Just saw this in an informative Paddle and Portage story.

"Two of the most accessible locations for visitors to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness to pick up their permits won’t be an option as the 2025 paddling season arrives."

Here's the link to the complete write up.

Paddle & Portage article

It is very sad in my opinion, always like going into the ranger stations and visiting. It seemed much more official and important in getting a permit.
Also, I am sure they went over the rules much better than outfitters, with some being very good, and some not caring.
I guess being a old geezer and liking tradition, I don't care for the change. It seems somehow so much more artificial.
So do outfitters get paid for this service, it does bring people to their location.

Pinetree: "So do outfitters get paid for this service, it does bring people to their location."

Pinetree, the article says the outfitters get a whopping $2 to process a permit. While they will be getting walk-in potential shoppers, there's is a lot of concern that the small business outfitters will be pretty overwhelmed in their abilities to service the permit holders as well as try to operate their business.

Just got that email from the Forest Service stating I need to change permit station. Just making it easy. Thanks Feds

OneMatch: "

Pinetree: "So do outfitters get paid for this service, it does bring people to their location."

Pinetree, the article says the outfitters get a whopping $2 to process a permit. While they will be getting walk-in potential shoppers, there's is a lot of concern that the small business outfitters will be pretty overwhelmed in their abilities to service the permit holders as well as try to operate their business."

I think more people will not follow the do's and don'ts once getting into the BWCA. Less contact with anything you drift away from what should be going on. Contacts at the issuing station you're more likely to go back and express your concerns or violations you seen.
Too much disconnection and each and every outfitter will handle it different. Many it will be like a check -out at the local grocery store. Next>

IMHO, this is the USFS deciding not to do one of their jobs, and just pawning it off on somebody else. It's kind of nasty, actually.

I don't think the outfitters can issue the little card that exempts one from the video and questions in any subsequent BWCA trips taken in a season after the first one. I've always appreciated that.

Mike

Also this will mean less Rangers in the field due to the down sizing.

MikeinMpls: "IMHO, this is the USFS deciding not to do one of their jobs, and just pawning it off on somebody else. It's kind of nasty, actually.


I don't think the outfitters can issue the little card that exempts one from the video and questions in any subsequent BWCA trips taken in a season after the first one. I've always appreciated that.


Mike"

This is the USFS trying to do their job after being gutted by the Trump administration.

It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this.

I'd blame the exact who but I'd get banned and it's not the Forest Service.

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?

Mike

MikeinMpls: "

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?


Mike"

Just higher up than feds/usfs.

MikeinMpls: "

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?


Mike"

You're kidding, right? There are no workers to issue permits; they have been terminated by DOGE cuts.

Here a free gift link the Minnesota Star Tribune's Story about it: Some BWCAW paddlers will need to pivot on where they pick up permits this season

Frenchy19: "

MikeinMpls: "

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?



Mike"

You're kidding, right? There are no workers to issue permits; they have been terminated by DOGE cuts. "

OK. I just made a silly assumption that the Feds, USFS, DOGE, Trump all fall under the same umbrella. Silly me

My last post on this topic. I see an Orangeman Bad thread coming, with no hope of consensus on any level, as usual.

You can all have the last word

Mike

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

so true

Updated ranger office hours are online at fs.usda.gov/r09/superior/offices. The Tofte office is the only one of five, including the headquarters in Duluth, that will be open on weekends from May through September.

The staffing deficit and reduced office hours at ranger stations isn’t new. The Forest Service, which manages the 3 million-acre Superior National Forest and the BWCAW, last year put a hiring freeze in place for this summer. The Tofte and Gunflint office hours were reduced last August because of a lack of workers.

Workforce cuts this winter through the Trump administration also have hampered the agency. One employee who requested anonymity after probationary workers were fired and others felt compelled to retire early said that the SNF staff was “in crisis mode” and already was down 100 workers to 250.

This coming off the heels of the DOGE cuts. Kind of hard not to place the blame on that.

MikeinMpls: "

Frenchy19: "

MikeinMpls: "

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?



Mike"

You're kidding, right? There are no workers to issue permits; they have been terminated by DOGE cuts. "

OK. I just made a silly assumption that the Feds, USFS, DOGE, Trump all fall under the same umbrella. Silly me


My last post on this topic. I see an Orangeman Bad thread coming, with no hope of consensus on any level, as usual.


You can all have the last word

Mike"

Well your post sounded to me like kind of a "government bad" narrative, I was just pushing back on that a little, sorry if I misread it, no offense.

brulu: "

MikeinMpls: "

Frenchy19: "

MikeinMpls: "

brulu: "It's pretty imprecise to blame the "Feds" or "the USFS" for this."

Ok....where would you lay the blame?




Mike"

You're kidding, right? There are no workers to issue permits; they have been terminated by DOGE cuts. "

OK. I just made a silly assumption that the Feds, USFS, DOGE, Trump all fall under the same umbrella. Silly me



My last post on this topic. I see an Orangeman Bad thread coming, with no hope of consensus on any level, as usual.



You can all have the last word


Mike"

Well your post sounded to me like kind of a "government bad" narrative, I was just pushing back on that a little, sorry if I misread it, no offense.


"

It's cool. No problem. I should have realized that this topic is too hot for my comfort.

MT

USFS will be fine and you will be fine.

Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway.

No. This is a direct result of a DOGE.

arachne: "No. This is a direct result of a DOGE."

No the USFS will be fine or No you will be fine?

sgthulka: "USFS will be fine and you will be fine.


Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway."

Exactly. You'll all be fine. The outfitters will make a little more $$, maybe a lot more if their T shirts are $25 each, lol!

Pinetree: "It is very sad in my opinion, always like going into the ranger stations and visiting. It seemed much more official and important in getting a permit.
Also, I am sure they went over the rules much better than outfitters, with some being very good, and some not caring.
I guess being a old geezer and liking tradition, I don't care for the change. It seems somehow so much more artificial.
So do outfitters get paid for this service, it does bring people to their location."

I've never picked up a permit at an outfitter. Is it poor form to grab your permit and run? Does anyone buy a tshirt or two, just to compensate the outfitter a bit?

With everything that is going on with the government aside, I feel that if they are going to make this change, they should at least allow you to pick up your PMA permit at an outfitter as well.
This could be a pain for anybody visiting the Sundial PMA, which is one of the more popular ones.

dschult2: "With everything that is going on with the government aside, I feel that if they are going to make this change, they should at least allow you to pick up your PMA permit at an outfitter as well.
This could be a pain for anybody visiting the Sundial PMA, which is one of the more popular ones."

That’s a super good point. I planned on making PMA visits a regular thing this summer. Who will be issuing PMA permits now?

sgthulka: "USFS will be fine and you will be fine.


Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway."

I care

I’m like 50-50 Between Ranger station issued permit and outfitter issued permit. I’ve been to the Tofte Ranger station, the Duluth Ranger station, And the Ely Ranger station.

It was initially fun to chat with the Rangers, but lately I just get some temporary summer helper that doesn’t seem to have time to help us with questions anyway. So I prefer the outfitters. My group does choose to support the outfitter, we don’t usually need any major gear, but we typically will spend some money in there. We usually bring our own canoes, but once in a while, we rent a canoe, especially if we have A couple of new people with us.

I don’t think any of the outfitters actually Charged us the two dollar fee. Apparently it’s optional. I think they should get a little something for the service and people using their parking lot and bathrooms.

Pinetree: "

sgthulka: "USFS will be fine and you will be fine.



Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway."

I care"

As do I. And if USFS employees are saying they are in "crisis mode", that is far from being "fine".

Pinetree: "

sgthulka: "USFS will be fine and you will be fine.



Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway."

I care"

As do I

Good lord world.
I pray for you.

On the topic of what to do - I have many times picked up a permit at Sawtooth Outfitters on MN 61 in Tofte near the Sawbill Trail. Outfitters generally have longer hours.

I've always picked mine up at Duluth Pack. We're going to give Frost River a chance this year. Last year we forgot a filter and tried to pick on up at Duluth Pack while getting the permit, but the choices they had in stock were terrible. We ended up going to Frost River and grabbed one they had there. Might as well stop at a place that has actual camping gear instead of just clothing lines.

A1t2o: "I've always picked mine up at Duluth Pack. We're going to give Frost River a chance this year. Last year we forgot a filter and tried to pick on up at Duluth Pack while getting the permit, but the choices they had in stock were terrible. We ended up going to Frost River and grabbed one they had there. Might as well stop at a place that has actual camping gear instead of just clothing lines."

I'm getting my permit at Frost River in May.

OneMatch: "

Pinetree: "

sgthulka: "USFS will be fine and you will be fine.



Ice out in the next week - enjoy the summer and stop complaining. Does not help and nobody cares anyway."

I care"

As do I. And if USFS employees are saying they are in "crisis mode", that is far from being "fine"."

Spot on.

Over the last 20+ years I've had much better experiences getting my permits from outfitters. Shoutout to Tuscarora and Spirit of the Wilderness for their excellent customer service. I can't remember the last time I stepped foot in a USFS office to get my permit, maybe 2010?

scottiebaldwin: "

dschult2: "With everything that is going on with the government aside, I feel that if they are going to make this change, they should at least allow you to pick up your PMA permit at an outfitter as well.
This could be a pain for anybody visiting the Sundial PMA, which is one of the more popular ones."

That’s a super good point. I planned on making PMA visits a regular thing this summer. Who will be issuing PMA permits now?"

According to an email I received from the FS today, all offices will issue PMA permits or you may contact them to send it to you by email.

MikeinMpls: "IMHO, this is the USFS deciding not to do one of their jobs, and just pawning it off on somebody else. It's kind of nasty, actually. "

Mike"

Mike, I'm guessing it has more to do with the reduction in staff that the USFS was hit with than their reluctance to do their jobs.

It's kind of a good deal for outfitters. Sure they only get 2 bucks to do the permit, but it gets people in their doors. I modified my permit today and it's going to an Ely outfitter. I also booked bunks for two at that outfitter and will be getting my bait from them also. I'll probably hit that outfitter for showers on the way out.

Just spoke to them in the LaCroix office in Cook. Nobody to fill spots of retired people was the main reason given for the other two offices not issuing permits. For the LaCroix office it's business as usual.