BWCA 2022 bear container rules Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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MikeinMpls
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11/24/2021 12:13PM  
Admittedly I haven't kept up with the bear container rules. The 2021 USFS BWCA rule came out after my trip. Are people anticipating this will remain in place for 2022, and/or become a permanent rule for the BWCA, or has this already been determined?

Mike
 
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11/24/2021 02:24PM  
Mike, the Order says it will remain in effect until terminated . . . and I have not heard anything about terminating it. I'm planning on it remaining in effect, but it doesn't really affect me much.
 
gravelroad
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11/24/2021 08:53PM  
If you read between the lines in this justification for the Forest-wide 2021 order, I think it’s pretty obvious where this is headed, perhaps especially after the feds reversed their position on Ursacks and the like:

” This year, there are several areas with reoccurring bear sightings and interactions on the Forest. Areas include Rose Lake, Duncan Lake and Daniel Lake on the Gunflint Ranger District; the Moose Lake Chain and several campgrounds including Birch Lake, Fall Lake and Fenske Lake on the Kawishiwi Ranger District; and Agnes Lake on the La Croix District.”

Superior National Forest Announces Food Storage Order to Protect Both Visitors and Bears
 
11/25/2021 11:02AM  
Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container.
 
yogi59weedr
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11/25/2021 03:35PM  
My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?
 
11/25/2021 03:50PM  
My speculation: I can’t guess about whether the new temporary rules will become permanent or not, but so long as there are a fair number of bears out there who have learned to target food near humans I’d expect the rules to continue. In thinking about 2022, I’m assuming the rules will stand.

 
11/25/2021 03:55PM  
yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"

I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation.
 
andym
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11/25/2021 05:31PM  
Note that non-rigid bear-resistant containers such as Ursacks are allowed.

The Yetis are certified if used with a lock.
 
MikeinMpls
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11/26/2021 08:01AM  
So, to be clear: some "resistant" container is required? Agreeing to hang food properly (the 10 foot up, 10 foot out method) is not sufficient?

I know this topic was covered at length over the summer.

Mike
 
11/26/2021 08:32AM  
MikeinMpls: "So, to be clear: some "resistant" container is required? Agreeing to hang food properly (the 10 foot up, 10 foot out method) is not sufficient?

I know this topic was covered at length over the summer.

Mike"

No, hanging is still acceptable, if properly done. The SNF a is basically dis-allowing the traditional blue barrel (like Harmony), non-certified coolers or containers (dog food containers, plastic buckets with gamma lids, etc), bad hanging (to low or next to tree), and stashing.

Here is the order.
 
11/26/2021 10:32AM  
Jaywalker: "yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"

I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation. "


In early August, I exchanged email with Luke Laaveg in the supervisor's office of the Superior Nat'l Forest. I did so to determine which bear-resistant containers satisfied the 200 ft-lb requirement of the FS. This was just before the FS published the revised order removing the "solid, non-pliable" requirement. Anyway, he wrote, "The ‘solid, non-pliable’ products listed within the IGBC’s certified bear-resistant products list would be your best resource."

So at this point we can say that anything on the IGBC certified list is OK.
 
MikeinMpls
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11/26/2021 12:40PM  
Ausable: "Jaywalker: "yogi59weedr: "My Yeti says bear resistant. Am I good?"


I’d say you are fine, Yogi. The way I read the rules, it did not specify products but I think your Yeti meets the standard for rigid - especially since it passed the IGBC evaluation. "



In early August, I exchanged email with Luke Laaveg in the supervisor's office of the Superior Nat'l Forest. I did so to determine which bear-resistant containers satisfied the 200 ft-lb requirement of the FS. This was just before the FS published the revised order removing the "solid, non-pliable" requirement. Anyway, he wrote, "The ‘solid, non-pliable’ products listed within the IGBC’s certified bear-resistant products list would be your best resource."


So at this point we can say that anything on the IGBC certified list is OK."


OK. Thanks to everyone. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. I've managed to do 50+ trips since 1978 without a bear stealing my food doing things the way I've been doing them. Seems a little late to fix what ain't broken in my system.

Mike
 
11/28/2021 08:30AM  
I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!
 
11/28/2021 04:53PM  
bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice.
 
HowardSprague
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11/28/2021 07:29PM  
Ausable: "Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container."

Well, that would - as they say - suck the big one.
I've had a Garcia barrel and a Bear Vault for awhile, intended as temporary or short trip measures. According to what I could afford at my budgetary pace, a couple years ago I purchased the CCS Barrel Pack and last year finally bought the blue 60l barrel from Canoecopia, finally getting to the food gear point I wanted.
What will all the outfitters do with their dozens of blue barrels?

I anticipate it will be temporary or at least move to the "look the other way" category.
 
schweady
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11/28/2021 07:40PM  
Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "
The BearVault isn't much better; we found that we could empty 15 crowlers of beer into our BV500, but at a little over 27 pounds, it was a bit awkward to portage... :-)
 
ScottL
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11/29/2021 08:27AM  
schweady: "Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "
The BearVault isn't much better; we found that we could empty 15 crowlers of beer into our BV500, but at a little over 27 pounds, it was a bit awkward to portage... :-)
"


That just means that you do some serious hydrating at the beginning of the portage and then you can tell if the portage is long or short by whether you can get to the other side without stopping along the way for a bathroom break!
 
yellowcanoe
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11/29/2021 02:07PM  
HowardSprague: "Ausable: "Yes, I anticipate that the rule will become permanent. Either hang the food high or store it in an approved bear-resistant container."


Well, that would - as they say - suck the big one.
I've had a Garcia barrel and a Bear Vault for awhile, intended as temporary or short trip measures. According to what I could afford at my budgetary pace, a couple years ago I purchased the CCS Barrel Pack and last year finally bought the blue 60l barrel from Canoecopia, finally getting to the food gear point I wanted.
What will all the outfitters do with their dozens of blue barrels?


I anticipate it will be temporary or at least move to the "look the other way" category.
"


I emailed Recreational Barrel Works with the FS requirement and asked them if their bue barrels passed the test.. They said they do no testing and contact the Forest Service.. Sheesh what a run around. I got a promotional email citing the use in the wilderness for years and the caveat it was not bear proof ( which I told them upfront I knew..). But never a direct answer.

Has anyone talked to an outfitter who rents them to their clients?
 
andym
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11/29/2021 05:23PM  
Jaywalker: "bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"The rules are the same for both, but for beer I think Ursacks are a poor choice. "

Not sure that is quite true that the rules are the same. The beer goes inside the container. The bear goes outside of it. At least, that's the hope.
 
yellowcanoe
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11/29/2021 06:30PM  
The requirements have been amended as of Aug 2021

Pliant containers are now allowed.

I can jump on the blue barrel from a foot and have no damag
amended requirements for food storage
 
11/29/2021 07:49PM  
I found an interesting USFS document from 2006. The USFS tried to develop bear-resistant containers for rafters. The document has pictures of 2 different testing machines (hint: a 200-lb person jumping on a container from a height of 1 foot doesn't qualify as an approved test).

Bear-Resistant Containers for Rafters
 
MikeinMpls
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11/30/2021 01:05PM  
yellowcanoe: "The requirements have been amended as of Aug 2021


Pliant containers are now allowed.


I can jump on the blue barrel from a foot and have no damag
amended requirements for food storage "


This is what I was looking for. As I read it, this isn't much different from a "best practices" perspective: either properly hang your food or use a bear container. The exception is that it is now a rule rather than a recommendation.

I'm fine with this. I had no intention of purchasing a bear barrel or similar bear-resistant container.

Thanks Yellowcanoe

Mike
 
yellowcanoe
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11/30/2021 01:49PM  
Mike I was just curious and confused. And RBW wasn't very helpful. Its a long way to the BWCA for me and in my old age any trip isn't going to be a long one but I don't want to buy stuff I don't need.
 
tumblehome
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11/30/2021 01:55PM  
bobbernumber3: "I mis-read the subject... thought this was 2022 beer container rules!"

Oh gawd. Funny!
 
tumblehome
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11/30/2021 02:03PM  
Per the USFS order.

A closed vehicle does not necessarily mean a closed automobile. It could be a suitcase.
Tom
 
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