Ok, so I know I talked about this in another post a little.

What canoe are you using for your Wabakimi trip? Or what have you used in the past?

I was planning on putting d-rings on mine. Did you use them? Granted, I don't want to loose gear, but are they a nuisance during the times you don't use them?

Guess I'm contemplating how many other trips I'd use them. Maybe I'll just need to go further north more. :)

We'll have Dave's Wenonah MNII and will rent a Souris River Q17. Ultimately I'm going to own one or the other so I thought this is a good chance to compare side by side. I have given up the idea of buying a 16 footer as a solo/tandem compromise. I realize that I am just not cut out for solo tripping, so why compromise?

Last year I paddled a MNII with my 12 yr old son. A little tough to steer, especially with very stiff tail wind at the starboard quarter.
3 years ago I paddled a SR Q17, but I wasn't really paying attention to the handling or other characteristics.

When you say "add d-rings" what do you mean? Where do you put those?
I have always just strapped the packs to the gunwales.

quote jcavenagh: " Where do you put those?
I have always just strapped the packs to the gunwales. "

Do you mean thwarts? Need something attached to a gunwale to secure something else right? Or are yours special? (Serious here, really want to learn.)

Well, I asked Rob Kesselring about it a while back and he suggested using d-rings adhered to the bottom of the hull for snug fit for packs. Additionally he recommended rigging lining holes at cutwater for bow and stern.

Saw some diy'r stuff online for putting in lining holes. Found a company that sells kit, but they don't reply to my email inquiries.

Guess my point is, do I rig our canoe with all this stuff only to use it a few times in a really remote area? Granted, I know I need to do something, but was wondering if we could safely do something less permanent to our canoe? Or, maybe its not a big deal to go ahead and rig the thing.

Ideas? Thoughts?

I will just be tying the packs in the canoe like we do in the BW. We are not doing any river stuff. If we come across rapids, e.g between Funger and Smoothrock, we'll line or portage. I am not Lucky Pierre, Voyaguer Extrodinaire, so I'll just take it slow and easy.
I don't own a boat, so I can't be drilling or gluing anything anyway.

quote jcavenagh: "I will just be tying the packs in the canoe like we do in the BW. We are not doing any river stuff. If we come across rapids, e.g between Funger and Smoothrock, we'll line or portage. I am not Lucky Pierre, Voyaguer Extrodinaire, so I'll just take it slow and easy.
I don't own a boat, so I can't be drilling or gluing anything anyway."

Funny. So do you just zig zag some rope between thwarts and loop through pack straps? Sorry, kinda need it spelled out for me.

On flat watwer we usually just clip the waist belt around the yoke or thwart. For smaller packs, I sometimes use a few feet of paracord or masons line. This allows us to get at the stuff in the daypacks like camera, sunscreen, gorp.

After reading the thread about swamping, I am thinking I'll be using 5-6 feet of amsteel blue to tether each pack to the canoe. That way if we swamp, we can keep the packs near but still be able to flip the canoe back right side up.

Lashing packs tightly into a canoe is something I associate with whitewater canoeing. For flat water I think you want the packs to be able to leave the canoe and yet be able to keep the packs nearby.

jc- Makes sense. Especially if you need to upright the canoe. Be a lot easier without all the weight.

Thinking I could find/design some sort of webbing/rope strap with a strong, quick releasing clip that I could tether packs to canoe with. That way we could quickly release packs for various needs. I'd rather not have to fuss with knots too much.

Edit: I checked out the amsteel blue. Looks like they come with a clip! Sheeish-I had no idea. Not super cheap, but if you own one, not a big deal. I still think I might try to rig my own or buy something similar.

Thanks for the help!

I don't have the pre-made lash with clip. I just bought some amsteel rope and use a carbiner snap link. With the 1/8" or 7/64" line you can splice a locked brummel fixed loop which makes it pretty easy to clip and unclip a biner.

quote jcavenagh: "I don't have the pre-made lash with clip. I just bought some amsteel rope and use a carbiner snap link. With the 1/8" or 7/64" line you can splice a locked brummel fixed loop which makes it pretty easy to clip and unclip a biner."

Interesting, thanks for the specifics. I didn't know what a locked brummel fixed loop was, however I found a helpful video tutorial here that gave me a good picture of how to do this.

quote paddlefamily: "Ok, so I know I talked about this in another post a little.

What canoe are you using for your Wabakimi trip? Or what have you used in the past?

I was planning on putting d-rings on mine. Did you use them? Granted, I don't want to loose gear, but are they a nuisance during the times you don't use them?

Guess I'm contemplating how many other trips I'd use them. Maybe I'll just need to go further north more. :) "

most recently, i've been using a Q18.5 in kevlar for near north tripping such as the Wabakimi. my opinion, the premier boat of this type, and sooner or later you will give thanks that you made the choice. this boat will save your butt.

you're portaging whitewater, so i don't think D rings are necessary. it is absolutely necessary to tether your gear to the boat. as in all the drop and pool country, you can find yourself in a surprising amount of fast water, sometimes right at a portage. lose your gear in these conditions, big trouble. i use 1" straps with fastek buckles, commercially available, or you can make your own as i did.

bow/stern tag lines also mandatory. 25' 3/8" braided poly line (floats), coiled out from the boat, tag end brightly marked and readily accessible, figure 8 knot in the very end. i keep the coil attached to the boat with a BDB. boat should be tied at every stop without fail, for sure both ends at night. i have seen my 18.5 flying like a kite at the end of the 25' bow line, caught by a wind gust the area is known for. if it hadn't been secured, it would have landed in the river, trip over. these lines also used for lining/tracking, also common to the area.

the reason the tag ends are marked and accessible is so that you can reach up and grab the line if you end up in the water. the figure 8 knot prevents the line from easily sliding through your hand. i can tell some stories about reaching up for that line....

jdrocks- How did you mark the tag ends of your rope? I do have two 25' braided poly for lining, etc.

quote paddlefamily: "jdrocks- How did you mark the tag ends of your rope? I do have two 25' braided poly for lining, etc. "

three bands of bright electrical tape in a contrasting color, spaced about an inch apart. have a good system for coiling and securing the lines, you'll be using them constantly for one purpose or another. however secured, the line must be able to stream out without snags.

Old post I know. We no longer use anyones 18.5 foot boat. 18 is the max VIA Rail will carry and classify the canoe as canoe. That extra .5 feet jacks it into Freight. And the fees two years ago would have been not $15 but $352 for transport from Armstrong into Flindt landing for that longer boat.We used to use a Wenonah Odyssey 18.5 feet and now use a SR Wilderness. If you are flying find out if your carrier has maximum length limits for pontoon carry.

Just a word to those who tie in.. Portages often are one boat point in landings. The stern person will have to do lots of untying solo..Most portages are just a canoe length above rapids.

quote yellowcanoe: "Old post I know. We no longer use anyones 18.5 foot boat. 18 is the max VIA Rail will carry and classify the canoe as canoe. That extra .5 feet jacks it into Freight. And the fees two years ago would have been not $15 but $352 for transport from Armstrong into Flindt landing for that longer boat.We used to use a Wenonah Odyssey 18.5 feet and now use a SR Wilderness. If you are flying find out if your carrier has maximum length limits for pontoon carry.


Just a word to those who tie in.. Portages often are one boat point in landings. The stern person will have to do lots of untying solo..Most portages are just a canoe length above rapids.

Our Wenona is 17', so not a problem either way. We don't plan to tie in our gear, just clip in with floating nylon and caribiner.

Thanks for the info!

the 18'max freight regulation has been there for a long time, but i've never been charged a penny for the Q18.5 to ride Via Rail. no baggage handler has ever asked how long it was or measured it, and it's been on that train a number of times, including Flindt Landing.

also, never had a float plane service ask the first question about the Q18.5, Mattice or other, and that boat has been on the floats a bunch.

the Wilderness 18 is a darn good boat, but i like the other better.

quote yellowcanoe: "Old post I know. We no longer use anyones 18.5 foot boat. 18 is the max VIA Rail will carry and classify the canoe as canoe. That extra .5 feet jacks it into Freight. And the fees two years ago would have been not $15 but $352 for transport from Armstrong into Flindt landing for that longer boat.We used to use a Wenonah Odyssey 18.5 feet and now use a SR Wilderness. If you are flying find out if your carrier has maximum length limits for pontoon carry.

Just a word to those who tie in.. Portages often are one boat point in landings. The stern person will have to do lots of untying solo..Most portages are just a canoe length above rapids."

Dang, there goes my perfect plan. I own an SRQ18.5 and SR Wilderness 18... takes both to haul family of five. Gonna need a new plan or more bucks for train.

I just got back from Wabakimi. We had a SR Q17 and a Wenonah MNII. The MNII is 18.5'. The baggage guys on the train did not even look twice. They just hauled it up and in. $24CN per canoe.
I really would not worry about it. If you have a really long boat like 22 or 24' then I think you would have problems, but otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it.

One more thing, I was told that Via Rail has limited the number of canoes allowed to 6. Check with the outfitter to make sure you are OK on the number of canoes scheduled to be on the train.

just read jdrocks post, hmmmm, well - have to think on that one!

quote BWPaddler: "Dang, there goes my perfect plan. I own an SRQ18.5 and SR Wilderness 18... takes both to haul family of five. Gonna need a new plan or more bucks for train."

So you own the two premier tripping boats for paddling the near north parks...looks to me like you're set.

You can make your own train reservations online, but i also call to make sure that they note that there will also be canoe(s).

Don't procrastinate if you are making reservations, sometimes the train is full.

If you have a senior citizen in the group, his "guide" travels free. saves a few bucks.

Yeah, sounds like the freight designation is a "spirit of the law" kind of guideline. Fingers crossed. Also gotta fix up the Wilderness a bit, it tripped fine earlier this year, but I bought it with a splinted gunwale that I'd like to replace. Time to shop for riveting tools!

Hoping to plan for 2012 (after family reunion discussions settle down and I make sure I have enough vacation!). Waiting for cavenaugh's trip report as I think he did almost the same route I'm considering (with any "family" modifications he recommends).

Good to know about the guide, but alas I haven't been able to talk my folks into BWCA, let alone Wabakimi - ha!

BWP - It will be a few weeks for my trip report. We are still going thru photos and trading photos among the crew.

As for riveting tools and/or canoe repair issues, we ran into the Northwest Canoe folks on our trip. They are in the twin cities and advertise on this site. Give them a call and I bet they can help you find what you need.

welcome back jcavenagh. looking forward to trip report.

quote jcavenagh: "BWP - It will be a few weeks for my trip report. We are still going thru photos and trading photos among the crew.

As for riveting tools and/or canoe repair issues, we ran into the Northwest Canoe folks on our trip. They are in the twin cities and advertise on this site. Give them a call and I bet they can help you find what you need. "

I stopped in just after one of the NWC guys got back from his W trip - it was fun to talk to him about it. Didn't know they ran into you!