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Papa09
distinguished member (155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/13/2013 02:55PM
I'm looking at purchasing a new sleeping bag. I usually do my tripping early or late season (May or sept). I'm currently looking at a Western Mountaineering Sycamore MF. I like the semi rectangle bottom, I have this style currently. Does anyone have any comments on this bag or suggestions on other similar bags.

Just spent the last 8 days of May in the BW. It was fairly cold to say the least. I currently bring a Gander Mountain brand 30 degree synthetic fill. I bring a fleece liner on the colder trips and basically want to eliminate bringing that warm of a liner, or bringing a liner at all. I do like this bag but I would only like to use it in the warmer months.
 
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billconner
distinguished member(6956)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/13/2013 04:38PM
I bought a Marmot Plasma 30 for upcoming Philmont trip but have used it several times and love it. I'm sure it will become my first choice for Q trips. And in anything except below 25 degree weather, I'll probably carry my Exped Symnat UL M rather than the DLX9. I'm amazed at how well I slept in this combination and glad to shed pounds and volume.
 
06/13/2013 05:09PM
I cannot comment on that specific WM bag, but I did have a Badger and it was awesome-except I cannot stand mummy bags. Thought it was wide enough in the shoulders when I tested it, but after a couple of trips, it was too constricting.

I next purchased a quilt from EnLIGHTened, and I will never go back to a bag. It's a RevelationX 20 degree bag with 850 down loft (clocks in at 24.75 ounces), and shipped to my house was around $235. Couple this with an Exped down mat and you will not be cold.

EnLIGHTened Equipment
 
tonyyarusso
distinguished member(1332)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/13/2013 05:37PM
I use a Marmot Pinnacle for those months (+15 rating, 800FP down), along with a silk liner (more to keep the bag clean than warmth). I would likely often be cold in a +30 rated bag in those seasons, although at those times I'm often camping away from water where the temperature drops at night are more significant than canoe camping. It looks like the semi-rectangular Western Mountaineering bag with a +15 rating is the Ponderosa. The closest Marmot equivalent to the Sycamore would be the Hydrogen.

For some comparison:

Bag Rating FP Weight Price Foot Hip Shoulder
Hydrogen +30 850 25oz $350 40" 58" 62"
Pinnacle +15 800 40oz $360 43" 57" 63"
Sycamore +30 850? 32oz $415 46" 59" 62"
Ponderosa +15 850 41oz $525 48" 64" 67"

The Pinnacle is a regular mummy bag, although as you can see the measurement differences are relatively small (more pronounced with the Hydrogen). Those size differences are also noticeable in the weight numbers. It's also about $165 cheaper than the Ponderosa. I've never had a WM bag myself, but those who do have them like them - the downside is just cost.

Some temperature statistics to consider (at Ely):

Date AvgLow AvgHi MinLow MaxHi
1 May 36 57 19 86
15 May 40 62 25 88
31 May 45 66 29 89
1 Sep 52 71 30 92
15 Sep 46 65 27 90
30 Sep 40 59 24 82
 
joefbtg28
member (48)member
 
06/14/2013 10:35AM
Everything I hear about Western Mountaineering is great. Biggest things for me are the down they use, and then secondly the fabric material. You might also want to check out Go-Lite for a similar quality\pricepoint:
Golite bags\quilts

I personally went with a Over\under quilt setup with 900 fill Hungarian Goose down. The higher the fill number, the lighter it will be and the warmer it will keep you.
HG burrow 20

HG Phoenix 20
 
06/14/2013 10:50AM
Why are people posting Mummy bags when he clearly asked for similar (semi-rectangular) bags? Finding this kind of odd....... but maybe I’m missing something….It’s like someone asking for a Kevlar canoe recommendation and people posting Royalex and Aluminum.....



But to get on topic, you are looking at the "best", if you can try that one and its fits I don't think you are going to do any better from a weight and quality standpoint, might be some other makers (like feathered friends) that will make one as nice as a WM but I just don't think you will find a better one. If you are looking for something cheaper look at a Big Agnes Lost Ranger, if you are looking for something bigger look at the Big Agnes Summit Park or Nemo Stratoloft, both are about as comfortable as a sleeping bag will be but they won’t be nearly as light as the WM bag and you will need a good insulated pad, also they both only come in long size, so if you are short and don't need the length that's extra weight you would have to carry and volume you would have to heat (lowering the temp rating a bit). There is also some Sea to Summit Semi-rec down bags that are nice but fit a little on the smaller side, fit is likely similar to the WM you are looking at, TK II would be the one you want to look at (TK I is a warmer weather bag), I had one of those at the house and they seemed nice, just a little less room than I was looking for.All the other bags I mentioned I have owned/own, and I have tried on a few WM for fit.

I would also look at quilts like Mark posted, lots of bang for the buck there, super light, lots of room, if you don't move around allot in your sleep they may be a great fit! I know I move a bit and would find myself uncovered in a hurry, probably near hypothermic lol

Also I should stress DONT GO BY THE NUMBERS!!!! The stated girth numbers are almost worthless for comparing between two brands, they MAY get you in the right range but I've tried bags that were speced to be much bigger only to find them just as tight or tighter than a bag from another maker that supposedly had 4-6" less girth.

In addition, when looking at weights be mindfull that they can and do shift around a bit, also some makers include the weight of a stuff sack in it, others don't, its a complete sh*t show, like all the specs on outdoor gear, its a non standardized bunch of crap (for the most part) The Sea To Summit rating is EN, which is as close to a standard as you will get, but just keep an eye out, if you see one that seems super light, super warm and super roomy it may very well be playing with some "fuzzy" numbers. I weigh every single piece of my gear on a high end scale, even stuff I buy and don't keep, stuff almost never weighs what you expect it to be.

When it comes to specs.......

 
joefbtg28
member (48)member
 
06/14/2013 10:55AM
quote joefbtg28: "I personally went with a Over\under quilt setup with 900 fill Hungarian Goose down. The higher the fill number, the lighter it will be and the warmer it will keep you."

I should probably mention underquilts will only work with hammocks. overquilts on the other hand can be used either way. Why carry the weight of insulation below you when it will be compressed and not insulate anyways? My top quilt is 24 ounces as well.
 
Papa09
distinguished member (155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/14/2013 09:03PM
Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it. Just a little more info....

I am looking for a semi rectangular bag. I'm 5'8" and weigh 175 lbs. I'm also a side sleeper and move around a lot in my sleep. I like the idea of the quilts but not sure if it would work for me.....thanks again!
 
06/16/2013 11:03PM
quote Ragged: "Why are people posting Mummy bags when he clearly asked for similar (semi-rectangular) bags? Finding this kind of odd....... but maybe I’m missing something….It’s like someone asking for a Kevlar canoe recommendation and people posting Royalex and Aluminum.....



But to get on topic, you are looking at the "best", if you can try that one and its fits I don't think you are going to do any better from a weight and quality standpoint, might be some other makers (like feathered friends) that will make one as nice as a WM but I just don't think you will find a better one. If you are looking for something cheaper look at a Big Agnes Lost Ranger, if you are looking for something bigger look at the Big Agnes Summit Park or Nemo Stratoloft, both are about as comfortable as a sleeping bag will be but they won’t be nearly as light as the WM bag and you will need a good insulated pad, also they both only come in long size, so if you are short and don't need the length that's extra weight you would have to carry and volume you would have to heat (lowering the temp rating a bit). There is also some Sea to Summit Semi-rec down bags that are nice but fit a little on the smaller side, fit is likely similar to the WM you are looking at, TK II would be the one you want to look at (TK I is a warmer weather bag), I had one of those at the house and they seemed nice, just a little less room than I was looking for.All the other bags I mentioned I have owned/own, and I have tried on a few WM for fit.


I would also look at quilts like Mark posted, lots of bang for the buck there, super light, lots of room, if you don't move around allot in your sleep they may be a great fit! I know I move a bit and would find myself uncovered in a hurry, probably near hypothermic lol


Also I should stress DONT GO BY THE NUMBERS!!!! The stated girth numbers are almost worthless for comparing between two brands, they MAY get you in the right range but I've tried bags that were speced to be much bigger only to find them just as tight or tighter than a bag from another maker that supposedly had 4-6" less girth.

In addition, when looking at weights be mindfull that they can and do shift around a bit, also some makers include the weight of a stuff sack in it, others don't, its a complete sh*t show, like all the specs on outdoor gear, its a non standardized bunch of crap (for the most part) The Sea To Summit rating is EN, which is as close to a standard as you will get, but just keep an eye out, if you see one that seems super light, super warm and super roomy it may very well be playing with some "fuzzy" numbers. I weigh every single piece of my gear on a high end scale, even stuff I buy and don't keep, stuff almost never weighs what you expect it to be.

When it comes to specs.......


"


+1 Everything Ragged said was 100% accurate.
 
06/17/2013 09:47AM
What sleeping pad are you using Papa?
 
Papa09
distinguished member (155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/17/2013 10:26PM
Exped 7 UL lw
 
Sierra1
distinguished member(1391)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/18/2013 07:08AM
I'm a warm sleeper and found that a Marmot Mavericks 30 semi-rectangular bag works well for me. It rolls up reasonably small, has good room and is comfortable. I used it the week before Memorial Day weekend in the BWCA and it worked very well with an Exped Synmat 7 LW. This was with temps down into the mid 20's. I just added a pair of sweatpants and a medium sweatshirt to stay toasty warm all night. the other nights were in the low to mid 30's and I was fine with my regular nightwear.
 
06/18/2013 01:24PM
quote Frenchy19: "I cannot comment on that specific WM bag, but I did have a Badger and it was awesome-except I cannot stand mummy bags. Thought it was wide enough in the shoulders when I tested it, but after a couple of trips, it was too constricting.


I next purchased a quilt from EnLIGHTened, and I will never go back to a bag. It's a RevelationX 20 degree bag with 850 down loft (clocks in at 24.75 ounces), and shipped to my house was around $235. Couple this with an Exped down mat and you will not be cold.


EnLIGHTened Equipment "


+1 or two...

I now own two rev x quilts and also will never go back to a bag. I also tend to toss and turn a lot and I haven't found that I wake up uncovered. I guess if you sleep with a blanket at home and find yourself waking up uncovered frequently then you might have an issue. I don't.
 
WhiteWolf
distinguished member(4024)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/20/2013 02:39AM
Big Agnes Mystic 15F .

I too trip in May (fishing opener) and in Sept/Oct. You will be hard pressed to find a more roomier bag ( I have the long) -- at the time I bought this bag,, it had largest volume on the market. Ads say not for side sleepers due to no insulation in the bottom,, but with an Exped Downmat 7 LW-- no issues for me even on nights in the low 20's. The Pertex Quantum fabric is great stuff.

For quilts--- it's tough to beat the Jacks r Better Mr Rogers -- recently went this route and I will only use a sleeping bag when the temps are too cool for the Mr Rogers. Adjustment for temps during the night is unmatched by any bag. You can always go with The Katahidin Quilt -- which is rated in the 10-15F range while the Mt Rogers is in the 25-30F. Both are HUGE-- easily sleep 2 smaller adults -- about the same size as a Twin comforter. -- note pics in links.

Also-- Jack R Better quilts are not tapered-- ie, less coverage-- as are many other quilts. This is huge if said quilt is used in a tent on the ground-- in a hammock is a different story. You get what you pay for.
** I don't work for Jack (no pun intended)--- but did tons of research on quilts. Jacks R Better!
 
06/20/2013 08:23AM
quote WhiteWolf: " Big Agnes Mystic 15F .


I too trip in May (fishing opener) and in Sept/Oct. You will be hard pressed to find a more roomier bag ( I have the long) -- at the time I bought this bag,, it had largest volume on the market. Ads say not for side sleepers due to no insulation in the bottom,, but with an Exped Downmat 7 LW-- no issues for me even on nights in the low 20's. The Pertex Quantum fabric is great stuff.


"


So you use your BA bag without putting the pad in the sleeve? I don't think I've heard of that before, how does it work? If you rolled over and the bag came with wouldn't it get cold pretty fast? The Mystic is an awesome bag, plenty of room, but I had the same issue with it as I did the Lost Ranger, it won't fit a 25" LW pad in the sleeve and I really like the sleeve setup. But I will have to say, as roomy as the Mystic and Lost Ranger are, they don't hold a Candle to the BA Summit Park or Nemo Stratoloft, those things are huge!
 
WhiteWolf
distinguished member(4024)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/20/2013 04:06PM
quote Ragged: "quote WhiteWolf: " Big Agnes Mystic 15F .



I too trip in May (fishing opener) and in Sept/Oct. You will be hard pressed to find a more roomier bag ( I have the long) -- at the time I bought this bag,, it had largest volume on the market. Ads say not for side sleepers due to no insulation in the bottom,, but with an Exped Downmat 7 LW-- no issues for me even on nights in the low 20's. The Pertex Quantum fabric is great stuff.



"



So you use your BA bag without putting the pad in the sleeve? I don't think I've heard of that before, how does it work? If you rolled over and the bag came with wouldn't it get cold pretty fast? The Mystic is an awesome bag, plenty of room, but I had the same issue with it as I did the Lost Ranger, it won't fit a 25" LW pad in the sleeve and I really like the sleeve setup. But I will have to say, as roomy as the Mystic and Lost Ranger are, they don't hold a Candle to the BA Summit Park or Nemo Stratoloft, those things are huge! "


If you roll over and the bag comes with you-- yes it does get chilly on the part of the body that has no insulation. For me,, the bag is big enough that I can roll around inside without moving the bag. Takes a little getting used to-- but the lack of insulation on the bottom was actually a selling point for me, even without a pad for it too slip into. As long as you have a good R value pad-- insulation in the bottom of bag doesn't do much anyway as it's squashed and loses most of it's loft anyhew. my .o2.
 
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