Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Group Forum: Solo Tripping
      Flotation bags?     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

missmolly
distinguished member(7210)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
10/31/2016 08:01AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I paddle a Bell Rockstar and use flotation bags in the bow and stern. I figure it could sink with equipment lashed to it. Is my thinking faulty?
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
10/31/2016 08:26AM  
Unless the equipment lashed is heavy, you may be overthinking. I cannot carry a pack that is heavier than the water it displaces. My 60 L/3600 CI pack needs to weigh 130 pounds to sink. At 30 pounds typical weight it serves as a float bag.

butthead
 
Alan Gage
distinguished member(1087)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 10:17AM  
What Butthead said. Unless you're carrying nothing but pots and pans the packs should float.

Alan
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7210)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
10/31/2016 11:09AM  
I'm not worried about the packs. I'm worried about my boat. I want it floating high.
 
Alan Gage
distinguished member(1087)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 11:42AM  
quote missmolly: "I'm not worried about the packs. I'm worried about my boat. I want it floating high. "

I don't know if I quite understand. If the packs float how can they sink your canoe? The packs weigh less than water so with packs firmly tied into the boat they'll displace more water than they weigh and the canoe should float higher.

Alan
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7210)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
10/31/2016 12:30PM  
quote Alan Gage: "quote missmolly: "I'm not worried about the packs. I'm worried about my boat. I want it floating high. "


I don't know if I quite understand. If the packs float how can they sink your canoe? The packs weigh less than water so with packs firmly tied into the boat they'll displace more water than they weigh and the canoe should float higher.


Alan"


There are other things in the canoe that don't float that I tie to my canoe, like my full-sized tackle box.
 
Alan Gage
distinguished member(1087)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 12:43PM  
I guess you'd need to do a rough estimation of how much water the float bags displace and how heavy your other gear is. Even if the float bags are just end bags I'd think it would take an awful lot of heavy gear to actually sink the canoe.

Alan
 
Alan Gage
distinguished member(1087)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 03:02PM  
quote missmolly: "

There are other things in the canoe that don't float that I tie to my canoe, like my full-sized tackle box. "


Thinking about this a little more. It will also depend how much water this other gear, like your tackle box, displaces. For instance let's say your tackle box weighs 20 pounds but only displaces 18 pounds of water. This obviously means it's heavier than water and will sink. But as far as your boat is concerned that tackle box only adds 2 pounds when swamped because if it wasn't there 18 pounds of water would be taking its place.

Alan
 
10/31/2016 06:35PM  
1 cubic foot of tackle-box needs to weigh 62 pounds to sink in water. Just how heavy is your tackle box? Not making fun, just pointing simple water displacement. My example of a 3600 ci pack that weighs 30 pounds has 100 pounds of positive displacement, a typical PFD may have 20 pounds.

butthead
 
quark2222
distinguished member(921)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 06:58PM  
As an idiot that went into the distribution of pumps close to 30 years ago, I can tell you that a gallon of water weighs about 8.3 lbs/gallon. If you can figure out how many gallons your pack holds, you can figure out how much it would weigh if it was full of water instead of gear. If you want a handy, free, conversion program to download for all kinds of things from cubic inches to gallons, viscosity, power, pressure, metric to English, etc., try the following small program. It is put out by one of our major product lines, and I use it all the time at work:

Uconeer

Tomster
 
Alan Gage
distinguished member(1087)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/31/2016 09:10PM  
quote butthead: "1 cubic foot of tackle-box needs to weigh 62 pounds to sink in water. Just how heavy is your tackle box? Not making fun, just pointing simple water displacement.
butthead"


That's if the tackle box was water tight, which it probably isn't. Lost of people can confirm from empirical evidence that tackles boxes generally sink.

Alan
 
sedges
distinguished member(695)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/01/2016 10:58AM  
This might be the wrong season to do this, but it the surest way to answer this question for any given canoe and outfit. Pack your outfit as you would for a trip, everything in waterproof bags, etc. Pack food, too as you would for a trip. Take your canoe to a lake with easy access and shallow water to wade in. I usually do it at a boatramp. Swamp it and see what happens. I think you will be surprised. I did this when I had a royalite solo that I didn't think had enough flotation. It did.

A pack with a sleeping bag and clothes in watertight bags is a major flotation device. Food is, too. Unless you like carrying cast iron cookware, most of your outfit is flotation if packed in a waterproof manner.

Do they not make water tight tackle boxes? A sure niche market for Pelican!
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7210)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/01/2016 11:33AM  
I've never tipped a canoe, but I was in a jon boat that sunk once and lots of our gear went down to the lake bottom. My concern with a canoe is that similar fishing gear will sink and take a neural buoyancy boat with it, thus the flotation bags. They don't weight much, so I think I'll continue to take them. Lightweight insurance policy.
 
jcavenagh
distinguished member(4562)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/01/2016 03:33PM  
Hey, mm....Whatever floats your boat... <:-o
 
muddyfeet
distinguished member(753)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/12/2017 01:24PM  
quote jcavenagh: "Hey, mm....Whatever floats your boat... <:-o"

That might be the most perfect response ever!
 
01/12/2017 02:38PM  
My Bell Magic c aluminum gunwales is just a tad more buoyant than neutral. It would not take much to sink it and having floatation bags would certainly help with righting her if swamped. If you were to try and right it in open water you would probably have to disconnect all your packs anyway.
 
bwcasolo
distinguished member(1958)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/12/2017 06:10PM  
shouldn't the canoe float?
 
pswith5
distinguished member(3423)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
01/12/2017 08:07PM  
I think it would take a lot of effort to sink your canoe. Even with wet gear in it. Flotation bags would make it more buoyant but may also make it more difficult to get back in. I have always had mixed feelings about strapping gear into my canoe. Probably makes it more difficult to turn it back over. And as has been suggested most packs will float for a while. On the other hand if you are in moving water or windy conditions your strapped in gear would stay with your boat. I tend to think if I go over I can just walk out if my gear is too comprimised.
 
01/13/2017 07:54AM  
quote bwcasolo: "shouldn't the canoe float?"

Yeah, my first thought was "it'll carry hundreds of pounds, maybe 650 with 6" freeboard."

Then I figured he must mean swamped and full of water . . . ?
 
01/13/2017 08:27AM  
Just a question for ya. Have you ever dumped your solo canoe intentionally to find out how well it floats?
It's a good way to learn and prepare for an accidental dump. I know my canoe will float when full of water, it even takes an effort to submerge it fully and pops right back to the surface when I loose my grip on it. Most all canoes made now have flotation tanks. The time I dumped all my packs floated inside/outside the canoe. In such a situation the last thing I'll worry about is fishing gear.

butthead
 
01/13/2017 06:53PM  
If you and your equipment don't exceed the weight limit of your canoe, the presence of the equipment in the canoe isn't going to cause it to sink.

If it gets swamped, the presence of the packs will add buoyancy to the canoe, which increases it's floatation. However, I wouldn't tie in all my non buoyant heavy stuff and let the packs float free.
 
01/20/2017 03:05PM  
I'm with the school of thought of not tying my packs to my canoe. The reason is, I can right my canoe much easier with them out. My packs will have enough trapped air that they won't sink for a long time. In the BW we're usually on a lake or a lazy flowing river so the packs shouldn't go too far. I'm not sure I can get back into a solo can in the water,but I can swim back to shore with just the canoe and I. Then I retrieve the packs by tying a rope to the packs and tow them to shore.
 
02/12/2017 01:07PM  
Miss M,
There was an interesting article in last summer or fall's BWJ (I think) about a trio on Whiteclay (Wabakimi) that capsized. Their gear was largely lashed to the gunnels and the interior of each bage was sealed with waterproof dry bags. Essentially, anything not tied in such as tackle boxes, reel bags, cameras, etc. sunk to the bottom. The rest of the gear "floated out" from under the boat. The boat was kevlar and floated as well until they could paddle/drift themselves to shore on an island.

They were extremely lucky and kept their heads but it was interesting that their 3-person boat did indeed float in high wind and waves.
 
02/13/2017 10:14AM  
Pick a nice day, shallow water and prove it. It'd be good practice anyhow.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
Group : Solo Tripping Sponsor:
Friend of the Boundary Waters Wilderness