Having only done one previous solo, and a short one at that, yet many group trips, I am in the process of planning an extended stay in the BWCA this summer. However I am at a loss as to how long it takes a solo to travel from point 'a' to 'b' as compared to a tandem trek.

If my typical 'group' time to Kawishiwi ( ep 37) to first camp site on Malberg is about three hours give or take the weather, what would you "seasoned" solos suggest as a realistic estimate for one going the same distance?

Of course my plan is to go at my own pace, a prime reason for my adventure, but I would like to be cognizant of the time to travel difference for planning purposes.

Thank you

Peoples' travel times vary so greatly that I find it impossible to give or take advice on it. I double portage and I take my time. I average about 2 mph. I got to Mahlberg in two easy days. Even as a tandem, I doubt we'd come close to getting to Mahlberg in 3 hours. I wouldn't even want to try.

I've only done two solos, so I'm certainly no expert, but I found that when I soloed I did approximately 75% of what I did when I paddled tandem and single portaged. I think you could use that as a rough estimate, ..but as MacCamper said, everyone's time varies.

That depends on how fast my tandem partner is. Solo I am faster than tandem with most of my tripping partners. That said one of my tandem partners can make 2 trips across while I am making 1 so solo I am much slower than with him. To get an estimate compare your time across the portage with your partners. Who has everything organized while the other is still putting things in the canoe.

ive found that a 1.5 - 2 mph average travel speed is pretty accurate (double portaging).

quote kanoes: "ive found that a 1.5 - 2 mph average travel speed is pretty accurate (double portaging)."

Yep, I agree with that. Usually around 2 mph for me as well, and also double portaging most of the time.

Yup, that's about right. Less portaging and favorable winds (never happens!) might bump it up 1 MPH or so.

quote Minnesotian: "

quote kanoes: "ive found that a 1.5 - 2 mph average travel speed is pretty accurate (double portaging)."

Yep, I agree with that. Usually around 2 mph for me as well, and also double portaging most of the time. "

My speed varies a bit depending how well I prepare physically and whether I bring Bernice (my dog) or not. I was in my worst shape in a long time this past year and didn't have Bernice with. I could just barely keep up with Sunny and Boppa. My point, is being in good paddling shape will help a lot when paddling solo. The 2 mph figure is a good place to figure. Jan is a strong paddler and I'd guess he could do better, but pacing yourself is good too as you can wear down quick if your pouring it on from the get go. Sometimes I'm a bit slower when I bring Bernice because she takes so long bringing my packs across the portages. :)

I think the 1.5 to 2 mph and 75% of tandem are both good speed estimates. However, I generally travel farther solo than tandem/group. I leave earlier and select a campsite later. It takes longer to get a group on the water and you need to be fussier choosing a campsite with a group. Some of my favorite solo sites would have been horrible group sites.

quote Bannock: "I think the 1.5 to 2 mph and 75% of tandem are both good speed estimates. However, I generally travel farther solo than tandem/group. I leave earlier and select a campsite later. It takes longer to get a group on the water and you need to be fussier choosing a campsite with a group. Some of my favorite solo sites would have been horrible group sites.
"

Yep, couldn't agree more. Especially the sites that wouldn't normally be used with a group.

quote kanoes: "ive found that a 1.5 - 2 mph average travel speed is pretty accurate (double portaging)."

+1 Agree with that. I'm sure that some younger guys who are hell-bent on covering territory can do better.

Travel time does have multiple factors as mentioned. Going solo I can get up and on the water much earlier than with anyone I have gone with. While I may not travel as fast I have much more time to travel. I can enjoy the trip and still get there before I would have going with a group.

quote OBX2Kayak: "

quote kanoes: "ive found that a 1.5 - 2 mph average travel speed is pretty accurate (double portaging)."

+1 Agree with that. I'm sure that some younger guys who are hell-bent on covering territory can do better."

Other than the last day of a Quetico solo trip last year, I can't say I've made much of an effort to log my actual travel rate. I've charted my travel more by mileage, and when possible I've used Robert Beymer's BWCAW/Quetico books as a daily travel and mileage guide.

A rate of 1.5 to 2.0 miles per hour seems low to me, even with double portaging. So I'm curious as to how these rates were calculated. So I ask; were you guys using a GPS or is this calculated by figuring your time from point to point of a know distance?

Per my calculations on the last day of a recent solo trip, I know for a fact I was at a rate of 4.0 miles per hour. To be realistic though, this is more the exception than the rule. It was primarily lake travel and I had only one portage of 1/2 mile, but it still required a double portage. I also was not bucking a stiff wind or dealing with capping waves. And as we all know, as the trip progresses the packs get lighter and you're in more of a rhythm. (Equipment used; Kevlar Flex-Core Wenonah Voyager with a 240 cm Werner Camano Carbon K1 paddle.)

I suppose a portage laden route, (of let's say seven portages or more per day), the two mile an hour rate would be more realistic. Nevertheless, since this topic has been brought up, I'm more inclined to pay closer attention to the actual rate of travel on future trips.

I'm surprised that many replies have mentioned that the solo rate was less than their tandem rate. Obviously this is due to single portaging when tandem versus double portaging when solo.

Unless I'm travel tandem with another adult male, I still double portage when tandem with the wife and/or the kids. As bhouse46 mentioned though, I'm less encumbered by others when solo, so I can get underway earlier and travel longer.

Still, I wonder if those of you that replied are factoring in latrine and lunch breaks, as well as time out for fishing, photography or exploring?

Hans Solo

Hans-

My response to your post would basically be: "Yes, the 2 mph figure basically covers the total time I spend, on average, covering the mileage, including +2X portage distance for double portaging, that I have calculated using maps, guidebooks, and the interactive planning map at MN canoeing. In my case it includes a lot of "picture-taking time" and a little eating/drinking/pit stop time. It includes "stopping to smell the roses" :). The mileage is probably somewhat imprecise due to exploring bays, scouting campsites, looking for portages, etc. The time is also an approximation, i.e., I started at about 8:00 AM and stopped about 1:00 PM. I do not calculate it using a GPS, a chronograph/stopwatch, or anything like that. It includes those factors, as well as variances due to wind and portage difficulty. It's just a conservative "average" I use for my planning to avoid having overambitious trip goals and wind up being way behind schedule like my first solo.

The second part of my response would be to reiterate the thought behind my initial response to the OP's post: My travel speed may have little relevance to you or anyone else, and vice versa. I have no idea how long it's going to take MacCamper (or anyone else) to solo to Mahlberg. I imagine there would be a good bit of variance in the individual times of all the soloists who do it in a year. I guess, to my mind it's kind of akin to someone asking, "how long does it take to run a marathon".

I hear what you're saying boonie. It makes sense to err on the conservative side, especially when making recommendations to others we're not completely familiar with.

Hans Solo

Hey, if you figure 2.0 MPH one particular day and actually go 3.0 MPH on a estimated 10 mile trip then you have....some extra time in camp for chores, or some time to fish, or some extra hammock time to snooze... No worries!!

Every poster's insight has helped me considerably as I plan my solo summer forays into the BWCA. Thank you all for your support. As the proverbial "Father Jack", according to my fellow camp mates as I am the one to makes the plans, gets the food, lines up the equipment and kicks the asses on the lakes, the portages and sites to make sure we at least get where we want to go, have a fire, set up camp and eat, the knowledge gained from your solo experiences are very profitable to me.

Trekking individually, I can hardly wait to travel when I want to (early riser with the sun I am), find a solo campsite and bust butt or take my time getting somewhere, anywhere into the BWCA, not that I needed anyone's permission mind you. Taking a two mph speed into account really facilitates my expectations.

I appreciate your help.

I'll just add that I rarely find myself traveling much slower than that (maybe 1.5), but I may travel faster, especially if I need to. Like Exo, I'd rather be done traveling early with extra time rather than getting there late.

quote boonie: "Peoples' travel times vary so greatly that I find it impossible to give or take advice on it. I double portage and I take my time. I average about 2 mph. I got to Mahlberg in two easy days. Even as a tandem, I doubt we'd come close to getting to Mahlberg in 3 hours. I wouldn't even want to try."

We had hoped to get to Malberg -- tandem -- on the first day in 2006. Mainly because of low water, we only made to Polly. Busy area. Find a campsite early!

quote OldGreyGoose: "

quote boonie: "Peoples' travel times vary so greatly that I find it impossible to give or take advice on it. I double portage and I take my time. I average about 2 mph. I got to Mahlberg in two easy days. Even as a tandem, I doubt we'd come close to getting to Mahlberg in 3 hours. I wouldn't even want to try."

We had hoped to get to Malberg -- tandem -- on the first day in 2006. Mainly because of low water, we only made to Polly. Busy area. Find a campsite early! "

I was just through there in early Sept. and it was lower than that there, requiring a bushwhack portage across to the right. There was plenty of extra portaging through the mud between Square and Kawasachong.

I never have kept track of time and distance as a measurement when soloing. My estimate of 1.5 - 2 mph is just a WAG. When solo I know I paddle slower because I can travel at my own pace and "stop to smell the roses". I may stop padling in the middle of the lake to admire the view, or I may stop to watch wildlife (I see a lot more when soloing), etc.

I have no doubt that some paddle a solo 4 mph. I'm not one of them. :)

wow, you guys are time demons, it amazes me how you put all this to exact detail. (i realize it's winter.)
i put my gear in the canoe and go, i have a plan, but not too concerned about time travel. smell the pines. stay warm.

quote bwcasolo: "wow, you guys are time demons, it amazes me how you put all this to exact detail. (i realize it's winter.)
i put my gear in the canoe and go, i have a plan, but not too concerned about time travel. smell the pines. stay warm.
"

Sounds like the perspective of one of those "base-camper types" :). I think the "time to travel" gains importance if you are a "traveler" planning a 60-mile loop compared to just going in a few lakes and taking day trips.

As noted above in my reply to Hans, my travel speed estimate is not exactly "exact". Actually, it's purposely "inexact" and conservative precisely so I do have time to smell the pines and don't have to be a time demon.

That's a lesson I learned on my first BWCA solo when I ended up exiting a day late and even that was struggle. It was due to a convergence of factors, one of which I decided was overestimating my travel speed.

My paddling speed is more akin to what whitewater raft guides here (in WV) call a "current paddler" than it is to a canoe racer. What's a current paddler? You know - those people who put their paddle in the water and lift it out after the current carries it back to them ;).

So in the final analysis, I use my time estimate so I can plan a longer travel trip but still be in the same frame of mind as you: "smell the pines". It's a better place to be than pressing for hours and miles and exiting a day late.

I hope you have another nice trip in 2014.

quote boonie: "

quote bwcasolo: "wow, you guys are time demons, it amazes me how you put all this to exact detail. (i realize it's winter.)
i put my gear in the canoe and go, i have a plan, but not too concerned about time travel. smell the pines. stay warm.
"

Sounds like the perspective of one of those "base-camper types" :). I think the "time to travel" gains importance if you are a "traveler" planning a 60-mile loop compared to just going in a few lakes and taking day trips.


As noted above in my reply to Hans, my travel speed estimate is not exactly "exact". Actually, it's purposely "inexact" and conservative precisely so I do have time to smell the pines and don't have to be a time demon.


That's a lesson I learned on my first BWCA solo when I ended up exiting a day late and even that was struggle. It was due to a convergence of factors, one of which I decided was overestimating my travel speed.


My paddling speed is more akin to what whitewater raft guides here (in WV) call a "current paddler" than it is to a canoe racer. What's a current paddler? You know - those people who put their paddle in the water and lift it out after the current carries it back to them ;).


So in the final analysis, I use my time estimate so I can plan a longer travel trip but still be in the same frame of mind as you: "smell the pines". It's a better place to be than pressing for hours and miles and exiting a day late.


I hope you have another nice trip in 2014."

+1
Exactly my intent for this and the double bladed discussion. While an extra day in the BWCA due to poor planning would likely be inconvenient on the water, the retribution for tardiness I would certainly receive at home could be injurious to future opportunities.
I don't want to over extend myself, yet still explore the possibilities, and need to cover my bases away and at home. Thanks again for the insight.

MacCamper-

I don't know if you'll travel solo more like Hans or somebody like IBFLY or more like Bannock and me. Even you don't know for sure, or you wouldn't be asking. You'll know more about how fast you can travel and more importantly, how fast you prefer to travel, after your first solo. It also depends on how many hours a day you want to travel. Even after the first few days, you'll know more.

As Exo said, too much time is "no worries". But too little time is pretty much like you imagine it might be ;).

A couple of other observations from my experience that might be of benefit for your first solo:

You'll be doing all the camp chores, so it may take a little longer.

On an out-and-back trip you'll easily know how long it will take you to travel back when you're 3 days into your 6-day trip, whether you've gone 3/4 as far as you planned or 1 1/2X as far. Loops are only slightly more complicated. A point-to-point trip you really should have a pretty good idea... It's a lot easier to adjust

I like to have a layover/weather day in my plan.

quote boonie: "

quote bwcasolo: "wow, you guys are time demons, it amazes me how you put all this to exact detail. (i realize it's winter.)
i put my gear in the canoe and go, i have a plan, but not too concerned about time travel. smell the pines. stay warm.
"

Sounds like the perspective of one of those "base-camper types" :). I think the "time to travel" gains importance if you are a "traveler" planning a 60-mile loop compared to just going in a few lakes and taking day trips.


As noted above in my reply to Hans, my travel speed estimate is not exactly "exact". Actually, it's purposely "inexact" and conservative precisely so I do have time to smell the pines and don't have to be a time demon.


That's a lesson I learned on my first BWCA solo when I ended up exiting a day late and even that was struggle. It was due to a convergence of factors, one of which I decided was overestimating my travel speed.


My paddling speed is more akin to what whitewater raft guides here (in WV) call a "current paddler" than it is to a canoe racer. What's a current paddler? You know - those people who put their paddle in the water and lift it out after the current carries it back to them ;).


So in the final analysis, I use my time estimate so I can plan a longer travel trip but still be in the same frame of mind as you: "smell the pines". It's a better place to be than pressing for hours and miles and exiting a day late.


I hope you have another nice trip in 2014."

hmmm, how do i say this, boonie, i should have been more helpful since i know in the early years of canoe travel, time and distance is important.
i have somewhere around 30-35 solo trips in the bwca and quetico.
i travel now by expert map reading to judge my time of travel, and i always have the flexibility of time, to know exactly where i am and how long it will take me to end a trip.
we all have a speed, and over many years of canoe travel we should get to the point where we can judge how far, how fast etc.
there are so many routes in books, routes on websites, trip reports, etc., that today a rookie paddler could have a well thought out plan and execute it.
the best trips imo are the ones where you find the adventure without a step by step, detailed itinerary.
hope this give's you a little insight regarding this old "basecamper type".
carry on.

bwcasolo- Actually, I should probably be apologizing to you. Sorry about that. I didn't mean for it to sound so critical of you. I was just trying to point out to the OP that our objective was the same, although by different processes. I was just pulling your leg with the basecamper comment.

I think it's important for people to hear different perspectives. I'm sure when we've done as many trips as you, we'll probably be tripping just like that. It's one of my goals sometime - to just go without a plan at all.

thanks, no problem here, i still have a plan when i travel, it just has options along the way. that is what i enjoy about solo travel, you decide. have a good year of trips.