We normally cache our food in the BW and are thinking of doing the same in Wabakimi. I've read that there are not good trees for hanging and that the bears are more wary than the BW.

What have you done or plan on doing?

wabakimi is mostly black spruce and jack pine. few trees large enough to hang a pack from. i have never had any bear concerns in wabakimi, though they are certainly present.

How did you protect your food? Barrels?

bear barrels, once to get used to these things you won't want to be without them, i even use them backpacking.

We have also gone the cahce route in the southern parks, but jwartman is not the only one to recommend the barrels up north. I, for one, am taking that advice. We will be renting our bear barrels from the outfitter.

actual bear barrels, or the commonly used 30 and 60L blue barrels?

i don't remember seeing any bear vault type gear in wildwater's shed, you sure don't need them.

Spoke with Mattice Lake outfitters who said they occasionally see people bring in a barrel. However since bears are not an issue and do not yet equate man with food, it doesn't seem that a barrel is necessary.

I think we'll cache our food.

they're talking about blue barrels.

i doubt they've ever seen a bear vault type container. i've never heard of anyone using them up there.

the use of barrels is more common in Canada than in the US. i have a pair of 60L barrels with headstrong harnesses myself, and we used one on our 21 day trip.

forget the cache too.

So bear vault is the way to go?! What size and brand would you suggest for a 8-10 day trip? I also noticed you packed your food in zip-locks (I think) and labeled them. How did you organize your food?

no, just the opposite. a bear vault is not the way to go.

blue barrels are NOT bear barrels. blue barrels take the place of a portage pack, are 100% waterproof, provide floatation in the boat, and are easy to carry with a decent harness. usually employed as a food pack, but are used to carry regular gear also.

a written menu is prepared for each trip and laminated. the food is vacuum bagged (food saver) and labeled for each meal on every day. a D5 label would mean dinner on day 5. each sealed bag generally contains everything for that meal. coffee and most other odds and ends are also vacuum bagged. we bring a whole bunch of food, and we eat a whole bunch of food. i take no chances with our food supply. our food was in the water twice on that trip up on the Albany, but we didn't lose any.

we come out with little or no food, and in 2008 had to bum some food when our float plane was delayed due to bad weather.

i should have been clearer. two of these. bear vault bears aren't a concern up here. it is a nice way to store food, etc and be assured that things will stay dry.

quote jdrocks: "no, just the opposite. a bear vault is not the way to go.


blue barrels are NOT bear barrels. blue barrels take the place of a portage pack, are 100% waterproof, provide floatation in the boat, and are easy to carry with a decent harness. usually employed as a food pack, but are used to carry regular gear also.


a written menu is prepared for each trip and laminated. the food is vacuum bagged (food saver) and labeled for each meal on every day. a D5 label would mean dinner on day 5. each sealed bag generally contains everything for that meal. coffee and most other odds and ends are also vacuum bagged. we bring a whole bunch of food, and we eat a whole bunch of food. i take no chances with our food supply. our food was in the water twice on that trip up on the Albany, but we didn't lose any.


we come out with little or no food, and in 2008 had to bum some food when our float plane was delayed due to bad weather."

Gotcha. I initially thought about bringing blue barrel w/harness. Will go that route then. Thanks for the clarification!

We use a food sealer for our BW trips and I really like using those.

you see discussion about securing packs in the boat in other parts of the forum, and apparently most decide it's not necessary.

there is no debate on this subject if paddling the little north. you're in fast water every day, and if not fast, it's big. if through some circumstance you lose the boat and end up in the water, you can't take the slightest chance of losing the packs.

forget garbage bags, get the proper roll top wp liners. or barrels.

quote jdrocks: "actual bear barrels, or the commonly used 30 and 60L blue barrels?


i don't remember seeing any bear vault type gear in wildwater's shed, you sure don't need them."

I assumed we would have 30L bear barrels. But if you say they only have the blue barrels, then that is what I guess we'll get. So the barrels are more for travel safety/swamping issues than bear prevention? Is that what I am reading here?? Just trying to make sure I get it absoloutley clear. Thanks. JC

jd- Yep, we had been talking w/Rob Kesselring and he'd recommended strapping packs using d-rings secured to hull of the boat, so that's our plan.

We use 6mm poly liners for our packs (besides having our gear in ultra light waterproof sacks). Sounds like that should work.

Do you think a 30L barrel should be sufficient as a food pack for 10 days?

Appreciate details! Thanks for your help.

quote jcavenagh: "

quote jdrocks: "actual bear barrels, or the commonly used 30 and 60L blue barrels?



i don't remember seeing any bear vault type gear in wildwater's shed, you sure don't need them."

I assumed we would have 30L bear barrels. But if you say they only have the blue barrels, then that is what I guess we'll get. So the barrels are more for travel safety/swamping issues than bear prevention? Is that what I am reading here?? Just trying to make sure I get it absoloutley clear. Thanks. JC"

well, maybe bert and brenda are calling them "bear barrels" but they're not. the 30L and 60L blue barrels (found in some other colors too) have a waterproof lid that seals in food smells and makes it less attractive to a bear, but if a bear wants in, it can rip it apart. they're just another convenient way to carry food/gear, and happens to provide excellent flotation when strapped in. i've seen canadian groups that used nothing but 60L barrels, no conventional packs.

the Wabakimi Project switched food packs over to 60L barrels and Ostrom harnesses a few years ago, although still using conventional portage packs for gear.

so if you use barrel(s), about 95% are blue, and you take the train in or out, what happens when all the gear gets tossed into the baggage
car? use flagging tape in an unusual color to identify all your gear, including boat. black marker to identify where you disembark. if your gear does not get off that train with you, there's zero chance of seeing it again.

just because no one gets on with you, there can still be a load of canoe gear already in the baggage car, and that gear could look just like yours.

quote paddlefamily: "jd- Yep, we had been talking w/Rob Kesselring and he'd recommended strapping packs using d-rings secured to hull of the boat, so that's our plan.


We use 6mm poly liners for our packs (besides having our gear in ultra light waterproof sacks). Sounds like that should work.


Do you think a 30L barrel should be sufficient as a food pack for 10 days?


Appreciate details! Thanks for your help. "

rob knows. just make sure the adhesive for the D ring anchor is compatible with your hull material.

i prefer the good roll top liners. i can't recall having gear in the water when i did a lot of paddling in the BW/Quetico, but i have had gear overboard on a number of occasions farther north since then. different conditions, different gear.

use a 60L barrel. you have a target weight of 35-40# of food to eat decently, plus your kitchen and related. you should plan on starting the day with at least two liters of water per man to avoid dehydration. we carried three liters/man and still ran out. those containers need to go somewhere too. i hate to portage water, but you can't make time if you stop to filter water all day.

Thanks for the great advice! Having never done a trip like that on the train, it never would have occurred to me. We'll make sure that our gear and canoes are clearly marked. I had impressions of just riding with the gear. We will be getting on at Shultz's Trail and off at Armstrong. I thought that was only about 1/2 hour or so. Do they let you ride with the gear??

quote jcavenagh:We will be getting on at Shultz's Trail and off at Armstrong. I thought that was only about 1/2 hour or so. Do they let you ride with the gear??"

no, you ride in a passenger car, although they have never been too strict if you're up and wandering around. i always enjoy talking with the conductors/baggage handlers, they seem to always have an interesting story or two.

there have been stories of groups not getting all their gear off the train, especially with multiple groups on board when the train was westbound on the old schedule. hell of a way to start a trip.

quote jcavenagh: "Thanks for the great advice! Having never done a trip like that on the train, it never would have occurred to me. We'll make sure that our gear and canoes are clearly marked. I had impressions of just riding with the gear. We will be getting on at Shultz's Trail and off at Armstrong. I thought that was only about 1/2 hour or so. Do they let you ride with the gear??"

jc- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when I saw picts of train cars, there were clearly ones for passengers and others just for gear/misc. Gear car looked like the inside of airplane baggage.

Gonna look around for some roll top liners. We have small ones, but nothing large enough to line the pack. Wondering if we should just skip our packs and do blue barrels.

Yes. I saw the photos online as well. I just thought since it is such a short trip, we could just sack out in the gear carrier. Either way, I know a good tip when I see one...so pink or lime green tape it is.

quote jdrocks: "

quote jcavenagh:We will be getting on at Shultz's Trail and off at Armstrong. I thought that was only about 1/2 hour or so. Do they let you ride with the gear??"

there have been stories of groups not getting all their gear off the train, especially with multiple groups on board when the train was westbound on the old schedule. hell of a way to start a trip."

Just make sure you grab the *best* gear! :)

As for keeping clothes/bags/tents dry, we have always packed our clothes in ziplocks first, then packed them in the canoe packs. The sleeping bags go in trash bags, then stuffed into their stuff sacks. I have a few drybags that we will use for clothes and sleeping bags. Again, I am only experienced in flat water, so swamping hasn't been an issue before. Our route, Little Caribou around thru Smoothrock and down to Shawnabis, is mostly flat water, but we do have the Caribou River in there too. Doing some C1 or mild C2 rapids sounds like fun, but I don't think I could do C3.

Picked up a couple of granite gear roll top liners for our packs. That gear is gonna stay dry, by-golly.

I've got 2 of those GG liners, but they've not been put to the real test. Used them all of last year and maybe a bit before that too - but no pouring rain or capsizing.

The 6mil liners do work through pouring rain lasting for hours... that I do know. I got the GG liners 'cause I was tired of the plastic stuff which is so hard to manage some times. BUT the plastic for sure works. I'd try the GG ones out in the shower or local lake before trusting it on a trip like you're planning.

Cliff J showed how he uses a set of TWO plastic liners - one always inside for "abrasion" and one outside for "waterproofness". I've never been that cautious before, but would consider it.

I've also got a GG Immersion pack and Cabela's Boundary pack, which are supposed to be waterproof, but I haven't tested them yet either in a rainstorm or capsizing. I guess all around, I've just been too lucky.

BW- Yeah, we've used the 6mil in pouring rain, with both good and poor results. One year, we had one leak, which caused a number things to get wet. That was also before we put most everything in waterproof stuff/compression sacks.

Currently we buy a few 6 mil liners every year.

Hoping the GG liners will resolve the need to buy liners and be a bit more durable. Good idea to try them and dump the packs in the water before hand. I'm sure we'll do it.

Interesting about the two plastic liner idea. I might try adding one, then nestling the GG liner inside of it (I'd rather see the plastic wrecked).

We will likely rent/buy one blue barrel, but I'd like to save some $$ and modify what we have.