I have a MNII and more recently added a MN III, I have been using a 50" bent shaft paddle in the back and a 52" bent shaft in the front. We paddle long and hard and have the middle person also paddling. To date I have used a 52" wooden bent shaft in the middle (left over from when I upgrade from wood to carbon fiber) but the middle paddler has a difficult time getting a good stroke while still keeping their weight balanced in the middle of the canoe. Looking at the options from Wenonha I can get a 54" bent shaft or a 55" straight shaft. I am leaning toward the bent shaft although I'm not sure there is really that much efficiency gain from the middle seat. The bent shaft option would provide the opportunity to reposition paddles to accommodate different height crew members. The alternative point of view, expressed by my paddling buddy, is that some find it easier to guide with a straight shaft so having a straight shaft in the mix could be an advantage. I argue that if the straight is ever repositioned to the rear it would likely be too long and we would be back to a too short paddle for the middle person. I am sure I am over thinking this but does anyone have guidance to the best paddle for the middle position in a MN III. By way of information all of my past and likely future crew are about the same height of around 5'8"

I use the same length paddle irregardless of which position. All seats in the hull are the same distance above the bottom of the canoe so paddle length should be constant for any given paddler. The shaft of the paddle should be vertical for the sake of efficiency and directional consistency (a longer paddle suggests that you are paddling at an angle). In a seated position a bent, when wielded properly, offers considerable gains in efficiency and the opportunity for a much lighter paddle.

It is difficult to sit centered and reach the water with the paddle vertical. It just is not going to happen. A longer shaft is appropriate. We use a custom made 57 inch bent with a 7 degree angle. Sure you don't get the most efficient stroke, but it adds something to the effort. It helps if the middle seat is high, right at the gunnel.

The ideal situation would be to have the bow and middle seats be regular laced or web seats with the filled area all the way out to the ends. That way the bow and middle paddlers can sit off the center on opposite sides and achieve balance. Of course then you cannot switch paddling sides without moving. When we paddled big fur trade canoes we switched sides every 30 minutes. The stern paddler can switch at will.

I do not find the MNII "center" position to be that far of a reach. The seat is located well aft of center.

I don't know the protocol but I wanted to reply to all of this helpful information. First, I wanted to clarify that we have not found the middle position in the MN III to be unworkable it just seems like we might not be getting full efficiency. I can see how paddlers with slightly longer torsos or arms might not notice any issues. The comments that the real issue is the angle of the paddle are very useful. Thinking through it, I totally agree and I can see that a longer paddle may not solve that issue. I also concur with, and have appreciated the efficiency gain with bent shaft paddles. I had just noted that our middle paddlers are not able to get a full stroke due to reach and are often pulling the paddle out of the water before that "sweet spot" at the end of the stroke where the bent shaft paddle really excels. However, I agree a bent shaft in the middle position is likely to have an efficiency gain even if that differential is slightly less than in our front and rear positions. The comments also made me realize I have no scientific rationale for using different paddle lengths for the front and rear positions. When I bought my MN II I got the same paddles as my buddy who had a MN II so I just assumed slightly different paddle lengths for front and rear were optimal. Perhaps we just got used to the lengths we have.

In any case thanks for the helpful comments. I will probably get a 54" bent shaft on the logic that a slightly longer paddle will not hurt and if gives us more options to switch paddles around for shorter and taller paddlers. I don't think I want to reconfigure my middle seat but I will have to look into options for getting the middle paddler a little higher so that they can get a more vertical stroke. At any speed, a trip up Quetico is a great journey!

When using a bent shaft the stroke should finish before the shaft of the paddle or the lower hand passes the hip or upper thigh of the paddler, Aft of the hip the blade of the paddle is no longer vertical and some of the force of your stroke pulls the hull into the water, wasted energy that increases the friction of the hull. The stroke can be lengthened by reaching forward on the grab but only to the extent that this reach does not disrupt the stability of the hull or paddler. I find that inexperienced paddlers often choose paddles that are too long which can be quite a hinderance for establishing a smooth, effortless stroke. I suggest watching video of flatwater racers, you will be surprised by the relative shortness of the stroke (not to mention the speed of their cadence).

Are you talking about putting a 3rd seat in the MN2 or are you talking about a MN3 which comes with the 3rd seat and is installed in a wider area of the canoe, thus suggesting the need for a longer paddle for that paddler if sitting center on the seat, or a regular length paddle if sitting left or right of center?

I checked out some flat water canoe racing videos and you are correct about the stroke length. All I can say about the cadence is "Wow"

Mocha: "Are you talking about putting a 3rd seat in the MN2 or are you talking about a MN3 which comes with the 3rd seat and is installed in a wider area of the canoe, thus suggesting the need for a longer paddle for that paddler if sitting center on the seat, or a regular length paddle if sitting left or right of center?"

I was referring to the existing middle seat in the MN III. The middle paddler can shift off center but that throughs the canoe out of balance. I have been using the same paddle from my MN II but as I now considering an additional carbon fiber paddle I started to ponder the best size. I am concluding from the comments that a slightly longer bent shaft might help but the real issue is that the middle paddler can not maintain a vertical stroke from the center of the canoe. I am also starting to realize I may need to examine my stroke and see if my form is correct.

Mocha: "Are you talking about putting a 3rd seat in the MN2 or are you talking about a MN3 which comes with the 3rd seat and is installed in a wider area of the canoe, thus suggesting the need for a longer paddle for that paddler if sitting center on the seat, or a regular length paddle if sitting left or right of center?"

I was referring to the existing middle seat in the MN III. The middle paddler can shift off center but that throughs the canoe out of balance. I have been using the same paddle from my MN II but as I now considering an additional carbon fiber paddle I started to ponder the best size. I am concluding from the comments that a slightly longer bent shaft might help but the real issue is that the middle paddler can not maintain a vertical stroke from the center of the canoe. I am also starting to realize I may need to examine my stroke and see if my form is correct.

How about a kayak paddle for the middle paddler?

Mocha: "How about a kayak paddle for the middle paddler?"

I thought about that, I just wasn't sure of the power and efficiency relative to paddling. Maybe someone has some experience and can share their insights.

I was also pondering a kayak paddle for the middle. A long paddle used with a low angle could work. A thing to think about is whether they would interfere with the stern paddler (or bow if they are forward if the middle). Because they are always paddling on both sides they can’t just be on the other side as their nearest neighbor.

Getting a longer paddle for a wider part of the boat is a reasonable idea. The width of a kayak is a factor in choosing paddle length. But it is still a secondary factor to the paddler’s height and arm length. So it is hard to hone it too finely unless you are all the same size or will always stay in the same seats. For you, sounds like people are similar in size.

Could be interesting to see what people in 3 to 4 person race boats do. Could ask a paddle company such as ZRE if they have advice. They fine tuned our paddle lengths to our favorite canoe.

But in the end, it’s a wilderness trip and not a race. So the benefits of fine tuning may not be too important. When we’ve used 3 person canoes we just fitted each paddle to the people. But we are slow and steady.

It's not unreasonable to use a longer paddle if you're having difficulty getting over the gunnel from a center seat, but it's also a sign your form isn't peak efficiency. The MN II/III boats are built to make this easier.

Many factors go into finding the best paddle length including your physiology, seat hight and how light or heavy you've loaded the boat. Experiments and experience are the only ways to tell what will work best for you. Being a step long or short shouldn't be a trip-killer.

I say don't paddle at all! Let the other shmucks do all the work. Kick your feet up. Enjoy the ride. ??

I say don't paddle at all! Let the other shmucks do all the work. Kick your feet up. Enjoy the ride. ??

Most often, when the middle person in a 3-man tries to help with the paddling, they need to lean out so far that it becomes unstable, at least to the point that your line of travel becomes less than optimal.

schweady: "Most often, when the middle person in a 3-man tries to help with the paddling, they need to lean out so far that it becomes unstable, at least to the point that your line of travel becomes less than optimal.
"

Not true with a MNIII- "center" seat is well aft of middle of the canoe and paddling is not a reach for most paddlers.

Banksiana: "

schweady: "Most often, when the middle person in a 3-man tries to help with the paddling, they need to lean out so far that it becomes unstable, at least to the point that your line of travel becomes less than optimal.
"

Not true with a MNIII- "center" seat is well aft of middle of the canoe and paddling is not a reach for most paddlers."

There you go. Never been in one. Might have to try. Experiences limited to Souris and Bell/Northstar.

Just out of interest, I took images of a MN III and an SR Q18.5 off of the company websites and measured the width at the gunwales across the forward edge of each seat. Here's what I get:

MN III: bow seat 17", middle seat 32", stern seat 19".
SR Q18.5: bow seat 25", middle seat 34.4", stern seat 23".

I find it interesting that the biggest differences are in the bow and stern seats rather than the middle seats. Given the small difference in the middle seats, I think experience in paddle selection for the two canoes can be applied to the others. A bigger difference with someone shifting side to side would be the stability of the canoes.

I would get a 60” straight paddle, good to go. Was looking at the MN III on the Wenonah website, man that looks tight for the person in front. I’d volunteer for the middle seat.