dry, more reliable, and much cheaper. Perhaps A difference from Brian's experience is that I wear mostly wool clothing which makes wearing the impermeable shells a bit more tolerable in my experience.

If I'm going fast and light I'm learning to appreciate a good poncho over rain gear except for situations where It's likely to get snagged up a lot (brush busting while hunting, rock climbing, etc).

The problem I have with rain gear is that it doesn't actually keep you dry unless you aren't moving, and if you aren't moving, you are probably sitting under a tarp anyways. I still bring some, and have a pretty nice set, but I feel like all it does is block the wind.

If it is raining hard enough and for long enough that it is worth it to dig out the rain jacket, then chances are it's humid too. When it gets that humid, any rain gear is going to get you sweaty. Maybe some really high end stuff that's way out of my budget can help, but I never bothered to look into it.

This is why I don't see breathability as an important factor for my trips in June. I just use a heavier set of rain gear that I bought when I was working at ValleyFair 15-20 years ago. I think they are similar to frog-togs.

I bought a Cabelas goretex rain jacket over 20 years ago. Still keeps me dry. I also have a goretex jacket from Propper tactical clothing. Comes down halfway between the knees and the waist. Has velcro closures on the sleeves, cinch cord for the waist, zippers to zip in a fleece liner, and a large enough hood to wear a hat and/or head lamp under. Also had that one for over ten years and still works great.

We have the Patagonia Torrent 3L rain jackets. Amazing is all I can say! Have had them for two years. Only light use in BWCA since we got them but used them at home in downpours. Water runs off like crazy and beads up in light rain. Bought during an REI sale for about $150 each. Have used REI brand and North face rain jackets before but each was just ok. Wanted something better but also not spend a ton of money.

Learned that this is a true 3 layer jacket and most rain jackets sold are 2.5 layers at best (learned to accept the concept of a .5 layer in the rating system) unless you got with really high end ones - even Gore Tex jackets.

Can't attest to how breatheable is really is but have done outside work in it and felt comfortable. But my base position is any jacket that keeps water out, probably isn't going to let much heat or moisture out so I go in not expecting a ton of breathability. It packs small. It is a bit crinckly but acceptable.

Main concern is keeping dry and it does that extremely well.

Brian, those are incredible articles, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights!

RodPortage: "Brian, those are incredible articles, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights!"

Thanks RodPortage. Glad you enjoyed them!

I have been through lots of rain gear over the years, from the non breathable coated stuff to the high end 3 layer Gore-Tex. I commend you for willing to spend and commit to a higher quality, longer lasting piece of gear. I had a couple of Marmot precip jackets, that while reasonably priced, started to fail after a few years of hard use. Those type of jackets and pants are essentially throw away and I am guessing they do not decompose in the landfill very quickly.

I think you get what you pay for in most cases. If you buy high quality rain gear and retreat the DWR every year or so, you should get 10 - 20 years of service out of them. You also should get excellent warranty support with a good brand. I still have a totally serviceable LLBean Gore-Tex ski jacket I bought 28 years ago when I was a ski bum in Colorado. I saved my pennies and splurged and it was worth it.

I currently have a LLBean 3 layer Gore-Tex jacket and Kuiu 3 layer Gore-Tex pants. They are both excellent. Kuiu markets their stuff towards hunters, but their gear is well thought out and super durable. Keep your eyes on their website and watch for a sale a few times a year.

As Brian mentioned, Gore-Tex support is incredible. Last year, I had a pair of Meindl hiking boots that started leaking 1 month after the 12 month warranty expired and the US distributor would not help. They suggested that I submit a warranty claim to Gore-Tex instead. I contacted them, and within a week of sending the boots to their testing lab in Seattle, they cut me a check for the full price of the boots. It was super impressive.

Mike

Thank you for all of the input. I will be checking for sales at REI, Cabela's and Scheels the next couple of weeks. I have a few gift cards that are starting to burn a few holes in my pockets!

Blessings

Papalambeau

A1t2o: "The problem I have with rain gear is that it doesn't actually keep you dry unless you aren't moving, and if you aren't moving, you are probably sitting under a tarp anyways. I still bring some, and have a pretty nice set, but I feel like all it does is block the wind.


If it is raining hard enough and for long enough that it is worth it to dig out the rain jacket, then chances are it's humid too. When it gets that humid, any rain gear is going to get you sweaty. Maybe some really high end stuff that's way out of my budget can help, but I never bothered to look into it.


This is why I don't see breathability as an important factor for my trips in June. I just use a heavier set of rain gear that I bought when I was working at ValleyFair 15-20 years ago. I think they are similar to frog-togs."

I have a pair of Frog Togg pants that I have used for roughly ten years and an old north face outer shell coat that I spray with a water proofing spray from fleet farm before each use. Both have worked fine. I use them in the fall when coaching football as well.