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tcoeguy
senior member (85)senior membersenior member
 
02/19/2020 09:26AM
For 10+ years, I have exclusively used Power Pro braided line for all my fishing rods. I love that it doesn't bind up, it casts smooth, and if you hook a tough weed or underwater tree, you can just pull for all you're worth and not worry about it breaking.

There are however downsides to it. They are pain to change out lures because of the palomar knot that's required. So I use a swivel for quick lure change.

I have seen a problem with this lately though. The last couple years I have been using a lot more swim baits. The ones with the paddle tails, such as the Storm swim baits or the 360GT. But I have noticed that those baits don't swim well using the swivel. I see a lot of sideways or improper swimming. My guess is that these are designed for a direct tie to the bait. I could be wrong???

So I looking for solutions to this problem. Do I need to start using a different fishing line, such as fluorocarbon, and direct tying my lures? Or is there another quick change solution other than using a swivel?

I would love some feedback. Thanks!!
 
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moustachesteve
member (48)member
 
02/19/2020 09:57AM
Do you need to use a palomar knot? I use clinch knots with braid without issue, only using a palomar if tying something inline such as a dropshot hook.

If you suspect that the snap swivel is affecting your action, why not run braid > swivel > mono or fluoro leader > lure? That way you get the benefits of the swivel and no snap to affect action.
 
tcoeguy
senior member (85)senior membersenior member
 
02/19/2020 10:34AM
Based on what trusted people have told me, I have only used palomar knots for Power Pro line. After your suggestion, I googled using clinch knots with braided line and results were mixed. Some say it works just fine and some say to never use a clinch knot with braided line.

Has anyone else noticed improper swimming using swivels? Any remedy? Is direct tying the way to go?
 
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(2028)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/19/2020 10:55AM
I never worry about a snap with jigs. Takes about 20 seconds to tie a Palomar.
 
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(2028)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/19/2020 10:56AM
tcoeguy: "Based on what trusted people have told me, I have only used palomar knots for Power Pro line. After your suggestion, I googled using clinch knots with braided line and results were mixed. Some say it works just fine and some say to never use a clinch knot with braided line.


Has anyone else noticed improper swimming using swivels? Any remedy? Is direct tying the way to go?"

Depends on the line diameter. Thinner than probably 15 or 20 pound should need a Palomar. You may need a few extra wraps in your clinch.
 
tcoeguy
senior member (85)senior membersenior member
 
02/19/2020 11:17AM
AmarilloJim: "I never worry about a snap with jigs. Takes about 20 seconds to tie a Palomar."

AmarilloJim-

Tying a palomar knot is fairly quick and easy when it is a single hook or small jig. But direct tying using a palomar with a larger lure (5" swimbait, crankbait, topwater, etc) seems cumbersome, because don't you have to slide the bait through loop? Or am I tying wrong?
 
mutz
distinguished member(1155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/19/2020 12:20PM
When I use braid, I almost always run a good ball bearing swivel (no snap) with mono on to the terminal tackle.
 
moustachesteve
member (48)member
 
02/19/2020 12:56PM
I can only speak from my own experience but from a line diameter point of view I've had no issues using clinch knots at all. For open water summer applications I don't see why you'd use less than 15-20lb braid anyway since its equivalent line diameter is something like 6lb mono and you avoid line-shy issues by using the leader after the swivel.

I use the same setup of braid > swivel > leader with super small diameter 2-8lb braid for ice fishing and clinch knots have not failed me yet, even with angel-hair diameter Clam Frost Ice braid. Granted I'm not fishing anything bigger than walleye/bass using these small diameters in this application. I use heavier setups akin to my summer tackle for lake trout.

Regarding the snap swivel causing issues with action I'm skeptical as well unless the swivel is way oversized compared to the bait. Usually you want the freedom of movement provided by a snap or loop knot to let the plug run uninhibited rather than tying direct. I don't mean to patronize, but have you tried tuning your baits? Perhaps they're simply out of tune.
 
Moonman
distinguished member(868)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/19/2020 01:05PM
I have used power pro since it came out, and fireline for years before that. A clinch knot will work fine, especially an improved clinch knot. However among myself and all my many fishing friends who use braid, I don't know anyone not using a fluoro leader. So many advantages. Use a back to back uni knots to join the braid and fluoro. You can also use mono as mentioned above but can't see any benefit of that except for a bit more expense with fluoro and use of topwater lure (since fluoro sinks). Still I use braid-fluoro for almost all presentations and never any problems at all with many many pluses.

Moonman
 
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(2028)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/19/2020 01:44PM
tcoeguy: "AmarilloJim: "I never worry about a snap with jigs. Takes about 20 seconds to tie a Palomar."

AmarilloJim-

Tying a palomar knot is fairly quick and easy when it is a single hook or small jig. But direct tying using a palomar with a larger lure (5" swimbait, crankbait, topwater, etc) seems cumbersome, because don't you have to slide the bait through loop? Or am I tying wrong? "

If you're using baits that big, just use a snap.
 
tcoeguy
senior member (85)senior membersenior member
 
02/19/2020 03:07PM
moustachesteve: "I can only speak from my own experience but from a line diameter point of view I've had no issues using clinch knots at all. For open water summer applications I don't see why you'd use less than 15-20lb braid anyway since its equivalent line diameter is something like 6lb mono and you avoid line-shy issues by using the leader after the swivel.


I use the same setup of braid > swivel > leader with super small diameter 2-8lb braid for ice fishing and clinch knots have not failed me yet, even with angel-hair diameter Clam Frost Ice braid. Granted I'm not fishing anything bigger than walleye/bass using these small diameters in this application. I use heavier setups akin to my summer tackle for lake trout.


Regarding the snap swivel causing issues with action I'm skeptical as well unless the swivel is way oversized compared to the bait. Usually you want the freedom of movement provided by a snap or loop knot to let the plug run uninhibited rather than tying direct. I don't mean to patronize, but have you tried tuning your baits? Perhaps they're simply out of tune."



You might be on to something with the oversized snap swivel. I am pretty much just self-taught, so I could very well be doing something wrong. It is very possible that I was just using an incorrect type or wrong size of snap swivel. I have mostly seen the issues with small (3 to 4 inch) soft swim baits.

But based on the suggestions from here and others I am going to try a couple new things for 2020. Braided line to swivel to fluoro leader to lure for all soft baits, including the small swim baits I had issues with. And switch to snap for crankbaits.
 
taoeatoat
 
02/22/2020 09:45AM
When braided lines first came out, I just had to try them. Quickly noticed the advantages no stretch line. But after years of using it, I found that this braided line frays easily on sharp rocks that abound in the BWCAW. After loosing too much tackle, I switched back to monofilament, and never have regretted it. Not entirely sure about the swivels though.
 
marc24
distinguished member (123)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/22/2020 10:22AM
I second, third, fourth etc what Moonman wrote. Without a doubt, braid with a double uni knot to flouro as a leader. Exceptional feel, low visibility , and the non-memory of the braid causes way fewer backlashes and birds nests on the reel . I will never go back ( unless they come out with a memory-less flouro lol). Then you can use whatever knot you want on the terminal tackle end. But back to original question, palomar knot is way to go in general for braid, but it can get cumbersome in the wind in a canoe when trying to tie a lure with treble hooks.

Personally, mono only goes on a spool for topwater which I take an interchangeable spool for a spinning reel when I go canoe fishing . One mans opinion of course
 
cyclones30
distinguished member(2054)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/22/2020 01:01PM
I agree with the few comments on the extra twists on the improved clinch knot. It's all I've ever used, no issues with braid. But instead of 6 or 7 wraps, do 8-10 and moisten well. No issues
 
mrballast
senior member (53)senior membersenior member
 
02/22/2020 11:07PM
My set up:
Powerpro superslick, 20lb, 6lb eq.
2ft, 20 lb flouro leader with surgeon knot or barrel swivel.
I tie direct for spinners and soft baits, and snap* for cranks.
Palomar to lures exclusively, because it is easier.

I ONLY use a leader due to pike gill plates. I often get lazy and dont even do that.
To avoid rock frays, retie often and pull off about a foot of tag, if fishing close to bottom.

*snap without swivel when I am swithching lures often.

I may have missed something, but if the only problem with a palomar is lure size, tie to hook or jighead first, then put on the plastic. Also...I use palomar with the big taildancers and such...just a couple more seconds needed. Again, bigger loop, more tag removed, more frays eliminated.
 
thegildedgopher
distinguished member(511)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/24/2020 09:36AM
For me, speaking very generally:

-Jigs get tied direct.
-Spoons and Crankbaits that wobble get just a snap.
-Anything that spins gets snap/swivel combo at the terminal end
-Jigging spoons I'll tie an inline barrel swivel 1-2 feet up to prevent line twist.

I run mostly braid with flour leaders and make that connection with the double uni knot. Almost everything else gets a Palomar. It's just convenient/easy, and works well on both flouro and braid. Don't be afraid to make a BIG loop when you're tying on a long crankbait with trebles. And forget to spit all over that thing before cinching it down.
 
Basspro69
distinguished member(13816)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/29/2020 12:58AM
Trilene xl mono 8 pound problem solved
 
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