Two friends and I are planning our first trip to the BW this year, and we are planning on using three external frame backpacks. We want to make a bracket on the top of two of the backpacks to hold the canoe on one and the kayak on the other for portaging. like this-
We don't have any external frame packs though, so I'm doing some research trying to find some we like. Last weekend we went to the local Cabelas to look at their selection (three different packs) and all of them were nice but I was definitely unimpressed with the quality of the packs. I wouldn't trust any one of those packs to make it down to the end of the driveway loaded full of gear, let alone a 7-day canoe trip in the BW. So I guess what I'm looking for in a external frame pack is:

-has a freighter shelf for carrying other things other than the pack
-is well built and durable and should last me a few years
-is pretty big, we won't exactly be minimalist on this trip
-the frame needs to be strong enough to support the weight of our old and heavy 17' aluminum canoe
-and once again, may last me at least a couple of years

I'm not at all against buying a used pack off of eBay or craigslist or whatever, after all, old stuff is generally built much better than new stuff. So please let me know what you guys think is a good pack, budget would be around $300 per pack, but obviously cheaper would be nice, but if we have to spend more to get a good strong and durable pack, we will.

I'm going to answer this respectfully - really I am - but good luck fella. You want to spend up to $300 on external frame backpacks which aren't designed for canoe camping in the first place and then jerry-rig some contraption on top so you can carry an aluminum canoe?

Either I just bit on an April Fool's joke or you need to do some serious re-thinking of what you want to do and how you're going to do it.

although i have never been to the BWCA, I don't really see why this wont work. of course we are going on a "dry run" trip down the river and camping out in the woods at my grandpa's farm right off the river to see how our gear works and our planing, so I guess we will see.

Here is what you are looking for but it looks like they are looking for a new manufacturer. There is a number at the bottom of the web site, may be you can call them to get an answer when they will be back on line. Knupac

tony

There is also a very good promo video, on the link above, of what you are looking for. Maybe you could copy the design and fabricate something that will work. Good luck

tony

i think if i had $900, i wouldn't buy three external frame packs. i would rent a lighter canoe. you can rent a kevlar canoe (40 lbs.) for $40/night or a royalex canoe (60 lbs.) for $30/night at any number of outfitters near the bwca. that would leave $620.

if i had $620, i would buy a cooke custom sewing hybrid guide pack for $210. i would buy a bunch of waterproof stuff sacks -- a blend of small, medium, and large -- that would hold the clothes and sleeping bags for all three of us. that would probably run $78. that would leave $332.

if i had $332 i would buy a 60L barrel and harness to carry a week's food and save me from having to haul a pack up into a tree. that would leave $165.

if i had $165 -- but was willing to spend more to get a strong and dependable pack -- i would go to cabela's catalog and buy a extreme alaskan outfitter pack for $200. that would carry tents, cook gear, fishing gear, and the like. that would put me $35 over budget.

if i was $35 over budget, i would also think about -- as an alternative to a large external frame pack -- a large internal frame pack as my "gear pack." i've always been served well by jansport internal frame packs. here's a great deal on the jansport big bear that would bring the budget back to $110.

then, i would have some great gear for a week-long canoe trek and many canoe treks in the future. i might even reconsider renting the canoe, and take the aluminum instead with a good padded portaging yoke installed.

that's what i would do if i had $900.

but, if you really want framepacks, the alaskan outfitter packs are supposed to be pretty tough, though i haven't used one myself. if you plan to do a lot of trail hiking after this trip, having three of those might be worthwhile. but external frame packs don't cooperate with canoes well. they often don't sit right. and most people find big open packs -- with smaller stuff sacks -- easy to use AND (more importantly) easier to keep gear dry. and keeping food in a barrel has made my trips 10 times better.

everybody has their own approach to canoe trekking. thanks for letting me play with your budget to share some of my approach. it is a generous budget, in my opinion, and it can allow you to do quite a bit for outfitting yourself.

good luck making your decisions!

So you're going to spend about $900.00 on packs to carry a $200.00 canoe. You could almost buy a used kevlar canoe from an outfitter for that.

Tyler I could not have said it better than oldgentleman. Save your money and get a used Kevlar from any of the outfitters. See their web pages. Also come up to Minneapolis to the Midwest mountaineering store when they have their spring expo. They have two different used canoe auctions going on at the same time. The kevlar canoes weight only about 38-42 lbs.

quote deerhuntertyler: "although i have never been to the BWCA..."

There are all sorts of ways to take a canoe trip and complete the trip successfully. You don't need all the most expensive, state-of-the-art gear. You simply need the willingness to want to go and enjoy yourself.

With that said, your quote above tells me that you're interested in going (for the first time) and are posting here to get as much advice as possible. You have already gotten a lot.

By coincidence, there was just a lengthy thread on packs involving some people who do backpacking, as well as canoe tripping, and weren't excited about having to buy two different packs. You can find it easily by doing a search. The concensus was that canoe packs are best, but if backpacking packs are all you have, use them! But if there are many canoe trips in your future, you'll eventually want to buy a canoe pack or two.

Most importantly, I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel. The gadgets you're suggesting for carrying your aluminum canoe are just that - gadgets. Leave 'em on the store shelf for the weekend paddler (and he'll probably only use them once.)

Traveling through canoe country is done most efficiently when you use the right methods, not necessarily the right gear. The best example is the aforementioned canoe packs vs. backpacking packs discussion. Canoe packs work best when it comes to carrying a canoe and pack at the same time, but sometimes a backpacking pack will work. Put portage pads on your canoe and carry it on your shoulders. If your pack fits under the canoe while you're carrying it, great. If not, you double-portage. Simple as that.

Keep asking questions and be accepting of good advice. Nothing tops having "real trip experience", but there are a lot of seasoned veterans on this board. You'll read some good suggestions.

I think you can save a lot of money by hitting ebay, searching on external frame backpack or external frame pack and look for ones with diagonal bracing near the top as you don't want those tubes flexing with the weight of the canoe on top. Put all your stuff in a heavy duty dry bag (which will stay plenty dry if closed properly) and just strap them to the frames. No shelf necessary.

Lots of people will tell you this isn't a good idea but to each their own and best if they have actually tripped using different techniques. I've done 1 trip the old-fashioned way and 5 more with a knu-pac and will never go back. Even if I was going to double portage I would use a frame. It's just that much more comfortable for me.

Tyler- I'd agree with others who have suggested alternatives. For $500 you could rent a 3-man kevlar canoe and portage packs for a week that are designed for this. The canoe will be lighter (I think they weigh about 50 lbs for a 3-man), faster, and easier to paddle and portage. The rental will include the yoke and portage pads, paddles, and life jackets. Your problems are solved, your trip is enhanced. And you'll still have $400.

I must have gotten lucky. I bought a Jansport Carson external frame pack at Dunhams sports and there was no price tag on it so I got it for $79.95. I do like this pack alot. Lots of options to strap on food pack and tent. Also they had an upgrade with their straps and I called in and they send them out to me for no charge. This has held up very good.

Apart from all the other good advice here - another reason to use a canoe style pack is that by using a plastic liner you can actually completely and 100% waterproof the thing.

Packs up there spend a LOT of time in the water.... bilge water, dropped unloading at portages, in the rain, capsized in the lake and so forth. External frame backpacks are far more difficult to waterproof.

Been there done that. The probably best external frames ever made are the Kelty 50th Anniversary pack or the Dana Design/K2 Longbed. Here is a link to one for sale.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/1665831645.html

I have done the exact trip you are describing. Here is what I have found works better. Save the $900 or so that you have budgeted for packs and rent a MN III (or buy a used one) or Souris River 3 Person. Get 2 large internal frame packs or two large boundary waters type backpacks. Decide what you absolutely have to bring and pack accordingly.
Three people in a true three person boat can travel very quickly. Portages are a snap and the load distribution is great. You can even bring a smaller backpack that does not have a top compartment that the person carrying the canoe can carry. When I brought a K2 Longbed two summers ago, the backpack sat at about a 20 degree angle the whole time as it would not fit inside the canoe and had to rest on a thwart. It took several scratches on rocks and just was not optimal. I love the pack but it is better suited to other kinds of trips.

Seriously, forget about the external frame backpack.

It's more a pain in the rear than you would ever imagine.

Portage/Duluth style packs have been the time tested method of the BW ever since the Voyageurs used it as part of the fur trade route.

If I was you on your first trip to the BW is to just get a complete outfitting package through one of the outfitters, you'll be much happier in the end and if you decide to become a BW regular you'll know what you need.

thanks for posting the link for the knupac, it was extremely helpful. I'm sorry for angering some members, but if your so against external frame packs for canoe trips, you dint even need to reed this thread, so you brought it on yourself. I really wish a yoke worked for me, but i have had several bulged disks in the past, and my back always ends up whimping out before too long of trying to carry a canoe for any distance with traditional yokes. sorry but i really don't want to rent a canoe or go with a guide, sure, its cheaper in the short run, but you have nothing for it after its over, at least with the packs i can reuse them trip-to trip. If anyone knows where i could get one of those canoe packs, it would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Tyler

They are just giving you some advice and good advice at that. Maybe ditching the old and heavy canoe might be a little easier on you, or maybe just have the other guys carry the canoe for you and you carry the gear. Everyone on here is giving their two cents to help each other out, I dont think you angered anyone.

eventually i plan on buying a new canoe, but its just not in the works for this year. And i would like to do some solo trips in the near future so i would like to make this work, or something work for me. I realize that people have different ways of doing things, and i don't mind any of the posts at all besides the first replay i got, but other than that i found them all helpful

quote deerhuntertyler: "...i don't mind any of the posts at all besides the first replay i got, but other than that i found them all helpful"

Since I was the one who replied first (but also had another post in the thread), it looks like I'm batting .500. In spite of the fact I clearly stated I was trying to be respectful, apparently you didn't see it that way. I apologize for that because I try hard not to be one of "those" type of posters.

I really did think you might have been joking based on the contraption in the photo. Since you're not, by all means, have at it. I wouldn't do it that way, but it's a free country. My post further down the thread basically said that.

Only way to get an actual knu-pac these days is used on ebay or craigslist... Nothing wrong with making one yourself, though. Everyone has experience and ideas and you just have to sort through and take what works for you.

used Dana Design pack

Used Kelty and Camptrails frame packs [larger welded tubes] would also be a good starting point for your project, most of these packs have an adjustable top bar that slides into the main vertical frame tubes.

butthead

jackfish, i apologize, perhaps i was a bit harsh. I dint realize your second post was from the same person, and that post was very respectable. I guess I've just had some bad experiences with a member on another forum and I'm not really sold on all this computer crap.

quote deerhuntertyler: "...and I'm not really sold on all this computer crap."

Don't worry about this computer stuff. Computers (and the internet) are probably just a fad that will be gone in year or two anyway. LOL

Seriously, no offense taken, Tyler. Based on your profile, you're just a little younger than the youngest of my four kids. I've heard worse. :-)

Good luck with your trip planning.

Dont know if they will allow you to customize the way you want, but look on steepandcheap.com for the alps mountaineering packs around 5000 cubic inches - only about 75 each and they are amazingly good quality, not as fancy as an Arcyteryx but I bet it would last just as long and as comfortable.