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07/21/2021 11:13AM  
On my trip this week we found someone's shells and cheese that they had dumped in the lake (super disgusting to pick up slimy shells one at a time, but good news, they dried out on a rock and were easy to pack out.) We saw a tree that someone had tried to chop down with an ax, a nice big pine that was providing shade to the site. Every site had fresh cut green logs and pine branches stacked by the grate. We picked up SO MUCH trash on portages.

I'm just feeling really sad and discouraged. If anyone knows the folks who make the leave no trace films, they should really word them much stronger. I want people to discover and love the BWCA, but I wish people would be better about LNT.
 
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missmolly
distinguished member(7308)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
07/21/2021 11:26AM  
Thanks for the fixes you were able to do. You're the best.
 
Leo66
distinguished member (147)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/21/2021 12:02PM  
Yeah, it has been a horrible last couple years seeing all of this in posts and in person. Micro plastics to trash so large I cannot believe common sense and common courtesy did not step in.

The good news is that now folks have to actually go into a ranger station, take the quiz, and speak face to face with a ranger before they go in and trounce around in the small piece of Heaven we call the BWCA. That and things opening up maybe less people will be going...

I really hope it makes a difference.
 
PeaceFrog
senior member (75)senior membersenior member
 
07/21/2021 01:21PM  
RRHD: "On my trip this week we found someone's shells and cheese that they had dumped in the lake (super disgusting to pick up slimy shells one at a time, but good news, they dried out on a rock and were easy to pack out.) We saw a tree that someone had tried to chop down with an ax, a nice big pine that was providing shade to the site. Every site had fresh cut green logs and pine branches stacked by the grate. We picked up SO MUCH trash on portages.

I'm just feeling really sad and discouraged. If anyone knows the folks who make the leave no trace films, they should really word them much stronger. I want people to discover and love the BWCA, but I wish people would be better about LNT. "


Kudos to you for taking time to pick up the pasta. People like you make the BW a place we love and cherish. Thank you
Shame on the ignorance of others
 
schweady
distinguished member(7412)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
07/21/2021 01:54PM  
PeaceFrog: "Kudos to you for taking time to pick up the pasta."
Agreed. THANK YOU. It had to be as tedious as picking up the used TP on our site on Horse Lake nine or ten years ago. Oh, the look on my daughter's face when she cried, "What are we supposed to do with THAT?!" She was relieved when I told her it was all going only as far as the latrine...
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13910)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
07/21/2021 03:04PM  
There are people that are just slobs, pigs, and do not care. They are everywhere. The highways are filled with signs of groups that pick up trash along the road. I just got back from my private gun I belong to and there was .22 shells everywhere. Animals don’t leave trash, people do. Be more like animals.

 
07/21/2021 03:17PM  
Please report it to the USFS.

And thanks for picking up the mess others left behind.
 
07/21/2021 06:12PM  
airmorse: "Please report it to the USFS.


And thanks for picking up the mess others left behind. "


+1 Agreed that they need to strongly emphasize what not to do.
 
brp
distinguished member (146)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/21/2021 06:17PM  
I was once the person leaving pasta in the lake. Maybe its hard for the mostly veterans on this board, but it may have been a well intentioned person who did not think through the logistics of what to do with dirty dishes. You cant put the food in the latrine, you can't leave it on the land, you didn't bring bags or a spatula to somehow pack-out the uneaten food. You just did not think it through

My point is...maybe a video about rules is only part of the equation, maybe a video about how to do things right is just, or more, important. Perhaps when you reserve a permit you are automatically send a video with suggestions that help you stay in compliance as you prepare for your trip. Such as:

-Consider freeze dried meals with a small stove, you'll produce limited and tidy trash, you won't need a fire, and you'll be able to leave many dishes at home.

-Eliminate the small items that become micro trash: use zip-lock bags instead of twist ties, remove the plastic tear-off strip often found on bags of nuts, raisins and jerky.

 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2832)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/21/2021 06:31PM  
It certainly is disheartening. Those that trash and abuse have watched the films and chose to ignore LNT. Simple as that. Another film won't stop this trashing of the campsites. It's my hope that kind will grow bored playing 'My Awesome Skills in the Wilderness' and never return.
As an underline to Savage Voyageurs post:
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(596)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/21/2021 06:36PM  
Our principle is that we don't bring more food then we need, and all food is consumed at each meal. In the event we have any food left, we burn it to ash, then scrape it into zip lock bags and put in Bearvaults to pack out. You don't need to just haul around trash bags full of leftover food and trash. For us, food that comes in with us is in the bearvaults. Empty food containers go back in the bearvaults to haul out. We don't bring trash bags.
 
jillpine
distinguished member(643)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/21/2021 06:58PM  
RRHD - Picking up those shells and packing them out - you are awesome. This one's for you! Pack it out for them - sometimes, it's all we can do in the moment of sadness and frustration.
 
07/21/2021 08:09PM  
airmorse: "Please report it to the USFS.


And thanks for picking up the mess others left behind. "


We had to get my daughter back to work the next day so we didn't stop in Tofte. Do you know how to report it after the fact? I would gladly do so. We have some latrine reports too. (Nothing bad, just one site the latrine was overflowing.)
 
07/21/2021 08:11PM  
There is a lot of wisdom here. Maybe the USFS should link to some how-to sites. Maybe we should start a thread? I grew up camping in the BW with my Dad, who had been a camp counselor. I've really enjoyed the KNOLS book. Food for thought.

brp: "I was once the person leaving pasta in the lake. Maybe its hard for the mostly veterans on this board, but it may have been a well intentioned person who did not think through the logistics of what to do with dirty dishes. You cant put the food in the latrine, you can't leave it on the land, you didn't bring bags or a spatula to somehow pack-out the uneaten food. You just did not think it through


My point is...maybe a video about rules is only part of the equation, maybe a video about how to do things right is just, or more, important. Perhaps when you reserve a permit you are automatically send a video with suggestions that help you stay in compliance as you prepare for your trip. Such as:


-Consider freeze dried meals with a small stove, you'll produce limited and tidy trash, you won't need a fire, and you'll be able to leave many dishes at home.


-Eliminate the small items that become micro trash: use zip-lock bags instead of twist ties, remove the plastic tear-off strip often found on bags of nuts, raisins and jerky.


"
 
07/21/2021 08:53PM  
RRHD: "airmorse: "Please report it to the USFS.



And thanks for picking up the mess others left behind. "



We had to get my daughter back to work the next day so we didn't stop in Tofte. Do you know how to report it after the fact? I would gladly do so. We have some latrine reports too. (Nothing bad, just one site the latrine was overflowing.)"


You can call them.

Tofte Ranger Station. 218.663.7280
 
07/21/2021 10:29PM  
Slobs been around forever, I wonder how many are first timers vs veterans to the BWCA.
Years ago on Carol lake just west of Alice. I found like 24 empty beer cans thrown all over half burned jeans in the fire pit. They did this on purpose. I met them on the portage going in and they were all age 50 or older. Yes I am sure they been there before, even on the portage you could tell they really didn't care and I believe anti-BWCA attitude.

Another time on North Bay of Basswood two guys left a campsite and I went there to set up about 2 hours later. They stuffed used toilet paper in the ground in the four corners where you would place your tent and threw garbage into the fire pit.

Maybe we got more slobs now, but they never left.
 
BearBurrito
distinguished member(927)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/22/2021 08:22AM  
PeaceFrog: "RRHD: "On my trip this week we found someone's shells and cheese that they had dumped in the lake (super disgusting to pick up slimy shells one at a time, but good news, they dried out on a rock and were easy to pack out.) We saw a tree that someone had tried to chop down with an ax, a nice big pine that was providing shade to the site. Every site had fresh cut green logs and pine branches stacked by the grate. We picked up SO MUCH trash on portages.


I'm just feeling really sad and discouraged. If anyone knows the folks who make the leave no trace films, they should really word them much stronger. I want people to discover and love the BWCA, but I wish people would be better about LNT. "



Kudos to you for taking time to pick up the pasta. People like you make the BW a place we love and cherish. Thank you
Shame on the ignorance of others"


Agree, thank you!
 
07/22/2021 08:49AM  
Thanks for cleaning things up. Fortunately more people are like you than others.

T
 
JimmyJustice
distinguished member(669)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/22/2021 12:23PM  
mjmkjun: "It certainly is disheartening. Those that trash and abuse have watched the films and chose to ignore LNT. Simple as that. Another film won't stop this trashing of the campsites. It's my hope that kind will grow bored playing 'My Awesome Skills in the Wilderness' and never return.
As an underline to Savage Voyageurs post:
"


I agree it is definitively disheartening. Also the irony of the sign nailed to the tree was not lost on me.
 
Mesaba
distinguished member (216)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/24/2021 08:48AM  
Many years ago I was draining the water from a pot of Mac n cheese and it all fell in the water. We picked out as much as we could but there were a few stragglers, bright white on the black rocks. I still feel bad for the next few campers.that came through, and I now strain out the water on land.

 
07/24/2021 01:54PM  
I was impressed by how clean the sites were we stayed on. We avoided camping on Ensign to try to minimize the chance of being on a trashed site. We scoured the sites before we left and picked up very little trash that we didn't recognize as ours. I think the cleaner a site is when you get there, the more likely people are to leave it the same way.

There was some evidence of people being jerks by trying to burn logs too big for the fire grate or stuff that was too brushy or green. Also the sitting log in one had been turned over so the very rotted dished in side was up. I guess someone liked it that way because it was easier to sit stuff on it, but it rocked back and forth badly. We turned it back over and it improved my perception of the site quite a bit. You could tell that is how it started out from all the initials carved in it.
 
Orips
 
07/25/2021 08:48PM  
Just spent a week on half burnt island at snowbank. Base camping to introduce the kids to the BWCA. lots of garbage on the island. Picked up many small plastic pieces and lots of lures and line. Saddened by names carved into trees and number of motors traveling well out of the area they are supposed to stay within. Beautiful trip though and kids learned a great lesson
 
07/25/2021 10:18PM  
I have found, at some sites, toilet paper a little way from the latrine. I usually find some sticks to toss it into the latrine. I was confused and cursing people that would do that so close to the latrine until my husband pointed out that animals were probably getting in and dragging it out.
 
treehorn
distinguished member(601)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
07/26/2021 10:35AM  
Just a note regarding the fresh cut green logs....the forest service does come through and maintain sites, which sometimes includes cutting down certain trees. So, just because you see a freshly cut stump doesn't necessarily mean it was a nefarious camper that did it.
 
OHPaddler
member (7)member
 
07/26/2021 10:49AM  
My family and I were out on a Seagull-Ogish-Knife-Cherry-Ester-Sag loop over the past couple weeks. We found used wet wipes on Ester at camp 2008, just down from the bear tree. They were neatly piled and covered with a clump of dry grass. On the way to the latrine, we found a couple pounds of pancake mix(?) which were emptied onto the ground in a grassy opening. We packed out the wipes and buried the pancake mix.

To the person that did either - I hope you slip on a rock.
 
07/26/2021 01:21PM  
treehorn: "Just a note regarding the fresh cut green logs....the forest service does come through and maintain sites, which sometimes includes cutting down certain trees. So, just because you see a freshly cut stump doesn't necessarily mean it was a nefarious camper that did it."
Agreed. It did look like the forest service had been through. I was mostly concerned on that site that there was a big piece of pine tree next to the fire grate with all the needles attached. I tried to burn a christmas tree in the fireplace when I was a teenager, with my dad looking on I might add, and I remember how fast it went up. Unfortunately we also forgot to open the damper. The bricks on the outside of the fireplace were a reminder till we sold the house. (This probably should go in the blunders thread.) We lived in south Texas, fireplace fires were not something I grew up with, but I learned a quick lesson.

Anyway, the pine branch made me nervous sitting there with the current dry conditions so I hauled it further back in the woods with the other downed trees to let it lose some of it's needles. My only problem with green wood that is already cut is that there is better firewood to be found and the really big logs don't burn unless the fire is bigger than it needs to be.
 
07/28/2021 10:28AM  
All intentional trash is frustrating. Even on my very first canoe trip ever, we had so many ziploc bags that it was impossible to not have a place for garbage. Even then, we knew that we had to pack out the steak bones and any food we couldn't eat.

At best it's willful ignorance.
 
NordSteve
member (27)member
 
08/01/2021 09:40AM  
We did a bunch of picking up on our trip last week. One site was littered with sunflower seed shells, and a fireplace filled with foil. Another site had trash in the fireplace, a bunch of tissues down by the landing, and a stash of used paper towel hidden behind some grass.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2832)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
08/02/2021 05:59AM  
JimmyJustice: "mjmkjun: "It certainly is disheartening. Those that trash and abuse have watched the films and chose to ignore LNT. Simple as that. Another film won't stop this trashing of the campsites. It's my hope that kind will grow bored playing 'My Awesome Skills in the Wilderness' and never return.
As an underline to Savage Voyageurs post:
"



I agree it is definitively disheartening. Also the irony of the sign nailed to the tree was not lost on me."

But........you know it's fact.........that animals do leave their crap all over the place. :D
 
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