The system is being over run

Somewhere in the timeline of the DNR's move to make the system more equitable, the intended improvements got off the rails. And then some.

A glitch in the online reservation system allows campsite-seekers to sweep up more days than they should.

Campers currently go online to see what sites are available 120 days out. What some are doing frequently is booking 120 days out, plus 14 days more. The system unintentionally allows users to extend that reservation to two weeks on a single campsite.

Just like the BWCA reservation system works great, but some abuse the system by over booking etc.

Note: I am sure some will have problem opening this article.

Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!

bobbernumber3: "Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!"

I think some or many don't intend to stay that long or they book a date and reserve and they don't show up for a few days later.

Seems to me the solution to this is pretty simple. Give limited or no refunds and cancel entire reservations if you don't show up for the first night. People would get mad but as long as the rules are up front that's their problem.

bobbernumber3: "Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!"

If they want to show up for the 13th/14th, they book for the 1st and the 2 weeks following. That allows them to beat the people who were waiting until 120 days before the 13th. Then later they just cancel the 2 weeks leading up to the dates they actually wanted, but might not do that until it is too late for someone to use it.

I have never understood the benefit of the "can't reserve until 120 days out". Why not just have a date that opens up all the reservations for the year at once like with BWCA permits.

questions

straighthairedcurly: "

bobbernumber3: "Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!"

If they want to show up for the 13th/14th, they book for the 1st and the 2 weeks following. That allows them to beat the people who were waiting until 120 days before the 13th. Then later they just cancel the 2 weeks leading up to the dates they actually wanted, but might not do that until it is too late for someone to use it.


I have never understood the benefit of the "can't reserve until 120 days out". Why not just have a date that opens up all the reservations for the year at once like with BWCA permits. "

wow,if that is what they are doing

Pinetree: "

straighthairedcurly: "

bobbernumber3: "Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!"

If they want to show up for the 13th/14th, they book for the 1st and the 2 weeks following. That allows them to beat the people who were waiting until 120 days before the 13th. Then later they just cancel the 2 weeks leading up to the dates they actually wanted, but might not do that until it is too late for someone to use it.



I have never understood the benefit of the "can't reserve until 120 days out". Why not just have a date that opens up all the reservations for the year at once like with BWCA permits. "

wow,if that is what they are doing"

That is exactly what they are doing. And they can because there is no penalty for doing so. If/when they cancel the time they don't want, they get a refund. I don't blame them for figuring out the weakness of the system, but I do judge their morals as being less then stellar. I will be really curious as to what the fixes are that the DNR puts in place.

This overbooking is really a problem for the popular state parks, such as the ones along the North Shore, Itasca, Whitewater. Plenty of other campsites around the state in obscure, not used much, state parks. I got a canoe-in site for next weekend that I just booked last week.

Minnesotian: "
That is exactly what they are doing. And they can because there is no penalty for doing so. If/when they cancel the time they don't want, they get a refund. I don't blame them for figuring out the weakness of the system, but I do judge their morals as being less then stellar. I will be really curious as to what the fixes are that the DNR puts in place.


This overbooking is really a problem for the popular state parks, such as the ones along the North Shore, Itasca, Whitewater. Plenty of other campsites around the state in obscure, not used much, state parks. I got a canoe-in site for next weekend that I just booked last week. "

It also wouldn't surprise me if they, or a friend are reserving campsites next door to the one they occupy the same way and then cancelling them so they will not have any neighbors.

I booked a hike in site at Wild River SP back on Friday, April 21. There was only 1 site available that day, so I took it. Every other site appeared to be booked online. This was all on a whim, so I booked it the same day.

I didn't end up getting there until about 7pm. I was the only vehicle in the parking lot at the trailhead by the Visitor Center and I was the only vehicle there when I hiked out the next morning around 8am.

I didn't go check the other sites in case there were people there, and I'm making an assumption here that people are gaming the system, but that was a head scratcher.

IMO - mandatory first night stay would solve the issue of booking two weeks out to secure a weekend at the end of the reservable period. This would not correct the problem of more people looking to camp at state park campgrounds. To fix that issue, the parks could increase rates until demand met supply, reduce the maximum stay length and limit the number of days you are allowed to camp at a select number of parks per season. I'd imagine that they will use a mixture of those three.

LOL, this just figured this out now? You can't get a reservation now unless you can afford to book out weeks in advance and float the money until they refund you. It cut out a lot of people. I haven't been camping in a state park in a few years now because of it. The old system was fine. The sights saved for people who showed up that day worked well. But they also made camping cabins unaffordable. If I can stay at an Airbnb for less than a camping cabin with no bathroom or running water, then there is something wrong with their fees.

OHPaddler: "IMO - mandatory first night stay would solve the issue of booking two weeks out to secure a weekend at the end of the reservable period. This would not correct the problem of more people looking to camp at state park campgrounds. To fix that issue, the parks could increase rates until demand met supply, reduce the maximum stay length and limit the number of days you are allowed to camp at a select number of parks per season. I'd imagine that they will use a mixture of those three."

All this would do is make camping in a state park only for the rich.

straighthairedcurly: "
I have never understood the benefit of the "can't reserve until 120 days out". Why not just have a date that opens up all the reservations for the year at once like with BWCA permits. "

The old system was better. Book out one year in advance. This made it so certain sights were always booked (like on Mother's Day), but it made the other sights more accessible. What they have now only works for those who can afford it. The sights for just driving up were good too. You could usually find at least one sight on the weekend if you had a backup plan. But that option is gone now.

Minnesotian: "

Pinetree: "

straighthairedcurly: "

bobbernumber3: "Isn't this a feature of the system? If I want a two week reservation starting June 1, I login on June 1 and book for 2 weeks... I don't wait till the 14th!"

If they want to show up for the 13th/14th, they book for the 1st and the 2 weeks following. That allows them to beat the people who were waiting until 120 days before the 13th. Then later they just cancel the 2 weeks leading up to the dates they actually wanted, but might not do that until it is too late for someone to use it.



I have never understood the benefit of the "can't reserve until 120 days out". Why not just have a date that opens up all the reservations for the year at once like with BWCA permits. "

wow,if that is what they are doing"

That is exactly what they are doing. And they can because there is no penalty for doing so. If/when they cancel the time they don't want, they get a refund. I don't blame them for figuring out the weakness of the system, but I do judge their morals as being less then stellar. I will be really curious as to what the fixes are that the DNR puts in place.


This overbooking is really a problem for the popular state parks, such as the ones along the North Shore, Itasca, Whitewater. Plenty of other campsites around the state in obscure, not used much, state parks. I got a canoe-in site for next weekend that I just booked last week. "

I'll admit that this is what the activity chair for our scout troop does. When the system was first put in place, we couldn't even get close to any of the parks that the boys wanted to go to. Once she figured out how to time things, we managed to get a few of the requested group sites, but still got beat out many times.

Also with such demand we don't need people staying at one park or campsite for Two Weeks. Limit it to 7 days on one permit.

I went up to Wild River State Park mid week last week without a campsite reservation. Granted I had checked online, the electric sites were full but the non electric had 15 or 20 open into the weekend. Not knowing much about the sites I drove up and told the ranger I wanted to drive through the campground and pick out a site. She provided me with a list of all the ones open for the days I wanted to stay.

Plenty of good options and I picked a campsite I really liked. I stayed through Saturday afternoon and there were still several sites available.

Admittedly it is harder than it used to be but often not impossible as long as you're not trying to book one of the most popular parks on a weekend or worse yet, a holiday. Camping midweek helps a lot too.

OHPaddler: "IMO - mandatory first night stay would solve the issue of booking two weeks out to secure a weekend at the end of the reservable period. This would not correct the problem of more people looking to camp at state park campgrounds. To fix that issue, the parks could increase rates until demand met supply, reduce the maximum stay length and limit the number of days you are allowed to camp at a select number of parks per season. I'd imagine that they will use a mixture of those three."

Thats a good solution. Don't allow people to cancel their first nights stay & they must be present for the remainder of the permit to be valid. Seems like an easy fix actually.

And the fact that they call it a glitch is just funny lol its literally how its supposed to work but the fact people just book extra days ahead and then cancel the extra days not needed to beat out the people for the weekend they actually want.

Design the system so that if you cancel the first day, your entire reservation is canceled and the site you canceled is not available to you till next year. If site is not occupied on the first day, your reservation is canceled.

Pinetree: "Also with such demand we don't need people staying at one park or campsite for Two Weeks. Limit it to 7 days on one permit."

14 days is a normal time limit across the country.

What if you can still cancel, but if you cancel, it automatically cancels the weekends? Weekends must remain on the original request. But I know some people will reserve the entire thing and only show up for the weekends, thus making weekends only for the rich again.

15 years ago I never had a problem getting a nonelectric campsite on any day of the week. Now I don't even try to get a nonelectric campsite on a weekend on less it is before memorial day or after labor day! It sure took the spontaneity away from my vacations.
It also seems that parks have fewer and fewer nonelectric campsites also.
I suppose there is more money to made with the more expensive electric sites.

Captn Tony: "15 years ago I never had a problem getting a nonelectric campsite on any day of the week. Now I don't even try to get a nonelectric campsite on a weekend on less it is before memorial day or after labor day! It sure took the spontaneity away from my vacations.
It also seems that parks have fewer and fewer nonelectric campsites also.
I suppose there is more money to made with the more expensive electric sites."

AGREE, I think the tide is swinging toward the modern mobile trailers, electric hookups and WiFi.
The simple topper campers and tent camper is intimidated going to a park.
On a weekend or even during week, I see more fancy trailers than boats go thru Brainerd.

All I can say is that when I want to go do some camping and enjoy the northwoods I always find a spot.

We gave up on camping MN state parks a few years ago. Even if you can get a site they're packed too close together and overpriced (no wonder people try to prevent sites next to them from being occupied). You're better off looking for a good privately run campground or municipal, national forest campground, etc.

Don't get me started on the shift to electric sites, full hookups, etc. Why even go camping? Sheesh.

keth, I think it depends on time of year and what state park you go to. There are some with secluded campsites, some with nice quiet walk in(or paddle in) campsites and some with a Jellystone Park feel to them. Camping mid week helps a lot, weekends are almost always full but even then in the dozen or so well organized campgrounds you can enjoy some feeling of solitude. I wouldn't write them off, many are beautiful with great fishing, hiking, photography and relaxing opportunities.

lindylair: "keth, I think it depends on time of year and what state park you go to. There are some with secluded campsites, some with nice quiet walk in(or paddle in) campsites and some with a Jellystone Park feel to them. Camping mid week helps a lot, weekends are almost always full but even then in the dozen or so well organized campgrounds you can enjoy some feeling of solitude. I wouldn't write them off, many are beautiful with great fishing, hiking, photography and relaxing opportunities. "

I'm not saying the parks themselves aren't worth visiting. We just choose not to camp in them anymore. I think our most recent experiences are based off of experiences in campgrounds along the north shore (Jay Cooke and north) because we live in northernmost WI so that's mainly where we travel through. Those parks are probably busier than most others, but that's been our experience. In many places you can drive another 20 mins or so to a different campground outside the state parks and have a better experience for less money.

They should use the system Texas uses to book sites. It's not perfect either but to get 3 days a? one campsite we had to log in every morning and book for the next day after the reservation window opened. It's a pain, but it prevents the abuse of the system you are talking about. I'm glad we are not still trying to book scout trips, weekends are impossible to get now.
We use electric sites in a tent. I don't like the thought of holing up in an RV when my goal is to spend time outdoors, but we do make use of the electricity and water on site. We have an oven/ stove that runs on gas cylinders, but have a small coffee maker with a metal carafe, an electric kettle to boil water, and an induction cooktop so we can use less hydrocarbons and they make life easier. Roughing it is fine if it is all you can or want to do, but it pays to be versatile and use the tools available at any given place.