We head in Tuesday and I have been watching the forecast. The last several days have had "critical fire conditions". The MN DNR Fire Restrictions map has been changing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if a fire ban is declared prior to Tuesday.

Tuesday - Friday there is a chance of rain/thunderstorms daily. I suppose that means the humidity levels will be increasing.

We are planning on wood fired pizza for one meal. I am considering pivoting to something different.

I tend to overthink things and I probably am here as well :-)

D

Fire reported south of Ely today

I saw fire trucks and ambulance headed down the new tomahawk out of Babbitt this evening.

egknuti: "I saw fire trucks and ambulance headed down the new tomahawk out of Babbitt this evening. "

The feds posted this on Facebook about an hour ago:

"The MN DNR coordinated the response to a wildfire that started on state lands near Slate Lake (near Highway 1 and the Stoney River) this afternoon (5/27/23). This is a different wildfire than the one southwest of the City of Ely. Numerous aircraft were dispatched to drop water on the fire. Last report had the size estimated at 10 acres and the aircraft response had been effective."

It is getting dry but I wonder if ample rain stays in the forecast, a fire ban will be averted.

Interesting though that there is still a lot of water just below the surface in Duluth. I dug a hole behind my shop for a shed post and my three foot hole filled up with water right away. The ground is still saturated.

Of course things are different on the Canadian Shield where it is mostly rock and very little top soil.
Tom

tumblehome: "It is getting dry but I wonder if ample rain stays in the forecast, a fire ban will be averted.


Interesting though that there is still a lot of water just below the surface in Duluth. I dug a hole behind my shop for a shed post and my three foot hole filled up with water right away. The ground is still saturated.


Of course things are different on the Canadian Shield where it is mostly rock and very little top soil.
Tom"

Just guessing but a few factors that might influence a fire ban decision is that the soil has plenty of moisture so there isn't so much danger of a campfire crawling away in the duff layer. Also there are ample firefighting resources available, unlike 2021 when there were big fires everywhere. Plus green up helps too.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

The ground is still pretty soaked up there.

MN Drought Monitor



That said, if the wind is whipping up along the border, I could see a fire ban being issued to keep campfire embers and ashes from being picked up and carried into dried-out duff down the line somewhere. I'd love to hear from the firefighting (wildfire especially) experts among us. I'm sure that there is concern over high winds.

IMHO, I do not think we will see Fire Restrictions until it is determined how much precipitation we get this coming Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Then it will probably be a week or two before any restrictions take effect, if it continues to be dry.

Remember, fire restrictions do not always start with a fire ban, they often start with limited times that fires are allowed. Usually between the hours of 6 pm and 8-10 am.

This is one link that fire managers use to determine fire danger indexes.

I just came out. The four days I was up there the winds were consistently out of the south at 5-10 with gusts up to 15. All day, everyday.

Topsoil is dry and near dusty.

JW

Yes... be ready for a fire ban.

Red Flag Warning

Same. The wind was a real buzzkill this trip. I had one fire on Wednesday and that was it then decided I wasn’t comfortable with the fire+wind. The ground may be wet/damp still but everything else was super dry.

LindenTree: "IMHO, I do not think we will see Fire Restrictions until it is determined how much precipitation we get this coming Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Then it will probably be a week or two before any restrictions take effect, if it continues to be dry.


Remember, fire restrictions do not always start with a fire ban, they often start with limited times that fires are allowed. Usually between the hours of 6 pm and 8-10 am.


This is one link that fire managers use to determine fire danger indexes. "

Thank you for your input LindenTree. Helps put my mind at ease. We will definitely be cautious when we make our steaks over the campfire night 1. Might pivot and make pizza for supper instead of lunch which isnt a big deal at all.

D

I am going into Kawishiwi in the morning tomorrow, and the ranger at the station In Tofte said it is ungodly dry for this time of year with temps 10-15 degree higher than normal and high winds.

Headed to Insula in the AM and lady at ranger station sounded pretty confident that without rain in near future fires only after 8 pm would be implemented soon. It was her personal recommendation now.
Bugs are not bad at S Kawish campground. Just your normal bugs for late May , though was up just 10 days ago and world of difference.

Have a good trip guys. I'll be interested to hear how things go this week for you both up there. Hopefully the scattered thunderstorms/rain showers predicted for Tues - Thursday will spread a bit of needed moisture up north for you all.

A few fires by Little Falls this weekend. One 100 acres. I don't know if it was just a grass fire or what?

Rain is heading up that way this morning/afternoon. Hopefully it'll be enough to squelch anything that ignited.

Raining cats and dogs in Goodland and heading that way...

nctry: "Raining cats and dogs in Goodland and heading that way..."

It was a rain in Brainerd-a small area got a lot, the rest zero.

Update on the statewide (MN) fire danger burning restrictions, here.

thanks for the link

According to the Ely Municipal Airport, we got about 3/4" of rain last night, which is a huge help. Unfortunately, the "rain every day" 10-day forecast changed and it only looks like a small chance of rain Friday the 2nd, Monday the 5th and Thursday the 8th. I would not be surprised if we saw fire restrictions in the BWCA in the next week and potentially a ban if we don't see any significant rain in the next two weeks. I am headed out this Thurs-Mon and I won't be having fires during the daylight hours, regardless of the status of fire restrictions this weekend-I would recommend we all limit/eliminate any unnecessary fires.
Stay safe out there!

Quetico is starting a fire ban tomorrow.

adam: "
Quetico is starting a fire ban tomorrow."

Dang that stinks. My first Q trip is June 7. I don't have the heart to tell my trip partners yet.

We have some rain coming at us... I had to laugh, my weather forecast updated with everything correct except it says July 1st. Haha!

Probably should not bring my twig stove this year. Hopefully the BW and Q get some rain soon.

Getting closer to fire ban

small burn

Very old post-but history does repeat itself:

Pinetree
05/25/2021 03:05PM
Lot of speculating on my part, but the trend looks like a very hot summer and super dry. Get that gas stove out if this trend continues.

Whitewolf your forecast is welcome.

In 1976, peat bogs were burning down 20 feet due to lack of moisture which is usually present at the surface. Out west, after record fire season, this year is starting out worst in many western states.

One good sign, bugs were almost zero in the summer.

We go through this every year. After the snow melt runs off and before it really greens up, there are always concerns of a fire ban. If there is one, it only lasts a week or two. By the time the 3rd week of June rolls around, when I usually go on my trip, the fire risk drops to Low and there are no issues. In 10 years, I have never had an issue with a fire ban in this timeframe.

I'm more concerned about mid July and later. That is when it can get hot and a fire ban is much more likely.

Quetico

I think tomorrow they are going to have prescribed burns in the Isabella area-total 500 acres.

Pinetree: "Very old post-but history does repeat itself:

In 1976, there was a fire ban that changed into a total ban on people entering the BWCA.
Pinetree
05/25/2021 03:05PM
Lot of speculating on my part, but the trend looks like a very hot summer and super dry. Get that gas stove out if this trend continues.


Whitewolf your forecast is welcome.


In 1976, peat bogs were burning down 20 feet due to lack of moisture which is usually present at the surface. Out west, after record fire season, this year is starting out worst in many western states.


One good sign, bugs were almost zero in the summer."

Pinetree: "Very old post-but history does repeat itself:


Pinetree
05/25/2021 03:05PM
Lot of speculating on my part, but the trend looks like a very hot summer and super dry. Get that gas stove out if this trend continues.

One good sign, bugs were almost zero in the summer."

Very true. I recorded only 0.35 inches of rain during the entire month of May after a very wet December to April north of Two Harbors. The landscape has really dried out.

Pinetree: "I think tomorrow they are going to have prescribed burns in the Isabella area-total 500 acres."

I heard the prescribed fire is by Dumbell Lake and the 172/Wanless road.
If the USFS is doing prescribed fires, they will not be implementing fire restrictions any time soon (IMO). I think Isabella got around .35 inches of rain over Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday/.

Can someone clarify for me. Based on this map are there currently any restrictions? Do we need a special "variance" permit for fires in the BWCA currently or no?

Campfires itself your Okay statewide now. The USFS within the BWCA can always have a different status also.

MN DNR live

This does not bode well for the great lakes region of MI, WI and MN including the BWCA. It isn't very often that the predicted fire danger for the summer is worse in MN than many places out west.

Predictive Services fire danger for the USA summer 2023

LindenTree: "This does not bode well for the great lakes region of MI, WI and MN including the BWCA. It isn't very often that the predicted fire danger for the summer is worse in MN than many places out west.


Predictive Services fire danger for the USA summer 2023 "

Thanks for the info.

I know the last 5 weeks in north central Minnesota temperatures have been like 10-15 degrees above normal and here in Brainerd about 1 inch of rain for the last 5 weeks. Lucky the swamps were full of water from this winter, but they are dropping fast,

Everyone do your rain dances!

Hammertime: "Everyone do your rain dances!"

Looks like rain coming from the north. Hopefully it helps.

Gunflint trail had a small fire mid trail yesterday.

It's not looking good for then next 8 to 14 days in terms of heat and dryness:

North America Temperature Outlook for next 2 weeks

I though the first map on this site was unnerving (40 year historical trend temp wise for North America), page down until you see the outlooks for heat and precipitation for CONUS.

At least it cooled a bit. What a great night last night.

nctry: "At least it cooled a bit. What a great night last night."

Yes it was a great night and we got our biggest rain in 4 weeks east of Brainerd- .05 inches

I just got back from Kawashiwi to Sawbill via the lady chain.
It is drier than a popcorn fart out there.

I just got back from Kawashiwi to Sawbill via the lady chain.
It is drier than a popcorn fart out there.

LindenTree: "I just got back from Kawashiwi to Sawbill via the lady chain.
It is drier than a popcorn fart out there."

What is scary no precipitation of any amount for at least two weeks and there upping the temperatures for the long-term forecast.

Maybe Linden you will have to come out of retirement?

I'll be entering on the 18th. Hopefully there will be rain b4 then.

If not I doubt I will have a fire, even if there is no fire ban.

airmorse: "I'll be entering on the 18th. Hopefully there will be rain b4 then.


If not I doubt, I will have a fire, even if there is no fire ban."

Smart, it stays light until 10 pm anyway. Without a fire I feel more in touch with the woods, it is nice.

I remember building a fire when its cold and a little damp and also when wood has almost zero moisture and it is hot. Boy, you get a match next to the dry wood and it literally explodes.

It looks like some rain is heading that way. Let's hope it makes it!

Quetico Weather

Excellent! We go into the Q on 6/17.

HighnDry: "It looks like some rain is heading that way. Let's hope it makes it!


Quetico Weather "

The best chance with that forecast is for 30% on Saturday, as I understand it that means that 30% of the forecast area could see some rain. I would not get up my hopes with that forecast. That kind of precip can often bring lightning with little rain in my 30 year wildland fire fighting career.
One would be better off if there were no rain predicted, rather than 10 - 30% chances.

I agree and I see they are talking about 0.10 inches total of rain thru June 23rd for the Finland area and above normal temps.

I live a few miles east of Grand Marais and even though we got rain we only got 0.01 inches and it's as dry as a bone. If things stay dry we may have issues really soon. Wouldn't be surprised at a campfire ban by next weekend. Everyone be safe out there!

Average June rainfall

This year is going down in record books so far a way below normal.

DNR has a fire ban from Lake Superior to Itasca county. So bring your stoves and be careful. Don’t let linden light his popcorn farts!

nctry: "DNR has a fire ban from Lake Superior to Itasca county. So bring your stoves and be careful. Don’t let linden light his popcorn farts!"

I think you still can have campfires?

campfires maybe still?

SNF fire ban starts 6/14 it appears

cowdoc: "SNF fire ban starts 6/14 it appears"

I'm looking at the SNF website and do not see any information about a campfire ban. Do you have a link for us?

As professional in the weather field- medium to long range computer guidance don't do very well in the summer months ( over done) with forecasting convection ( T-storms) as it's usually very spotty in nature unless a mature cyclone ( more common in like Fall - late Spring) rolls through that has more widespread precip than can last for days.
But at least in the summertime the guidance usually shows where there is a "chance". The following is not good news for the next 7-8 days--(anything further out than 7-8 days in the summer for precip is a real crap shoot)-- and if it comes to fruition-- fire bans are increasingly likely. Just my .02.
First image is the latest Euro guidance followed by the US (GFS) model.



The one good thing going for 2023 compared to 2021 is water levels. I just returned from Insula and stayed at the same campsite as I did in 2021 and at the same time frame. Water levels are up at least 3' compared to the 2021 on the Kawish flowage.At least they were from May 29th through June 3rd.

I didn't see it there either but friend of mine got email from his outfitter stating ban starting 6/14

HERE WE GO:

Northeast Minnesota burning restrictions begin Wednesday, June 14
To help ensure public safety and protect natural resources, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources is activating burning restrictions beginning 12:01 a.m. Wednesday for Carlton, Cook, Lake and St. Louis counties.

In the area affected by the restrictions, burning permits will not be issued for brush or yard waste; no fireworks may be ignited on any public or private land outside city limits (check with the local community for any additional restrictions); and campfires are allowed only in an established fire ring associated with a home, campground, or resort. No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping.

The burning restrictions (files.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/wildfire/commissioner-order-nne-burning-restrictions.pdf) will remain in effect until terminated by the DNR Commissioner when weather and environmental conditions indicate a reduction in fire danger.

Is anyone canceling their permits due to the fire ban effective Wednesday at 12:01am? I’ve got a EP50 that I may cancel.

https://wtip.org/forest-service-enacts-campfire-ban-in-bwca-across-superior-national-forest/

Pinetree: No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping.

where do you see this part? It is not in the official MN DNR order. Or are you just connecting the dots since the only fires allowed are in a residence/dwelling/resort/campground.

jwmiller39: "

Pinetree: No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping.

where do you see this part? It is not in the official MN DNR order. Or are you just connecting the dots since the only fires allowed are in a residence/dwelling/resort/campground."

Its from the just-released Minnesota DNR New issues from a few hours ago. No That is their wording and copy above and below

Minnesota DNR News

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

June 13, 2023

For more information:
Contact the DNR Information Center
by email or call 888-646-6367.

In This Issue
Northeast Minnesota burning restrictions begin Wednesday, June 14
DNR announces lands for sale
Northeast Minnesota burning restrictions begin Wednesday, June 14
To help ensure public safety and protect natural resources, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources is activating burning restrictions beginning 12:01 a.m. Wednesday for Carlton, Cook, Lake and St. Louis counties.

In the area affected by the restrictions, burning permits will not be issued for brush or yard waste; no fireworks may be ignited on any public or private land outside city limits (check with the local community for any additional restrictions); and campfires are allowed only in an established fire ring associated with a home, campground, or resort. No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping.

The burning restrictions (files.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/wildfire/commissioner-order-nne-burning-restrictions.pdf) will remain in effect until terminated by the DNR Commissioner when weather and environmental conditions indicate a reduction in fire danger.

Allissa Reynolds, wildfire prevention supervisor, said while residents and visitors in Carlton, Cook, Lake, and St. Louis counties may still see plenty of green vegetation, the current fire situation remains dangerous. “Unusually dry conditions have increased the risk of fire. One unintentional spark in these conditions could result in thousands of charred acres and property damage,” Reynolds said, “This is a dangerous time for wildfires in northeast Minnesota.”

With little precipitation and more warm weather in the extended forecast statewide, fire danger is likely to remain high into through the end of June. While the DNR and wildfire agencies are ready to respond, Reynolds said the responsibility for preventing fires in the first place largely falls to the public. “We don’t issue burning restrictions lightly. It’s a matter of public safety and resources. Minnesotans have a history of making a difference on wildfire prevention when they keep safety top of mind,” she said.

Fire prevention is a shared responsibility. Checking current fire danger conditions at the DNR statewide fire danger and burning restrictions map (mndnr.gov/forestry/fire/firerating_restrictions.html) and following the fire prevention tips above will help prevent wildfires during high fire danger. People who do spot a wildfire should call 911.

For more information, visit the DNR wildland fire information webpage (mndnr.gov/forestry/fire).

#

Campfires still allowed. This is pulled from the fire ban order --
"Campfires or recreational fires are allowed only in a designated fire receptacle designed for such use
and associated with a residence, dwelling, campground, or resort;"

Thoughts?

NorthernPikeFan: "Campfires still allowed. This is pulled from the fire ban order --
"Campfires or recreational fires are allowed only in a designated fire receptacle designed for such use
and associated with a residence, dwelling, campground, or resort;"


Thoughts?"

Not sure what your asking but it means that you are still allowed to have campfires in the fire rings at campgrounds such as Sawbill but not in the backcountry.

NorthernPikeFan: "Campfires still allowed. This is pulled from the fire ban order --
"Campfires or recreational fires are allowed only in a designated fire receptacle designed for such use
and associated with a residence, dwelling, campground, or resort;"


Thoughts?"

I think this means fires in established campgrounds. No back country fires.

From the release:
"campfires are allowed only in an established fire ring associated with a home, campground, or resort. No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping."

MN Burning Restrictions

I spoke with Canoe Country Outfitters this morning and they confirm NO FIRES in the BWCA for those wondering. They told me the note they got from the Forest Service was very clear that no fires are allowed in the BWCA per the order.

After 40+ trips into the BWCA this will be my 4th time experiencing a ban. Twice I have seen partial bans where fire is only allowed at certain times of day (not the case with the order going into effect tomorrow). This will be the 2nd time seeing a total ban.

A few years back my wife and I had our permit cancelled due to fire.

While I am sad to not have a fire it really does give a different feeling to the wilderness at night that we will embrace. We enter on June 20th right when there will be a new moon. Not having a fire will give me a good excuse to do some star gazing.

Be safe out there!

From the release:
"campfires are allowed only in an established fire ring associated with a home, campground, or resort. No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping."


Since alot of campers in the effected areas are in the bwca, the press release should have specifically stated the restrictions for the Boundary Waters. I don’t really consider the bwca dispersed, remote, or to be backcountry camping, and I’m also not backpacking. They do not provide definitions for these terms for everyone to work from. I could understand from the untrained reader that the notice actually allows fires in the bwca still.

I’ll go back to yelling at the clouds now.

YaMarVa: "From the release:
"campfires are allowed only in an established fire ring associated with a home, campground, or resort. No campfires are allowed for dispersed, remote, backpacking, or backcountry camping."



Since alot of campers in the effected areas are in the bwca, the press release should have specifically stated the restrictions for the Boundary Waters. I don’t really consider the bwca dispersed, remote, or to be backcountry camping, and I’m also not backpacking. They do not provide definitions for these terms for everyone to work from. I could understand from the untrained reader that the notice actually allows fires in the bwca still.

I’ll go back to yelling at the clouds now. "

To clarify:

1. The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources has announced a fire ban.
2. The United States Forest Service has also announced a separate fire ban, the terms of which explicitly ban all campfires in the BWCAW:

"Campfires are allowed ONLY within Forest Service provided campfire structures (fire rings) at designated recreation sites, which include fee campgrounds with campfire structures designed/installed by the Forest Service as well as designated campfire structures at U.S. Forest Service permitted Resorts, Recreation Residences, or Organizational Camps. A list of the designated recreation sites, Resorts, Recreation Residences, or Organizational Camps where campfires are allowed, as shown on Exhibit A in the following areas on the Superior National Forest or on website:
www.fs.usda.gov/superior . The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) designated campsites, no-fee rustic campgrounds, or dispersed/backcountry campsites are NOT exempt from this order."


UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE FOREST SERVICE SUPERIOR NATIONAL FOREST FIRE RESTRICTIONS

From Superior Natl Forest - note it specifically mentions the BWCAW:
Campfires are allowed ONLY within Forest Service provided campfire structures (fire
rings) at designated recreation sites, which include fee campgrounds with campfire
structures designed/installed by the Forest Service as well as designated campfire
structures at U.S. Forest Service permitted Resorts, Recreation Residences, or
Organizational Camps. A list of the designated recreation sites, Resorts, Recreation
Residences, or Organizational Camps where campfires are allowed, as shown on Exhibit
A in the following areas on the Superior National Forest or on website:
www.fs.usda.gov/superior . The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW)
designated campsites, no-fee rustic campgrounds, or dispersed/backcountry campsites are
NOT exempt from this order.
...Gravelroad was quicker than I was....

It's really not that confusing lol why would they implement a fire ban in the SNF but NOT the BWCA... Of course the BWCA is included, probably one of the main factors.

OMGitsKa: "It's really not that confusing lol why would they implement a fire ban in the SNF but NOT the BWCA... Of course the BWCA is included, probably one of the main factors. "

The Superior National Forest manages the BWCA so anything that applies to the forest applies to the BWCA.

scottiebaldwin: "Is anyone canceling their permits due to the fire ban effective Wednesday at 12:01am? I’ve got a EP50 that I may cancel.

https://wtip.org/forest-service-enacts-campfire-ban-in-bwca-across-superior-national-forest/"

Just wondering (not judging) why would you cancel a trip just because of no fires?

The most enjoyable part of the last fire ban I camped in was the sounds of the wilderness during the closing daylight hours. Normally, this would be missed as the group started to migrate to the fire.

Each evening we could hear a blue heron start calling on the opposite side of the lake as the last light hit. It would end up landing in a small bay off our campsite. On the last night, it landed 5 feet from us on shore and just stared at us with its beady eyes. There are many great songs of the wilderness that play this time of night.

wxce1260: "

scottiebaldwin: "Is anyone canceling their permits due to the fire ban effective Wednesday at 12:01am? I’ve got a EP50 that I may cancel.

https://wtip.org/forest-service-enacts-campfire-ban-in-bwca-across-superior-national-forest/"

Just wondering (not judging) why would you cancel a trip just because of no fires?"

Fair question. The answer is that I usually make around four to six trips up per season so I can afford to skip this trip or wait until hopefully the ban is lifted for maximum enjoyment. I find fire meditative and have replaced fishing with wood processing so the cutting, processing, and wood gnoming firewood for myself (and others) is a large part of my enjoyment of the park. I most likely will leave behind the cast iron, the fire grate cookware, etc and just grab a JetBoil, some dehydrated food, and my axes and prioritize the wood processing without enjoying the fruits of my labor in the evening. All will be well.

scottiebaldwin: "

wxce1260: "

scottiebaldwin: "Is anyone canceling their permits due to the fire ban effective Wednesday at 12:01am? I’ve got a EP50 that I may cancel.


https://wtip.org/forest-service-enacts-campfire-ban-in-bwca-across-superior-national-forest/"

Just wondering (not judging) why would you cancel a trip just because of no fires?"

Fair question. The answer is that I usually make around four to six trips up per season so I can afford to skip this trip or wait until hopefully the ban is lifted for maximum enjoyment. I find fire meditative and have replaced fishing with wood processing so the cutting, processing, and wood gnoming firewood for myself (and others) is a large part of my enjoyment of the park. I most likely will leave behind the cast iron, the fire grate cookware, etc and just grab a JetBoil, some dehydrated food, and my axes and prioritize the wood processing without enjoying the fruits of my labor in the evening. All will be well. "

That’s legit. As a parent of 2 young kids who only gets one trip a year I can’t imagine canceling. We went in July 2021 under a ban and had a blast. Less time hanging around the fire led to more late night card games. We have 5 weeks until put in and hoping for rain but will have a blast regardless.

I just saw a post on FB about a fire on Ogish. Anyone know anything?

scotttimm: "I just saw a post on FB about a fire on Ogish. Anyone know anything?"

Spice Lake Fire thread