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Mad_Angler
distinguished member(1606)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/01/2019 10:32AM
Hello,

I looked in the search and didn't find exactly what i need...

I have a Lowrance IceMachine X67C.



It works great in the BW. I feel that I have more fun and catch more fish when using it.

The problem is the size and batteries. I am thinking of using a RAM mount to move it to the thwart. I would also like to replace the current 7AH lead-acid battery. The battery lasts a full week in BW now. But it is heavy and big.

I see teases about using packs of 8 or 10 lithium AAs. That sounds very interesting. How exactly are those battery packs made? How long do those packs last?
 
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AmarilloJim
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03/01/2019 12:20PM
These will last several days. Depends on the batteries used and how long you use it each day.
 
Mad_Angler
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03/01/2019 12:33PM
AmarilloJim: " These will last several days. Depends on the batteries used and how long you use it each day."

A few more questions... 1. This unit is 15V. Is that close enough to 12V? 2. I assume that I need a case for this unit. Does that case need to be waterproof? Does someone just sell at 8-10 battery unit that is already waterproof?
 
AmarilloJim
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03/01/2019 01:30PM
The 15V is fine. I just put my battery pack in a ziplock bag and run tape around it. It doesn't need to be waterproof but you should try to keep it dry so the contacts don't rust and cause issues with current flow. I actually had a pack get damp once and once I dried it out and wiped the contacts it worked great again.
 
03/01/2019 01:35PM
I just dug through my wife's food container collection to find something close to size of battery pack. Found one with a good rubber gasket around edge. Couple small pieces of foam for cushioning, drill a hole, feed your wire (you have to do a little custom wire work), little silicone......good to go. I bought 2 battery packs and keep one preloaded with new batteries in a ziplock in a pack. Makes for a quick switch. I was conservative with unit features and on/off and first pack lasted for 3 days. The flasher mode on my unit actually worked well when anchored and vertical jigging for walleyes. Removed the unit from the ice case and made a bracket on the thwart to hold it. Unit, ducer, battery packs all fit into one of those soft sided lunch boxes that went into a pack when portaging.
 
03/01/2019 03:22PM
I've been pointed to the Nocqua 10Ah lithium ion battery pack. It can be charged with a solar charger, has integrated protection, and a nice case. I tried to price out components to build one myself, but after all is said and done, the price is within 10-20% of the Nocqua battery. At only ~1.5lbs it is a pretty tempting proposition, even though it is expensive compared to a bunch of AAs. It'll power a power-hungry fish finder a lot longer than the AA pack as well.

 
MagicPaddler
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03/01/2019 06:27PM
flynn: "I've been pointed to the Nocqua 10Ah lithium ion battery pack. It can be charged with a solar charger, has integrated protection, and a nice case. I tried to price out components to build one myself, but after all is said and done, the price is within 10-20% of the Nocqua battery. At only ~1.5lbs it is a pretty tempting proposition, even though it is expensive compared to a bunch of AAs. It'll power a power-hungry fish finder a lot longer than the AA pack as well.


"

I question what that pack is. I don’t know what voltage it delivers. I know the ad says 12 volts. I believe that is as accurate as a stopped clock is twice a day. Lithium ion batteries at max charged will read 4.25 volts. They drop to 4 volts after only a small amount of their capacity is drained. So I would assume that pack is 3 cell in series. With 3 cells in series when they are ½ depleted each cell will be about 3.75 volts so 3 in series will be 11.25 volts. You can get about 80% of the energy out of the pack before the voltage drops below 10 volts. So how does your detector run on low voltage?
 
03/01/2019 06:35PM
God I’m getting old... I still use my lowerance X4 no color screen , that uses 8 D cell batteries on my canoe trips. Thing has lasted for years, and has put a few fish in the canoe. I just need to know depth, and it runs 12 hours a day for a couple weeks.
 
03/01/2019 06:46PM
MagicPaddler: "flynn: "I've been pointed to the Nocqua 10Ah lithium ion battery pack. It can be charged with a solar charger, has integrated protection, and a nice case. I tried to price out components to build one myself, but after all is said and done, the price is within 10-20% of the Nocqua battery. At only ~1.5lbs it is a pretty tempting proposition, even though it is expensive compared to a bunch of AAs. It'll power a power-hungry fish finder a lot longer than the AA pack as well.



"

I question what that pack is. I don’t know what voltage it delivers. I know the ad says 12 volts. I believe that is as accurate as a stopped clock is twice a day. Lithium ion batteries at max charged will read 4.25 volts. They drop to 4 volts after only a small amount of their capacity is drained. So I would assume that pack is 3 cell in series. With 3 cells in series when they are ½ depleted each cell will be about 3.75 volts so 3 in series will be 11.25 volts. You can get about 80% of the energy out of the pack before the voltage drops below 10 volts. So how does your detector run on low voltage? "


It says 12V yes. I saw a video on YouTube where a guy ran a Garmin Striker 4 (0.23A draw @ 12V according to Garmin) for 30 hours on that battery, with the transducer on. Granted he didn't touch it for 30 hours but that isn't too bad. I didn't see any warnings or complaints on the screen and the guy didn't mention any either.

What would you prefer? I looked at making a LiFePO4 battery pack (typically they deliver their target voltage until they're empty) but the cost is a decent bit higher for the same amount of capacity (unless you go bigger, cost per amp hour goes down), and if I wanted to charge one in the field with a solar panel, I'd have to use a special controller to charge it as well. The LiFePO4 solution was also quite a bit heavier if I recall correctly, around 4lbs for the same capacity.

I also considered doing a LiPo battery pack, as you can get ones made for RC cars/boats/planes in all sorts of voltages, but they have a short shelf life, don't hold their charge very long, and aren't considered as safe as the alternatives.

I considered doing what this guy did, wiring it all up myself with SAE connectors and having an actual meter integrated into the circuit so I can monitor the battery. http://kayakfishing.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14541

Still, the LiFePO4 setup ends up being quite a bit heavier. I could bring 2x Nocqua batteries (for 20Ah) at ~3lbs and come in quite a bit under the 5.4lbs Bioennio 20Ah LiFePO4 battery, and the Nocqua comes with a case, wiring, all that, whereas that extra weight has to be added to the Bioennio setup.

If you wanna test actual runtime between these two setups, I'd be very interested in reading the results. :) Personally I think 25-30 hours on a single charge is decent enough for a color screen and dual mode transducer, especially if I can bring a solar panel and charge it at camp whenever I'm not using it. I don't expect to be using my fish finder all day long even though my upcoming trips are fishing focused. I think I can keep a 10Ah battery topped up long enough for a week-long fishing trip using a 14W solar panel as long as I'm charging it literally any time it's not in the canoe.
 
TheGreatIndoors
distinguished member (125)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/01/2019 08:39PM
Hobbyking.com has a large variety of batteries in the 10-15V range that will power your unit. You can get whatever size you want, or several of them.

Some of the lowrance user manuals tell you the number of mAmps that the unit draws when turned on. You multiple by the number of hours you'd like to use it to determine the number of mAh (millip amp hours) you need. The batteries are listed in mAh units (e.g. how big they are). Just be sure you're getting one with greater than 10V and less than 15V (might want to verify the numbers here).

Battery technology has come a long way since the lead acid battery, so go get yourself a lithium polymer battery and enjoy.
 
MagicPaddler
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03/02/2019 07:51AM
Ya what TheGreatIndoors said with one caveat. If you run those batteries all the way down you destroy them! That is easier to do than you may think because of unbalance in the cells. To not destroy the pack you must continuously monitor the voltage across each cell and stop using the pack when any cell drops below the lower threshold (about 2.7 volts). Hobbyking sell a low voltage alarm. With no readout
With readout and case
With voltage readout and no case
Many of Hobbyking’s batteries come with a JST-xh connector so the low voltage detector plugs into that connector. I use a battery similar to this one with one of the alarms above to run my Dewalt drill.
Everything is a compromise. I use 4 protected 18650 lithium ion in series for my fish detector. Most of the commercial holders will not hold protected cells.
Edit
To safely charge the Lipo batteries charger that balances the charge on all cells and stops before over charging.
 
lundojam
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03/02/2019 08:32AM


I found these on a home security website. They are designed for remote security cameras. Cheap and easy. Holds 8 AA batteries. With a color unit, you'll want to bring a couple sets of batteries. I mount the finder and the holder on a clamp that pops right on the thwart. You can sort of see it in this crappy pic.
There is another clamp on the right lower part of the pic so you can see what I'm saying.
 
joker
member (25)member
 
03/03/2019 12:57PM
I have used the Nocqua 10ah battery that Flynn mentioned. I use it to power my Humminbird Helix 5 and it will last for our week long trip to Quetico. It is completely rubber sealed with waterproof connections. It works great for us... lasts longer than my lead acid battery with one third the weight.
 
zski
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03/04/2019 10:14AM
walllee: "God I’m getting old... I still use my lowerance X4 no color screen , that uses 8 D cell batteries on my canoe trips. Thing has lasted for years, and has put a few fish in the canoe. I just need to know depth, and it runs 12 hours a day for a couple weeks. "ditto. i use the lowrance x4 too but with 8-10 AAs. sometimes lasts a week, sometimes have to swap them out before the week is over. is there benefit to using the D cells over AAs?
 
03/04/2019 10:31AM
zski: "walllee: "God I’m getting old... I still use my lowerance X4 no color screen , that uses 8 D cell batteries on my canoe trips. Thing has lasted for years, and has put a few fish in the canoe. I just need to know depth, and it runs 12 hours a day for a couple weeks. "ditto. i use the lowrance x4 too but with 8-10 AAs. sometimes lasts a week, sometimes have to swap them out before the week is over. is there benefit to using the D cells over AAs? " I doubt if there is any benefit to the bigger batteries. That’s what system came with the unit, never seen a reason to change it.
 
TheGreatIndoors
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03/07/2019 08:09PM
There is also this one from Wilderness Systems.

It has 5V USB outlets to charge your phone, and a recharging plug. It also comes with a 12V cable that can be wired to the fishfinder and an on/off switch. They do mention, however, that some fish finders operate at too high a voltage or current for their battery and give two examples. Your model draws about 250mAmps with the backlight on, which is well within the spec of that battery. The manual only says that their source voltage must be within 10-17V, which I gather is typical of a boat's DC power. So its not clear whether the voltage of your system is too high. I bet they would know if you called them.

The battery is rated at 15 Amp-hours (50% longer lasting than the Noqua suggested by Joker above), which is 60 hours of operation with the backlight on your unit turned on or 75 hours of operation with the backlight turned off.

Having looked through all the parts, charger, balancer, switch, fuse, and connectors needed from Hobby King, the all in one battery seems like a much better deal, even though its more expensive ($125) by about $20 bucks.
 
03/08/2019 03:36PM
TheGreatIndoors: "There is also this one from Wilderness Systems.


It has 5V USB outlets to charge your phone, and a recharging plug. It also comes with a 12V cable that can be wired to the fishfinder and an on/off switch. They do mention, however, that some fish finders operate at too high a voltage or current for their battery and give two examples. Your model draws about 250mAmps with the backlight on, which is well within the spec of that battery. The manual only says that their source voltage must be within 10-17V, which I gather is typical of a boat's DC power. So its not clear whether the voltage of your system is too high. I bet they would know if you called them.

The battery is rated at 15 Amp-hours (50% longer lasting than the Noqua suggested by Joker above), which is 60 hours of operation with the backlight on your unit turned on or 75 hours of operation with the backlight turned off.

Having looked through all the parts, charger, balancer, switch, fuse, and connectors needed from Hobby King, the all in one battery seems like a much better deal, even though its more expensive ($125) by about $20 bucks."


Holy smokes! That is a great deal! AND it's light too, only 14oz!?! Um...... yes please. I might have to get that. Thank you so much for linking it!
 
joker
member (25)member
 
03/09/2019 09:59AM
Any one want to buy a used Nocqua 10ah lithium battery???
 
Mad_Angler
distinguished member(1606)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/09/2019 03:07PM
TheGreatIndoors: "There is also this one from Wilderness Systems.

...
"


Wow. That one looks perfect.

15 AH would keep my cell phone charged for a really long time too...
 
arnesr
senior member (96)senior membersenior member
 
03/11/2019 09:50AM
Here is the LiFePO4 battery that I use:

All-Battery.com

It's a bit pricey and it almost seems hard to justify spending more on the battery than I spent on my fish finder, but I've had this battery 5 years now and I think I made the right choice. There might be cheaper options for a similar battery, but when I bought mine All-battery had sent me a discount code, so it might be worth signing up for their newsletter. This battery is the same size of the battery I use in my ice fishing vexliar unit, but since it is Lithium, it's only 2.67lbs. I like that it is sealed, but I still keep it in a Lock & Lock container and have found the HPL820 biscuit container to be the perfect size. I have tested the battery running my color unit with the transducer in a bucket of water for four days straight and it was still going. I'm not really sure how long I could run, but decided that was more than I would use on a week long trip.

I used to use 10AA's in a battery holder, but I always seemed to run out of juice during the week even with a spare set of batteries along. Once I was out of juice my fish finder became dead weight. This set up works well for me and is very simple, I just charge the battery with the included charger and go. My fish finder has not become dead weight since I made the switch!
 
Moonman
distinguished member(841)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/18/2019 10:17AM
I purchased the wilderness systems lithium battery last fall and it works as advertised. I have made several AA battery packs for myself and friends and they work fine, especially if you use 10 instead of 8 AA’s, but this thing is awesome. I have used it for ice fishing with my finder all winter and while my finder has a very low current draw, it is still showing all 5 bars of power capacity. It really is 14oz, measured on my own digital scale, very small at 1 7/8” x 2 7/8” x 4 1/4”, and 15 AH is incredible, 6 times more power than from a AA battery pack (2.5AH).

I read everything about them and all other alternatives before buying, the only possible downside I read about was that some of the batteries turning off suddenly on occasion when a finder etc was turned on. I have not seen this at all, after many hours use, but I asked about it when I bought it and the store did say they had one return for that reason (which was warranted by the manufacturer and new unit shipped out).

To me if you are spending several days in the woods fishing with a finder where weight/portaging is a factor, it’s a must buy.

Moonman
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
03/21/2019 02:01PM
I'm almost pulling the trigger on this Wilderness Systems battery pack but my only confusion is, how do you recharge this unit out in the wilderness? At least with the AA packs, you just bring spare AAs. Can you replace the batteries with some after it runs out?

With that said, what would be a good solar charger? I bought an Apollo Pro 23000mAh years years ago and it has since died out. Any recommendations for newer technology that is powerful and light?

I guess ultimately, I am on the fence in buying a fish finder for my next trip in June. Like the Lithium battery above, I'm on the fence with the Garmin Striker 4. I dont want to deal w/ cables all over the place and getting a suction cup to stick to a kevlar canoe seems like an effort in frustration. Are there any complete buyer/setup guides? The search functionality on this site has a lot to be desired...

Thanks!
 
analyzer
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03/21/2019 11:31PM
Did this for my battery pack, kinda wish I went with a 10 pack though.







Pretty simple. You can pick up the PVC, pre-threaded from any home depot or similar big box store. The battery pack from something like a Radio Shack/electronics store.



then I have U bolts, that go around the pvc, where it's a little narrower, and up on either side of the cross member, through holes in the base of my depth finder, and then wing nut it together.

So the depth finder is on the top side, and the battery pack is on the bottom side, with 2 U bolts holding it all together.
 
AmarilloJim
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03/22/2019 09:23AM
PAR: "I'm almost pulling the trigger on this Wilderness Systems battery pack but my only confusion is, how do you recharge this unit out in the wilderness? At least with the AA packs, you just bring spare AAs. Can you replace the batteries with some after it runs out?


With that said, what would be a good solar charger? I bought an Apollo Pro 23000mAh years years ago and it has since died out. Any recommendations for newer technology that is powerful and light?


I guess ultimately, I am on the fence in buying a fish finder for my next trip in June. Like the Lithium battery above, I'm on the fence with the Garmin Striker 4. I dont want to deal w/ cables all over the place and getting a suction cup to stick to a kevlar canoe seems like an effort in frustration. Are there any complete buyer/setup guides? The search functionality on this site has a lot to be desired...


Thanks!"

I've never had any issues with a suction cup. You can always wrap your extra cordage around the base of your sonar unit.
 
buzz17
distinguished member (274)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/22/2019 01:18PM
I have an X67C and have taken it on more than a dozen trips. Depending on where I go I will bring the ice ducer, but mostly just the suction ducer which works great. No lie, this unit eats batteries. I have tried lithium, rechargeable, basic....everything. I have settled on bringing 3 sets (8 AA each) on a given trip. I go with premium alkaline because they last the longest. The last few years I have done 4 day trips and 2 sets would suffice. We fish at least 24 hours total for 2 sets with the unit on almost all the time. I love this unit and will gladly pack extra batteries!
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
03/22/2019 10:00PM
analyzer: "Did this for my battery pack, kinda wish I went with a 10 pack though.











Pretty simple. You can pick up the PVC, pre-threaded from any home depot or similar big box store. The battery pack from something like a Radio Shack/electronics store.



then I have U bolts, that go around the pvc, where it's a little narrower, and up on either side of the cross member, through holes in the base of my depth finder, and then wing nut it together.

So the depth finder is on the top side, and the battery pack is on the bottom side, with 2 U bolts holding it all together.
"


Hey that's pretty sweet! And probably much cheaper than that other option lol. Would getting a 10 pack cause too much draw in the equipment hooked up to it? Been a very long time since I've done any electrical thinking... Would something like this work? https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Holder-10-Aa/dp/B00AZTUI7Q

Has anyone tried that Dragonfly 4 Pro (https://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-Dragonfly-Finder-Navionics-Transducer/dp/B00TX536KE/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0Y2NCGZTSSDSZXC8RH57)? It looks fancy but I know nothing about Raymarine stuff. What I do now is my time w/ a Lowrance HDS GenII. Awesome unit but if the sun hit it just right it was hard to read. This Dragonfly looks like it could heat up pretty easily as well as have a glare.
 
MagicPaddler
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03/23/2019 06:34AM
Par
If you are using alkaline batteries that would be a good holder and you will get much better battery life with 10 batteries than 8. It should be in in something to keep it dry when it rains. People who remove the fish detector for portaging usually like this type of holder. A system where the detector stays in the canoe the link below has a couple of holders.
DIY Battery Holder
Don’t know anything about that detector.
 
MagicPaddler
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03/23/2019 06:54AM
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
03/23/2019 08:38AM
MagicPaddler: " This thread discusses 8 verses 10 batteries and alkaline verses ultra-lithium and best brands. "

This is great information thanks so much! I am torn now though.
@MagicPaddler, you said in that other thread:
"A set of 8 Energizer ultimate lithium batteries will run your fish detector longer than a set of 10 alkaline batteries."
Other than price, why would you go alkaline?
@Analyzer, you say you wish you would have done 10. Is that because you don't use lithium batteries? Why not?

I've always made the bad habit of bringing too much stuff. If I could bring 4 less batteries that will allow me to bring more stuff! :)

I think I am going to go for that Garmin Striker 4. One thing I remember on my past BW trips is I really dont want to worry about something getting beat up and while that Dragonfly is pretty, it'll probably get beat up.
 
buzz17
distinguished member (274)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2019 12:57PM
Mad_Angler

As another X67C Ice Machine user... use premium alkaline batteries. I have the portable unit with 8AA batteries. I have tried lithium, rechargeable, every kind of possibilites to eliminate weight. The best option for this unit is premium alkaline, whatever your brand preferrence. I take 2 to 3 sets of batteries depending on the length of trip. I love this unit...the power supply is secondary.
 
MagicPaddler
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03/23/2019 04:54PM
Par
The lightest AA battery setup is ultimate Lithium batteries. The least expensive per hour of operation is with 10 alkaline batteries.
Buzz
I am not familiar with that brand (Premium Alkaline.) That is a joke laugh now.
From my data power available in the 10 to 18 volt range.
10 Duracell 1900mah
10 Duracell Quantum 2400mAh
10 Ikea AA 2300mAh
8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium 3100mah
Data is available at
THIS thread.
 
MagicPaddler
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03/23/2019 08:39PM
To compare with 8 batteries with an output in the 10 to 13 volt range
8 Duracell 800mAh
8 Duracell Quantum 900mAh
8 Ikea 850 mAh.
If you run the detector till it shuts off you will use more of the energy out of the battery but it will be a low voltage. That is what I did for a long time and I found that although the detector seem to be working it was not working well. Sometimes it can’t find the bottom and can’t find fish.
 
buzz17
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03/24/2019 03:33AM
MagicPaddler

Funny. IMO and experience, alkaline batteries last longer than any other option in an X67C. As far as "premium" goes, I mean don't use Dollar General brand, use Duracell, Energizer, Rayovac, etc. My portable case takes 8 AA batteries so that is what I am used to. Good for you if you want to modify your power source, and the information you provided is fantastic.

Mad_Angler

As a fellow X67C Ice machine user, enjoy the unit...I think it is a great fish finder! Like I mentioned, I have used it on more than a dozen BWCA trips using the portable case with an 8AA power source. I have found alkaline batteries to last the longest. If you find a longer lasting power source please let me know!

Buzz
 
MagicPaddler
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03/24/2019 06:09AM
For alkaline batteries Ikea batteries are one of the best and one of the least expensive. Ikea batteries
 
buzz17
distinguished member (274)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/24/2019 06:15AM
I use Ikea batteries at home and can verify they are very good. I have never used them in my fish finder.
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
04/11/2019 04:40PM
Alright, well I ended up buying the Garmin Striker Plus 4cv along with their Portable Fishing Kit (i.e. the carrying bag).

It's all pretty slick but holy cow that battery they give you in the portable kit would piss off my BWCA buddies such that I think they'd try and throw it in the lake on the first portage. It's literally an anchor.

I tried finding the specifics for this unit on exact power draw but alas, its almost impossible to find. With regards to our discussion above, would the 10 power pack of AA batteries work with just splicing it into the power wires?

Thanks much guys!

PAR
 
MagicPaddler
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04/11/2019 05:46PM
Par
You should be able to disconnect the battery it came with and connect 10 alkaline batteries in series to replace it. Someone once told me how much one of the fish detectors with the built in GPS draws. It was a power hog. I would think it would not draw more than my detector plus what my hand held GPS draws but that is not what he said. So when you get it running on AA batteries I would like to know how long it runs on a set of 10 AA batteries and the brand of batteries. If you are in northern Illinois I would come and hook up my meter and measure it.
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
04/12/2019 08:07AM
Thanks Paddler, I'll try that.

I would have taken you up a couple years ago but I'm now down in Raleigh :)

Going to the OBX this next week and want to try it there, if I can get a power pack before we leave I'll let you know how long it takes to drain the batteries.

PAR
 
PAR
member (6)member
 
04/12/2019 12:17PM
So, please excuse my ignorance (hence why I'm asking the question) but why are all solutions using AA batteries? Could this be done w/ AAA batteries, the good 'ol rectangular 9V (I guess 18V would be too much?) or heck even say 5 x 3V CR2032 batteries?

Just curious :)
 
tonyyarusso
distinguished member(1334)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/12/2019 12:52PM
The ice fishing crowd seems to prefer the Dakota Lithium batteries, which are a drop-in replacement for the stock lead-acids to fit in OEM shuttles.
 
MagicPaddler
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04/12/2019 02:48PM
Par
You can get the voltage from the batteries you mentioned but they have much less capacity so they would last much less time.
Tonyyarusso
There are several rechargeable batteries. The battery you suggested are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4). That battery is lighter for the power it supplies compared to the Led acid batteries of old. For rechargeable batteries for portable devices I prefer Lithium Ion which includes Lithium Polymer (Lioiky). For example
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-5000mah-3s-20c-lipo-pack-xt-90.html
This battery is a 3 cell (3 cell means 8.1 to 12.7 volts and is called a 11.1 volt battery). If you stop using this battery when its voltage has dropped to 10 volts you will have used 86% of its power. It is a 5000mAh battery and 86%of that is 4334mAh. It weighs 360g (12.7 ounces) or 341mAh/ounce. The Dakota battery is 10,000mAh and weighs 46 ounces or 217mAh/ounce. Both batteries require charge and discharge protection. I use one of these batteries on a Dewalt drill and prevent over discharge with a adjustable alarm.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-lipo-voltage-checker-2s-8s.html
if you set the alarm to sound when any cell goes below 3.3 volts it will sound when the battery is at 9.9 volts. I charge my batteries with a charger that they do not sell any more but it is similar to this one.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/imax-b6-ac-dc-charger-5a-50w-with-us-plug-copy.html
The charger is a little complicated to set up but it remembers several battery types and is easier after the first time.
 
04/30/2019 11:10AM
That 15Ah Wilderness Systems battery is bogus. I bought one and am returning it. On the bottom of the unit itself, it says 15000mAh, 55.5Wh. If you do the math for 55.5Wh, at 12V, it's only 4.625Ah. 15000mAh and 55.5Wh breaks down to 3.7V. It is a nice looking unit but the advertisement is misleading. They don't say 55.5Wh ANYWHERE on their website and even the documentation the battery comes with doesn't say it. Thankfully it's printed directly on the battery itself so I don't have to take it apart. My Garmin Striker 4 ran for about 18 hours on the dot using 200kHz CHIRP and 70% screen brightness. If I assume power draw to be what Garmin states (0.23Ah) then that comes out to 4.14Ah, close to what the math says for 55.5Wh and 12V.

Buy the Nocqua 10Ah pack if you are in the market for a lithium ion battery for your fish finder. I just got one and it's giving me about 26 hours with 200kHz CHIRP and 70% screen brightness on my Striker 4. It's not nearly as much capacity as it should be though. For 26 hours @ 0.23A draw, that's 5.98Ah. Still, it's 50% more runtime than the Wilderness Systems battery and it should be enough for me. It is also possible that, because I'm using the transducer inside and it's not getting good pings back, it's using more power than it normally would. I hope to get more juice out of it in the field, but still I think it should be enough power for me.
 
Gopher02
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04/30/2019 11:18AM
Walllee I do the same thing. I always get worried about the D cell batteries dying on me. You're saying the batteries last for you for a long while? Multiple hours per day for a 5 or 6 day trip?
 
MagicPaddler
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04/30/2019 01:23PM
Flynn
Most of the lithium ion (li) battery packs that are called 12 volt are 3 cells in series. Li cells fully charged are 4.2 volts. So 3 in series is 12.6 volts. When the rated mAh have been removed from a fully charged li battery it will be at 2.7 volts. So 3 in series will be 8.1 volts. Your detector most likely operates properly on voltages between 10 and 18 volts. Your detector may not work properly or shut off when the voltage is low. When about 86% of the batteries mAh have been used the battery will be down to about 10 volts. The above should be true for both the Wilderness system and the Nocqua batteries.
The following calculation are incorrect but it is what battery sellers do.
Note that if you take your mAh (4626) for the Wilderness system and multiply it by the number of cells in series (3) you get near what they claim for capacity.
 
AmarilloJim
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04/30/2019 01:26PM
Have any of you calculated current draw at different ping speeds? Does it make any difference?
 
04/30/2019 01:32PM
MagicPaddler: "Flynn
Most of the lithium ion (li) battery packs that are called 12 volt are 3 cells in series. Li cells fully charged are 4.2 volts. So 3 in series is 12.6 volts. When the rated mAh have been removed from a fully charged li battery it will be at 2.7 volts. So 3 in series will be 8.1 volts. Your detector most likely operates properly on voltages between 10 and 18 volts. Your detector may not work properly or shut off when the voltage is low. When about 86% of the batteries mAh have been used the battery will be down to about 10 volts. The above should be true for both the Wilderness system and the Nocqua batteries.
The following calculation are incorrect but it is what battery sellers do.
Note that if you take your mAh (4626) for the Wilderness system and multiply it by the number of cells in series (3) you get near what they claim for capacity.
"


My Striker 4 depends on a 12V power supply like basically every other fish finder. It gives a voltage alarm at 11.2V and I suspect it shuts off or the battery runs out shortly thereafter. One thing to note is that the Wilderness Systems battery delivered 12.4 to 12.3V consistently until it died, whereas the Nocqua battery dropped slowly from 12.8V to 11.2V until the voltage alarm. Since the voltage never dropped with the Wilderness Systems battery, there was no alarm, so the only way to know it was about to die was the indicator lights on the housing, 1 of 5 lights, blinking.

If you take the Wh (55.5Wh) for the Wilderness Systems battery, at 12V, it cannot provide more than 4.625Ah, regardless of what you'd expect to see from completely drained batteries, if we are to believe 55.5Wh (which does not concern itself with current or voltage). If you apply this same principle to the Nocqua battery, then I'd expect it to be advertised at ~22.5Ah (it has 50% more capacity than the Wilderness Systems battery based on actual tests). Instead it's rated at 10Ah (@12V, they are specific about that). What should we believe?

If you Google "15000mAh 55.5Wh" you will find a bunch of batteries and power packs with this spec. Some have a similar form factor to the Wilderness Systems battery, some seem slimmer. I think, though, that the Wilderness Systems OEM either doesn't know what the capacity really is @12V, or someone does know, but they deliberately advertise it at 15Ah to fool consumers. The Nocqua battery is 50% more weight than the Wilderness Systems battery, and lo and behold, it gives 50% more capacity too, yet it's rated at 2/3 the capacity of the Wilderness Systems battery. So... false advertising is how I'm treating it.
 
MagicPaddler
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04/30/2019 01:44PM
AmarilloJim: "Have any of you calculated current draw at different ping speeds? Does it make any difference?"
I measured current at different ping speed and lower light levels and found it made the detector much less useful. It did not reduce the current as much as it reduced its usefulness.
EDIT

Flynn
I think you got it. I have bought several batteries form HobbyKing and they have lived up to stated specks
 
zika
senior member (87)senior membersenior member
 
05/02/2019 10:01AM
Have any of you tested the performance of the Lithium-polymer Weego batteries. It is the battery that App engineers at Vexilar are recommending this year as a battery source for the SP200 and the smart phone battery charge source. Weego published Battery Capacity specifications??? The following output 12 V and 5V usb output to charge smart phone:

Model 22, 20Wh, $68, 0.65 lb, 6.25" x 3.175" x .75", Max Input: 5V/3A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A, Max Output: 5V or 9V/2.4A
Model 44.1, 41Wh, $96, 1.5 lb, 6.5" x 3.4" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/1A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2100A/440A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Model 66.1, 61Wh, $128, 2.5 lb, 9.2" x 3.2" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2500A/600A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Without 5V USB Out to charge smart phone
Model 22S, 20Wh, $56, 0.65 lb, 5.5? x 3? x .675?, Max Input: 5V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A,
Weego Battery
 
MagicPaddler
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05/02/2019 12:11PM
zika: "Have any of you tested the performance of the Lithium-polymer Weego batteries. It is the battery that App engineers at Vexilar are recommending this year as a battery source for the SP200 and the smart phone battery charge source. Weego published Battery Capacity specifications??? The following output 12 V and 5V usb output to charge smart phone:

Model 22, 20Wh, $68, 0.65 lb, 6.25" x 3.175" x .75", Max Input: 5V/3A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A, Max Output: 5V or 9V/2.4A
Model 44.1, 41Wh, $96, 1.5 lb, 6.5" x 3.4" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/1A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2100A/440A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Model 66.1, 61Wh, $128, 2.5 lb, 9.2" x 3.2" x 1.5", Max Input: 15V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:2500A/600A, Max Output: 5, 9, 12V/2.4A, 12V/10A, 19V/3.5A
Without 5V USB Out to charge smart phone
Model 22S, 20Wh, $56, 0.65 lb, 5.5? x 3? x .675?, Max Input: 5V/2A, Volts:12V
Peak/Cranking Current:1700A/300A,
Weego Battery "

If you can believe the ad it has 66Wh so at 12 volts that would be 5500mAh. That would be enough to run a 230mA color detector for about 24 hours.
 
zika
senior member (87)senior membersenior member
 
05/02/2019 08:53PM
Yeah. The Weego not the Best Buy for joules of energy. I like your hobby source for li batteries or 10 alkalines Ikea in series approach.. The SP200 sonar box draws 125 to 150 ma at 15 to 9 volts. Alkalines are made for this low current draw as long as they are not cold. Discharge the alkalines from 15V to 12 volts and get 15 aHrs of energy out of the pack for $20. It's the way to go. Minnesota winter cold would decrease energy capacity more than 50%. I am going to series up several sets of 10 alkaline batteries, pot them in eboxy and throw them into the Duluth pack. Pack em out when they run dow to 12 V. Nothing left when each alkaline cell reaches 1.2v. 1.2v x 10 = 12v.
 
MagicPaddler
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05/02/2019 09:40PM
zika: "Yeah. The Weego not the Best Buy for joules of energy. I like your hobby source for li batteries or 10 alkalines Ikea in series approach.. The SP200 sonar box draws 125 to 150 ma at 15 to 9 volts. Alkalines are made for this low current draw as long as they are not cold. Discharge the alkalines from 15V to 12 volts and get 15 aHrs of energy out of the pack for $20. It's the way to go. Minnesota winter cold would decrease energy capacity more than 50%. I am going to series up several sets of 10 alkaline batteries, pot them in eboxy and throw them into the Duluth pack. Pack em out when they run dow to 12 V. Nothing left when each alkaline cell reaches 1.2v. 1.2v x 10 = 12v."
Battery holder for 8 or 10 AA.
Best AA for the buck is Ikea. Other good alkaline batteries are Duracell and Kirkland.
 
zika
senior member (87)senior membersenior member
 
05/03/2019 10:18AM
Thx Magic. Your research on lo-k-tor battery directly related to canoe trips is very valuable to many of us. AA holder looks like the easiest and can replace batts as they get low. Note: my previous reference to to a 15 AHr alkaline pack was for D cells at 20 deg C at a 25 to 140 mA draw such as Vexilar SP200. Lo-k-tors that draw up around 250 to 350 mA will not realize a 15AHr performance from a Alkaline D cell battery pack. 15AHr D cell Alkaline ratings/specification is at low current draw. As you have said before Li batteries love to deliver higher currents at sub zero temperatures. Li battery technology has been very exciting to watch the last few years and is amazing for alot of energy at so much less weight. Thx for all your battery posts. Has really helped me.
 
zika
senior member (87)senior membersenior member
 
05/24/2019 10:58AM
MagicPaddler: "Ya what TheGreatIndoors said with one caveat. If you run those batteries all the way down you destroy them! That is easier to do than you may think because of unbalance in the cells. To not destroy the pack you must continuously monitor the voltage across each cell and stop using the pack when any cell drops below the lower threshold (about 2.7 volts). Hobbyking sell a low voltage alarm. With no readout
With readout and case
With voltage readout and no case
Many of Hobbyking’s batteries come with a JST-xh connector so the low voltage detector plugs into that connector. I use a battery similar to this one with one of the alarms above to run my Dewalt drill.
Everything is a compromise. I use 4 protected 18650 lithium ion in series for my fish detector. Most of the commercial holders will not hold protected cells.


Edit
To safely charge the Lipo batteries charger that balances the charge on all cells and stops before over charging.
"
18650 Button Battery Holder

Battery Holders sold at Digikey=


Magic Paddler: Holder for 18650 button cells. Button cell 2.72" long.
Drawing of Holder
 
countrybois
member (41)member
 
08/13/2019 12:50PM
I am about to try this for my battery pack. Jump starter

Anyone tried one? For just over a pound and theoretically 18000 vs ~3500 mAh.

 
MagicPaddler
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08/13/2019 03:30PM
Their technical numbers don’t make sense. 800A * 12 V does not equal 66.6W. The Beatit web site has even less data. With the lightest batteries on the market today you cant get that much power in that weight of a package there for the add is lying to you.
 
TechnoScout
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08/15/2019 09:41AM
I did not read every post on this thread (I think there are over 50).

Here is one approach to getting 12 volts supplying up to 1 amp.
1) Buy this Anker USB power pack
2) Buy this USB to 12V

Modify the power connector coming off the 12V booster.
 
countrybois
member (41)member
 
08/23/2019 10:28AM
Ok, so I decided to go a different route after more research. I am going with AA batteries as my power source and have come up with this to package it in:

The Pelican 1010 mini is a perfect size for both the 8AA and 10AA packs and they are accessible without tools for battery changes in the wilderness.

I may add a small piece of foam if I think it needs to be more secure in there, but I am going to try it as-is first.

 
Reke0402
member (42)member
 
08/23/2019 11:21AM
I just picked up a new Garmin fish finder and after tons and tons of research i decided to go with an Energized outdoors lithium battery, its about 1.5 pounds lighter then standard 12V battery and can fit in a small dry box. When i weighed the cost of AA lithium batteries or even getting really good AA rechargeable the extra weight of the larger battery was worth it to me.
 
MagicPaddler
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08/23/2019 11:25AM
Nice find Countrybois.
This search link will find a post with titled “ light weight rechargeable batteries.”

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Light+weight+rechargeable+batteries.+1%2F20%2F2017+paddle&t=chromentp&ia=web
 
MagicPaddler
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08/23/2019 12:46PM
The battery setup in the above link is 4 18650 batteries which will produce about 3230 mAh. And weigh about 3.23 ounces. It would require a protection holder which weighs about 1.1 ounce. This would need a water resistant box which would weigh about 9 ounces. So for about 13 ounces you would have 3230 mAh and could add an additional 3230 mAh of capacity for another 3.23 ounces.
 
countrybois
member (41)member
 
09/20/2019 10:52AM
countrybois: "Ok, so I decided to go a different route after more research. I am going with AA batteries as my power source and have come up with this to package it in:


The Pelican 1010 mini is a perfect size for both the 8AA and 10AA packs and they are accessible without tools for battery changes in the wilderness.


I may add a small piece of foam if I think it needs to be more secure in there, but I am going to try it as-is first.


"


This setup worked great. 8 Energizer Ultimate Lithiums lasted me 5 days with a Humminbird PiranhaMax 4.
 
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