[I'll preface this with the obvious caveats -- everybody's paddling technique and cadence is different, paddles and canoes are different, water conditions matter, etc.]

I'm wondering if anybody has a *rough* *percentage* estimate of how much more efficient a bent shaft paddle is compared to a straight shaft paddle. 10% 15%? 20%?

The frequency in which "more efficient" accompanies labeling and talk about bent shaft paddles is, frankly, puzzling compared to how often actual numbers accompany that talk. It's kind of like the terms "local" or "all-natural" on food labeling: those terms are largely empty -- and possibly misleading -- if they're devoid of factual and transparent grounding.

(I understand it can be difficult to offer a blanket efficiency rating for something like a paddle -- which depends so much on the user -- but plenty of other sporting and outdoor products offer insight into their performance characteristics; even a limited but informed YMMV efficiency estimate would be better than nothing at all.)

To add some specifics for the nitpickers, let's say I'm talking about an all-wood 11-degree bent shaft and a comparable (that is, to the extent that they are comparable) all-wood straight shaft. Solo paddler. Average strength and abilities. Mixed paddling conditions and wind -- lakes, rivers, etc. (Alternatively, though, if anybody has insight into bent shaft efficiency for *their own* particular paddling and body characteristics, that could give me a ballpark idea.)

I suppose this could be measured/estimated by how much more efficient a bent shaft is *per stroke*, or alternatively, how much more efficient it is over the course of a day or week of paddling. Those two percentages might be the same, might not. Obviously, though, the larger the sample size the more accurate the number will be. Perhaps the best metric to use is paddle times, on a regularly traveled route, over the course of multiple trips, of bent vs straight. Or a GPS logging MPH.

(If I had both types of paddles on hand I would test this myself.)

I think the difference for the average paddler would be nearly non-existent.

Like you said so much is dependent on paddling style. I usually paddle hit and switch and my normal cadence is 60 strokes/minute. While I think I derive some benefit from a bent shaft in this situation I probably get more benefit from the 10oz. carbon paddle as opposed to a 20oz. wood one.

30 strokes/minute and a mix of hit and switch and correction strokes is probably a wash. Whichever one feels most comfortable to you will probably be the most efficient. And whichever one feels most comfortable to you will probably be the one you've spent the most time with. If you're comfortable with one the other will feel awkward when you switch. It will take time to get good with either.

Alan

Hopefully "littleredcanoe" will chime in.
CB

Bent shafts are designed for use in a seated position, hit and switch paddling, generally using a quick cadence and a short stroke (exiting before your hips). If used in this fashion there is a noticeable gain in speed and efficiency as well as a decrease in fatigue due to the use of a lighter paddle and larger core muscles. I think that the difference is fairly notable as I've yet to have a competent paddler switch back to a straight once they've become comfortable with the bent including a couple of traditionalists that were very opposed to the notion before a day in the saddle with a bent in hand.

If you kneel, or use corrective strokes (really all "corrective" strokes are a form of ruddering) a bent could reduce efficiency and effectiveness.

Yep, proper paddle-specific technique is important. And yep, that seems to be the overriding case: once people go to bent shaft, they typically don't go back to straight (as in, they use bent more often, though obviously some will still use straight for situations where that type of paddle is better).

And yep, I don't think that bent shafts *aren't* more efficient. It's just that it would be nice to know *how much* more efficient they typically are. (Among other things, it would help inform the price:performance boost decision-making process.)

Also, though, I'd put my money on there being a quasi "placebo effect" with the switch to bent paddles: if everybody is telling you they're more efficient, and there is an actual (but unknown) efficiency boost, and you've dropped money on the paddle, I bet many people unwittingly *overstate* the efficiency bump, if not in numbers than in verbiage. And the cycle repeats.

FredDog-

If you're considering a bent for solo work (providing you have a boat that is a sit-down hull with a center mounted seat) take a good hard look at a ZRE paddle. The feedback the paddles provide is astonishing- not to mention the joy of moving an 8oz stick all day. Best gear I've ever purchased for canoeing.

The "efficiency" of a bent shaft is that since you paddle with the blade bent forward, you are lifting less water at the end of the stroke since you complete the power phase at your hip rather than pulling it through to the end as you do with a straight paddle. Thus it is deemed more "efficient".

I have an issue with how you set up the problem because you want a number averaged over all conditions. That isn't how I use my paddles. We replaced our spare paddle with two bent shaft paddles that were about the same weight as the single spare.

The result is that I use the bent when paddling across a lake and the straight when winding my way down a creek or when I feel the straight provides me with better control. My wife is doing the same up in the bow. The result is that I don't have any efficiency loss from using the wrong paddle for the wrong situation.

So, how much better is the bent shaft for going across a lake? Good question. It would be interesting to see numbers. But it is better. We have a joke in our canoe, "Is that a tailwind or a Zaveral?" And I'm probably closer to an average paddler than I'd like to admit.

As for cost/benefit. The Zaverals are getting pretty pricey and I'm glad we got ours a long time ago. But I also bought a used Wenonah carbon fiber bent from Piragis recently for a bit over $100. So that's a source of efficient, pretty light paddles, for less money.

So far most of the comparisons seem to be good bent paddle technique (short strokes) vs. poor straight paddle technique (long strokes). I think if you cut down the length of a traditional straight blade (almost everyone uses a shorter bent) and used the same short and high cadence stroke that the differences would be greatly diminished.

That doesn't mean I plan to give up my bent shafts any time soon but when I pick up a straight paddle what slows me down most is the extra length and weight, not the straight blade.

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "So far most of the comparisons seem to be good bent paddle technique (short strokes) vs. poor straight paddle technique (long strokes). I think if you cut down the length of a traditional straight blade (almost everyone uses a shorter bent) and used the same short and high cadence stroke that the differences would be greatly diminished.

That doesn't mean I plan to give up my bent shafts any time soon but when I pick up a straight paddle what slows me down most is the extra length and weight, not the straight blade.

Alan"

Yeah, most people keep a straight in the water way too long...unless they are doing corrective strokes. Pushing water up does no good.

If you do not mind an opinion from a lazy, short, fat old guy,

Paddlin with straight and bent.

Both ZRE Z Lite, I ordered, straight 50 inch 8 1/2inch wide blade, bent 48, 8inches wide. Straight for easy paddlin and play, bent is much easier for straight long paddling. Tools meant for different purposes, sized for those.

Not very scientific, your quest for efficiency % will be near impossible to verify. Too many variables. If comparing identical spec only different in bend, one will be poorly sized. Of course either paddle will get you where you need to go.

butthead

Could it be that that bent or straight are equally efficient in transferring power/ forward momentum to the hull when used correctly in short vertical paddles blades in the power phase?

Is Hit and Switch more efficient overall because there is no corrective stoke element? Where you rob forward momentum, using it to alter the direction of the canoe?

To prove A efficiency vs value would need a whole lot of reproducible and quantitative instrumentation that I for one do not have and a way to express value per unit.

For me how I want to Paddle makes it more efficient (enjoyable)in my mind. Own several of each and some stuff between and they all have there place for me.

a 10 degree bend paddle is 10% more efficient, a 14 degree bend paddle is 14% more efficient.
If you really want to increase paddle efficiency, go with a 50 degree or better yet a 90 degree bend.
The trick is that the greater the bend, the more difficult it is to use properly, that's why the "S" bend paddles are becoming more popular, both bends contribute to efficiency, simply add the degree of both bends together.
Thus an "S" bend paddle that has two 12 degree bends is 24% more efficient.

I hear Bell is working on a quad bend paddle that has four 11.25 degree bends, it will be 45% more efficient than a straight paddle. It also weighs only 5 ounces, so I'd hold off buying any new paddles and wait for this, it will be a game changer.

quote ZaraSp00k: " a 10 degree bend paddle is 10% more efficient, a 14 degree bend paddle is 14% more efficient.
If you really want to increase paddle efficiency, go with a 50 degree or better yet a 90 degree bend.
The trick is that the greater the bend, the more difficult it is to use properly, that's why the "S" bend paddles are becoming more popular, both bends contribute to efficiency, simply add the degree of both bends together.
Thus an "S" bend paddle that has two 12 degree bends is 24% more efficient.


I hear Bell is working on a quad bend paddle that has four 11.25 degree bends, it will be 45% more efficient than a straight paddle. It also weighs only 5 ounces, so I'd hold off buying any new paddles and wait for this, it will be a game changer."

heh

quote butthead: Not very scientific, your quest for efficiency % will be near impossible to verify. Too many variables. If comparing identical spec only different in bend, one will be poorly sized. Of course either paddle will get you where you need to go.

butthead"

I guess I don't think it would be too hard. If I had both types of paddles I could get some decent numbers in a week or so of paddling on the same stretch of water. The only other things needed are a watch, or better yet, a GPS. I'm not looking for scientific, peer-reviewed, reproducible data. Just a *ballpark*. (And I'm not "asking" for anyone to do this test for me; if nobody else cares enough, that's fine -- no sweat. As you said, both get you where you need to go. I *promise* I'm usually not this scientific with my outdoor gear choices.)

When I said comparable bent shaft and straight-shaft paddles, I didn't mean exact same length (because bents are typically shorter). I meant comparable in terms of price and where it sits in a manufacturer's product line. Comparing a ZRE bent shaft paddle to a Carlisle paddle, for example, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

quote andym: "I have an issue with how you set up the problem because you want a number averaged over all conditions. That isn't how I use my paddles. "

Yep, that's totally fair. I should have built into my problem the assumption that people will only use their bent when conditions favor a bent, and then go to an alternate paddle -- typically a straight, for versatility -- when conditions favor that. (The primary reason for two paddles, of course, is safety. The bent+straight combo just makes the most of the two-paddle setup.)

So as you said, basically a bent for lakes and a straight for winding rivers. We should remember, though, that there will be times when one winds up using the "wrong" paddle for a particular stretch of water, yet it doesn't make sense to go through the effort of switching paddles. So in those situations, the efficiency of each respective paddle would take a hit -- whether the efficiency of each drops a similar percentage, I dunno.

If you do the tests with different paddles it would be interesting to review your findings, and conclusions.

I will do some tests and let you know

quote Alan Gage: "So far most of the comparisons seem to be good bent paddle technique (short strokes) vs. poor straight paddle technique (long strokes). I think if you cut down the length of a traditional straight blade (almost everyone uses a shorter bent) and used the same short and high cadence stroke that the differences would be greatly diminished.

That doesn't mean I plan to give up my bent shafts any time soon but when I pick up a straight paddle what slows me down most is the extra length and weight, not the straight blade.

Alan"

Yep, that makes sense to me. Bent = typically shorter = typically lighter, which helps with the efficiency.

quote mrgreen: "I will do some tests and let you know"

Great! The BWCA Journal of Science will be eagerly awaiting your results.

Here's one way to skin the cat:

BB Explorer Plus Straight = about 23oz
BB Cruiser Plus 11 Bent = about 22 oz

These paddles seem comparable in terms of price, etc. Very similar surface area.

Bent is 1 oz, or 4.3%, lighter. So in my non-scientist eyes, the bent is 4.3% more efficient, just in terms of weight. Then you add the paddle stroke efficiency bump.

I don't know how much better they are, but I know it's a lot. Very noticable. I recommend the Caviness BS14 , it's $79 at Fleet Farm, and usually goes on sale at some point.

quote ZaraSp00k: " a 10 degree bend paddle is 10% more efficient, a 14 degree bend paddle is 14% more efficient..."

I think you're on to something there!!! ;)

So, how many flat water racers use straight paddles?

It will be interesting to see how the proposed tests go. In sailing, it is really hard to do tests with a single boat due to variations in wind and currents. So the standard way to tune a boat is to take two identical boats and sail them in a formation so that both boats are getting equal wind and keep tuning the sails on whichever boat is slower. This works because we do have sailboats with the same designs. It's actually a lot of fun because you are sailing in close formation and chatting back and forth.

Doing it with canoes may be harder because it is hard to control the paddler effort between two boats. Here's a suggestion: take out two boats, one with a trolling motor, one a canoe with both types of paddles on board. Paddle with the straights and set the speed on trolling motor until you have trouble keeping up. Then switch to the bents and see what happens. This will help adjust for variations in wind resistance.

quote Banksiana: "Bent shafts are designed for use in a seated position, hit and switch paddling, generally using a quick cadence and a short stroke (exiting before your hips). "

Unless racing, why would one use a short stroke (exiting before the hips) when a bent shaft paddle still has "usable stroke" left in it because of the blade being bent forward? When the shaft of the paddle is parallel to the body (at the hips), the blade is still pointing forward. Therefore, to continue the stroke is to utilize the entire usefulness of each stoke.

Mythbusters!


It makes sense from a physics standpoint. I came by a set of bent shaft accidently...

I've never used them because I don't have clue. And they seam like they'd be a bitch to steer with in any kind of current.

Rumor has it you need both bow and stern users to be efficient.

They look nice hanging in the garage though.

I don't find them to be much more efficient at all, as I like to use the J stroke. Never been able to do a decent J with a bent shaft.

quote Jackfish:
Unless racing, why would one use a short stroke (exiting before the hips) when a bent shaft paddle still has "usable stroke" left in it because of the blade being bent forward? When the shaft of the paddle is parallel to the body (at the hips), the blade is still pointing forward. Therefore, to continue the stroke is to utilize the entire usefulness of each stoke."

I don't know if I'd agree that the blade is still pointing forward at the hip since the shaft is likely not vertical. But besides that the longer the stroke the more it will want to turn the canoe. Short strokes = less correction strokes. An efficient stroke puts most of the power far forward at the catch. Pulling past your hips also brings your arms more into play which is definitely not efficient. A short stroke can be done with the core.

As for racers not using straight blades I'd counter with how many trippers actually have a good forward stroke with bents and cruise at 65 strokes/minute? As with any competitive sport racers are looking for any tiny little advantage they can get since they're pushing their bodies and boats to the limit. Something that could cut 1 minute off their time in a 12 mile race would make them untouchable but likely not matter much to the likes of you and me.

For testing the efficiency of the two paddles types I think the best that could be done by us regular Joes would be to pair a heart rate monitor and GPS. This is what I used to do when I was messing around with racing and fitness training and wanted to compare the speed of multiple boats. You need a long course, something like 3 miles, to even out the readings. Pick a speed and maintain it for the entire course. What was your average heart rate for each paddle? Or else you pick a heart rate (level of exertion) and hold it for the entire course. What was your average speed for each paddle?

You'd need to be equally proficient with both for semi-accurate results.

It's fun to think about.

Alan

quote Jackfish: "
Unless racing, why would one use a short stroke (exiting before the hips) when a bent shaft paddle still has "usable stroke" left in it because of the blade being bent forward? When the shaft of the paddle is parallel to the body (at the hips), the blade is still pointing forward. Therefore, to continue the stroke is to utilize the entire usefulness of each stoke."

As you pull past your hips more and more of the energy of the stroke is used to pull the hull down into the water (the face of the blade increasingly tilts towards the sky)- the result being both increased resistance for the hull and an expenditure of significant energy that does not forward your progress.

Think about the stroke as if you we're sticking your paddle into sand and pulling the boat forward.

A bent shaft paddle is about 8 ounces lighter than a straight shaft.
One stroke moves you about 4 feet.
5280 feet = 1 mile.
10 mile trip = 1 day.

You lift 6,600 pounds less per day with a bent shaft paddle!

Factor in your canoe partner's contribution and it's really only 3300 lbs.

quote bobbernumber3: "A bent shaft paddle is about 8 ounces lighter than a straight shaft.
"

That sounds generous -- ie, biased toward a bent shaft paddle. Where is that number coming from -- and from what paddles?

Above, I compared a *comparable* bent and straight paddle, and the bent was was only about 1 ounce lighter. 4-5 ounces sounds reasonable, too.

8 ounces sounds like a lot. My rough back-of-the-envelope look at that: A not-unreasonable guess of a straight shaft paddle weight is 26 oz. (Many paddles are lighter than this, which would make an 8 ounce difference even more drastic.) If its bent-shaft sibling was 8 ounces less, that would be about a 30% decrease in weight. But that doesn't add up when you think about how much wood you're "lopping off" in order to arrive at a bent paddle of the correct size. A generous estimate of a straight-shaft paddle length is 60"; a generous estimate of the correct corresponding bent-shaft length is 52" -- that's a 14% decrease in wood length. So how does a 14% decrease in wood length translate to a 30% decrease in wood weight?

As everyone knows,bent shafts are trickled down from racing and those guys about 30 some years ago realized that bending the shaft keeps the blade of the paddle vertical in the water longer through out the stroke. A straight shaft starts to angle in the water fairly soon in the stroke pushing the canoe into the water slightly. Thus making the bent shaft more efficient. Over a long day keep track of how many strokes you take. It's a big number for anybody and it makes sense to me to use the most efficient paddle possible. I agree with those who said that many people keep their paddle in the water too long. It gets to the point where the paddle will start slowing you down

quote Cedarboy: "Hopefully "littleredcanoe" will chime in.
CB"

Sorry I meant "yellowcanoe", wrong web site.
CB

Seems like weight should be left out of the equation. Otherwise the question becomes, "what is more efficient, a heavier paddle or a lighter paddle?" They can both be had in heavy or ultralight layups.

Which does raise an interesting question though. Which would you choose: 22 ounce bent shaft or 10 ounce straight?

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "Seems like weight should be left out of the equation. Otherwise the question becomes, "what is more efficient, a heavier paddle or a lighter paddle?" They can both be had in heavy or ultralight layups.

Alan"

Yeah, it's a pretty straightforward thought experiment: *of course* the lighter/shorter paddle will be more efficient.

I only focused on weight because 1) it definitely plays a role and it needs to be factored into any overall efficiency rating; and 2) because nobody had any numerical insight into any other aspect of efficiency ratings re: bent vs straight; The weight comparison is the easiest place to start -- ignoring it kind of puts us back at zero.

The weight comparison is the closest we've come to actually putting some cold, hard numbers with all this talk of bent paddle efficiency.

But again, I'm not concerned with comparing a "heavy" straight layup to a "ultralight" bent layup, or vice versa. These will likely have noticeable price differences, among other things. I'm interested in comparing *comparable* bent and straight paddles -- as in, comparable in terms of price and where it sits in a manufacturer's product line (and *accessibility* -- factoring in one's super killer deal yardsale find will only serve to skew any results). (Of course, I'll leave open the possibility that there are "hidden gems" out there, where a paddle's efficiency punches above its price point.)

Also -- one benefit of looking into the paddle weight efficiency is that it's fixed: that efficiency holds true for any paddler, amateur or pro. It doesn't require proper technique in order to "achieve" that efficiency. This can help inform one's buying decisions (for some people, the 4% paddle weight efficiency bump is more than worth it; for others, it's not at all. And if a buyer factors in their paddling skill level -- ie, how often they will paddle a "perfect" stroke for that particular type of paddle -- they can further gauge how much of an efficiency boost they'll see from a bent-shaft paddle.)

quote Cedarboy: "

quote Cedarboy: "Hopefully "littleredcanoe" will chime in.
CB"

Sorry I meant "yellowcanoe", wrong web site.
CB"

Totally agree - Yellow Canoe might have real test data to share.

Also -- one benefit of looking into the paddle weight efficiency is that it's fixed: that efficiency holds true for any paddler, amateur or pro. It doesn't require proper technique in order to "achieve" that efficiency.

I disagree with that. Someone paddling hit and switch at 65 strokes/minute will see a much larger gain in efficiency by going to a lighter weight paddle as compared to someone using an in-water recovery at 25 strokes/minute who never switches sides.

I agree with doing the comparison with blades of similar weight, design, and quality.

Alan

The 2 paddles linked in 1st video I posted are about as close as you will find.
Straight is .3 ounces lighter than the bent, 2 inches longer shaft, 1/2 inch wider blade.


I have no training, just paddle as feels good, to me.
straight shaft in use
bent shaft in use
I use them differently, because each is more efficient for the style of paddling they are used for/or the mistakes I make with them.

Simply put in my own terms, bentshaft is more comfortable to paddle with across a 5 mile long lake, sit and switch. Straight shaft is more comfortable to paddle when paddling small lakes, or streams, using correction strokes, Canadian style (???).

A bent blade will never be efficient/comfortable to users who do not like the feel of it.

butthead

quote FredDog: "

quote bobbernumber3: "A bent shaft paddle is about 8 ounces lighter than a straight shaft.
"

That sounds generous -- ie, biased toward a bent shaft paddle. Where is that number coming from -- and from what paddles?

"

I just went to the Piragis website and happened to pick:
Bending Branches Arrow - straight... 23oz
Bending Branches Sunburst - bent... 15oz

quote Cedarboy: "Hopefully "littleredcanoe" will chime in.
CB"

ha ha.. rock bashing on the Buffalo.. the increased payback re forward propulsion with a bent shaft for the seated paddler, requires water.

Sitting with a straight the catch pushes down water and pulls up water for a short time at each end of the power stroke.

Kneeling I don't think it matters if you use bent or straight.

What I can attest to is the power of hitting yourself in the chin when your allegedly wonderful stroke fails cause there is no water and the paddle bounces back.

Also there has to be a measure of increased efficiency if you are lifting a little carbon bent shaft of half the weight that is a wood paddle . After 10000 strokes you just have to be maybe half as tired.

Scientific study.. who would fund it?

In inexperienced hands, a bentshaft held backwards has about the same efficiency as a straightshaft, but it makes you look like a serious paddler :)

In all seriousness, I think the big advantage is that a bentshaft gives better body ergonomics through the majority of a stroke. You can make a straight paddle go through the water the same way (not lifting water, etc) but it comes much easier with the bent. You'll promote better technique and be using larger core muscle groups in a more natural way.
I also agree that the difference is not nearly as pronounced as the difference in just using a lighter paddle altogether. That's where you really start to notice less fatigue.

I don't know anything about technical paddling and I fully appreciate short strokes and not lifting water but, this is sounding like the BWCA version of Olympic Paddling competition.

quote BnD: "I don't know anything about technical paddling and I fully appreciate short strokes and not lifting water but, this is sounding like the BWCA version of Olympic Paddling competition."

cmon... its raining and we are not canoe camping..But an ark might be handy here in OK; I always thought of it as hot and dusty.. Not humid and wicked wet and green.

quote bobbernumber3: "

quote FredDog: "

quote bobbernumber3: "A bent shaft paddle is about 8 ounces lighter than a straight shaft.
"

That sounds generous -- ie, biased toward a bent shaft paddle. Where is that number coming from -- and from what paddles?


"

I just went to the Piragis website and happened to pick:
Bending Branches Arrow - straight... 23oz
Bending Branches Sunburst - bent... 15oz"

...So you scrolled past the prices.
Bending Branches Arrow - straight... $99.95
Bending Branches Sunburst - bent... $224.95

*Of course* the $225 mostly-carbon fiber paddle will be lighter than an all-wood one that's $125 cheaper.

I keep repeating that one needs to compare *comparable* paddles to really get a sense of how much "better" (efficient) a bent shaft paddle is.

Here's a better comparison:
Bending Branches Sunburst - straight - $214.95 - 17 oz
Bending Branches Sunburst - bent - $224.95 - 15 oz.

So, if we're only talking about efficiency in regards to paddle weight, that bent, 2 ounces lighter, is 11-13% more efficient.

quote Alan Gage: "

Also -- one benefit of looking into the paddle weight efficiency is that it's fixed: that efficiency holds true for any paddler, amateur or pro. It doesn't require proper technique in order to "achieve" that efficiency.

I disagree with that. Someone paddling hit and switch at 65 strokes/minute will see a much larger gain in efficiency by going to a lighter weight paddle as compared to someone using an in-water recovery at 25 strokes/minute who never switches sides.

Alan"

Perhaps. I dunno. Maybe! Hard for me to wrap my head around this one. I guess my point was that *anyone* -- from the 65 strokes/minute pro to the 25 strokes/minute casual paddler -- will get less tired with a lighter paddle. As to whether both people are the same amount less tired: I dunno. I think it's all relative given each person's fitness. Even though the pro paddler will be "lifting" the paddle 2X more than the amateur, we should also remember that the person doing 25 strokes/minute (or less!) will likely have smaller muscles, stamina, etc.

I do not have any technical advice. But when swapping between the bent shaft and straight shaft I find a noticeable difference in comfort. It fits my paddling style better than the straight shaft, and seems to guide me to the right stroke, I cannot compare efficiency since my bent shaft has a wider blade, which is a huge benefit to speed. But I will say, even using the wider blade I get better speed and I do not fatigue any sooner. So I personally use the double bend as much as I possibly can. The straight paddle is for rocky areas, poling, and landing.

Interesting discussion. I do know that when I'm paddling across flat water I will get across the lake faster with a bent shaft than with a straight shaft. On narrow water a straight shaft comes into play.

The thing that amazes me is to see people with outfitter canoes and bent shaft paddles and they have the paddle backwards. Don't the outfitters tell them how they work. Some times I say something and sometimes I don't.

Interesting thread. Would a scientific study matter? There are too many variables including our personal strokes with each type of paddle. Maybe it really just comes down to trying things.

For me the efficiency of a bent shaft paddle is in steering. It is much easier to keep the canoe straighter with a bent paddle without losing efficiency in the stroke (translated, I can paddle and steer in the same stroke much easier with a bent paddle than I can with a straight paddle). There just are so many more options with a bent paddle (pull left, push right, long stroke/steer, etc.) for both the front and back paddler. With bent paddles, we have reduced the amount of zigzag to a minimum, getting us from point A to point B faster than we ever have before. I don't know if a bent shaft paddle moves more water with less energy in each stroke than a straight paddle, but I do know it helps to get me where I am going faster than I ever have before. I will never go back to a straight paddle again!

In my far from scientific tests I find that my speed is at least 10% faster and I tend to travel around 15% farther on a 3 hour paddle. I resisted bent shafts for a long time but will never go back and have no trouble with most corrective strokes and J stroke all the time. The difference, however, isn't night and day, at least for me.

Once I switched to a bent paddle I feel so in efficient using a straight paddle. Buying one ranks right up there with one of the bests buys I have made.

Now that the rain has stopped and the sun is warming things nicely, we can all go out and do our own testing and report data.

quote andym: "Interesting thread. Would a scientific study matter? There are too many variables including our personal strokes with each type of paddle. Maybe it really just comes down to trying things. "

Exactly. All I know, is when I get tired and or need to pick up my pace I pick up my Zaveral bent shaft. No ifs, ands, or buts, it helps in both.

Once a paddle stroke is started -- water starts to move from the paddle stroke,, the paddle stroke becomes more and more in efficient as it goes along due to the movement of water which the paddle started. The same thing can be seen in swimmers,, who use a "S" stroke in the freestyle (and all other strokes) to try and all ways grab "still" water that has not been moved yet. Without grabbing "fresh" water, your resistance is reduced , and so is your propulsion.

The way I see the advantage of a bent shaft paddle (10 deg or whatever) is that it allows you to move the water initially faster in the stroke (the first 30% ) -- thus more propulsion initially (10% bend compared to O%) , and as long as you stroke fast and find "fresh" water,, more efficient then a 0 degree. Is it really 10%?? That is for another discussion,,, But-- Yeah -- turn them suckers (bent shafts) around -- and you feel what it is like to paddle a -10 degree paddle-- can't do that with a 0 degree. So yeah-- advantage-- as long as you use it correct just like everything else.

I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet....

quote WhiteWolf: "Once a paddle stroke is started -- water starts to move from the paddle stroke,, the paddle stroke becomes more and more in efficient as it goes along due to the movement of water which the paddle started. The same thing can be seen in swimmers,, who use a "S" stroke in the freestyle (and all other strokes) to try and all ways grab "still" water that has not been moved yet. Without grabbing "fresh" water, your resistance is reduced , and so is your propulsion.


The way I see the advantage of a bent shaft paddle (10 deg or whatever) is that it allows you to move the water initially faster in the stroke (the first 30% ) -- thus more propulsion initially (10% bend compared to O%) , and as long as you stroke fast and find "fresh" water,, more efficient then a 0 degree. Is it really 10%?? That is for another discussion,,, But-- Yeah -- turn them suckers (bent shafts) around -- and you feel what it is like to paddle a -10 degree paddle-- can't do that with a 0 degree. So yeah-- advantage-- as long as you use it correct just like everything else.


Very good explanation. Like you said-with a bent shaft it feels like I am pushing water instantly vs a straight shaft the first part of the stroke seems like I am doing nothing.

"

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

I don't believe that image imitates real life. If I took that diagram at its word I'd rather paddle a straight blade. The bent in their image must be about 25 degrees? The straight looks much more efficient; especially if you're keeping your strokes relatively short.

Alan

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

Now that is funny. Where do you find that?

I'm not sure I understand the connection between weight and efficiency...? If a 10% lighter paddle is 10% more efficient, then let's just get rid of paddles altogether. Hey, it's 100% more efficient!!! :)

quote carmike: "I'm not sure I understand the connection between weight and efficiency...? If a 10% lighter paddle is 10% more efficient, then let's just get rid of paddles altogether. Hey, it's 100% more efficient!!! :) "

Weight is a factor for only so much. Besides I am a wood paddle traditionalist. Someday maybe a carbon paddle?

The flaw in that image is that it presumes that the upper hand stays still. If I'm supposed to be doing that then I need some remedial education.

quote Grizzlyman: "

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

Now that is funny. Where do you find that?"

I remembered seeing a similar picture a few year ago so I just googled it. I think the point is supposed to be the a bent shaft paddle is more efficient at pushing the water back where the straight paddle initially pushes the water down then pulls it up after mid stroke.

As with anything personal preference and experience is all that matters. I'm convinced the bent is the way to go, but that's all I've used for many many years.

Maybe it was these images??

quote pamonster: "

quote Grizzlyman: "

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

Now that is funny. Where do you find that?"

I remembered seeing a similar picture a few year ago so I just googled it. I think the point is supposed to be the a bent shaft paddle is more efficient at pushing the water back where the straight paddle initially pushes the water down then pulls it up after mid stroke.

But to me it shows that the straight is more efficient in terms of lifting/pushing down water. Look at the angle they show for the bent shaft compared to the straight. The straight appears to be more vertical through the stroke until the very back, which is too far back and shouldn't have any power applied at that point. The forward portion of the stroke, the catch in particular, is where you want the power applied.

I agree that the bent is more efficient but I think that diagram has got it wrong.

Alan

quote Alan Gage: "

quote pamonster: "

quote Grizzlyman: "

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

Now that is funny. Where do you find that?"

I remembered seeing a similar picture a few year ago so I just googled it. I think the point is supposed to be the a bent shaft paddle is more efficient at pushing the water back where the straight paddle initially pushes the water down then pulls it up after mid stroke.

But to me it shows that the straight is more efficient in terms of lifting/pushing down water. Look at the angle they show for the bent shaft compared to the straight. The straight appears to be more vertical through the stroke until the very back, which is too far back and shouldn't have any power applied at that point. The forward portion of the stroke, the catch in particular, is where you want the power applied.


I agree that the bent is more efficient but I think that diagram has got it wrong.


Alan"

Whoops. Maybe I read this wrong. I thought this was a joke showing the paddle being used the wrong way I would think the power stroke is the beginning. Either way- there is soooo much wrong with that diagram it's comical.

quote Grizzlyman: "

quote Alan Gage: "

quote pamonster: "

quote Grizzlyman: "

quote pamonster: "I'm surprised this image hasn't been dropped in the thread yet.... "

Now that is funny. Where do you find that?"

I remembered seeing a similar picture a few year ago so I just googled it. I think the point is supposed to be the a bent shaft paddle is more efficient at pushing the water back where the straight paddle initially pushes the water down then pulls it up after mid stroke.

But to me it shows that the straight is more efficient in terms of lifting/pushing down water. Look at the angle they show for the bent shaft compared to the straight. The straight appears to be more vertical through the stroke until the very back, which is too far back and shouldn't have any power applied at that point. The forward portion of the stroke, the catch in particular, is where you want the power applied.



I agree that the bent is more efficient but I think that diagram has got it wrong.



Alan"

Whoops. Maybe I read this wrong. I thought this was a joke showing the paddle being used the wrong way I would think the power stroke is the beginning. Either way- there is soooo much wrong with that diagram it's comical. "

The bow is on the right in this diagram, I can see how it would be goofy/backwards the other way