Heading in for a 4-6 day solo trip 7/29 to Cross Bay Lake. First time on this EP. My solos are different for me than my partnered trips.

At 60 years old I am much more deliberate, careful, and take it easier than when I travel with a group.

Also with my solos fishing is not important. I do take a pole and a couple baits, but it is not a priority or a necessity. (Just finished 8 days on SAK with my son non-stop fishing with another trip set for Sept planned).

When I solo the two things that can increase my "pucker factor" are worrying about finding a campsite and paddling big water in wind. (again complete 180 from partnered trips).

I rarely get obsessed with planning routes as I am more inclined to just go where I want, but this EP has me probably overthinking things. I have read some horror stories of many of the campsites in this area like Long Island and Cherokee being full and/or big water like Gillis and Tuscarora being pretty dicey at times. I have read a bazillion trip reports and all have plusses and minuses.

Knowing how I solo, I would love some opinions on my route ideas. I honestly have never fretted over trip planning like this one.

1. Cross to Banadad out and back
2. Cross to Cherokee out and back.
3. Cross to Winchell out and back.
4. Cross-Snipe-Tuscarora-Gillis loop
5. Traditional Frost Lake-Frost River loop.

I'd be surprised if campsites are full after you go thru Cross Bay, Rib, Lower George and on to Long Island - Long Island has lots of island cover if windy. The Winchell route would give me caution if you decide to make it to the eastern shore - heading west thru Winchell can be a problem with wind. I would expect portages to be rather muddy wherever you go. In any event, any of your route possibilities should be fine. Good Luck!

I'm partial to your Cross-Snipe-Gillis loop. Some real pretty country, and it's always nice to see new territory on the way out and back. Just build in a layover day if the wind is kicking up on either Tuscarora or Gillis. I'm 65 and I would do that loop solo, happily!

i favor the cross to cherokee trip. lots of nooks and crannies to poke in and out. nice creek out of cherokee to paddle, as well.

2nd choice is the snipe gillis route.

just be cautious and mindful on the portages and landings.

Following closely.

A buddy and myself were actually thinking about this area next year if we can make our schedules work. If not I'll be going solo to this area.

Thinking about a Brant (ep52) entry possibility. Gillis, Crooked, Tuscarora as a possible tentative route.

Quick question with no intentions of hijacking this thread. What would be the closest campground to ep52?

I've stayed at Trail's End USFS campground several times when going out of Tuscarora (i.e. Missing Link or Brant). Decent campground. Always found a campsite without a problem.

Tom

Mocha: "i favor the cross to cherokee trip. lots of nooks and crannies to poke in and out. nice creek out of cherokee to paddle, as well.


2nd choice is the snipe gillis route.


just be cautious and mindful on the portages and landings."

Are there normally some campsites available on Cherokee?

BigTim: "I'd be surprised if campsites are full after you go thru Cross Bay, Rib, Lower George and on to Long Island - Long Island has lots of island cover if windy. The Winchell route would give me caution if you decide to make it to the eastern shore - heading west thru Winchell can be a problem with wind. I would expect portages to be rather muddy wherever you go. In any event, any of your route possibilities should be fine. Good Luck!"

Good to know. I was under the impression that LIL was kind of like the "Lake One of the East" when it comes to opens sites. :)

wxce1260: "

Mocha: "i favor the cross to cherokee trip. lots of nooks and crannies to poke in and out. nice creek out of cherokee to paddle, as well.
2nd choice is the snipe gillis route.
just be cautious and mindful on the portages and landings."

Are there normally some campsites available on Cherokee? "

Yes, being solo you could use any of them. I don’t know about pushing there all the way the first day, tho. Try for something between noon and 2pm. That might be rib, or long island on your first day.

Maybe you've seen these already???

But, here are a couple trip reports utilizing the Cross Bay entry/exit.

Rainy day people

Homage to the Spartans and other paddling friends

Like others, I'd favor Cherokee route or the Snipe route. I've been in and out of Cross Bay and Round lake several times. As you know, there's only a short walk back to Cross Bay from Round.

Caveat: My trips have been mostly after mid-Sept.

I've stayed on Snipe several times, mostly no one else there. I don't know which route you planned from Snipe to Tuscarora, but I went through Copper and Hubbub, which was interesting. I've gone from Tuscarora to Little Sag and back. Exited at Round Lake.

Cherokee is a nice lake that can also be reached from the south (Sawbill). I have been both ways. On a Cherokee route you could detour to Frost Lake for a night. If you go to Karl or Long Island the first day, it's not far to Cherokee, which has 17 sites.

I've always found a site, but I tend to camp early afternoon. And like Mocha said solo can use about any site. The only time I had to backtrack from a full lake was a least expected one - Sagus Lake. And I only saw one occupied site on Fraser. Go figure.

Have you considered an end to end with a shuttle?

E.G. Route 1. Cross Bay (through Banadad) to Skipper. Have Tuscarora Outfitters shuttle you to Skipper (Poplar Lake) and end back at Cross Bay. Or have Rockwood Outfitters shuttle you to Cross Bay and end back on Skipper (Poplar Lake).

E.G. Route 3 - Cross Bay (through Winchell) to Lizz Lake (Poplar Lake). Same as above. Get shuttle to one end and paddle back to the other. Same outfitters as above.

With six days, I think you could combine a couple routes -

Cross Bay to Cherokee, east to the Temperance Lakes and Brule, up through the cones to Winchell and back through Kiskadinna/Muskeg. Or. End to end finish at Lizz Lake (Poplar). Get the shuttle as per above.

Route 4 - I like this route. Every time I go through this area I like it more and more. The downside is the hassle getting there. The Missing Link>Tuscarora portage is not for the faint of heart. The in and out of the boat through Brandt Lake entry is a full day slog. And the route you are considering is also not easy by any means. Once in there it is a beautiful area, but you have to work for it. I would add a visit to Little Sag if you are going here.

Route 5 - With all the rain in the area this year, I would do this one! This is the opportunity to really take a chance and experience a route very few get to see. Double check with an outfitter to see that water levels are not dangerousy high. But, the high water will mean you can skip a bunch of portages by floating over beaver dams and lining your canoe through some rock gardens that you would normally have to portage around. Go for it!

Michwall2: "Have you considered an end to end with a shuttle?

"

I already have the Cross Bay Lake permit, but that got me thinking... I wonder if Tuscorora (I am staying in their bunkhouse the night before) would shuttle my car with me to Poplar then bring me back to th Cross Bay EP to start then I could start at Cross bay and finish at Poplar with my car.. I may give them a buzz in the morning... this sounds like it could be the winner.

Which way would you go... through Kiskadana or through Banadad?

About 10-12 years ago I had Rockwood on Poplar shuttle me to Cross Bay and just paddled back to Rockwood. I went via Kiskadinna and have not been through Banadad, but from what I've heard it's a bit of a slog between Long Island and Banadad with no campsites until Banadad. Then there are 9 before the exit; no options to deviate from that route.

You're probably aware you'll be portaging "the Wall" between Muskeg and Kiskadinna. Otherwise it's not difficult and more route options with no long stretches without a site., although also probably a busier area. From Kiskadinna you can go straight east to Horseshoe, which is what I did. You can also go north to Meeds, or south to Winchell or Gaskin.

wxce1260: "

Michwall2: "Have you considered an end to end with a shuttle?


"

I already have the Cross Bay Lake permit, but that got me thinking... I wonder if Tuscorora (I am staying in their bunkhouse the night before) would shuttle my car with me to Poplar then bring me back to th Cross Bay EP to start then I could start at Cross bay and finish at Poplar with my car.. I may give them a buzz in the morning... this sounds like it could be the winner.

Which way would you go... through Kiskadana or through Banadad?"

I like both routes, but If you have never been to Winchell, I would go there first. Climb the path to the top of the cliffs and find the waterfall on the south shore.

Paddle Winchell in the morning if possible. It is a very long fetch with cliffs that can act as wind tunnel.

Gaskin and Horseshoe are moose central in the BW. I would plan to spend some early morning time paddling Horseshoe for a chance to see moose.

"The Wall" between Kiskadinna and Muskeg is easier going east to west. But, east to west could put you paddling into the wind most of the way. Toss up?

Have an extra day? It's an easy day trip to hop from Long Island to Frost Lake to spend some time on the golden sand beaches. Frost is also a moose-y spot.

Go through LIL to Banadad? The portages get harder as you go east. Rockier, muddier, etc. I like this area though. It allows for some solitude on an otherwise busy route. I didn't think that this route garnered much attention, but the last time through in August it was full from Banadad back to Skipper. We got a site on Banadad with a funky, slippery, tllted rock to navigate. The Poplar to Skipper mile is not hard, just long. The Rush to Little Rush portage has changed sides of the stream. It is on the north side of the stream now.

Thanks again, leaving next week. Really focusing in on Cross Lake to Poplar. Can anyone give me some solo-tripper "older guy" advice on "The Wall" portage from West to East. I have read a few reports on the site that mention it and alot talk about bits and pieces. Portaging doesn't bother me--but I want to make sure I have my eyes wide open as I hear this could be the toughest portage in the wilderness (my previous toughest would've been Trease to Angleworm in 90 degree heat). Any advice through the lens of an older solo paddler with a double portage mentality would be helpful.

I love starting at Cross Bay Lake and think all the routes you considered are wonderful. I love the site on the east side of Cross Bay.

I would suggest not worrying too much about "the wall" on that Muskeg to Kisk portage. I've walked it about 8 times, and from what I recall it's not that bad a portage except for the one fairly short steep section. The short tiny portage from LIL to Muskeg is actually technically more tricky in my opinion, but a fraction of the length. If you are double portaging, an option to consider would be carry your first load to the base of the steps and then go back and get the rest of the gear. Then just brace yourself for some climbing and get all your gear to the top. then carry on. You'll have about 30 hard minutes of climbing and then it's done.

This video may not be a lot of help, but is shows part of that portage walking from east to west. Toward the end you can see I was descending the steps. You can see the elevation change. I shot this a few years ago to document the terrain conditions when looking for a dog that was lost there 10 days before (and happily found the next day down on Cherokee). But again, the wall is one short section. There are plenty of other portages in the BW I dread more. Musk-Kisk portage

wxce1260: "Thanks again, leaving next week. Really focusing in on Cross Lake to Poplar. Can anyone give me some solo-tripper "older guy" advice on "The Wall" portage from West to East. I have read a few reports on the site that mention it and alot talk about bits and pieces. Portaging doesn't bother me--but I want to make sure I have my eyes wide open as I hear this could be the toughest portage in the wilderness (my previous toughest would've been Trease to Angleworm in 90 degree heat). Any advice through the lens of an older solo paddler with a double portage mentality would be helpful. "

Honestly, I think the Fente to Hub portage is worse (glute burning steep), but more people do this one so it got the reputation. The worst part of going west to east is that you have an easier climb first and you think, "This isn't so bad." Then you hit the steep part and realize, "Oh crap, now I have to really climb." About 70% the way up, it will look like you might be done, but you turn a corner and it goes up some more. It ain't over till it's over.

Take your time. Stop at either end and grab a snickers between climbs. If it's warm, carry your water bottle both ways. It will help to have a water break at both ends.

Hope you have a great trip!

wxce1260: "Can anyone give me some solo-tripper "older guy" advice on "The Wall" portage from West to East"

I'm a solo tripper only a few years behind you. I did this portage west to east in early May of this year. If you don't mind portaging in general I think you will be fine. It's harder than a casual hike, but not as bad as it's reputation and the nickname suggests. It's not a wall, it's just a steep hill, and only for part of the total portage.

It's easy to say from the comfort of home I guess, but since I started soloing with a kevlar canoe (and double portaging) I don't really feel like there are any super hard portages. At least not from an exertion standpoint (what Jaywalker said about Long Island Lake to Muskeg is right on, it's crazy rocky, be careful).

The advantage of soloing is that there's no one to impress or worry about being slower than. You can take it at whatever speed you want. Slower means safer (as you implied) and less power output required. And you can stop for breaths or to drain away any lactic acid whenever you feel like it. With a lightweight canoe you can leave the canoe on your shoulders for brief rests, or it's easy enough to set it down and pick it back up again. I would feel differently about a lot of portages if I was still carrying an 80lb aluminum canoe.

You don't need me to tell you this I'm sure but I try to set myself up to win the expectations game on the harder portages. I tell myself there's going to be some suffering, and that it's probably longer than what it says on the map. I try to forget about the end and just take one step at a time, focusing on my next footfall and where the bow and stern of the boat are relative to the slope and any obstacles. That keeps my mind off of getting to the end and soon enough I get there, with no significant suffering required.

I was actually a little disappointed by this portage. Because of the nickname, I was picturing a section of it being like a goat path along a wall of rock or something, with vertical exposure on the other side of the trail. But it's just a 180 rod portage with a pretty big hill.

Sounds like it's going to be a great trip!