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04/27/2022 07:25AM  
I've been thinking about this for a while. I live in the far north suburbs of Chicago.
When I had my Yakima rack put on my car there was only one place to get it done, an outfit called Rackattack in Skokie, an hour drive south. The next nearest Rackattack is in Minneapolis. So, with the boom in interest in kayaking, biking and all things outdoors, I'm thinking there is a void for a supplier and huge market for a competitor. The north shore of Chicago has so much money they don't know what to do with it. I'm going to call it Nice Rack, a counter to the aggressive logo and make your own assumptions from there. Outdoors people are nice people - Nice Rack - I like it! Going to invest some time and energy into this. I think it could really work, could start small and go from there. Marketing will be huge, and then the execution, of course, with a lot of hard work it could all fall into place.
Now don't go stealing my idea, was thinking someone might want to partner up but I'm not so sure about that. Me and my gf talked about partnering up, but just staying together is hard enough. And wait till you see my model at the trade shows sporting a Nice Rack t-shirt! (Just kidding.)

Just throwing it out here. Anybody have any thoughts? I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,
scat
 
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Zulu
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04/27/2022 08:27AM  
It sounds like a viable idea scat. I have a background in sales and marketing and may be able to help. Here are some ideas for advertising online, in print and radio.

Introducing NICE RACK. A local company intent on meeting all your roof top carrying needs. Let us handle your Rack! Our hands on technicians are gentle yet firm. These guys have been passionate about racks since adolescence. Gals too! We are an equal opportunity employer and welcome all who admire a nice rack and want to get their hands on them!
Don’t be Boob and go to Crack Attack, that other rack company. Their sales are flat and their customer base is sagging.

Subscribe to our mailing list to stay abreast of all that’s happening at NICE RACK!




scat, I would run it by a Human Resources professional on the off chance someone might find the company name offensive. You never know these days.
Good luck! If I was young again I would hop onboard! I’ve always liked looking at Nice Racks!
 
04/27/2022 08:58AM  
Zulu - That's awesome. Thanks for the laugh, cracked me up. I'm seriously going to start working on this. It's my Bday today and I'm not getting any younger, time to figure this out, cuz my job suggggs... and has for a long time.
 
Zulu
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04/27/2022 09:10AM  
Happy Birthday scat! Follow your dreams! Follow the Raven as Cliff Jacobson always says!
 
04/27/2022 09:36AM  
Not to toss a monkey wrench into the idea but you never mentioned REI which carries racks, part, accessories, and does installation. Most all bicycle specialty shop also carry and install racks, as well as big box stores Bass Pro and Cabelas and auto/truck part stores.

butthead

PS: Could be my SE WI location, up here there would be a lot of competition. bh
 
04/27/2022 09:53AM  
Thanks for the input. When I was looking to get my rack installed and googled Yakima racks the only company that came up was Rackattack. Nobody else mentioned installation, just parts, and not too many. So I'm thinking the marketing aspect is open to be... attacked... and would be crucial. A good website, trade shows, word of mouth etc. Everyone uses google and the computer these days, I do for almost everything.
And I could start small. I don't see it taking a huge initial investment. All you need is a garage and a handful of tools and I'm fairly handy having been in the trades and in construction all my life.
 
deerfoot
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04/27/2022 10:37AM  
Workable idea since a lot of first time rack buyers may be intimidated trying to install one themselves (I have helped several friends obtain and install their racks). Maybe start out trying to work with rack retailers as a recommended installer. I always thought there may be opportunities in dealing in all the widely available used rack stuff for sale.

I have used Yakima racks for maybe 40 yrs and after you understand a few principles common to their installation doing it yourself isn't too hard.

As previously suggested, you will really need to get the word out there regarding your services. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
 
Northwoodsman
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04/27/2022 10:49AM  
Scat -
1) Supply chain issues.
2) Becoming an authorized Yakima dealer - you would have to negotiate with Yakima, they probably have geographical restrictions to protect dealers.
3) Cost of inventory - substantial. There are so many different parts, kits, and combinations that you would need to carry.
4) Competing against on-line stores that can ship nation-wide from one location in a matter of days.
5) The beauty of the Yakima and Thule type of systems is that they are perfect for DIY's. Once you select the correct combination of parts you are 90% there. I know with my system I install it and remove it every time I use it so installation to me would not be a benefit. I purchased mine at REI. All the parts were in stock except the specific clips which took only 3 days to get. I read the instructions, watched a quick video and had it installed in 30 minutes on my truck. I took a Sharpie and placed a dot inside my doors where the front and back bars should go and placed a corresponding dot on the mounts to align them. I did the same thing with the cross bars since I have a couple different styles that I use.
6) For the most part it's a one time deal. Once you buy a rack you are done except for a few add-ons which are easy on-line purchases. Again, once it's installed there are no more installations. From that point most people can figure it out for themselves. There isn't a huge market for these, probably not enough to sustain a business limited to one brand, one specialty. You would need to offer more brands, and more items to be profitable.

Like butthead mentioned most bike shops, REI, ski, and paddle shops sell Yakima and Thule. Many offer installation. One reason that it may be tough to find installers when searching is that they are designed to be DIY.

Why do people take them off and not leave them on all the time? Noise, fuel efficiency, don't fit in garage, appearance, theft, wear and tear, can't go through car wash.
 
04/27/2022 10:56AM  
Good luck in your new venture!

butthead
 
04/27/2022 11:05AM  
Yeah, even tho I'm handy with tools I was a bit intimidated at drilling into my hood without any experience so I wanted to have it installed. Thinking most people will feel the same way. Quite sure it's not rocket science once you know the basics. And yes I would offer more than Yakima, that is my brand of choice so that is what I searched for. I was considering supply chain issues might come in to play, but everyone is probably in the same canoe.
Rackattack was busy, they had a lot going on when I was there, bunch of salespeople, customers. Not sure how much inventory I would need to carry. I could order the parts per job just like you did, at the start.
Appreciate the input. You can't rain on my parade!, I have a rainsuit too haha. This is gonna fly man. Definitely going to give it a good look see.
 
04/27/2022 11:43AM  
You'd also have to think about liability -- if the rack failed, you could be sued.

Also I don't know if you're serious about the name, but consider the share of the market which might be put off by it. As a woman I would think twice about going to your shop for help. It's hard enough navigating the world as it is. Ever been groped when helping a blind guy cross the street? Yeah, didn't think so. Would I go to a shop where their judgement of my body is right on the sign? I'll pass, thank you.
 
04/27/2022 12:03PM  
That's fair, and I suppose is a consideration. I realize there is a bit of innuendo there, but thought it might be a plus. My gf actually came up with it. The logo she came up with has a kinda buggy type SUV like my Isuzu Trooper with a rack on top, nothing to do with a woman's body, more playing to the Nice part of the name. But I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
 
Saberboys
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04/27/2022 12:24PM  
I believe that this could have potential as a viable business, perhaps even a mobile business? There is a huge market segment out there for SUP and kayaks, and I would think a significant segment of this market would be interested in installation. Not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer. Be it from an online rack purchase, or switching it to a different vehicle, or simply a different option from the location from where it was purchased. (wait times can push people to find more convenient options). A mobile aspect could be a huge driver for some.

While some may take offense to the name, many others will not. It is a play on words meant to grab attention. Think Big Johnson surfboard apparel for instance- they don't actually sell surf boards, just shirts! Anyway, I would be a little more subtle with the logo, let it be inferred. Waves can take many shapes for example.. Just a thought!

 
Northwoodsman
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04/27/2022 12:29PM  
Scat - if I had a choice of supporting the little guy trying to make a living or the big company, I'd support the little guy every time. I would be willing to pay more for your service also.

How could you differentiate? Perhaps offer a mobile service. Have a van and do mobile installs at customers location that way you could even set it up and adjust it for the actual load. Also, work with other dealers who sell the systems but don't do the installs. Do demo's at dealers who sell the systems to get people to buy them from them, then do follow up clinics on self-installation (get them to buy more upgrades while your at it). Buy and sell used systems, take in trades. Think outside the box, do what others don't. Sometimes it's either to forge a new path than try to navigate rush hour traffic.

Saberboys - you and I were typing at the same time! Great idea.
 
nooneuno
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04/27/2022 12:33PM  
scat: "That's fair, and I suppose is a consideration. I realize there is a bit of innuendo there, but thought it might be a plus. My gf actually came up with it. The logo she came up with has a kinda buggy type SUV like my Isuzu Trooper with a rack on top, nothing to do with a woman's body, more playing to the Nice part of the name. But I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you."


This may be sexist but I would guess more men than women would attempt to mount their own racks so as previously stated women are
not a segment of the population you would want to risk offending.

In regards to working from a garage, if it is residential one nearby Karen could but the kabash on the venture with a complaint to zoning. Going to the Yakima website under dealers would reveal their dealers an who offers installs I would venture there are probably many more than your search revealed. Almost all truck accessory companies that do toppers, ladder racks, and aftermarket rims do racks as well.
Years ago I had a friend who was a first mate on a group charter boat out of Key West he thought it would be cute to wear a T shirt that said “ master baiter” he said the amount of unforeseen complaints they received was crazy, never wore it again after the first two weeks.
 
04/27/2022 12:38PM  
Perhaps I was riled up by Zulu's post. His advertising taken as a joke is hilarious, but I was imagining that kind of mindset at an actual place of business. I used to work in a very male dominated industry and dealt with enough crap that I'd not be keen to voluntarily patronize a place with a culture like that.

If you could truly emphasize the "nice" (in both advertising and employee attitude), I could see the appeal. The name still might make me think twice though.
 
04/27/2022 12:51PM  
Much the same thinking on supporting local vs big box only mentioned as they are competition.
Been thru a bunch of racks in my lifetime. All sources from places like Rutabaga and Wheel & Sprocket. Just never had fear of drilling if needed. Installed the Yakima Gutter plates to 4 of my vehicles, 2 were a week old (after new order delivery). The point on liability is also very important.

butthead
 
04/27/2022 12:54PM  
Like I said the logo we came up with had an SUV with a rack on top and the lettering/font was friendly, kinda hippie ish. Wish I had it handy, my gf made it and we've been on the outs again for a bit (TMI I know). Had nothing to do with a woman's body, tho I will confess the innuendo is intentional and like was said, meant to grab attention. The mobile idea sounds like a good one. Thanks for that.

Kinda got behind you guys, what I meant by garage is rent a place, just like a small car repair place, simple office with an overhead door in back to roll the vehicle in to. Nothing fancy, but Nice. The mobile idea would even eliminate that and might be convenient to the customers, hmmm... Appreciate all the thoughts. Thanks a million.
 
gravelroad
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04/27/2022 01:27PM  
I sold Yakima and Thule racks for five years for the largest independent outdoor retailer in the country.

The only part of the installation job I passed off to a co-worker was the Thule Hullavator. I was happy to let her collect all the tips she could make doing it. Every other piece of Thule or Yakima equipment can be installed by someone who can read the diagrams and knows which end of an Allen wrench to grab.

I think you might make a living in Palm Springs or Aspen, but otherwise the competition will eat your lunch.
 
04/27/2022 01:36PM  
Like I said Rackattack was hoppin, and the north shore of Chicago is full of money. Prob one of the few places left that people pay for someone to pump their gas and willingly pay 60 cents more a gallon for the convenience. A lot of people getting in to kayaking and such lately are newbies, not so much hard core self reliant outdoor people like on this forum. A fair share wouldn't know an allen wrench from a screwdriver. They might eat my lunch on a larger scale but as long as I get my share I could do all right. Just looking for my own little slice of happiness to start off, start small and go from there.
 
afromaniac
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04/27/2022 01:50PM  
I feel like the entire point of the thread was to make us laugh with the name of the place. The design ideas really make it seem even worse - like a muffler shop with swimsuit calendars around. I'd say you either a) lean way into it and make it a place full of pinup girls, like Hooters, but for rack installation (gross, I would not visit), or b) ditch the name idea and get serious.
 
Kendis
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04/27/2022 02:08PM  
Offshore Marine in the north suburbs might be willing to consider allowing you some kind of in shop workspace in exchange for a cut of the action.
 
KawnipiKid
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04/27/2022 02:16PM  
You are thinking like a successful entrepreneur and I hope this works for you. Two things. First, I would avoid a company called nice rack even knowing it's done in good fun and many people, men and women, will smile. Even as a straight guy and not a prude, I wouldn't be comfortable because I know about (just a little of) the crap my wife, sisters, and daughter have dealt with committing the crime of being attractive while shopping, working, teaching, being a nurse, and, yes, even just camping, biking and paddling. Why have a clever name if it would turn away any paying customer? Second, a related service you could offer is installing trailer hitches. I've done 4 of them, 2 easy and 2 not so. With the shop and tools set up, an easy install could take 15 minutes or less and a not so easy might take 45. Custom hitches for almost any make of vehicle are easy to get delivered fast via companies like eTrailer. It's intimidating for most people to install them. I'm astonished how much people pay for an installed hitch knowing how much it actually costs retail.
 
04/27/2022 02:49PM  
Ok - let’s say Nice Rack might be too close to pushing the edge of the risk/reward type of thing. What’s next…

scats racks !!!

Billy’s Rack Shack

Rack it Up

Buy my Rack or I will Starve LLC


 
04/27/2022 02:56PM  
VERY NICE RACK's.

butthead
 
04/27/2022 03:25PM  
I bought my first rack from Ralph Frese at his shop in Chicago. He didn't have a Yakima tower that would fit my "well loved" Impreza so I cleared him to drill and weld the rack directly to the car. It gave a me a charge.
 
Gunwhale
member (21)member
 
04/27/2022 03:30PM  
Doggone: KawnipiKid triggered a great idea; I'm gonna start installing trailer hitches and call the business " Hooking Up. "

Whaddaya think?
 
04/27/2022 03:31PM  
So did I did I! Ralph Freese from Chicagoland Canoe Base. He was a classic dude. Put my first Yakima rack on a GMC Safari. Gotta love a guy like that, kinda quirky but a really nice guy.
 
04/27/2022 03:56PM  
Scat, whether you decide to push this idea off the ground or not, I hope it's a GREAT birthday!

TZ
 
04/27/2022 04:16PM  
Thanks to all for your contributions. You have given me things to consider. Had a great cheeseburger and a couple into it telling my bartender I just turned 41 (not 41 but she is). Life is good. And it’s only going to get better. Still like Nice Rack, I think it’s gonna fly.

As always, Cheers, scat
 
Northwoodsman
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04/27/2022 06:43PM  
Rack & Roll!
Rack On!
Rack 'Em Up!
The Rackateer!
 
jillpine
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04/27/2022 07:37PM  
Hey Scat, love the idea. I’ll partner with you with my someday-soon retirement side hustle. I’m going to learn to sew ultralight stuff sacks. We can open side-by-side leaseholds and be: Nice Rack and Nice Sack. Back to back.

(I think Rack On! is a great name).
 
04/27/2022 07:46PM  
Is it rack installation? Every bike shop that sells Yakima or other brands will install it. I did countless installs when I worked at Bikes Plus in Barrington. Also Yakima stuff is very easy to install for the average person. Their fit is very specific for individual car models, and the video instructions are easy to follow.. So If it's rack installation, I don't know how much demand there will be. I like the name
 
KawnipiKid
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04/27/2022 07:47PM  
Gunwhale: "Doggone: KawnipiKid triggered a great idea; I'm gonna start installing trailer hitches and call the business " Hooking Up. "


Whaddaya think? "


Good one, Gunwhale! At least you didn't go with "Hitches, *itches!" I actually think that "Gunwhales" would draw good business.
 
OCDave
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04/27/2022 07:48PM  
I'd suggest parking across the street from Rack Attack every day for a week or so to get an idea just how busy you might expect to be as a Rack-centric.

I bought my Yakima rack at REI due to the return policy. Price would have been the same at Rack Attack but... REI is where I buy most often. I have been to Rack Attack Minneapolis three times for lock cores, tower adapters, very small items not available at REI. Rack Attack seemed not very busy during the times I visited.

Good Luck
 
04/27/2022 08:07PM  
I live between Chicago and Milwaukee. I always thought a good BW type business would be "A BWCA Outfitters Ambassador". Through the Outfitter people would pay an extra fee before they go to have a personal instructor to teach the basics. Like how to pack, hoisting a canoe, reading a map and how to navigate. paddling basics, fire starting, pitching a tent, cooking basics, ect ect. It would be geared toward the beginner. Obviously you would have to work in conjunction with the Outfitter or Outfitters. Being near large Urban areas would make it more cost effective.
 
04/27/2022 08:11PM  
Nice Rack leaves me blah... not outdoorsy. Says the guy whose wife had a double mastectomy yesterday.
 
04/27/2022 09:09PM  
All thoughts are considered and appreciated. Didn’t expect all positive responses, that is the way the world works. All I know is I think there is a market for this. That is the most important thing, the rest is just hard work, and who doesn’t love that.
 
missmolly
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04/27/2022 09:43PM  
Happy birthday, Scat. I don't have anything to add to your idea, but having interviewed and profiled hundreds of entrepreneurs, I know the formula for success:

hard work + more hard work + making next to nothin' for a couple years = success sometimes
 
DRob1992
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04/27/2022 10:08PM  
scat: "Ok - let’s say Nice Rack might be too close to pushing the edge of the risk/reward type of thing. What’s next…

scats racks !!!

Billy’s Rack Shack

Rack it Up

Buy my Rack or I will Starve LLC



"


I like scats racks the best of these options.
 
04/27/2022 11:15PM  
I’m thinking the most important thing about this venture is the marketing, getting people to call you. Having a website that is user friendly for example is huge. The name Nice Rack might offend some but if done tastefully it could fly. You can’t please everybody. It’s meant to garner attention, go from there.
mm - you are in for the first run of Nice Rack tshirts . Pick your color.
 
Stumpy
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04/27/2022 11:57PM  
fadersup: "I bought my first rack from Ralph Frese at his shop in Chicago. He didn't have a Yakima tower that would fit my "well loved" Impreza so I cleared him to drill and weld the rack directly to the car. It gave a me a charge.
"

Knew Ralph
My wife's dad knew him well
My daughter and I were at his wake.
Great guy.
 
04/28/2022 07:41AM  
You could expand your scope a little, and install lifts in garages. I'm sure there are plenty of homeowners that would like to have some sort of canoe storage/lift in their garage, but aren't the DIY type, or maybe they're older, less strong, etc, and just need someone else to do it. One of those easy pulley systems, where they can lower the canoe right down on top of the vehicle.
 
04/28/2022 11:26AM  
Love the idea! I also agree that most folks along the N shore of Chicago are probably not installing themselves. I'm sure there will be exceptions but I bet most will have it installed.

One other consideration & I do have my primary family living along the N shore so I'm familiar with the demographic. I'm also guilty of this next part myself......
An aftermarket rack has a certain appearance and in many cases give the vehicle a more "rugged" look. That certainly appeals to some. Others may not want their Acura adorned with Thule or Yakima. When I had my last roof rack installed it was the dealership who put on the OEM rack made specifically for my vehicle. Installed at the dealership, were any issues to arise I wanted that part covered. Point is...I want my FJ cruiser to give off the "rugged" look, but not the MKX, that should be more streamlined and discrete IMO. So it may be folks along the N shore are having OEM racks installed by their dealer. Everyone I'm related to up there does everything at the dealership.......
 
missmolly
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04/28/2022 12:43PM  
Scat, I'm as flat as Kansas. If I wore a shirt that said, "Nice rack," I'd be accused of false advertising.
 
04/28/2022 01:21PM  
mm - You’re perfect! That is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time. Made me chuckle. Thanks for that.
 
smoke11
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04/28/2022 01:51PM  
I think its is a good ideal for a business.
 
missmolly
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04/28/2022 02:14PM  
scat: "mm - You’re perfect! That is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time. Made me chuckle. Thanks for that."

;-)
 
04/28/2022 04:00PM  
scat: "So did I did I! Ralph Freese from Chicagoland Canoe Base. He was a classic dude. Put my first Yakima rack on a GMC Safari. Gotta love a guy like that, kinda quirky but a really nice guy."

Yeah, Ralph was a dude for sure. "Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there."

He dedicated his life to getting people excited about paddling. And Chicago's last operating blacksmith to boot! I love to see those signs along the North Branch that say "Ralph Frese Canoe Trail." What a dude.

I made a visit to his shop looking for advice on buying my first canoe. He bought me lunch at the diner down the block and after I told him that I could only have one, he recommended a NC Prospector (with a nod to his Canadienne as a good option too if I could find one). My wife and I looked forward every year to the Happy Canoe Year paddle and we still try to enter the Des Plaines Marathon when we can. People like Ralph are a good reminder of how a life well lived can ripple positivity throughout a community.
 
andym
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04/28/2022 05:27PM  
I agree with staying away from Nice Rack. You will lose more business than you get. How about a billiards theme:
Rack em Up
with the slogan, “we get you ready for fun.”
If you have a shop you could even have a table for people to play on while waiting for the install to get done.

Also agree with doing trailer hitches. In addition to other uses, there are a lot of trailer hitch bike racks these days. The only time I used a rack store around here was to install a hitch. If the hitch is going to be used for towing then the install needs to also do wiring for the trailer lights.

I’ve installed my racks myself and am pretty handy. However, I haven’t done one that required drilling into my car’s roof. That might drive me to use a specialist.

I wonder if there is any room in that business for selling Spring Creek racks. That would separate you from other businesses.

Good luck!
 
04/29/2022 06:19AM  
All thoughts considered and much appreciated.

Thanks a million for your input guys and gals.

Have a great weekend! scat
 
schwartyman
senior member (70)senior membersenior member
 
04/29/2022 09:38AM  
Seems like a great idea.

Possibly consider having an inventory of rentals, varying from different sports/needs.

Friends and I took a road trip to CO to ski this winter. Rather than Spending $500+ on an enclosed ski carrier we found a person renting them on Facebook Marketplace. For 5 days of having his carrier, he charged us $70, which was very reasonable after we split that cost amongst us. He required that he installed/took it off, which makes sense. It went extremely smooth and was very convenient for us.
 
PaddlePretty
 
05/08/2022 12:47PM  
I have been looking for a place to install (and customize) racks for my car. However, I 100% would never shop at a place with the name you suggest and I'm frankly exhausted by the dumb bro culture that is everywhere in the paddling world.
 
05/08/2022 02:20PM  
Thank you for your thoughts. At this point I’m not so concerned about the name of the company as I am the viability of the business idea, which is why I posted here. Funny thing is perhaps, my girlfriend came up with the name, and she is a strong minded independent woman, you betcha, and that is one of the things I adore most about her. She ain’t no bro I can tell you that. Can’t please everyone, should I be offended when a waitress calls me honey, which is common, not happenin. Something tells me if I call you honey when serving you a drink, look out, I’m in the office with management getting a lecture on sexual harassment.

Cheers, scat
 
05/12/2022 08:28PM  






Saw this today, thought I’d share. Some aren’t so easily offended. Just sayin.
 
missmolly
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05/26/2022 07:21AM  
Have you made any progress on your business idea, Scat? I think it'd be a great business because you'd get to work with your hands, but you'd get to work atop a car and not under it, where it's greasy and rusted.
 
05/27/2022 11:10AM  
Nice of you to ask mm. Haven’t made any progress, had to square away my regular gig, just switched companies to sell lumber for. I won’t even tell you how many outfits I’ve been with, tough business, at last count 7 lumberyards I have worked for have gone out of business. The last one was just a joke, but hopefully this is my last stop. Really happy the way it has worked out so far, but this was my first week with them so the poop hasn’t gotten close enough to the fan to make a mess yet.
I hear ya on working on cars. I hate cars, and I’m sure as heck not busting up my knuckles and getting grease under my fingernails. I think Nice Rack is a viable business idea and I’m going to start working on it now that I have my regular sitch figured out. And you will be getting a T shirt haha.
 
missmolly
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05/27/2022 01:30PM  
Keep us posted, okay, Scat? I've interviewed hundreds of entrepreneurs over the years for various magazines and I've always admired their derring-do. I like their can-do too.

Launching a business is like launching a battleship at Pearl Harbor on the morning of December 7, 1941. The sky is filled with steel and fire and the water is rife with oil and torpedoes, but damn those torpedoes! Full speed ahead!
 
ockycamper
distinguished member(906)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/28/2022 01:17PM  
You asked for thoughts. . .

I have owned many businesses, the current one for 23 years. The key to sucess frankly comes right out of the Bible. . . .treat others as you would like to be treated. If somone (probably several in this case) would be offended by the name, you need to step back and ask why you are willing to lose sales for the sake of being edgy? At the end of the day, there comes a time when we are no longer 19 and are called on to run businesses like professionals.

Just my two cents.
 
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