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01/16/2025 03:40PM
The 2024 bear encounters dropped significantly, about 80%. Natures Food availability makes a difference also, but berry crop was just so so.
For those whom can access page, it is a great, very informative local newspaper.
Bears coming to dinner
For those whom can access page, it is a great, very informative local newspaper.
Bears coming to dinner
01/16/2025 03:45PM
Marshall Helmberger
REGIONAL—This past year brought plenty of weather extremes, from a record mild winter to record June rain, followed by a worsening drought. Such conditions made it a tough one for the region’s bear population, which relies heavily on natural foods that rarely produce well under extreme conditions.
The limited natural foods prompted a sharp increase in bear nuisance reports across northern Minnesota— except for within the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, where a new wilderness-wide order designed to reduce human-bear interactions, may have helped keep this longstanding problem in check.
At a time when other bear problems were on the rise in the region, Superior National Forest officials report that nuisance bear complaints fell sharply within the 1.1-million-acre Boundary Waters wilderness. Fewer than ten such reports were recorded last year, just a fraction of the average of 40-50 reports experienced over the previous four years.
Forest officials note that several factors can influence the number of bear-human interactions, so they aren’t claiming the reduction was solely due to the forest order.
The order, labeled 09-09-24-02, requires all overnight campers within the BWCAW use bear-proof food containers or hang their food packs at least 12 feet in the air and six feet from the nearest tree trunk.
REGIONAL—This past year brought plenty of weather extremes, from a record mild winter to record June rain, followed by a worsening drought. Such conditions made it a tough one for the region’s bear population, which relies heavily on natural foods that rarely produce well under extreme conditions.
The limited natural foods prompted a sharp increase in bear nuisance reports across northern Minnesota— except for within the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, where a new wilderness-wide order designed to reduce human-bear interactions, may have helped keep this longstanding problem in check.
At a time when other bear problems were on the rise in the region, Superior National Forest officials report that nuisance bear complaints fell sharply within the 1.1-million-acre Boundary Waters wilderness. Fewer than ten such reports were recorded last year, just a fraction of the average of 40-50 reports experienced over the previous four years.
Forest officials note that several factors can influence the number of bear-human interactions, so they aren’t claiming the reduction was solely due to the forest order.
The order, labeled 09-09-24-02, requires all overnight campers within the BWCAW use bear-proof food containers or hang their food packs at least 12 feet in the air and six feet from the nearest tree trunk.
01/16/2025 06:35PM
If the rest of the state saw a "sharp increase in bear nuisance reports" and the BWCA saw a 75-80% reduction, it sure looks like an effective policy! Thanks for the link and the transcript.
TZ
TZ
If you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. African Proverb
01/16/2025 06:54PM
I think it is coincidence. We contacted at least a hundred+ campers in the BW in 2024 and talked to them about food storage. Most of them knew about the new regulations, but only a handful seemed to change their ways. I did see an improvement from 2023 in food storage.
I do think that the new new food storage orders will result in fewer bear encounters in the future when the dust settles from these new regulations.
I do think that the new new food storage orders will result in fewer bear encounters in the future when the dust settles from these new regulations.
May the rivers be crooked and winding, and your portages lonesome, leading to the most amazing view.
01/17/2025 06:23AM
I think I go along with linden tree on this. Total permits in the 45000 range and total visitors in the 150,000 range, just not seeing 10 vs 40-50 as statistically very significant, but perhaps a trend. Also wonder if problem and the resultant order isn't a little over reaction.
01/17/2025 09:29AM
I think it’s clear that something is working. But there are so many other possible variables that it’s hard to be conclusive, but I would be interested in finding out what else has changed in the BWCA area that may have affected the bear situation.
01/21/2025 08:46AM
afromaniac: "Entirely possible that the new rule kept people on a higher alert and had a subtle ripple effect. Who knows! "
agree, nothing else, it made people more aware they have to do something.
Also would like to see how many different lakes problem exists?
01/21/2025 09:08AM
The apparent concensus of this thread is that hanging is not effective bear deterrent (c.r. Cliff Jacobsen). That leaves what options are available. For the ultra lightweight one portage guys that is probaby Ursack. For those of us that are base campers with no portages or one portage, bear certified coolers. For those in the middle, BV500s. The blue barrel seems to be done
01/21/2025 09:48AM
ockycamper: "The apparent concensus of this thread is that hanging is not effective bear deterrent (c.r. Cliff Jacobsen). That leaves what options are available. For the ultra lightweight one portage guys that is probaby Ursack. For those of us that are base campers with no portages or one portage, bear certified coolers. For those in the middle, BV500s. The blue barrel seems to be done"
I think it truly helps, probably nothing is 100%. Also I have seen too often, when people leave a campsite I have seen people dump leftover fish and other food dumped by the fire grill. That is a sure come to dinner for Yogi. People are just lazy and sloppy. Some people.
01/21/2025 04:09PM
I’ve been a blue barrel guy but the last two years I’ve done a combination of an Ursak and/or Bear Vault. I’ve gotta say that I’ve been dehydrating more food and think I’m getting used to using both methods in place of the old, faithful barrel. I’m waiting on delivery of the new REI orange scalable-sized vault. I’m looking forward to using it. At least until a bear treats it like a big ol’ football and drop-kicks it into the middle of Omega Lake. :-)
01/21/2025 09:07PM
chessie: "While correlation does not equal causation, this is a significant reduction. Will be interesting to consider possible variables as well as see what happens in the next couple years ... "
I have a theory. People are now more aware that they can be fined, or even jailed, for not following the food storage rules. With that in mind, campers are now less likely to report a bear-in-camp problem for fear that an over zealous ranger may form the opinion that the bear problem was a result of them not following the rules. I know that's how I feel. Should I ever have a bear-in-camp visit I'm probably not going to go tell a ranger about it.
01/21/2025 09:56PM
Pinetree: "The 2024 bear encounters dropped significantly, about 80%. Natures Food availability makes a difference also, but berry crop was just so so.
For those whom can access page, it is a great, very informative local newspaper.
Bears coming to dinner "
That report is totally bogus…
There were more than 10 reports just on this website last season. I know 3 others who had bear problems not on this website and the FS reports only 10 bear issues? I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell…
As Linden stated very few changed their methods so even if these made up stats are correct it would be a total coincidence. But there is ABSOLUTELY no way there were only 10 bear reports in the BWCAW in 2024.
T
“Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.” Henry David Thoreau
01/22/2025 10:14AM
scottiebaldwin: "I’ve been a blue barrel guy but the last two years I’ve done a combination of an Ursak and/or Bear Vault. I’ve gotta say that I’ve been dehydrating more food and think I’m getting used to using both methods in place of the old, faithful barrel. I’m waiting on delivery of the new REI orange scalable-sized vault. I’m looking forward to using it. At least until a bear treats it like a big ol’ football and drop-kicks it into the middle of Omega Lake. :-)"
That's the first I've seen those. Kind of neat but a full pound heavier than a Bear Vault. I wonder if it's more secure.
01/22/2025 06:37PM
LesliesDad: "chessie: "While correlation does not equal causation, this is a significant reduction. Will be interesting to consider possible variables as well as see what happens in the next couple years ... "
I have a theory. People are now more aware that they can be fined, or even jailed, for not following the food storage rules. With that in mind, campers are now less likely to report a bear-in-camp problem for fear that an over zealous ranger may form the opinion that the bear problem was a result of them not following the rules. I know that's how I feel. Should I ever have a bear-in-camp visit I'm probably not going to go tell a ranger about it. "
It must stink to go through life thinking people are always out to get you!
I'll wager a very large sum that no one ever ends up in jail over a bear hang (or lack thereof) without extreme extenuating circumstances. The USFS basically said as much. They are approaching the new rule as "education first".
I have interacted with numerous USFS Rangers and both state and federal game wardens over many years. I have always been treated respectfully and cordially, even on two occasions years ago when a game warden could have technically written me a ticket. I would never hesitate to approach a ranger or warden to discuss a significant backcountry event. All in all, a great group of public servants in my opinion.
01/23/2025 01:41PM
There are so many variables, I think it's hard to know what this report means or doesn't. That's why I like the various comments even if I don't agree with some; food for thought on a cold winter's day. 2 more cents:
The article cites "nuisance bear reports." If a bear sniffs around camp, is scared off but comes back to be scared away again, is it a nuisance if it never gets human food? If it goes at my properly tied Ursack and crushes some food but doesn't actually get it? If the previous campers dumped mac and cheese in the privy or left fish guts close by in the brush but the responding bear never goes for my no-longer-legal blue barrel in the woods? If it takes off with my bear vault and leaves it 50 yds away but only scratched and slobbered?
All or none of these could be nuisance bear reports, I don't know. None of them are triggered by my specific method of food storage, legal or not.
Finally, it's always seemed to me (again, who really knows?) that a large spike in nuisance bear reports some years can be caused by one bad (and, sadly, doomed) bear repeatedly getting in trouble over a season on one or a few nearby lakes. You can have an Agnes or Rose/Duncan bear situation and end up with a true nuisance bear report even if your own food storage is perfect and perfectly legal.
The article cites "nuisance bear reports." If a bear sniffs around camp, is scared off but comes back to be scared away again, is it a nuisance if it never gets human food? If it goes at my properly tied Ursack and crushes some food but doesn't actually get it? If the previous campers dumped mac and cheese in the privy or left fish guts close by in the brush but the responding bear never goes for my no-longer-legal blue barrel in the woods? If it takes off with my bear vault and leaves it 50 yds away but only scratched and slobbered?
All or none of these could be nuisance bear reports, I don't know. None of them are triggered by my specific method of food storage, legal or not.
Finally, it's always seemed to me (again, who really knows?) that a large spike in nuisance bear reports some years can be caused by one bad (and, sadly, doomed) bear repeatedly getting in trouble over a season on one or a few nearby lakes. You can have an Agnes or Rose/Duncan bear situation and end up with a true nuisance bear report even if your own food storage is perfect and perfectly legal.
Sun went down in honey and the moon came up in wine -- John Barlow
01/23/2025 02:48PM
oldzip: "thanks for the photo of the new bear vaults...why are the vaults always round?"
Round containers are stronger. Which is why most liquid containers are round, from pop bottles to tanker trucks. The much better strength to weight ratio makes up for the less efficient space utilization.
01/23/2025 07:29PM
oldzip: "thanks for the photo of the new bear vaults...why are the vaults always round?"
From what I’ve heard is round containers are harder for bears to grip and carry off or grip to wrench open, or grip enough to naw on to open. Makes them more bear resistant.
EDIT: or maybe I should off read the post above me first LOL. Makes sense
T
“Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.” Henry David Thoreau
01/23/2025 07:32PM
Sunburn: "LesliesDad: "chessie: "While correlation does not equal causation, this is a significant reduction. Will be interesting to consider possible variables as well as see what happens in the next couple years ... "
I have a theory. People are now more aware that they can be fined, or even jailed, for not following the food storage rules. With that in mind, campers are now less likely to report a bear-in-camp problem for fear that an over zealous ranger may form the opinion that the bear problem was a result of them not following the rules. I know that's how I feel. Should I ever have a bear-in-camp visit I'm probably not going to go tell a ranger about it. "
It must stink to go through life thinking people are always out to get you!
I'll wager a very large sum that no one ever ends up in jail over a bear hang (or lack thereof) without extreme extenuating circumstances. The USFS basically said as much. They are approaching the new rule as "education first".
I have interacted with numerous USFS Rangers and both state and federal game wardens over many years. I have always been treated respectfully and cordially, even on two occasions years ago when a game warden could have technically written me a ticket. I would never hesitate to approach a ranger or warden to discuss a significant backcountry event. All in all, a great group of public servants in my opinion."
It’s actually a well thought out theory…it’s okay to disagree with it. I personally didn’t take it as anyone was out to get them. The initial publication on the rules were very harsh and highlighted the maximum sentence. They walked it back quite a bit, but not everyone is following this all the time.
There are a lot of areas where you cannot hang a pack properly due to I the recent fires. If you did your best and had a bear altercation when you weren’t following the rules inadvertently…while I agree the FS would likely not do anything, why would everyone have that assumption? Not everyone has ever had interactions with staff. Heck there are people who still think they will get a fine if they happen to be portaging with another group and technically break the 9 person rule(they never will), why would people think the FS would let them off for inadvertently violating the food storage order then?
There is room for both of you to be right.
T
“Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after.” Henry David Thoreau
01/29/2025 03:36PM
timatkn: "Sunburn: "LesliesDad: "chessie: "While correlation does not equal causation, this is a significant reduction. Will be interesting to consider possible variables as well as see what happens in the next couple years ... "
I have a theory. People are now more aware that they can be fined, or even jailed, for not following the food storage rules. With that in mind, campers are now less likely to report a bear-in-camp problem for fear that an over zealous ranger may form the opinion that the bear problem was a result of them not following the rules. I know that's how I feel. Should I ever have a bear-in-camp visit I'm probably not going to go tell a ranger about it. "
It must stink to go through life thinking people are always out to get you!
I'll wager a very large sum that no one ever ends up in jail over a bear hang (or lack thereof) without extreme extenuating circumstances. The USFS basically said as much. They are approaching the new rule as "education first".
I have interacted with numerous USFS Rangers and both state and federal game wardens over many years. I have always been treated respectfully and cordially, even on two occasions years ago when a game warden could have technically written me a ticket. I would never hesitate to approach a ranger or warden to discuss a significant backcountry event. All in all, a great group of public servants in my opinion."
It’s actually a well thought out theory…it’s okay to disagree with it. I personally didn’t take it as anyone was out to get them. The initial publication on the rules were very harsh and highlighted the maximum sentence. They walked it back quite a bit, but not everyone is following this all the time.
There are a lot of areas where you cannot hang a pack properly due to I the recent fires. If you did your best and had a bear altercation when you weren’t following the rules inadvertently…while I agree the FS would likely not do anything, why would everyone have that assumption? Not everyone has ever had interactions with staff. Heck there are people who still think they will get a fine if they happen to be portaging with another group and technically break the 9 person rule(they never will), why would people think the FS would let them off for inadvertently violating the food storage order then?
There is room for both of you to be right.
T"
My comment about people being out to get you was purely in jest... If anyone found that offensive or overly harsh, apologies for my snarkiness.
I just wanted to point out that USFS rangers are a key part of making the outdoors experience safe and enjoyable for all who venture into the wilderness. We would all be better served to view them as a valuable resource and the folks helping to protect our beloved wild spaces. It should not be viewed as an adversarial relationship.
The best place for any of us to address concerns about regulations and regulation enforcement is directly with the USFS station and rangers that enforce those regulation. These can be some great and thought provoking conversations...
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