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bwcadan
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11/19/2019 08:10AM
I read on another post that I could cut 30 minutes off a 90 minute time portage time by doing a leapfrog style method when double portaging to get your stuff to the next lake. How is this possible? I need to learn this. I have wasted much times over the years if it is possible.
 
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arctic
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11/19/2019 08:27AM
Carry your first load halfway across, while your partner carries the whole way.

On the second trip, you carry the entire way, while your partner goes back to the halfway point to get your first load.

The tough part is figuring the halfway point, if you are not aware of how fast you usually portage.

Sometimes the half-way point is NOT the logical place to drop gear and half of the TIME is a better choice.

Ideally, for me, the ideal portaging style for trips up to two weeks is to SINGLE CARRY every portage. Very doable if you travel light.
 
ckelley
member (15)member
 
11/19/2019 08:28AM
The method I learned was if you have 2 packs and a canoe for 2 people. One person takes the canoe all the way across the portage while the other person carries one pack to the midway point of the portage and drops it then walks back to the beginning of the portage to get the second pack. When the person carrying the canoe gets to the end of the portage they go back to the halfway point to get the pack that was dropped there.

If you counted paces correctly to determine the halfway point and each person walks at a similar rate, then they should meet back up at the halfway point. Both people end up walking the distance of the portage twice versus three times when double portaging.
 
BobDobbs
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11/19/2019 08:52AM
the posters above already did a great job of explaining the leapfrog.

The only thing I have to add, is that if it fits your budget, consider upgrading your portage packs and you might find there isn't a need to double portage/leapfrog.

My wife carries the heavy pack, a sealline 120. Probably starts each trip with 70+ pounds. She can't lift the damn thing, but once I help her put it on, she's off like a rocket down the trail.

I take the light pack - a CCS guide, plus the canoe. I probably start off with 50+ pounds. The thing I love about this pack, is that if I configure it correctly, I can get the boat to rest on the pack while I carry, which is definitely less fatiguing.

We can go a mile quite happily like this. On super long portages (like JAP lake) I might have to dump the canoe partway through and go back for it, but then she'll have a snack ready for me when I finally get to the end!
 
11/19/2019 08:54AM
Done right, 1.5 portaging is a beautiful thing - I am convinced it's the way to go, unless, as arctic suggests, you can single-portage.

Last trip we did 1.5's until the final day, when the lighter loads tempted us into singling.
 
ZaraSp00k
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11/19/2019 09:15AM
I'm trying to get away from the commuter mentality when I trip
I take as much time as I damn well please

If I want to race, that's what my Corvette is for
 
riverrunner
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11/19/2019 09:41AM
I agree.

I have slowed way down as the years have passed wish I had done it sooner makes for a much nicer trip.

So much to see, so much to do.

I have done those peddle to the metal trips. Looking back, I should have cut mileage or added time.
 
sedges
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11/19/2019 09:43AM
A true double portage would be an outfit for two in a tandem divided into 4 loads. What you describe as leapfrogging has only three loads. It is certainly an improvement if you can pare your outfit down to three loads, but you can't shorten a four load portage by leapfrogging.

Most people can manage to get down to a three load outfit. My partner is less than swift on the portages due to old injuries and now artificial knees. She carries a bulky light pack with sleeping bags, pads and clothes and makes one trip. I do two trips, one with the canoe and one with a heavy pack, in about the same time she does one.

Finding half way, or any division, is a matter of counting paces. Learn your average pace and figure your distances. Even on real messy terrain the paces average out well enough. At my age, I divide up any portage much over a quarter of a mile.
 
Michwall2
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11/19/2019 10:20AM
Finding the mid-way point - Most portages of any length (Usually over 70 rods?) have a "canoe rest" spot about half way through. It is not the old fashion cross bar, but it is a wide spot in the portage that has a place to set a canoe and a couple of packs. I think the FS creates these in order to cut down on damage to the flora when people put a canoe down just anywhere. Or they are created because people continue to use a spot where it is already happened.
 
arctic
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11/19/2019 10:37AM
ZaraSp00k: "I'm trying to get away from the commuter mentality when I trip
I take as much time as I damn well please. If I want to race, that's what my Corvette is for."

As for "leap-frogging", I think of efficiency more than speed. Why walk a portage three times when you can do it in two, especially if it's buggy or swampy? Less chance of injury as well.
 
Michwall2
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11/19/2019 11:06AM
arctic: "ZaraSp00k: "I'm trying to get away from the commuter mentality when I trip
I take as much time as I damn well please
If I want to race, that's what my Corvette is for"

As for "leap-frogging" I think of efficiency more than speed. Why walk a portage three times when you can do it in two--especially if it's buggy or swampy? Less chance of injury as well.
"


While I try to appreciate each portage for the unique chance to experience what is there, there are portages that I want to go back and walk the whole thing again and others I'd just as soon not.
 
sedges
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11/19/2019 11:14AM
Leapfrogging is simply a method that allows two people to put equal effort into moving three loads across a portage.
 
Chicagored
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11/19/2019 11:26AM
During portages, I sing the 100 bottles of beer song in my head. Its like a mantra and forces me to focus on keeping track of the song, rather than grumbling about the portage. After I do it once or twice at the start of a trip, I use it as a fairly accurate guide to how far I've gone depending on which "bottle" I'm up to. I can use it to determine the half way point easily.

I have to recalculate with every trip. I'm just getting older and slower with the passing years.

m
 
Savage Voyageur
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11/19/2019 12:01PM
Yah, I don’t understand any of this, says the guy who does triple portages. I also find it hard to do this with a group of 6-8 guys. Telling my buddies who goes halfway then all the way with what would be ridiculous.

I’m not going to micromanage a portage. This might work with two people. If it works for you, hey portage on, but not for me. We just haul the stuff over the portage.
 
jwartman59
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11/19/2019 12:19PM
I’m not a watch guy but on longer portages will use my watch to get an idea of how much of the portage I have completed.
 
Grandma L
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11/19/2019 01:14PM
My solution - get a Sherpa service - Grandsons - works great!
 
arctic
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11/19/2019 01:15PM
jwartman59: "I’m not a watch guy but on longer portages will use my watch to get an idea of how much of the portage I have completed. "

I've done that as well on long portages.
 
Northwoodsman
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11/19/2019 01:24PM
Chicagored: "During portages, I sing the 100 bottles of beer song in my head. Its like a mantra and forces me to focus on keeping track of the song, rather than grumbling about the portage. After I do it once or twice at the start of a trip, I use it as a fairly accurate guide to how far I've gone depending on which "bottle" I'm up to. I can use it to determine the half way point easily. "
If I did this, I would be cutting my trip short to go have a beer.
 
Marten
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11/19/2019 02:08PM
I feel that all of the above comments are describing a 1.5 portage and not a leap frog.

To me a leap frog is when I carry a load a third of the way across a portage and go back and haul the second load two thirds of the way across. You have leap frogged past the first load. From the two thirds point you go back and get that first load and carry it to the end. You then go back and get that last load that is most of the way across the portage. No distance is saved but it is much easier on your body and a lot of time is saved because you are not wasting time with hands on knees and sucking wind after pushing yourself too hard. This style will allow you to do longer portages and not ruin your day on the first one. Note that you drop that load and recover as you go back for the other pack. Coming back across the whole portage is more rest time than you need. The trick is to have a lot of shorter rest breaks. With experience you learn how far you want to carry and a watch will aid in dropping that first load. The first drop will seem too soon but remember the next one is twice as long. If you drop packs in the same place you have no rest time.
 
Stumpy
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11/19/2019 06:18PM
one trip it.
 
straighthairedcurly
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11/19/2019 07:23PM
Grandma L: "My solution - get a Sherpa service - Grandsons - works great!"

+1 Hurray for my 16 year old son! He covers a LOT of ground much quicker than me. He often gets to the end and then comes to relieve someone of their load part way through.

We usually try to single portage with the canoe carriers toting a light pack with their canoe. However, we did the leapfrog method when we were bushwhacking the PMA this summer or if we felt lazy. I figure if we don't at least have the option of single portaging, then we are carrying too d*** much stuff.
 
11/19/2019 08:26PM
I right of way thought what Martin said. And like Savage Voyageur micromanaging a group can lead to mutany. I could see an individual canoe in a group doing the 1 1/2 thing with the motivational incentive to get a fishing line wet while the rest are battling the portage. The leap frog method like Martin describes is something I did often to not have my food pack unattended for too long.
 
old_salt
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11/19/2019 09:43PM
If you’re on vacation, what difference does it make? A canoe trip is to get away from the race.

Every portage is different and what makes sense on one portage makes no sense on the next. Each one in the party needs to know what they are responsible for. If someone needs assistance, others need to jump in and help. The party will be no faster than the slowest/weakest person.
 
11/19/2019 11:29PM
Savage Voyageur: "Yah, I don’t understand any of this, says the guy who does triple portages. I also find it hard to do this with a group of 6-8 guys. Telling my buddies who goes halfway then all the way with what would be ridiculous.

I’m not going to micromanage a portage. This might work with two people. If it works for you, hey portage on, but not for me. We just haul the stuff over the portage. "


+1 and the same with old salt
 
Selfsuffi
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11/20/2019 07:35AM
I understand this method of leapfrogging and also the 1.5 trip portage. This is fine if it is a nice portage that is seldom used. I think there would be carnage on the portage if this is done at any of the busier portage near entry points or in areas of high traffic. I just envision a portage with packs and canoes piled up and blocking areas where people pass each other from different directions or in swampy portages taking up a dry spot that others would want to walk in. Just my two cents.

I generally double up on portages because I really do like the walk and to look around and really see what is around me rather than just looking straight down to see where my next step has to go. I just think peoples style of traveling plays into this more than anything. I am not against either method ....well, right up until your pack is in my way. :)
 
11/20/2019 10:02AM
Selfsuffi: "I understand this method of leapfrogging and also the 1.5 trip portage. This is fine if it is a nice portage that is seldom used. I think there would be carnage on the portage if this is done at any of the busier portage near entry points or in areas of high traffic. I just envision a portage with packs and canoes piled up and blocking areas where people pass each other from different directions or in swampy portages taking up a dry spot that others would want to walk in. Just my two cents.

I generally double up on portages because I really do like the walk and to look around and really see what is around me rather than just looking straight down to see where my next step has to go. I just think peoples style of traveling plays into this more than anything. I am not against either method ....well, right up until your pack is in my way. :)"




Whether your stuff is at the beginning, middle or end it’s a matter of placing your stuff anticipating possibly other portagers coming through. I highly dought one or two packs properly placed in a central area is considered carnage. I don’t do it to save time, I do it to keep myself fresh. If time was an issue I’d do a shorter trip. If your carrying carnage? Well you can deal with that!
 
ZaraSp00k
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11/20/2019 10:10AM
Stumpy: "one trip it."

yes, and to save even more time RUN!

another way would be to plan a trip where every portage is very short, or even a pull over

or better yet, no portage, that would really save time spent on portages
 
Banksiana
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11/20/2019 10:15AM
If you are double portaging (each person taking two loaded trips across the portage), leap frogging does not save any time; each person will still have to cover the same distance(it probably adds time since you are picking up and dropping each load more than once).
 
Marten
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11/20/2019 12:09PM
I should probably point out that leap frogging only has an advantage when the portage is too long for you to do without over exerting yourself. When you push yourself to exhaustion your body has fallen behind in its processes. Lactic acid builds in your muscles and feels like lead until it works it way out. Many paddlers can't travel very many hours because of this condition. Rest early and often is my mantra for a full day of enjoyment.
 
treehorn
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11/20/2019 12:32PM
BobDobbs: "
I take the light pack - a CCS guide, plus the canoe. I probably start off with 50+ pounds. The thing I love about this pack, is that if I configure it correctly, I can get the boat to rest on the pack while I carry, which is definitely less fatiguing.


We can go a mile quite happily like this.
"


If you are happily walking a mile portage all the way through with a 50+ pound pack plus a tandem canoe, you are pretty baddass.

I usually start those long portages that way, but too much pressure on my shoulders makes me set the pack down 1/3rd of the way through usually. It's a grind.
 
Tomcat
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11/20/2019 01:41PM
Marten: "I should probably point out that leap frogging only has an advantage when the portage is too long for you to do without over exerting yourself. When you push yourself to exhaustion your body has fallen behind in its processes. Lactic acid builds in your muscles and feels like lead until it works it way out. Many paddlers can't travel very many hours because of this condition. Rest early and often is my mantra for a full day of enjoyment."

+1
 
mcsweem
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11/20/2019 01:42PM
this will solve all your problems, portage help
 
Jackfish
Moderator
 
11/20/2019 02:02PM
mcsweem: "this will solve all your problems, portage help "
LMAO Mike... I'm not sure, but I wonder if the rangers might consider those mechanical devices. :)
 
11/21/2019 09:12AM
ZaraSp00k: "I'm trying to get away from the commuter mentality when I trip
I take as much time as I damn well please


If I want to race, that's what my Corvette is for"


I bring my whole family now, we are fairly slow, the kids like to take in the sites, we bring more stuff, kids can’t carry as much as an adult...great trips. But before that my wife and I traveled much like Bobdobbs and singled it...really enjoyed that too...I mean at best you are traveling between 2-3 MPH down the portage. Try that the next time you”commute” and tell me what you missed by going so fast? Commuter mentality? Makes no sense to me...

To the original poster, I have always thought of leap frogging as how Marten describes it. Not sure if it saves time but you are making progress without too much fatigue.

All of the methods mentioned have their merits though.

T
 
scat
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11/21/2019 08:09PM
It is an interesting idea to split three loads between two people equally. I’ll have to remember this. I have always been the one humping that third load.
 
11/22/2019 04:13AM
Jackfish: "mcsweem: "this will solve all your problems, portage help "
LMAO Mike... I'm not sure, but I wonder if the rangers might consider those mechanical devices. :)"

Now a days, they're the only “kids” you can get to work! But for $275 that’s a ram good deal.
 
BobDobbs
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11/22/2019 11:54AM
treehorn: "BobDobbs: "
I take the light pack - a CCS guide, plus the canoe. I probably start off with 50+ pounds. The thing I love about this pack, is that if I configure it correctly, I can get the boat to rest on the pack while I carry, which is definitely less fatiguing.



We can go a mile quite happily like this.
"



If you are happily walking a mile portage all the way through with a 50+ pound pack plus a tandem canoe, you are pretty baddass.


I usually start those long portages that way, but too much pressure on my shoulders makes me set the pack down 1/3rd of the way through usually. It's a grind."


We're young (by the standards of this board), LOL.

Even if you have to dump a canoe/pack partway down the portage, you're still saving an awful lot of time compared to going all the way back to the beginning to get it.
 
firemedic5586
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11/28/2019 01:47AM
ost
 
Bearpath9
senior member (78)senior membersenior member
 
11/28/2019 09:11AM
ZaraSp00k: "I'm trying to get away from the commuter mentality when I trip
I take as much time as I damn well please


If I want to race, that's what my Corvette is for"


I agree. I don't go up there to rush around, I go to relax, and enjoy the wilderness. I suppose I could borrow my son's Viper if I wanted to race, but even that doesn't appeal to me much. It will take me as long as it takes me.
 
11/28/2019 10:39AM
nctry: "Jackfish: "mcsweem: "this will solve all your problems, portage help "
LMAO Mike... I'm not sure, but I wonder if the rangers might consider those mechanical devices. :)"

Now a days, they're the only “kids” you can get to work! But for $275 that’s a ram good deal."


Man, those are some baaaaaa -d puns, Ben. Really got my goat.
 
11/28/2019 11:33AM
llamas.
 
11/28/2019 02:42PM
rtallent: "nctry: "Jackfish: "mcsweem: "this will solve all your problems, portage help "
LMAO Mike... I'm not sure, but I wonder if the rangers might consider those mechanical devices. :)"

Now a days, they're the only “kids” you can get to work! But for $275 that’s a ram good deal."



Man, those are some baaaaaa -d puns, Ben. Really got my goat."

:)
Don't you guys start butting heads now . . . :)
 
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