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RC
distinguished member (349)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/20/2021 10:56AM  
I know there is already a message thread on about this but that thread got a bit off topic so I thought it might be helpful to start a new thread.
"According to social media posts by government officials, the two countries have agreed to extend the restrictions on non-essential travel at their land borders by another month, lasting until at least March 21."

Border closing extended until March 21 (at least)
 
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billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/20/2021 06:03PM  
I was talking to Bill Swift (Swift Canoes) today and his take from Canada is a ways into 2022.
02/20/2021 06:21PM  
billconner: "I was talking to Bill Swift (Swift Canoes) today and his take from Canada is a ways into 2022."
This pretty much the guess I am getting from Canadian friends.
IowaFishinGuy
senior member (71)senior membersenior member
 
02/22/2021 12:28PM  
I called our outfitter in Sioux Lookout a couple days ago. He said the vaccine situation in Canada is a mess and he doesn’t see the border opening until they can vaccinate the masses. His earliest estimate was early Fall.
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/22/2021 02:07PM  
The current sentiment, which is quite negative, is informing very negative predictions up here.

Don't discount the notion that this virus may just fizzle without warning. The Spanish flu did that in under two years without a vaccine. I doubt anybody in the middle of that plague saw it ending so abruptly.

02/26/2021 10:05AM  
So, it sounds like the prediction is late summer/early fall as the most optimistic and probably the following spring/summer as the more likely. It's pretty much as expected, I guess.
BigDadE
member (20)member
 
02/28/2021 07:51AM  
So does this mean no entering into the Quetico at all or just no camping? Are folks able to day trip fish into Canada?

sedges
distinguished member(696)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/28/2021 09:18AM  
No entry at all. Its not a park regulation it is a border regulation. The border is closed.
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/28/2021 06:35PM  
BigDadE: "So does this mean no entering into the Quetico at all or just no camping? Are folks able to day trip fish into Canada? "
I believe Quetico is open to some day uses so if you're entering from Canada, go for it. Its a guess if it will be open for overnight camping this summer for entering from Canada.
02/28/2021 06:45PM  
After watching a Meet The Press interview this morning with Trudeau I was not encouraged that the border will be opening anytime soon.
RC
distinguished member (349)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/16/2021 07:40PM  
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau waved away suggestions Monday (March 15) that Canada is prepared to explore reopening its shared border with the United States any time soon. Canadian News article
portagedog09
member (25)member
 
03/22/2021 07:14PM  
Is there hope....spring thaw.....some internal and external border pressures? I think there's hope....

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/21/lawmakers-families-anxious-reopening-canada-mexico-borders/4790165001/
03/22/2021 07:56PM  
Border update

Hey Portage Dog, good to have you on this forum. To add a link just click right below the dialogue box on "add a link to this message".
03/22/2021 08:19PM  
Hey PD,

We'll keep hoping but the last projection I saw was for (maybe) 90% vaccination in the US by the Aug 5th....that's with a lot of assumptions on both sides of the border coming true. We'll just all have to continue to be patient. I got my first poke in the arm this weekend so things are progressing here in MN. We're at 25% of population getting at least one shot in the arm.
Wendigo41
member (37)member
 
03/22/2021 08:29PM  
Part of the problem is Canada has only vaccinated less than 2% of its population at just above 600,000.

50,000,000 with 2 jabs in the US or about 15% of the population.

The state of Minnesota has fully vaccinated 50% more people than the whole Country of Canada.

Yet I talked to a guy whos college son is in Cabo Mexico right now with plane loads of kids from Minnesota schools. Hard to figure.

Maybe next year...wait that is what I said last year.
dschult2
senior member (71)senior membersenior member
 
03/23/2021 03:10AM  
To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2021 07:45AM  
dschult2: "To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)"
We won't slash your tires, we'll just jack you up in the Walmart parking lot while you're in getting supplies and steal your tires.
03/23/2021 07:50AM  
goatroti: "dschult2: "To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)"
We won't slash your tires, we'll just jack you up in the Walmart parking lot while you're in getting supplies and steal your tires."


Shouldn't that be in a Canadian Superstore parking lot???

TZ
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2021 10:37AM  
Thanks for the tip. ;)
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4850)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/23/2021 04:17PM  
dschult2: "To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)"

they are having a terrible time controlling the third wave even with the border closed. They wont be vaccinating 60-65s till the end of May.
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2021 05:48PM  
I live in Nova Scotia, 60-65 will get their first shot around April 20. I'm 66, I'll get mine April 12-ish. Where do you get your info?
user0317
distinguished member (348)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2021 08:15PM  
dschult2: "To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)"

But if they slash your tires, you won't be able to leave!
03/23/2021 08:37PM  
They'll just come for your Molson, not your tires.
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/23/2021 09:06PM  
yellowcanoe: "dschult2: "To be honest I don't even know if I want to travel to Canada this year, at least not in my car. I can just see some angry Canadian saying "How dare you Americans come up here and bring us Covid!". And then proceed to slash my tires:-)"


they are having a terrible time controlling the third wave even with the border closed. They wont be vaccinating 60-65s till the end of May.
"


Depends where you live. They are vaccinating 60-64 years of age with the AstraZeneca vaccine around Toronto (at least). Given perceived risks, it is not being offered to anyone older than that.
03/23/2021 11:12PM  
Is there a reason Canada seems to be so slow with implementation? I assume some of it is they are a larger country, spread out...but it still seems way too slow.

I looked up Minnesota’s numbers and Canada’s and we have more people fully vaccinated than the entire country of Canada. That data may be off as MN gives daily updates and I could only find data as of last Friday for Canada, but still it is shocking. Luckily, Canadian’s are laid back...there’d be riots here :) with those results.

From some of the posts I’ve read, they seem to be a little less than three months behind the US, even though the two countries essentially started vaccinations at the same time.
T
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/24/2021 05:31AM  
Vaccine is made in US and not in Canada. We have it, they don't. Pretty simple really.
03/24/2021 08:01AM  
billconner: "Vaccine is made in US and not in Canada. We have it, they don't. Pretty simple really."
They are 40th in the world...many, if not most of the countries that are ahead of them have the same issues. Although I am sure your conjecture has some truth. Has to be more complicated than that...

What’s suspicious is in 30 seconds I can find the vaccination rate of any US state (percentage of vaccines administered per the total amount delivered) I cannot find that data for Canada...maybe someone else can...it just doesn’t seem to be readily available)

According to the BBC the another factor is where Canada decided to buy vaccine.

“ That's partly because the country decided to invest in vaccines from European factories, afraid that the US, under former president Donald Trump, would issue export bans. Instead European factories are struggling with supply and recently it has been the EU that has been threatening those bans.”

There was actually opportunity early on for Canada to purchase vaccines from US factories because Trump failed to order the appropriate amount of doses for the US, but Biden has it all locked up now... right or wrong.

So the issue seems multifactorial. Government errors/bad guesses, more rural population, supply chain, efficiency of delivery? Probably more issues than that...Sucks

T
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/24/2021 08:19AM  
billconner: "Vaccine is made in US and not in Canada. We have it, they don't. Pretty simple really."
That's a bit of an understatement.

You are implying it is natural circumstances which are to blame. If it were, our government wouldn't be assiduously blaming everyone, but themselves. They are, through this behaviour, acknowledging this is a major debacle and simultaneously admitting their own incompetence.
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/24/2021 03:27PM  
I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political.
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/24/2021 03:41PM  
billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why.
Jackfish
Moderator
 
03/24/2021 04:25PM  
billconner: "Feel free to make it political."
Let's not. This has been a good discussion to this point. Let's keep it that way.
03/24/2021 08:11PM  
Another option is US/Biden is sitting on 30 million doses of AstraZeneca...which still hasn’t even applied for approval in the US yet...maybe we can lend it to Canada. It’s already approved there?

T
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/25/2021 06:07AM  
Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political.
03/25/2021 06:49AM  
billconner: "Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political."

That article is an op Ed piece so it would have some bias...but it answers my question better than your answer did. A simplistic...we make the vaccine...doesn’t answer how Canada went on to be the one of the worst industrialized nations in getting vaccinated..

The article linked to is old is actually nicer to Trudeau than the BBC is now. There was no plan in Canada to make vaccines until recently. The Government was lying all along about it. Canada could of ordered from the US but the prime minister’s bias got in the way.

Isn’t it ironic how 2 months ago we were all complaining about the ineptitude of the US on our COVID policy (and it was inept!), how it was potentially holding back the border opening...and now it looks like what will actually hold us all back from being able to enter Canada this year is the ineptitude of THEIR Government. It isn’t funny. It’s frustrating!

The EU just now TODAY put a 6 week vaccine export ban in place...so the vaccine situation in Canada could get a lot worse!

T
cburton103
distinguished member (408)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/25/2021 08:56AM  
timatkn: "billconner: "Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political."


Isn’t it ironic how 2 months ago we were all complaining about the ineptitude of the US on our COVID policy (and it was inept!), how it was potentially holding back the border opening...and now it looks like what will actually hold us all back from being able to enter Canada this year is the ineptitude of THEIR Government. It isn’t funny. It’s frustrating!

T"


I think that has been one of the frustrating things about the last year. Politics and politicians have mattered a lot more in our day to day lives and planning for the future than probably almost anyone anywhere on the political spectrum would like, for better or worse. A great thing about this forum has always been our shared love of paddling, and specifically in Quetico. It’s frustrating when politicians on either/both sides of the border get in the way of that, even when it could be considered beneficial to do so.

The good news is there is a lot of pressure on politicians and various systems to get people vaccinated efficiently and get the worst part of this Covid mess behind us. I’m confident that even if Canada is slower than ideal that the pace will pick up soon. Probably not soon enough for me to enter Quetico at the Boot Lake portage in early June though, unfortunately.
LL Lake Guy
Guest Paddler
 
03/26/2021 12:29PM  
So wouldn't it make sense for CA to open the border to those who can show proof of vaccination?
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/26/2021 06:17PM  
timatkn: "billconner: "Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.

Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political."

That article is an op Ed piece so it would have some bias...but it answers my question better than your answer did. A simplistic...we make the vaccine...doesn’t answer how Canada went on to be the one of the worst industrialized nations in getting vaccinated..

The article linked to is old is actually nicer to Trudeau than the BBC is now. There was no plan in Canada to make vaccines until recently. The Government was lying all along about it. Canada could of ordered from the US but the prime minister’s bias got in the way.

Isn’t it ironic how 2 months ago we were all complaining about the ineptitude of the US on our COVID policy (and it was inept!), how it was potentially holding back the border opening...and now it looks like what will actually hold us all back from being able to enter Canada this year is the ineptitude of THEIR Government. It isn’t funny. It’s frustrating!

The EU just now TODAY put a 6 week vaccine export ban in place...so the vaccine situation in Canada could get a lot worse!

T"


Its true, as the Canada example points out, countries that are more free market oriented have more citizens vaccinated. Vaccination rates
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/26/2021 07:51PM  
:)>
03/26/2021 08:48PM  
billconner: "timatkn: "billconner: "Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.


Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political."

That article is an op Ed piece so it would have some bias...but it answers my question better than your answer did. A simplistic...we make the vaccine...doesn’t answer how Canada went on to be the one of the worst industrialized nations in getting vaccinated..


The article linked to is old is actually nicer to Trudeau than the BBC is now. There was no plan in Canada to make vaccines until recently. The Government was lying all along about it. Canada could of ordered from the US but the prime minister’s bias got in the way.


Isn’t it ironic how 2 months ago we were all complaining about the ineptitude of the US on our COVID policy (and it was inept!), how it was potentially holding back the border opening...and now it looks like what will actually hold us all back from being able to enter Canada this year is the ineptitude of THEIR Government. It isn’t funny. It’s frustrating!


The EU just now TODAY put a 6 week vaccine export ban in place...so the vaccine situation in Canada could get a lot worse!


T"



Its true, as the Canada example points out, countries that are more free market oriented have more citizens vaccinated. Vaccination rates "


Maybe I am missing your point? But nothing you put in your link has anything to do with free market? Once again...multifactorial...complicated why Canada is one of the worst...has nothing to do with them being a free market. Has to do with a Government that since September had lied to it’s citizens that they were developing vaccine production, made very poor purchase decisions based on bias, poor decisions relying on the EU and abandoning US relations, poor roll out of clinic vaccinations, bad medical infrastructure to support vaccinations, poor decisions on vaccinations(they shut down during Holidays...the list goes on... Just saying frustrated. It seems you are making this Political??? It isn’t Political it just plain poor leadership.

As an example one of the arguably worst US Presidents ever IMHO finished with a 34% approval rating...Canada’s Prime Minister is at 36%...That isn’t good company to keep...That isn’t Political it’s a comparison of poor leadership ratings...
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/26/2021 10:30PM  
timatkn: "billconner: "timatkn: "billconner: "Argo: "billconner: "I just stated facts. No implications. Fewer are vaccinated in Canada because they have received less vaccine.



Feel free to make it political."

Which begs the question why. "

The article you linked was basic conservative against liberal. The article made this political."

That article is an op Ed piece so it would have some bias...but it answers my question better than your answer did. A simplistic...we make the vaccine...doesn’t answer how Canada went on to be the one of the worst industrialized nations in getting vaccinated..



The article linked to is old is actually nicer to Trudeau than the BBC is now. There was no plan in Canada to make vaccines until recently. The Government was lying all along about it. Canada could of ordered from the US but the prime minister’s bias got in the way.



Isn’t it ironic how 2 months ago we were all complaining about the ineptitude of the US on our COVID policy (and it was inept!), how it was potentially holding back the border opening...and now it looks like what will actually hold us all back from being able to enter Canada this year is the ineptitude of THEIR Government. It isn’t funny. It’s frustrating!



The EU just now TODAY put a 6 week vaccine export ban in place...so the vaccine situation in Canada could get a lot worse!



T"




Its true, as the Canada example points out, countries that are more free market oriented have more citizens vaccinated. Vaccination rates "



Maybe I am missing your point? But nothing you put in your link has anything to do with free market? Once again...multifactorial...complicated why Canada is one of the worst...has nothing to do with them being a free market. Has to do with a Government that since September had lied to it’s citizens that they were developing vaccine production, made very poor purchase decisions based on bias, poor decisions relying on the EU and abandoning US relations, poor roll out of clinic vaccinations, bad medical infrastructure to support vaccinations, poor decisions on vaccinations(they shut down during Holidays...the list goes on... Just saying frustrated. It seems you are making this Political??? It isn’t Political it just plain poor leadership.

As an example one of the arguably worst US Presidents ever IMHO finished with a 34% approval rating...Canada’s Prime Minister is at 36%...That isn’t good company to keep...That isn’t Political it’s a comparison of poor leadership ratings..."


Tim, you are, by far, missing the primary reason why Canada is at children's table.

Trudeau made his big public announcement about Canada's co-development of a vaccine with the Chinese on May 16. By May 19 the deal fizzled. The Canadian public wasn't made aware of this face-plant until early July. Somewhere inside this period of miasma there was obviously scrambling to try and salvage the deal or make plans to consider alternate arrangements with other pharma companies or both.

So much lost time...
PineKnot
distinguished member(1885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/26/2021 11:15PM  
Well, unfortunately, this thread about border opening has run off the track and become bogged down in political sniping....hey, if you want to want to get into this stuff, there's another site that'll let you air out your skew.....

I would think most of us would agree that we would be careful, if allowed, to take all necessary precautions when it comes to paddling in either country's wilderness.....
BonzSF
member (13)member
 
03/27/2021 12:23AM  
Jackfish: "billconner: "Feel free to make it political."
Let's not. This has been a good discussion to this point. Let's keep it that way."
+1
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/27/2021 05:20AM  
I posted the link to worldwide vaccination rates because someone said they couldn't find them. Not an op ed piece, just some statistics.
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/27/2021 08:01AM  
If you want know when the border opens you should know with whom your dealing. It is central to this discussion - the single most important ingredient in this topic of this thread. Science will move the needle on the timing of the decision to open the border. But politicians will decide that date.

In this entire thread there's been only one other person interested in dissecting the anatomy of the body that will make this decision - and it's not the US government (can we agree on that?). The rest has been, "I think it will be August...I'm guessing 2020...I think Thursday..." a mostly superficial discussion of which I have also participated.

My July 1 date was optimistic as I thought the rate of Americans getting vaccinated would be the trigger. We have nothing to fear from the aliens to the south, right? They've all been cleansed of the plague. Now I see Dr. Fauci - who has already been vaccinated - parading around with two masks and still arguing it's not safe to deviate from your pre-vaccination behaviour and routines. Fauci by the way, I would wager is at least recognisable to most Canadians as Theresa Tam if not more so. He is a the de facto global authority on Covid 19. This thing is going to continue for a lot longer now.
Wendigo41
member (37)member
 
03/27/2021 08:35AM  
The wacko politicians made this political not the people of this forum.

Trump says coronavirus vaccine possible before Nov. 3 This was in August of 2020. Yet some "experts" where saying a vaccine might not come for years. Sure Trump was hoping people would believe he would get us a vaccine from warp speed and vote for him.

On the other hand Kamala Harris says she won’t take it if it has President Trump’s support . Hoping voters would think the Trump vaccine is dangerous and vote for her.

Unfortunately to most people are uninformed and have become lemmings to to the crazy left or right. They will vote for someone because they like him or he is a nice guy, not on policy or past performance.

It seems many feel Orange guy is bad. Prime Minister "Black Face" doesn't like Orange guy.. so Prime Minister Black Face is good.

In all fairness I give the Canadians credit for being able to control its southern border.
03/27/2021 06:13PM  
billconner: "I posted the link to worldwide vaccination rates because someone said they couldn't find them. Not an op ed piece, just some statistics."

No one asked for world wide vaccination rates...you posted it...then made it political with a comment about “free market”...I did ask what Canada’s vaccination rate was, I apologize it wasn’t clear I wanted to know their efficiency...how quickly they got doses out per the amount of vaccinations available. It is a moot point now. They have so little a high rate would be meaningless but I was trying to be nice and rate them on what they were doing with what they had...as I investigated further reading BBC articles is when I started being horrified by their current administrations efforts and folly. I wasn’t trying to be political. I’ll rip on anyone not doing a good job. Rating someone’s performance based on if they’re liberal or conservative is ignorant in my mind. Rate them on results...

I’ll stand by my words...the border opening up sooner or later is up to Canada and how good or bad they manage the pandemic. It won’t be the US holding it back. 4 months ago I would of laughed at that :)


T
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/27/2021 06:52PM  
Why do you use the BBC as a source? The Brits frankly couldn't give a rat's pucker about Canada, and their coverage of Canada is cursory, limited and ultimately useless. I go to BBC news for news about the rest of the world. For coverage of my home and native land they aren't even worth a glance.
03/27/2021 09:34PM  
goatroti: " couldn't give a rat's pucker"

Never heard that phrase, love it! Gonna have to use it soon!
03/27/2021 10:19PM  
goatroti: "Why do you use the BBC as a source? The Brits frankly couldn't give a rat's pucker about Canada, and their coverage of Canada is cursory, limited and ultimately useless. I go to BBC news for news about the rest of the world. For coverage of my home and native land they aren't even worth a glance.
"

So what is your local news saying? I picked the BBC because I have no idea what are legitimate news sources in Canada...So what has the BBC said that is wrong?

It always makes me suspicious that people are biased when they belittle the source but can’t refute the content...

Meanwhile in Minnesota, anyone who wants a vaccine can now get one...

T
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/28/2021 06:53AM  
timatkn: "billconner: "I posted the link to worldwide vaccination rates because someone said they couldn't find them. Not an op ed piece, just some statistics."


No one asked for world wide vaccination rates...you posted it...

T"


I believe you asked above when you posted:

"What’s suspicious is in 30 seconds I can find the vaccination rate of any US state (percentage of vaccines administered per the total amount delivered) I cannot find that data for Canada...maybe someone else can...it just doesn’t seem to be readily available)"

so I posted the link.

I only continued in the direction which you and Argo began, then stopped posting at the request of others. I only replied now because you called me a liar, which as the quote shows, is not so.

Wendigo41
member (37)member
 
03/28/2021 07:23AM  
timatkn: "goatroti: "Why do you use the BBC as a source? The Brits frankly couldn't give a rat's pucker about Canada, and their coverage of Canada is cursory, limited and ultimately useless. I go to BBC news for news about the rest of the world. For coverage of my home and native land they aren't even worth a glance.
"

So what is your local news saying? I picked the BBC because I have no idea what are legitimate news sources in Canada...So what has the BBC said that is wrong?

It always makes me suspicious that people are biased when they belittle the source but can’t refute the content...

T"


In the states the BBC is the closest thing to unbias news, sure it leans to the left. However it is far more neutral then ABC,NBC,CBS,PBS,CNN all leaning to the far left. On the other hand you have FOX on the right.

I also go the the BBC for more of a neutral source of news. Al Jazeera was a good source for world news and unbias coverage however it is hard to find someone that carriers it.

I help run 3 different fly in fishing camps in Ontario and truly hope the border open soon. At this rate it might not be until 2022.
Wendigo41
member (37)member
 
03/28/2021 07:41AM  
goatroti: "Why do you use the BBC as a source? The Brits frankly couldn't give a rat's pucker about Canada, and their coverage of Canada is cursory, limited and ultimately useless. I go to BBC news for news about the rest of the world. For coverage of my home and native land they aren't even worth a glance.
"


Goatroti in your opinion why is Canada's vaccination rate similar to 3rd world countries? Government? Its health care system? Other? I appreciate your thoughts...Eh.

Canadians flying to Florida for COVID-19 vaccines
03/28/2021 09:36AM  
billconner: "timatkn: "billconner: "I posted the link to worldwide vaccination rates because someone said they couldn't find them. Not an op ed piece, just some statistics."



No one asked for world wide vaccination rates...you posted it...


T"



I believe you asked above when you posted:


"What’s suspicious is in 30 seconds I can find the vaccination rate of any US state (percentage of vaccines administered per the total amount delivered) I cannot find that data for Canada...maybe someone else can...it just doesn’t seem to be readily available)"


so I posted the link.


I only continued in the direction which you and Argo began, then stopped posting at the request of others. I only replied now because you called me a liar, which as the quote shows, is not so.


"


So go to the link you posted and tell me the answer to my question you reposted? I’ll save ya the time...you can’t. It is a link to world wide vaccination rates—-which NOBODY asked for. I saw nothing on efficiency of delivery. For that you need to know how many doses were delivered vs. how many administered. If that is in your link I couldn’t find it. In Minnesota, for example, you get weekly if not daily data on this...although I didn’t scour the internet it is much harder to find for our Northern brothers. Also what was the purpose of the comment “free market”? That seems to sound Political? I was actually trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t understand my question...I don’t think you are a liar...it just seems like you are too focused on the politics of right/left. I don’t see this as right/left more as poor management vs good. I’ve obviously pissed you off and for that I am truly sorry. We all want the border to open, we all want to go back to Quetico...we all want the same thing. I am just frustrated it is looking like we will go another season with no border opening.

T
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/28/2021 10:23AM  
Tim, This is a procurement issue. That is the job of the federal government. The same people that will decide when the border opens.

Like every US state, each province has their own delivery system. There is no single answer as to how that is going in Canada because every provincial government is unique. There have been some issues in Ontario regarding the management of this file but the real issue is the procurement of vaccine.

03/28/2021 11:10AM  
Thanks...in a previous post I alluded to that...even if I can find that statistic it really doesn’t matter at this point. Didn’t understand that when I originally asked.

I think the only thing we can do now in the states is encourage everyone to get vaccinated as fast as possible and hopefully Biden will start shipping more vaccine north. AstaZeneca still hasn’t filed with the US for approval...we are sitting on over 30 million doses that experts are surmising we will never need to use...that would literally be a shot in arm to help the Canadians get back on track. My wishful thinking to get the border open sooner.

T
24kGold
distinguished member (369)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/28/2021 11:25AM  
The above is one example of why we're so fiercely divided in this country at all levels anymore. Almost everything and every comment is an op-ed these days with few indisputable facts. We all love to paddle Quetico. I'm ready to go at a moment's notice regardless of opinions.

Opinions are like bellybuttons. Get your fingers out of your lint traps and be ready to go to Quetico.

Terry
03/28/2021 05:03PM  
OneMatch: "goatroti: " couldn't give a rat's pucker"


Never heard that phrase, love it! Gonna have to use it soon!"


I liked that one as well! :)
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/28/2021 06:20PM  
US sends 1.5 m doses to Canada

US to Canada

More Canada detail - how many doses delivered by and administered:


Canada Covid tracker
03/28/2021 08:26PM  
billconner: "US sends 1.5 m doses to Canada

US to Canada

More Canada detail - how many doses delivered by and administered:

Canada Covid tracker "

Thank you that was what I was looking for...unfortunately they have so few doses those numbers aren’t comparable anymore...but they look good/efficient none the less. The 1.5 Million doses is a good start. I actually posted that already but we have somewhere between 30-60 million we may never need...I was hoping we would send them to Canada but it appears we are preparing now to send them to the EU or 3rd world countries. I’d like to see them go straight to Canada than the EU but I do get helping countries like Mexico or Brazil for example.

T
03/30/2021 03:03AM  
I find this thread interesting reading. Everyone has an opinion and that is only human natural based on individual paradigms. A year from now who got vaccinated first will not be a discussion. Deep breath. Unfortunately, logic would dictate making other plans for 2021 rather than argue over border closures beyond the control of anyone on this forum. For the record we are really disappointed not going to Canada this summer as well and we are fully vaccinated. I’m still getting use to my new micro chip...........;) I just had to.
mapsguy1955
distinguished member(567)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/30/2021 11:24AM  
I'm hoping that we can go by September, but if not, maybe next year. I did hear that Canada and the US are both looking into vaccination passports. That might solve the issue for a lot of people.
tumblehome
distinguished member(1974)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/30/2021 06:33PM  
Wendigo41: " Canada halting AstraZeneca vaccine shots for people 55 and younger "

I have no idea why, but it makes me wonder why Astazenica never applied for permission to use the vaccine in the US. Is it because they feared negative information about their drug? I just don’t know.

I do know this: I am reading no good news about Canada, vaccinations, and the possibility of us Yankees getting to come to CA. So bummed.
Tom
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/30/2021 07:13PM  
Heres' some good news for Canadians.... Good news about vaccines in Canada

Now if we could only get some good news from Texas and Florida and other big March Break hotspots.

Living up here in Canada, I and many others are glad the border is closed.

As for vaccination passposts, well we saw the ads for fake IDs on this website on the weekend. How long before we see ads for fake vaccination passports?

Keep the border closed.

Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/30/2021 09:24PM  
Wendigo41: " Canada halting AstraZeneca vaccine shots for people 55 and younger "

So no-one in that age cohort - at least in Ontario - is anywhere close to being vaccinated anyway. There's some of course - in certain risk and professional categories that are but they're outliers.

They already suspended AZ's vaccine use to people over 65 a while back. The the current age cohort to receive a dose is 60-64 for this vaccine in Ontario.

Everyone older than 64 are currently getting one Pfizer or Moderna dose.

In most cases for the general public, dose number two isn't scheduled to come for at least four months.

The perception amongst many up here with respect to Canada's relationship with AZ vaccine is that we are dumpster-diving - scrounging through the world's discarded items. Also that we are "liberal" on safety standards with the ever narrowing limitations on eligible age cohorts that always leave a door open somewhere for this particular vaccine. And, for all vaccines, that we are freelancing on efficacy standards by making assumptions about delaying the second dose that are not in lock-step with the pharma companies' own research.

Ironically there's a distinct resignation about it all though. A collective shrug that this is as good as it's going to get for the moment so let's just get on with what we have to work with. I also concur with this sentiment.
03/31/2021 07:41AM  
goatroti: "Heres' some good news for Canadians.... Good news about vaccines in Canada

Now if we could only get some good news from Texas and Florida and other big March Break hotspots.

Living up here in Canada, I and many others are glad the border is closed.

As for vaccination passposts, well we saw the ads for fake IDs on this website on the weekend. How long before we see ads for fake vaccination passports?

Keep the border closed.

"


Sorry goatroti...as much I agree with you about some of these American behaviors it will have no affect on the border opening. The ones you are afraid of will either be gone, immune, or vaccinated before the border ever opens. It appears to be a numbers game now in Canada and the numbers still don’t look good. Although I am more hopeful than 5 days ago.

I hope proof of vaccination will change that but that appears to be political suicide for The current Canadian administration so although it makes sense and would help Canadian businesses I highly doubt it will happen.

As others have said...we are all just guessing :)

T
tumblehome
distinguished member(1974)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/31/2021 08:29AM  
goatroti: "Heres' some good news for Canadians.... Good news about vaccines in Canada

Now if we could only get some good news from Texas and Florida and other big March Break hotspots.

Living up here in Canada, I and many others are glad the border is closed.

As for vaccination passposts, well we saw the ads for fake IDs on this website on the weekend. How long before we see ads for fake vaccination passports?

Keep the border closed.

"


In some ways, it might be good to keep the border closed for the sake of Americans keeping Canadians from coming to the US. In Minnesota, ANYONE older than 16 is eligible to get vaccinated. So the tables are turning here and we are on our way for anyone that wants a shot to have one.

I’m sure there are many people on both sides of the border that would no longer agree with your sentiment about keeping the border closed. It is now a political football and less and less each day a health decision.

I’m not trying to be snarky although it could be construed as such. It’s just that things are not the same as they were two months ago down here. I will be fully vaccinated in a week and I would like to come to Canada and spend money. Why would the tourism industry not want that?
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/31/2021 09:25AM  
Probably because Canada is not run by the tourism industry, nor does it take it's direction from a small group of paddlers from south of the border who think that there should be an exception for them because they really, really, really want to paddle in a very small corner of Canada. Really?
user0317
distinguished member (348)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/31/2021 09:59AM  
goatroti: "Probably because Canada is not run by the tourism industry, nor does it take it's direction from a small group of paddlers from south of the border who think that there should be an exception for them because they really, really, really want to paddle in a very small corner of Canada. Really? "
This reminds me of last year, when Minnesota's governor (Walz) made his first announcement about loosening our original Covid restrictions. Prior to this, nearly everything was shutdown, including the BWCA. I don't remember exactly what restrictions were lifted at the time, but I recall people immediately complaining that he didn't explicitly address their ability to take a canoe trip in the BW during that briefing.

If Biden and Trudeau met to discuss border restrictions, I am certain some folks would expect 'canoeing' to make their agenda.
tumblehome
distinguished member(1974)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/31/2021 02:20PM  
goatroti: "Probably because Canada is not run by the tourism industry, nor does it take it's direction from a small group of paddlers from south of the border who think that there should be an exception for them because they really, really, really want to paddle in a very small corner of Canada. Really? "
You completely missed my point. I’m not just talking about me, nor just tourists or paddlers. Really.
03/31/2021 07:09PM  
HighnDry: "We'll keep hoping but the last projection I saw was for (maybe) 90% vaccination in the US by the Aug 5th....that's with a lot of assumptions on both sides of the border coming true..."
The US will be very lucky to break 60% vaccination. A vaccination card may be the next border crossing requirement.
03/31/2021 10:37PM  
Yea we need to hit 75% vaccination rate for herd immunity...early summer at the soonest IMHO but that’s assuming people get vaccinated. We could stall out with all the conspiracy theories and misinformation out there...meanwhile I just read an article at their current rate Canada will reach herd immunity in just a mere 9.7 years. I don’t believe that number as they will increase availability over time, and that was before some recent good news, but still depressing.

T
dschult2
senior member (71)senior membersenior member
 
04/01/2021 08:34AM  
goatroti: "Probably because Canada is not run by the tourism industry, nor does it take it's direction from a small group of paddlers from south of the border who think that there should be an exception for them because they really, really, really want to paddle in a very small corner of Canada. Really?
"

And this is exactly why I don't want to drive my vehicle to our "neighbors" to the north anytime too soon for fear of having my tires slashed at seeing a license plate from the states:-)

P.S. Just funnin' goatroti. Don't blame you guy's for wanting to keep the border closed for now.
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/01/2021 08:56AM  
dschult2: "goatroti: "Probably because Canada is not run by the tourism industry, nor does it take it's direction from a small group of paddlers from south of the border who think that there should be an exception for them because they really, really, really want to paddle in a very small corner of Canada. Really?
"

And this is exactly why I don't want to drive my vehicle to our "neighbors" to the north anytime too soon for fear of having my tires slashed at seeing a license plate from the states:-)

P.S. Just funnin' goatroti. Don't blame you guy's for wanting to keep the border closed for now."


I appreciate the humour. Having paddled a lot in Wabakimi with many Americans in the last 15 years, I would love the border to be open. There's nothing better than paddling around with my American pals sharing points of view and different beverages. However, Canada is not keeping the border closed. It is a joint decision. Canada and the US agree to keep the border closed. It is unfortunate that there is a lot of opinion passed around like it is the truth, on both sides, it just clouds the issue. What gets my goat is that some on this thread act and speak like Canada and Quetico are playgrounds, playgrounds that are being denied to them. Sorry, Canada is a sovereign nation and will continue to behave like that through these difficult and novel times. And when conditions have improved both Canada and that other sovereign nation, the US will make a decision that is mutually beneficial and open the border. Till then, opinions will not matter. Not mine ( it never does, really) or anyone else's.
04/01/2021 09:31AM  
Yes good points.


T
04/03/2021 05:21PM  
Oh contraire goatroti, Canada only seems to enforce border rules as it applies to outsiders entering Canada. Canadian snowbirds were all down in Florida, etc... USA per usual in 2020-2021 un-impeded. However, USA residence bound for Canada were quarantined for 2 weeks regardless. One way travel restrictions......nice! Just point of order for fact check here. This is not an A-political decision no matter how Canadians frame it. Hopefully, The new USA administration will shutdown the one way nonsense including “essential” travel to encourage “normal” travel.
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/03/2021 06:08PM  
Don't be angry at me. I don't like that snowbird crap either... they're self-serving self-justifying wienies who would try anything to get their way. Then they try to cheat with fake vaccination records (omigawd...they're available?) so they don't have to spend 3 days in a quarantine hotel at their expense. They just pay the fine, it's cheaper than quarantine. Bastidges all of them... but don't believe they're any better than the Americans that came up her under the pretext of going straight to Alaska but got way-laid along the route... you know, shopping for necessities and taking in the sights. A little skiing here, a little rafting there.
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
04/03/2021 06:56PM  
My inlaws who live in Canada had to quarantine for two weeks after their return from visiting kids in US. Doesn't seem so one-way.
OldGreyGoose
distinguished member(1726)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/07/2021 12:44PM  
An outfitter told me yesterday there was a high level meeting and that he expects things to move forward with American access to NW Ontario by July.

--Goose
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/07/2021 01:47PM  
thistlekicker: " Lawmakers in Minnesota, Canada search for border solutions They say they'll press leaders for solutions to Northwest Angle travel. "

If that's the meeting Goose was talking about it doesn't really sound all that high level.

I believe the best place to get clues about when the border will open will be to look for trends in the tone of stories in the Canadian media like CBC.com. Take a minute every day and scan their news page.

The Canadian government will have to message this for a while - perhaps several months. They will plant positive stories in friendly media about the vaccination progress in the US and slowly drip on a reluctant Canadian populace to undo over a year's worth of negative stories about the scary USA and its orgy of Covid. At some point the attitudes will change sufficiently in Canada to make it politically profitable for the prime minister open the border.

My theory is predicated on the notion that the leadership in the USA is not an obstacle to getting the border open to non-essential travel. I have always believed that. That condition could always change of course. But it hasn't as of now.
Jackfish
Moderator
 
04/07/2021 02:15PM  
OldGreyGoose: "An outfitter told me yesterday there was a high level meeting and that he expects things to move forward with American access to NW Ontario by July."
That would be sa-weet! Maybe a late season trip to Q??? I'm pretty sure the walleyes have been missing me.
dschult2
senior member (71)senior membersenior member
 
04/07/2021 07:02PM  
Have to agree with Argo here. Read a couple articles on this. Hardley a "high level" meeting. More like just a get together by Americans to once again voice complaints to deaf ears. What's disconcerting is that it's always American lawmakers compaining to the Canadian lawmakers about the border and never the other way around. Not sure where outfitters are "hearing" their info as I've heard it from outfitters on both sides. My guess is just trying to keep prospective clients hopeful so they will book for the summer. Still no real incentive to open the border, not when Ontario just went into a four week lockdown. Bottom line, don't plan on it and if it happens by fall great. I'm ready.

straighthairedcurly
distinguished member(901)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/07/2021 10:35PM  
jhb8426
distinguished member(1298)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/07/2021 10:54PM  
thistlekicker: " Lawmakers in Minnesota, Canada search for border solutions They say they'll press leaders for solutions to Northwest Angle travel. "

It seems to me that article was more about opening the borders to border residents that regularly cross the border to do business or visit friends and relatives on either side of the border. Didn't seem to address general travel. Some mention of the issues with the Northwest Angle residents.
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/08/2021 05:38AM  
straighthairedcurly: "Then there is this: CDC warns against travel to Canada "

Someone above predicated a theory on the notion that this is not so.
MossBack
senior member (67)senior membersenior member
 
04/08/2021 08:08AM  
Several years ago I had some direct dealing with the CDC. They are a collection of self serving asses and are extremely political.

Just another opinion.
Wendigo41
member (37)member
 
04/16/2021 05:21PM  
Last week, for the first time since the pandemic began, Canada registered more cases per million than the US..
Not good. Also it sounds like all of Ontario's school will be closed for the rest of the school year, including the private ones. I don't see the border opening before schools.
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4850)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
04/16/2021 07:04PM  
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
04/17/2021 05:47AM  
yellowcanoe: " kiss that trip bye bye "

Looks like Ontario would like to build walls on its borders. Who would of thought it.
Argo
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/17/2021 07:00AM  
billconner: "yellowcanoe: " kiss that trip bye bye "


Looks like Ontario would like to build walls on its borders. Who would of thought it."


Yet flights from overseas hotspots continue to Toronto unabated.
billconner
distinguished member(7702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
04/17/2021 07:44AM  
Meanwhile, parks fill up. Stub hub for campsites
outsidethebox
senior member (93)senior membersenior member
 
04/17/2021 07:44AM  
MossBack: " Several years ago I had some direct dealing with the CDC. They are a collection of self serving asses and are extremely political.


Just another opinion."


I have worked with regulatory governmental officials-with our family business. They were always helpful and treated us in a helpful, collegial manner. Your insinuation may be valid. I do wonder how those CDC officials would characterize your behavior.
thistlekicker
distinguished member (429)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/17/2021 01:13PM  
billconner: "Meanwhile, parks fill up. Stub hub for campsites "
It was only a matter of time before a 3rd party managed to monetize the supply/demand imbalance for recreation reservations.
04/20/2021 05:43AM  
Argo: "thistlekicker: " Lawmakers in Minnesota, Canada search for border solutions They say they'll press leaders for solutions to Northwest Angle travel. "


If that's the meeting Goose was talking about it doesn't really sound all that high level.


I believe the best place to get clues about when the border will open will be to look for trends in the tone of stories in the Canadian media like CBC.com. Take a minute every day and scan their news page.


The Canadian government will have to message this for a while - perhaps several months. They will plant positive stories in friendly media about the vaccination progress in the US and slowly drip on a reluctant Canadian populace to undo over a year's worth of negative stories about the scary USA and its orgy of Covid. At some point the attitudes will change sufficiently in Canada to make it politically profitable for the prime minister open the border.


My theory is predicated on the notion that the leadership in the USA is not an obstacle to getting the border open to non-essential travel. I have always believed that. That condition could always change of course. But it hasn't as of now."


Absolutely spot and well said IMO. Trudeau enjoys blaming Americans to rally Canadians to him. Oldest political trick in the book. Vilify and blame someone else and unite your people behind you. Like sheep the masses follow.

PS Please keep the “essential” supplies coming from the USA. We can’t have any of that slowed or halted. Sheepish grin emoji here.
goatroti
distinguished member (271)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
04/20/2021 02:35PM  
BnD: "Argo: "thistlekicker: " Lawmakers in Minnesota, Canada search for border solutions They say they'll press leaders for solutions to Northwest Angle travel. "



If that's the meeting Goose was talking about it doesn't really sound all that high level.



I believe the best place to get clues about when the border will open will be to look for trends in the tone of stories in the Canadian media like CBC.com. Take a minute every day and scan their news page.



The Canadian government will have to message this for a while - perhaps several months. They will plant positive stories in friendly media about the vaccination progress in the US and slowly drip on a reluctant Canadian populace to undo over a year's worth of negative stories about the scary USA and its orgy of Covid. At some point the attitudes will change sufficiently in Canada to make it politically profitable for the prime minister open the border.



My theory is predicated on the notion that the leadership in the USA is not an obstacle to getting the border open to non-essential travel. I have always believed that. That condition could always change of course. But it hasn't as of now."



Absolutely spot and well said IMO. Trudeau enjoys blaming Americans to rally Canadians to him. Oldest political trick in the book. Vilify and blame someone else and unite your people behind you. Like sheep the masses follow.

PS Please keep the “essential” supplies coming from the USA. We can’t have any of that slowed or halted. Sheepish grin emoji here."




Nonsense.
 
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