BWCA Cordage/Rope if hanging heavy blue barrel... Boundary Waters Gear Forum
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HowardSprague
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03/10/2022 12:12PM  
OK, while I'm grumpy about maybe having to hang my new blue barrel in CCS barrel pack rather than (safely) stashing it, guess I'll consider it.
It'll be heavy - especially if we have 5-6 guys - so I want to use cordage that's not only strong enough in terms of (lbs rating), but easy enough to pull on and handle even when wet. So paracord is out (that's even a little tough on the hands and knot adjustment for tarps when it's wet and windy). If I'm looking at the Sterling rope offerings:
sterling rope accessory cords
should I go with the 4-5-6-or7 mm diameters?
 
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03/10/2022 01:17PM  
I just use my wood processing/fire gloves for adjusting paracord with hanging food.
 
PortageGold
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03/10/2022 01:21PM  
This really depends on how far you want to go. Are you using a pulley system or are you just throwing the line up and over, how long are you tripping for?

My general assessment: Obviously the bigger the rope the stronger it will be and easier to use when wet. But there is a point of diminishing returns.

Strength wise I did a very rough calc on the loading that a 5 ft drop of a 100 lb load would have on the rope and came up with ropes at 6mm would be close to the minum to survive the load. This is a much larger load to stop the moving object compared to a simple static hang. But like I said it was a ball park estimate.

With handeling when wet you can always tie in a stick to give you a handel bar to help pull and or tie a prusik knot to it with a handle
 
03/10/2022 01:53PM  
I use this type of pulley. Small and light.
 
Lawnchair107
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03/10/2022 03:59PM  
AmarilloJim: "I use this type of pulley. Small and light."

I use these as well plus the dual-harken pulley. I pair this with 7/64 armsteel which is rated to like 1200lbs. Use your gloves or attached a stick via clove hitch and it really works quite well. This method has been used on food bags weighing 40-55 lbs.
 
belgiancurve22
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03/10/2022 09:17PM  
Mule tape works great we use it at work,lightweight and water doesn’t effect it
 
Erk
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03/10/2022 09:22PM  
I vote 6mm Sterling cord. I’d highly suggest some sort of friction saver or a 3:1 pulley system. Make your life easier and save the trees from wounds to reduce insects or damage while you do it
 
WonderMonkey
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03/10/2022 09:31PM  
belgiancurve22: "Mule tape works great we use it at work,lightweight and water doesn’t effect it "

I use Amsteel, which is what makes Mule tape. I use that for bow lines, etc. Very strong, floats and more.
 
Kendis
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03/11/2022 06:48AM  
PortageGold: "
With handeling when wet you can always tie in a stick to give you a handel bar to help pull and or tie a prusik knot to it with a handle"


+1 to using a stick as a handle. But use a marlinspike hitch instead of a prusik or the clove hitch suggested in a different post. The marlinspike hitch is literally made for using a bar (stick in this case) as a handle and is easier to tie and untie.
 
moosedoggie
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03/11/2022 07:01AM  
I like to use amsteel (7/64" - 1200lb). It doesn't stretch.
 
03/11/2022 08:29AM  
Like many others Amsteel Blue 1/8 (or 7/64) and sailing pulleys to get a 3:1 or 4:1 mechanical advantage. The Viadana 25 mm blocks (see below) work well for me. I can hang two food packs (100 lb total) together on the same line without a problem. If necessary, I use a 2 inch (+/-) diameter stick to pull the rope. The whole set up (pulleys, carabiner clips, rope) weighs a little more than half a pound.

 
alpinebrule
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03/11/2022 09:56AM  
Another cordage source Lawson Equipment .
Products are sometimes out of stock but do come back fairly quickly.
 
DMan5501
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03/11/2022 01:14PM  
Got this last year to hang the blue barrel & misc (garbage) pack...
Weighs in at 4 oz (without cordage) used 550 paracord and sticks to raise it.

Great tool!


 
03/11/2022 06:24PM  
I put ursacks in mine.....
 
Loony_canoe
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03/11/2022 07:42PM  
When I have a heavy barrels (large group). We use 3/8 braid nylon ropes (boat anchor line). We also always use at least one pulley. I like a nylon 3 inch pulley to reduce rolling resistance and make multiple raise and lower easier. For big loads, greater than 30 lbs I use two pulleys. More rope, but prevents hernias. Also, at times we will use paddles to help push up the barrel. As mentioned, a stick or more is needed for the pull rope. We tend to walk the rope back instead of just pulling. It’s a team effort with multiple rope pullers, and barrel pushers.
I cannot see how you can meet the regulations without a pulley and a no stretch rope system.
 
StLouisPaddler
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03/12/2022 10:22AM  
I use the pack-a-pull 4:1 pulley system with Lawson Ironwire.
 
03/12/2022 11:48AM  
Kendis: "+1 to using a stick as a handle. But use a marlinspike hitch instead of a prusik or the clove hitch suggested in a different post. The marlinspike hitch is literally made for using a bar (stick in this case) as a handle and is easier to tie and untie."

Thanks! Learned a new knot today.

TZ
 
Lawnchair107
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03/12/2022 06:24PM  
TrailZen: "Kendis: "+1 to using a stick as a handle. But use a marlinspike hitch instead of a prusik or the clove hitch suggested in a different post. The marlinspike hitch is literally made for using a bar (stick in this case) as a handle and is easier to tie and untie."

Thanks! Learned a new knot today.

TZ"


That’s exactly what we do, too. Just find the simpler clove-hitch easier to tie than the marlin, but definitely not a prussik.

My .02 cents
 
Kendis
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03/13/2022 07:59AM  
TrailZen: "Kendis: "+1 to using a stick as a handle. But use a marlinspike hitch instead of a prusik or the clove hitch suggested in a different post. The marlinspike hitch is literally made for using a bar (stick in this case) as a handle and is easier to tie and untie."


Thanks! Learned a new knot today.


TZ"


If you use a tarp at camp, you can also make it easier to put up and take down the tarp by creating an impromptu marlinspike hitch and a toggle (probably a stick you find on the ground) to create a quick release.

Tie a bowline in the end of the rope, pass the rope around the tree once, then pull the standing end (the end that goes to the other tree) through the loop of the bowline to create a marlinspike hitch. Insert the toggle. Now all you have to do when taking down the tarp is remove the toggle and the ridgeline rope comes loose. There are videos out there like this one that show it (starting at timestamp 1:40).
 
03/13/2022 08:45AM  
Kendis: "TrailZen: "Kendis: "+1 to using a stick as a handle. But use a marlinspike hitch instead of a prusik or the clove hitch suggested in a different post. The marlinspike hitch is literally made for using a bar (stick in this case) as a handle and is easier to tie and untie."



Thanks! Learned a new knot today.



TZ"



If you use a tarp at camp, you can also make it easier to put up and take down the tarp by creating an impromptu marlinspike hitch and a toggle (probably a stick you find on the ground) to create a quick release.


Tie a bowline in the end of the rope, pass the rope around the tree once, then pull the standing end (the end that goes to the other tree) through the loop of the bowline to create a marlinspike hitch. Insert the toggle. Now all you have to do when taking down the tarp is remove the toggle and the ridgeline rope comes loose. There are videos out there like this one that show it (starting at timestamp 1:40)."


For the static end of a ridge line use a Siberian hitch instead. No stick or extra knot/loop required. Super easy.

Siberian hitch
 
Savage Voyageur
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03/13/2022 04:22PM  
I really like the 5mm cord that REI sells. You can buy it in bulk lengths.
 
Erk
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03/13/2022 09:17PM  
I’d play around with a few knots and ideas before heading out. It’s the same idea for friction hitches. Not everyone likes the same rope, hitch, knot, or idea. At my last job, i was the ONLY person climbing on a VT (Valdotain Tresse) aka French knot, while the rest climbed on a Distel hitch. It’s all personal preference. So I’d recommend taking all of these good ideas and mess around until you find one You like.

Whatever cord you end up with, get yourself some micro pulleys, from SMC, CMI, DMM, etc. learn how to hang your bag with those. Not only will you save your forearms from hauling your blue barrel, but you’ll have the know how to do some basic rigging or potentially help save a canoe or life. Worth the few extra baggage in your canoe and brain
 
HowardSprague
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03/15/2022 11:29AM  
Great ideas - thanks!

I guess my main line, assuming you need to be about 12-15’ up, and have enough to tie down around each tree, and the trees could easily be 50’ apart, should be a good 80-100’ in length.
 
northerncanoe
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03/23/2022 07:35AM  
I am undertaking an effort to decrease the total weight of my canoe packs. Carrying a heavy pack is dangerous in terms of increasing the risk of injury, plus it is not all that fun hauling a way too heavy pack in and out of the boat and down the portage.

It is fun to see the advances in rope and pulley's. It seems like plenty of weight could be saved by using lighter hardware and rope.

I have a 10 x 12 tarp, how many feet of cordage would you bring for a proper hang?

I am going to purchase a lighter tent as there is good potential to save a couple pounds there too. I have also cut back on the amount of fishing tackle I bring as it turns out I have success with a small subset of my lures each time.

Thanks.

Mike

 
03/23/2022 09:11AM  
Here's a diagram that I use with the harken sailing pulleys (linked above):



As noted above, this works with about 100 ft of 8mm, reflective climbing rope (REI). 50 ft is tied to B pulley and the other 50 ft to the C pulley. Each runs to a tree branch. A short piece of this rope (about a foot long) ties pulley B to pulley C. The whole set-up weighs about 12 oz.
 
HowardSprague
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03/24/2022 09:25AM  
That looks like it would be highly effective, I like it. I take it the yellow dots are points of attachment? I like that I could’ve just bought two 50 foot pieces instead of shopping around for a 100 ft piece. (But it’s on the way, went with a 7mm from bluewaterropes.)
I know i’d somehow screw up the pulley A section :)
My simplistic thought, as scribbled on the napkin below, was one 7mm rope across, a pulley in the middle, and a 5mm cord through that and to the pack, and tied off somewhere. Any thoughts as to why this might not work? I’ll try things out in the back yard when we have some decent weather.
 
Traveler316
 
03/24/2022 04:09PM  
not worth it to take a rigid container that will be hung in my opinion. With big groups I'll bring a Bear Vault (licensed and approved BEAR PROOF container) which does not need to be hung on specified lakes, and a few big dry bags full of food. The reason I bring multiple dry bags is because each person can carry a little bit of the food, rather than 1 guy carrying all of it. And I use dry bags because they weigh nothing compared to a rigid container, and will do a better job of being "airtight" to reduce smell wofting all over the woods advertising my hang. And when you trickle out the food from each bag, I just stuff that empty bag in my backpack, and viola no extra crap to carry on the way out.
 
StLouisPaddler
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03/24/2022 06:08PM  
HowardSprague: "That looks like it would be highly effective, I like it. I take it the yellow dots are points of attachment? I like that I could’ve just bought two 50 foot pieces instead of shopping around for a 100 ft piece. (But it’s on the way, went with a 7mm from bluewaterropes.)
I know i’d somehow screw up the pulley A section :)
My simplistic thought, as scribbled on the napkin below, was one 7mm rope across, a pulley in the middle, and a 5mm cord through that and to the pack, and tied off somewhere. Any thoughts as to why this might not work? I’ll try things out in the back yard when we have some decent weather.
"


This is identical to what I do. I believe it’s called the clothesline method and one of the approved hanging methods. I use 100 feet for the “clothesline” between two trees with one end tied off with a Siberian hitch and the other end tied off and tensioned, heavily, with a truckers hitch. The pulley system is attached in the middle of the clothesline using an Alpine Butterfly knot. The 4:1 pulley I use takes about 75 feet of rope to get a good high hang, but I’ve made 50 feet work in a pinch. I like this method because you don’t need to rely on finding that mythical one perfect hanging branch that never seems to exist. You just need two trees of generally appropriate spacing and strength.
 
StLouisPaddler
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03/24/2022 06:19PM  
Here is a link to a couple variations on this type of hang for anyone interested.

Clothesline Bear Hang Diagram

 
03/24/2022 06:32PM  
The above versions of pulleys/line will all work. The advantage of a three-pulley system is that it lessens the load that you would feel at your end (the force that you will need to expend while getting your barrel into the air) versus just the one pulley.



You would be using a force of 1/3 the weight of your barrel vs a half if using one pulley, etc.
 
nooneuno
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03/24/2022 07:25PM  
As an old sailor once taught me, if you can't tie a knot just tie a lot, this sage advice has served me well as I can tie a square knot and can tie my shoes that is about it... When hanging a food pack weight capacity does not really concern me what does is line stretch. If you raise your pack twelve feet in the air and ten minutes later you have to bend down to access it you will understand that strength and stretch are not mutually inclusive....
 
HowardSprague
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03/24/2022 10:28PM  
I like your Alpine Butterfly idea - not a difficult knot, and would keep the pack line at a desired distance between the two trees, rather than sliding too far one way or the other.
Got my rope today, and had already ordered a pulley referenced in one of the above replies. Was thinking this (pictured) - but will prob do the pulley from the knot as you mentioned.
Hopefully this pulley is tough enough for the job, maybe I’ll get another slightly larger one as backup.
 
Grizzlyman
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03/24/2022 10:28PM  
Just buy a 1/2” rope from wherever…
 
Z4K
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04/06/2022 07:33AM  
With this thread as my primary inspiration, I went online and ordered double and triple Harken Fly 18mm Soft Attach blocks. Rigged them up this morning with 7/64 dyneema (attached to the "becket" with a water bowline backed by a few overhands). I anticipate skipping a pulley or three for most applications but the possibility of going all the way to 6:1 is there. The double block is the weak link, rated to only 450#. Without the haul line, the rigged blocks weigh just under 2 oz.





A little overkill for a food barrel, but for less than two ounces this will be handy for hanging big game in the field, un-stucking my smaller 4 wheeler, etc. I imagine a pinned canoe would be too much but for the cost I would try.
 
MagicPaddler
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04/06/2022 05:29PM  
One of my lift kits 9.4 Oz.
The blocks are Ronstan Series 30. Don’t know why I used Series 30 Series 15 are Cheaper, lighter, and strong enough. With 30 Lb pull on the string it will lift a 90 LB food bag. It was tested by lifting 175 Lb. The swivel is rated at 420 Lb. The support line is Para cord which goes between 2 tree tops. The blue bag serves two purposes. It is the storage bag for the system and I put a rock in it to throw over a limb using the string that is tied to it to pull the para cord over. The white line is 1.2mm nylon string.
Oh yes I ware leather gloves when lifting or lowering it.
 
arnesr
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04/07/2022 08:21PM  
I can understand why you are grumpy, that's a lot of extra work. Theoretically speaking what if you just take your food barrel with you during the day while you are out on the water and stash it safely in the woods at night. Who is going to know the difference? Yeah, bears feed at night too, but I'm in the Cliff Jacobson camp that the bears are going to be wandering around looking for hanging food packs, as that is what the "problem" bears are conditioned to. I don't believe the Canadian parks have made hanging mandatory yet.
 
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