3 men, 50ish, 10mi/day... looking for 4th to fill out a trip into Wabakimi.

We expect to leave Chicago area early Thurs. Aug. 4 and enter the water about noon, 8/5. We will paddle in through Little Caribou and train out from Shawnabis on FRI, Aug. 12.

If you are interested, just send me an email and I can give you a lot more info.

I sent you an email. Just in case it's blocked.

OK! Uncle Phil's maps arrived today! Looking over them now.. I can't wait!!

How do the maps look? I don't imagine they compare to Fisher or McKenzie just yet, but what can you tell us about them?

http://wabakimi.org/maps/files/DaviesMap.pdf

not intended to be like a Fisher, nor a topo. the portage landings/lengths are accurately marked, as are the campsites, but the maps are not designed to depict the actual portage route or elevation. likewise, the campsite symbol gives no information on size or condition.

the sample map shows a part of paddlefamily's proposed route.

The information looks helpful, especially for planning.

@ Jackfish: The detail is definitely not the same as a Fisher/McKenzie (I have Vol III), but assuming it's accurate, would be very helpful paired with a more detailed map of the topography.

@ jcavenaugh - I hope you still go, even with three people. Keep us posted.

1,2,3, or 4---I'm going.

Jason – Eail bounced back 3 times. Do you have another email address??

quote BWPaddler: "@ Jackfish: The detail is definitely not the same as a Fisher/McKenzie (I have Vol III), but assuming it's accurate, would be very helpful paired with a more detailed map of the topography.


@ jcavenaugh - I hope you still go, even with three people. Keep us posted."

Yes. I've got a set of 1:50000 topos to go with the WP maps. The WP maps show rapids/swifts, cabins, campsites, and portages. Of course, the maps cannot label the rapids C1,2,3 as water levels fluctuate. They also have the train stop locations, e.g. Schultz's Trail. You can get a good idea of distance also. The topos give you elvations and grades. Also, the topos are a much smaller scale and have a lot of shoreline detail. We expect we'll get some maps and notes from Wildwaters. So we should be covered.
Actually, the WP Vol. III would be sufficient to get us all the way through our trip. We will need only 4 pages for our route and I am going to make some photocopies so each boat will have a complete set. And we can write on the photocopies, too. So we'll have annotated maps when we are done.
Of particular importance to us are the locations of the portages and campsites. We expect the portages to be kind of tough to find and with the WP maps we will have a fighting chance at least of finding them fairly quickly. We also want to stick to established campsites as much as possible, so the maps will definitely help in that regard.

The WP maps are scaled 3/8" per kilometer. Then the portages are scaled at much higher resolution than that. They take the portages and project them in their own insets so you have a lot of detail where you need it and less where you don't.
I will have to laminate the pages as it seems the print medium is plain paper and not waterproof.

Actually, I just looked more carefully at the scale. It looks more like 1:100,000.

One more thing...the official topos have lat/long numbers. If anything bad should happen and we needed to call in on a sat-phone we could probably give fairly close coordinates for search/rescue.

We'll have six topos for our route at 1:50000. What size is the paper your topo maps are on (width/length)? How many do you have of your route?

Do you plan to just number them, in order of travel?

Are you bringing a GPS as well?

no gps...
I downloaded my topos and will print in 8.5x11. It's about 12 pages in all.

quote jcavenagh: "no gps...
I downloaded my topos and will print in 8.5x11. It's about 12 pages in all."

website please?

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/index.html
then choose the LIO make a Map feature. You can then choose search and enter the lake name. Once you are looking at a map you can do all sorts of things using the tools... like change your scale, map distances, draw arrows and lines, make notes, etc.
I think you have to get down to around 1:40000 to get contours. Play around with the various layers, natural features, grids, etc.

Thanks!

OK...I just booked us in at Wildwaters up in Armsrong. I cannot wait to get there!

great. i just booked our september trip as well. :)

position has been filled

Wildwaters maps arrived today. They have a complete set of the official topos for our route; 52i5, 6, 11, 12. They also have blow ups on 8.5 x 11 with campsites, rapids, portages, and more noted on them. Campsite and portage notes look like they have some good info for us and also fishing info. We are definitley all set with maps for this trip.
Emailed back and forth with the other guys and we have all our gear between us and then some. 1 canoe to be rented.
Menu is only open element of the trip at this point.
I feel like we have fully planned this one even more than usual.

Menu is mostly settled now.
Now I wait, wait, wait............





and wait some more

I think I'll pack my stuff this weekend and see how that goes.....

What are you planning on eating?

BTW, We just got our maps a week ago. Being that I was in the BW last week and my husband currently is, we're distracted by that right now. So the maps sit waiting. Excited to look them over. Also got the VOL 1 canoe route booklet from Uncle Phil.

Nothing fancy...
Dinners
Steak, COrn on the cob
Pizza
Spaghetti
Mac N Cheese
Beef Stroganoff w/ noodles
Chicken N stuffing w gravy
Red Beans n rice

Lunch - PBJ, Crackers/Sausage/Cheese (Cup O Soup if needed)

Breakfast
Eggs Bacon
Pancakes (Blueberry??)
Oatmeal

Snacks/Drinks
Granola, Gorp
Tea, KoolAid
Liquor

and any fish we can catch...probably breaded n fried

So jealous! I think I'm shooting for next August with entire family, two canoes. The maps sound like they are worth the "going via outfitter" route... yes? Worth it? Still debating whether to try to totally DIY except the shuttle...

BWP- With the Wabakimi Project (WP) maps and official topos, you could do it. It seems there are more campsites shown on the Wildwaters maps than the WP maps. The outfitter maps also have more info about the rapids and some notes about the portages and good fishing spots that aren't on the WP maps. Also on the outfitter maps is info about outposts (mostly fly-in fishing lodges) you might want in case of emergency.
Access into and out of the park are best handled with Wildwaters (shuttle or train) or Mattice Lake (air) if you are using Armstrong as the initial point. I don't know who outfits at the west side of the park.

quote jcavenagh: "BWP- With the Wabakimi Project (WP) maps and official topos, you could do it. It seems there are more campsites shown on the Wildwaters maps than the WP maps. The outfitter maps also have more info about the rapids and some notes about the portages and good fishing spots that aren't on the WP maps. Also on the outfitter maps is info about outposts (mostly fly-in fishing lodges) you might want in case of emergency.
Access into and out of the park are best handled with Wildwaters (shuttle or train) or Mattice Lake (air) if you are using Armstrong as the initial point. I don't know who outfits at the west side of the park.
"

it is easy to self outfit now with the WP maps. plenty of trip reports also available for review. Wildwater maps have had some campsite info that was incorrect. i don't know whether these have been corrected or not. if you overlay the locations on a topo, it's obvious that a campsite was never there, either bog or cliff. one i recall seeing was a campsite location where the contours were 1mm apart on the topo, the site was a steep face of rock rising 30m.

if it's marked on the WP maps, that means boots on the ground.

what he said...The WP maps are made only after actual boots touch the site. And, I believe, that most sites shown on the WP maps have also been tended a bit by the volunteers. I know the portages are cleared by the WP folks, but I seem to recall that campsites are also clean up a bit, too. Is that correct?

As I said above, the fact is, you could do your whole trip with just the WP maps. Those maps provide all the info you NEED to get around the park, i.e. those maps show where the portages are and how long they are. The maps also show rapids, which you want to know.
Since camping is really allowed anywhere, you don't NEED to know where the sites are, but it sure helps. I know the camping ethic shared by us is to use established campsites whenever possible, so the sites on the WP maps are good to have.

quote jcavenagh: "what he said...The WP maps are made only after actual boots touch the site. And, I believe, that most sites shown on the WP maps have also been tended a bit by the volunteers. I know the portages are cleared by the WP folks, but I seem to recall that campsites are also clean up a bit, too. Is that correct?
"

no real recent work by WP crews inside the park. politics. that work is reserved for the First Nation crews, sketchy at best, and the MNR pays dearly for this work. plenty of stories about these crews, and i can tell more than a few myself.

that said, it's still nice to have a chainsaw ahead of you on those portages no matter how poorly motivated the operator.

the WP has been working in the Caribou Forest, Albany River PP, and Ogoki Forest for at least the last five years.

quote jcavenagh: "Since camping is really allowed anywhere, you don't NEED to know where the sites are, but it sure helps. I know the camping ethic shared by us is to use established campsites whenever possible, so the sites on the WP maps are good to have."

not accurate.

this is boreal country, and campsites are scarce in some of this area, including various routes inside the park. opportunities to bushwhack a campsite can also be scarce, and you don't want to do this anyway. my itineraries on some routes are developed only by travel to known campsites along the way. strange to paddle 20 miles without seeing even a fire ring, but that's the way it can be.

the WP maps were not met with universal approval by certain outfitters or even by some paddlers. i have not seen any reports that indicate increased usage since the maps became available.

i would say that on recent trips only 25% of the campsites we used had seen a campfire that season, most had not been used for at least several seasons, and some not used for decades.

JD - Thanks. This is the kind of info I need. Naturally, we don't want to camp unless it is an established site. I was under the misapprehension that one could camp wherever it was possible to so inside the park. I believe we will have no need to camp anywhere other than established sites. We are not really going into the far reaches of the park, so we expect to find sites with firerings already set.
It is my impression that good tent sites can be tough to find up there. So I am using a hammock (tree straps to protect the trees)and one of our group wants to use a one man bivy. The other two will sleep in a free standing tent. So we will not need a lot of nice flat ground for tents.
As for the WP maps, well, that is a resource that I am glad to have. I have been following the political issues between park admin and WP. Like most situations, the relationship seems to blow hot and cold. Hopefully, everyone can achieve the primary goal of preserving the wilderness canoe area. As for the routes into the park, that is a more difficult nut to crack. From my perspective, I would like to see those preserved as well. But I don't live there so I don't have to deal with making a living in that area. MNR has to balance the interests of all concerned, including the logging interests. As the interests of different groups can be diametrically opposed that balancing must be a tough trick to pull off.

the reason i said you don't want to bushwack a campsite is not because you would be doing something improper, it's just that it would be hours of work to create a semblance of space for tents in a way less than ideal location. been there, but not by choice.

not real good hammock country either.


it's interesting to get a google earth view of the area both in and around the park. the area is clearcut right up to the park boundary wherever there's reasonable access.

you can get a pretty good sat view of your route for that matter.

Just one side note - the WP maps, at least from what I understand after speaking to Barry and Uncle Phil a sum total of only three times, those maps include only relevant campsites on either side of a portage - under the theory that they didn't want to have to be the expert in campsites, but people paddling would want to know if they should or should not tackle a particular portage one day. IE will there be a campsite shortly after? or should we stay on this side...

So if you see LESS camps on WP maps, that may be why. They didn't intend to document ALL campsites.

As to traffic because of those maps? Maybe not due to availability of maps, but I was hooked to go after hearing a WP talk two years ago... so they are one more way to publicize the park and they have generated interest.

BW - Thanks. I did not know that. So going with the outfitter is probably a good idea. I would show you an example of one of theirs, but that is probably not cool since that is the info they sell. The folks up there have a hard enough time making a living without me giving away their stuff. Suffice it to say the Wildwaters map annotations have significantly more info than the WP maps and the WP maps have the portage info required. I support both WP and outfitters so I bought both map sets.

As for the accuracy of the Wildwaters campsite locations, well, we'll just have to show up at a site and see. And that is where the adventure part comes in. I really am excited about having to work to find portage landings and campsites.

Interesting info. We bought both the WP maps and the maps from the outfitter. Figured that they would both have helpful info and complement each other.

Yep, the outfitters maps are annotated with lots of info.

quote jdrocks:


i would say that on recent trips only 25% of the campsites we used had seen a campfire that season, most had not been used for at least several seasons, and some not used for decades. "

don't judge campsite use by fire ring useage, some of us do not build fires

quote ZaraSp00k: "

quote jdrocks:



i would say that on recent trips only 25% of the campsites we used had seen a campfire that season, most had not been used for at least several seasons, and some not used for decades. "

don't judge campsite use by fire ring useage, some of us do not build fires"

do you use a tent? do you leave tracks? use an axe or saw? been up there a long time and i'm confident in my assessment of site usage.

if there's grass growing in the fire ring; live lichen on the fire ring rocks; brush, deadfalls, and labrador tea/alders/young spruce present in the ONLY tent pad locations; no evidence of tracks where where there would naturally be foot traffic; and no recent axe/saw work where these tools are commonly used.

some of the main stream routes are used multiple times each week during the season because a certain outfitter sends a bunch of trips down the same portages, while other routes are rarely used. on the well used routes, you may never see a site that hasn't been used recently. in 2009, i saw 20 paddlers from maybe 5 different groups dropped at the same ViaRail siding, man, the outfitter provided a real wilderness experience for those folks, especially since there were very few good campsites for about four paddling days ahead. on the opposite hand, in 2008 we burned wood i left at a campsite the previous year, even though it was the only known campsite for miles in any direction.

jdr -Why do you say its not good hammock country? What is the issue??
Thanks, Jim

quote jcavenagh: "jdr -Why do you say its not good hammock country? What is the issue??
Thanks, Jim"

lack of suitable trees at many campsites. maybe 95% black spruce, some jackpine, aspen. thinking back on the campsites say over the past five years, only 50/50 that you would find a pair of decent trees in a reasonable location relative to the established campsite.

...and i wouldn't want to be back in a poorly rooted black spruce forest if the wind started to blow anyway. those trees are "rooted" in 6" of duff sitting on solid rock. buggy back in there too.

WP crew pulled one of those spruce right out of the ground setting the tarp ridge line. unfortunately, it fell on one of the tents.

I was thinking that is what you were meaning, but I just wanted to be sure.
I'll definitley have a pad with me and if I have to bivy on the ground, then so be it. My hammock has integrated bug netting so I'll be OK either way.
Yeah, I read about that incident with the WP crew a few years back.
Thanks for the info.

Oh, jdr, one more thing, is WCPP also poor country for hammocks? I am guessing it is since it is roughly on the same parallel as Wab.

So is it advisable to take a pole or pair for the tarp at either Wabakimi or WCPP?

quote jcavenagh: "Oh, jdr, one more thing, is WCPP also poor country for hammocks? I am guessing it is since it is roughly on the same parallel as Wab."

WCPP about the same. i recall some sites that are a definite yes, and others a definite no.

both parks have burn areas too, and if you happen to camp in one of those...no big trees. that big fire in WCPP took everything down to bare rock.

coincidently, the WCPP outfitter i used for a shuttle let me take a peek at his master map set even though i was not using or paying for trip planning. i marked up my custom maps with a bunch of campsite locations along my route. guess what? a number of those campsites simply did not exist, and i also used campsites that were not on his maps. as of last season, i think the park has better info to hand out.

quote BillConner01: "So is it advisable to take a pole or pair for the tarp at either Wabakimi or WCPP?"

no, if you need to get creative rigging a tarp you can find something at hand in either park. i've used sites where paddlers have faced the same dilemma and left the rigging poles off to the side.

i do carry 50' of 3/8 braided poly which is a combo ridge/rescue line, and maybe 200' of lighter tie out line which is precut and left tied to the tarp when folded and packed.

Great. Thanks. I have the WCPP park maps that were sent out this last spring and they look pretty good. I think I'll supplement those with official topos. 2012, early August....

quote jcavenagh: "Great. Thanks. I have the WCPP park maps that were sent out this last spring and they look pretty good. I think I'll supplement those with official topos. 2012, early August...."

Maybe I missed it, but what route are you thinking of?

Not really sure yet...maybe Onnie to Glenn then back thru Mexican Hat, Jake, the Lunches, Bunny and out at Leano?? I am hoping to have 2 or 3 14 yr old boys along with their Dads, so that might be a pretty ambitious plan. It is about 50 mi with 35 portages.
Another possibility that looks less travelled would be Onnie, Telescope, Optic, Glenn, Hansen, Rostoul, Cyclops and back. About 60mi and 35 portages.

Going in at Onnie gives a nice long stretch of paddling on Telescope that first day, but there is a 625m portage right at the start.
Another option may be an out and back Leano - Mexican Hat?? Not really sure that would be any easier than the other routes, except that it seems to be much more popular and so the portages are probably more well worn.

Still very early in the planning. I do think I have a commitment from at least one Dad and his boy. They are boy scouts, and the Dad is in pretty good shape (better than me) so I think they may be able to handle the Onnie routes. I definitely want to try and stay on flat water as much as possible.

I see a lot of reports about folks going in at Leano and spending a lot of time around Mexican Hat and Burnt Rock. I'm thinking we might run into fewer other paddlers if we go in at Onnie. My goal is to not see other folks while in the park, to be truly alone out in the wilderness. That may be a little too much to ask for, but I think we can come pretty close. I remember my BW trips from the 70's. We would go days without seeing another person. I want to give that memory to my boy, too.

Our emphasis on canoeing and camping is better suited to a trip like this. We do throw a line in the water, but fishing is not my main thrust on these trips.

quote jcavenagh: "
My goal is to not see other folks while in the park, to be truly alone out in the wilderness."

forget mexican hat then. if you look at your maps, mexican hat is a crossroads lake with routes/portages converging or diverging in all directions. at the height of the season, it would be more like a BWCA experience. very easy to get in and out for inexperienced paddlers, it's a church group destination, for instance. i saw an adult male paddling from the bow seat with a 3' childs toy paddle. every campsite on that lake was in use when i came through inbound.

i did meet a paddler there that happened to be on one of Phil Cotton's trips, and saw him again 10 weeks later in WPP when my float plane picked him up.

to get what you're looking for, you would need to get way west. didn't see anyone for a week, not even a footprint.

Yes, but time and money are constraints I must plan around. We likely don't have the money to fly in/out and we sure don't have the time to paddle all the way into the western areas of the park. That is why I was considering Onnie as the EP. But, as I said, we are still very early in out plans. Mabe a fly-in is possible, I just don't know yet.

quote jcavenagh: "We likely don't have the money to fly in/out and we sure don't have the time to paddle all the way into the western areas of the park."

that WCPP trip was a paddle in/ paddle out route. didn't fly.

i'd run it by Claire, see what she says.

what route are speaking about? and how long did it take?

quote jcavenagh: "what route are speaking about? and how long did it take?"

custom route i put together, probably not suitable when the kids are along, although who knows. i don't have my notes in front of me, but i think i walked 4000M on one of those portages before i had everything across.

the reason i say contact Claire is that she is probably the best single source for info on satisfying your trip criteria...route, duration, solitude, etc.

another thing to check on your maps is the location of the fly in lodges. you might want to stay away from those.

Did you find your fourth?

Yes. dl is joining us as our 4th man.

31 days.....

quote jcavenagh: "31 days....."

Coming up soon! Feeling pretty ready?

In 28 days from right now, I expect to be coming around the bridge into Duluth and pointing the car toward Thunder Bay [if not already north of Thunder Bay].
All the guys ar4e on board, the schedule is clear.
Gotta test the old Svea, buy the food, laminate the maps....
Daughter gave me a gift cert from REI for Fathers Day. Think I'll splurge on some rain pants!
Oh, and we decided we'll bring bear spray this year.
Working down the lists, counting down the days...

I've been thinking of you both lately! I screwed up planning to try for next year - turns out that IS one of the years I need to save a week's vacation to be chaperone on a 5th grade trip up north... So - it may need to go to 2013 OR some other vacation trip will need to give in 2012. Sigh.

So - I'll be living vicariously through you guys!

quote BWPaddler: "I've been thinking of you both lately! I screwed up planning to try for next year - turns out that IS one of the years I need to save a week's vacation to be chaperone on a 5th grade trip up north... So - it may need to go to 2013 OR some other vacation trip will need to give in 2012. Sigh.

So - I'll be living vicariously through you guys!"

Well, if my husband bails (which I doubt:) - I'll call you first. We leave Sept 8.

28 days from right now I expect to be camping on the eastern shore of Caribou Lake, or maybe on the island site just past the portage!
Steak and corn for dinner.
I can almost smell the pines.....

14 days....

13

7 days........we are going to sneak out of town a little early

I'll be sure to warn the Canadian Immigration Authorities!

packed...unpacked...packed...unpacked...packed...gotta buy the food this weekend...got some new lures for walleye...I should get another gas bottle...maybe a 20L dry compression sack...tested the stove, again, and it still works....checked the temps over the last few weeks on the Environment Canadia site....

something to keep an eye on...


...the one fire within park boundaries is burning - it is labelled as Thunder Bay 50. The ministry fire map can be found here- http://forest.lrc.gov.on.ca/AFFM/fire/i ... nglish.htm

almost 100 fires burning in NW Ontario, open fire ban across most of the area.

Ontario Fires

If JD's link doesn't work for you - as it didn't for me - try this one. Was interested to see Jeff Lake and Ranger Bay area fire activity in Q.

TB51 is the one we are concerned about. It is right on our route inot Smoothrock. I got an extra quart gas bottle as I have been monitoring the fires for several weeks now. I have anticipated a fire ban, so we will be cooking with the Svea123R, my trusty little brass god.

jcavenagh- Have a great trip! Bring back lots of stories and pictures for us!

Thanks. Camera and extra batteries are rwady to go. Food is almost completely packed. Expect to get out of here WED around noon or so.

maps are now laminated.

Never fails...Friday at 5pm a crash deadline deal arrives in my email box. I worked all weekend drafting contracts, modifying addenda, conferring with the client, and drove around today trying to get signatures from the necessary parties. Couldn't get all the signatures. Oh, well, at least I have a trusty partner who can finish up what I can't.

I think I hear Wilbur the Walleye mocking me....

Tonight...fun with seal a meal...what else can we SAM???

I started planning this trip a year ago. The anticipation is just freaking me out. Tomorrow we go!

Did you get back?

We are back. I have a bit of a puffed up left knee, but that is about the only lasting injury.
Turns out the fish up there are smarter than us. We caught some Northerns and let them go. We caught a walleye, had it on the chain for a few hours, and it got away before we could filet it. We caught a trout and it got away before we could get it on the chain.
We really aren't avid fishermen, so it was no big loss.

quote jcavenagh: As for the routes into the park, that is a more difficult nut to crack. From my perspective, I would like to see those preserved as well. But I don't live there so I don't have to deal with making a living in that area. MNR has to balance the interests of all concerned, including the logging interests. As the interests of different groups can be diametrically opposed that balancing must be a tough trick to pull off."

One of the goals of the Wabakimi Project is to document canoe routes (Crown Lands, etc.) connecting to the park. This allows for those routes to be included in "values mapping" for the forest use planning process, which in turn betters chances for buffer zones along canoe routes. So, there is that. I've only been on a couple of project trips, but I'm sold on their ethics and goals.

There isn't logging within the park. But fly over it and the logging and roads are just incredible outside Park boundaries.

Part of the Wabakimi Projects initiative is to document historic canoe routes and portages from outside the park to allow continued access. One of the prime dangers is from new logging roads. If routes are not identified and placed in NRVIS (the Natural Resources Values Inventory System) of Ontario, then logging roads are free to destroy them with no rehabilitation. Those portages are gone forever.

I am not strong enough to schlep all that gear (Phils teams do not travel light) anymore, but its been my privilege to have done nine Wabakimi Project trips.

Well worthwhile. Have a talk with Phil at Canoecopia if this piques your interest at all.

quote jdrocks: "

quote ZaraSp00k: "

quote jdrocks:



i would say that on recent trips only 25% of the campsites we used had seen a campfire that season, most had not been used for at least several seasons, and some not used for decades. "

don't judge campsite use by fire ring useage, some of us do not build fires"

do you use a tent? do you leave tracks? use an axe or saw? been up there a long time and i'm confident in my assessment of site usage.


if there's grass growing in the fire ring; live lichen on the fire ring rocks; brush, deadfalls, and labrador tea/alders/young spruce present in the ONLY tent pad locations; no evidence of tracks where where there would naturally be foot traffic; and no recent axe/saw work where these tools are commonly used.


some of the main stream routes are used multiple times each week during the season because a certain outfitter sends a bunch of trips down the same portages, while other routes are rarely used. on the well used routes, you may never see a site that hasn't been used recently. in 2009, i saw 20 paddlers from maybe 5 different groups dropped at the same ViaRail siding, man, the outfitter provided a real wilderness experience for those folks, especially since there were very few good campsites for about four paddling days ahead. on the opposite hand, in 2008 we burned wood i left at a campsite the previous year, even though it was the only known campsite for miles in any direction.

"

what the heck, it's winter, may as well, give this thread something to talk about

I don't carry an axe and even when I take a saw it is for cutting on the portage if I need to. Also I don't use a fly and the tent is only used for sleeping. Mostly I sit on a rock and star gaze or walk along the shore and fish. The only time I cook is when I catch fish, otherwise it is boil water with gas stove or just eat food that doesn't need preparing. The winter will likely remove all trace of me being there if there is any trace at all.

I do understand what you mean by recognizing a campsite that hasn't been used in many years, but just because it appears not to have been used by the the usual identifiers doesn't mean it hasn't been used, if there are no bugs I might sleep on the ground and if there are suitable trees in the vicinity I'll be in my hammock.

quote jdrocks: "

quote jcavenagh: "jdr -Why do you say its not good hammock country? What is the issue??
Thanks, Jim"

lack of suitable trees at many campsites. maybe 95% black spruce, some jackpine, aspen. thinking back on the campsites say over the past five years, only 50/50 that you would find a pair of decent trees in a reasonable location relative to the established campsite.


...and i wouldn't want to be back in a poorly rooted black spruce forest if the wind started to blow anyway. those trees are "rooted" in 6" of duff sitting on solid rock. buggy back in there too.


WP crew pulled one of those spruce right out of the ground setting the tarp ridge line. unfortunately, it fell on one of the tents."

Just reading thru these old posts. jdr was correct. I did have some difficulty finding safe hammock spots and spent two nights in the tent on that trip. Thaks for the tip. Based on that I packed extra ccf pad. It came in handy.

quote BWPaddler: "Just one side note - the WP maps . . . include only relevant campsites on either side of a portage - under the theory that they didn't want to have to be the expert in campsites, but people paddling would want to know if they should or should not tackle a particular portage one day. IE will there be a campsite shortly after? or should we stay on this side...
So if you see LESS camps on WP maps, that may be why. They didn't intend to document ALL campsites."

BWPaddler is correct, but only to a point. The Wabakimi Project is certainly concerned with campsites within easy reach of each portage landing. Weather, fatigue and failing daylight are factors paddlers must weigh before tackling a portage. Whether they choose to do so or not, they need to know the length of the portage and where the nearest campsite is located on each side of the portage.

Volunteer participants on The Wabakimi Project reconnaissance expeditions spend an inordinate amount of time scouting canoe route shorelines for campsites and clearing and cleaning all those they find. But, on The Wabakimi Project canoe route maps, only those campsites capable of hosting two four-man tents are depicted. There's a plethora of sites in Wabakimi and on the adjacent Crown lands that can host a single tent for a solo paddler or a couple.