Does anyone know what the deal is with the train in Basswood. A few weeks ago we were headed to Good Creek and there was a train, almost completely submerged, near the mouth. Does anyone know the history behind it?

got any pics?

I wonder if it was an "alligator" used for logging back in the early 20th century. Basswood was heavily logged over on the US side.

unfortunately no pic's. it looked old. defiantly ran on coal judging from the smoke stack.

Sounds like the name of a porno.

Whichway, I assume you're talking about the Hoist Bay side of Good Creek? Any chance you could pinpoint exactly where? Going in that direction in a couple weeks & this would be a good day-trip. Thanks!

Going to be in the area next week with an underwater camera, DETAILS PLEASE!

Did it say "Amtrack" on the side of it? They have a history of underwater trains.

Basswood, and many other areas were logged. The Cloquet Line has many spurs off it going to Fourtown and Murphy Lake (Tin Can Mike)
If you look carefully on the left side when on Murphy Lake heading to the Horse Lake portage, you may be able to detect an old railroad grade that ran there.
You will actually walk on part of it when traveling from Range to Murphy.

It probably was a wood burner. The fuel is all around. Wouldn't import coal to a logging camp. If it has a big stack that is to catch the sparks from burning wood. A coal stack is smaller. Was it just the locomotive?

Would love to see pictures of this if anyone has/gets some.

quote bapabear: "Would love to see pictures of this if anyone has/gets some."

Sounds like Corsair needs to get us pictures!

The following paragraph, excerpted from The Boundary Waters Wilderness ecosystem by Miron Heinselman (1996), may shed some light on the train. It refers to a railroad built by the Swallow and Hopkins Timber Company:

"Swallow and Hopkins had to develop some unique transportation methods to move its logs to its Fall Lake millpond because most of its timber holdings were downstream from Fall Lake (which drains into Basswood Lake). They also had to raft log booms across several large lakes. The solution to the first problem was to link Fall Lake to Basswood with a railroad portage capable of transporting millions of board feet of logs yearly. A temporary logging railroad from Fall Lake to Pipestone Bay of Basswood Lake was used from 1899 to 1900. Another short rail portage was built from the northeast end of Fall Lake to Ella Hall about the same time. Then, to reach their timber holdings in the Basswood Lake area further upstream in the Moose - Ensign - Snowbank – Ima and Knife Lake regions, they build the Four Mile Portage in 1901 from Fall Lake to Hoist Bay of Basswood Lake. Hoist Bay gets its name from the Swallow and Hopkins hoist that loaded logs onto railroad cars at the Basswood Lake terminus of this line. A 40-ton Brooks locomotive and a smaller switch engine were used on the portage. The Brooks engine, which burned wood for fuel, moved several carloads of logs each trip. This railroad was also used for moving camp supplies, which for transfered over Prairie Portage on rails by winching."

quote Whichwaysnorth: "Does anyone know what the deal is with the train in Basswood. A few weeks ago we were headed to Good Creek and there was a train, almost completely submerged, near the mouth. Does anyone know the history behind it?"

Could you point out where it is on this map.


That would be fun to dive and explore.

The boundary waters has more history than we know of. Before it flourished with logging camps and canoeists along with trucks, trains, tough ass men and women who respected it. Now a days the circus regulates your bowel movements there and what to do with your fish guts..

I agree, there aren't many people that know the history of the Bdub, how many resorts, homesteads, and cabins were removed, and jobs lost when they "built" the wilderness.

Are there any good history books out there about the BDub region that anyone knows of?

I have the point marked where I remember the train to be. the trip was over a month ago now so I may be off by a little. I know for a fact that the train is on the side of the lake that I marked and is roughly that far from shore. The only thing I'm questioning myself on is if it is in the bay I have marked or the next bay to the east. never the less its marked! Train on Basswood

quote The Great Outdoors: "I agree, there aren't many people that know the history of the Bdub, how many resorts, homesteads, and cabins were removed, and jobs lost when they "built" the wilderness."

I think most people do know this...a lot of enviros use the BW as an example when trying to establish wilderness areas. I was not alive prior to the Wilderness Act (or 1979 BWCAW) but am fully aware of how the area changed as a result. My grandpa's family owned a cabin on (or near) Moose Lake.

quote Whichwaysnorth: "The only thing I'm questioning myself on is if it is in the bay I have marked or the next bay to the east. never the less its marked!"

I don't see a marking on that map?

Its the orange point of interest dot on the map almost right in the center of the map. just slightly to the east of Good Creek.

quote Whichwaysnorth: "Its the orange point of interest dot on the map almost right in the center of the map. just slightly to the east of Good Creek."

Thanks for posting that in the map section. I have put that on my list of things to see while in that area.

Now I have yet another reason to visit that area :) Thanks!

no prob, let me know how it goes! i would love to see pictures!

OK, I can't see the point of interest either...it's not showing up on the map for me, & we may be headed through here in a few days. Could someone describe exactly where it is to me? We'd love to see it if we get into the area!

quote PaddleAway: "OK, I can't see the point of interest either...it's not showing up on the map for me, & we may be headed through here in a few days. Could someone describe exactly where it is to me? We'd love to see it if we get into the area!"

It eventually showed up for me after I logged out and logged back in. Give that a whirl.

quote fitgers1: "Are there any good history books out there about the BDub region that anyone knows of?"

Check out The Voyageurs Highway . It doesn't go into great detail. But it does briefly describe the history of various areas in canoe country.

A couple others you may want to check out.
~ "By Water & Rail" a history of Lake county by Hugh E. Bishop
~ "Sawbill" by Mary Alice Hansen

In my experience it seems there are/is no completely definitive book(s) on the history of the area. But there are several books out there that speak to the colorful past history of the region in small doses.

New life goal: become wealthy enough or find a wealthy patron so that I can tackle writing the definitive guide to the history of the BW region.

;-)

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote fitgers1: "Are there any good history books out there about the BDub region that anyone knows of?"

Check out The Voyageurs Highway . It doesn't go into great detail. But it does briefly describe the history of various areas in canoe country.


A couple others you may want to check out.
~ "By Water & Rail" a history of Lake county by Hugh E. Bishop
~ "Sawbill" by Mary Alice Hansen


In my experience it seems there are/is no completely definitive book(s) on the history of the area. But there are several books out there that speak to the colorful past history of the region in small doses. "

Thank-you for this information. Perhaps everyone on the board can submit historical information and we can publish our own book.

quote fitgers1: "

quote TuscaroraBorealis: "

quote fitgers1: "Are there any good history books out there about the BDub region that anyone knows of?"

Check out The Voyageurs Highway . It doesn't go into great detail. But it does briefly describe the history of various areas in canoe country.



A couple others you may want to check out.
~ "By Water & Rail" a history of Lake county by Hugh E. Bishop
~ "Sawbill" by Mary Alice Hansen



In my experience it seems there are/is no completely definitive book(s) on the history of the area. But there are several books out there that speak to the colorful past history of the region in small doses. "

Thank-you for this information. Perhaps everyone on the board can submit historical information and we can publish our own book."

"Betsy and Saganaga" by Betsy Powell is a fun book to read that gives a person an idea what life was like for some of the old timers that lived in the area. Like TB said, it gives a small dose about one family and one area.

I have the "Betsy and Saganaga" book. Interesting read.

Another couple books having history of NE Minnesota is Marvin G. Lamppa’s book Minnesota’s Iron Country and Minnesota’s Logging Railroads by Frank A. King.

Also the first six chapters of Lamppa’s PBS series are pretty comprehensive with the early history of the area. The remaining six focus primarily on the mining of the Mesabi Range.

Also check out anything written by Justine Kerfoot, Bob Carey or John Henrickkson.

quote The Great Outdoors: "I agree, there aren't many people that know the history of the Bdub, how many resorts, homesteads, and cabins were removed, and jobs lost when they "built" the wilderness."

You'd be surprised at how many American wilderness areas have a history of mining/prospecting, failed settlement, landing strips, past logging operations, etc. But what was preserved is basically the best of what was left. Sixty percent of the BWCAW was logged at one time or another, but the uncut stands that remain are the biggest in the US, east of the Rockies.

Most of the resorts were in the Basswood Lake area, with only a few scattered across the rest of the area.

In the grand scheme of things, the loss of jobs by designating wilderness areas is extremely small when compared to the value of preserving national treasures.

quote Whichwaysnorth: "Does anyone know what the deal is with the train in Basswood. A few weeks ago we were headed to Good Creek and there was a train, almost completely submerged, near the mouth. Does anyone know the history behind it?"

Are you sure that what you saw was a train? It sits in Hoist bay, near shore and near the entrance to Good creek (opposite Four Mile portage). I came upon it about ten years ago and was told by some longtime Basswooders that it was a steam-powered type raft/boat left over from the logging days. Apparently it has sunk so deep in the mud that it can't be hauled out without a major undertaking.

I think you may be right Motorboater. The Swallow and Hopkins Company used steam powered scows on Fall and Basswood Lakes according to King's book page 108.
Google: steam barges for logging in Minnesota and the book will come up. I can’t get the link to work.

quote inspector13: "
I think you may be right Motorboater. The Swallow and Hopkins Company used steam powered scows on Fall and Basswood Lakes according to King's book page 108.
Google: steam barges for logging in Minnesota and the book will come up. I can’t get the link to work.

"

That's a very good read. Traveling thru peaceful serene Hoist bay now, you would never believe that it was once a log-jammed swamp, clogged with work crews, skows and trains. Later in the '50s and '60s
the train was replaced with buses that plowed up and down Four Mile portage bringing in vacationers to the many resorts on Basswood. A large commercial houseboat rental operation existed there just to the west of the Good Creek entrance.

I saw a picture of one of those buses on Wilderness Outfitters’ website. I also remember reading somewhere that there is an old vehicle in the woods somewhere at the end of that portage.

As an aside, I have a Lake County map I picked up about 10 years ago that still shows the location of some buildings around Rice Bay, towards Prairie Portage, and a couple other areas on Basswood that I can’t recall right now. I looked up the newer version of that map online and it no longer shows them.

It's unfortunate that the history of all the old resorts and commercial operations on Basswood are not very well chronicled. I think maybe the Forest Service prefers it that way to discourage people from digging around and messing things up. I guess I can't blame them.

Most of anything I know comes from old-timers who hold the knowledge, first hand. Pretty soon those folks will be gone and so will a lot of the colorful and detailed history of those waters.

Older versions of USGS topo maps show the locations of old buildings/resorts, as well as the network of logging roads in the southern BWCA.

That commercial operation mentioned is also marked on my map, as well as a few buildings on the peninsula NE of Hoist Bay.

I used to use TerraServer before it was dropped. They had a bunch of old USGS maps that showed clear-cut areas on the North Shore, and burial grounds near Murphy Lake. Too bad I didn’t take a liking to history until well after high school.

So all these old land marks and resorts were just abandoned? were they left standing or were they destroyed? is their any chance that if one could get their hands on one of these old maps that they could possibly find one of these resorts? I understand there wont be much left of them at this point but it would be a fun day trip.

After the Wilderness Act passed in 1964, all resorts, cabins and other structures were bought out by the government. Each one was dismantled piece by piece and hauled out by the Forest Service. There most certainly are co-incidental remnants of some of these structures still out there if you can find them.

One building still standing is the the old structure at Prairie Portage. It's left over from a resort that I believe was once owned by longtime locals, the Chosa family. The resort cabins extended west from there along the shore.

Linky Linky

Here is a real good book that gives a good history of the BWCA thru the Logging perspective around the turn of the last century.

quote Whichwaysnorth: "So all these old land marks and resorts were just abandoned? were they left standing or were they destroyed? is their any chance that if one could get their hands on one of these old maps that they could possibly find one of these resorts? I understand there wont be much left of them at this point but it would be a fun day trip."

If you can find a 1958 or older Fisher Map, you will see many cabins, resorts, or homesteads marked on them.
Everything will have grown in so much that finding the sites may be a challenge, but there may be remnants of old stoves, horseshoes, dinner bells, etc, left in the area.

Stu has put several articles about some of the history of the area and some biographies in the Boundary Waters Journal in past issues. You can check out some older BWJ's to get this.

You look at the Basswood end of the four mile portage and the amount of red pine bark in the water is still very abundant along the shore. Must of been a sawmill right at that site.

quote The Great Outdoors: "

quote Whichwaysnorth: "So all these old land marks and resorts were just abandoned? were they left standing or were they destroyed? is their any chance that if one could get their hands on one of these old maps that they could possibly find one of these resorts? I understand there wont be much left of them at this point but it would be a fun day trip."

If you can find a 1958 or older Fisher Map, you will see many cabins, resorts, or homesteads marked on them.
Everything will have grown in so much that finding the sites may be a challenge, but there may be remnants of old stoves, horseshoes, dinner bells, etc, left in the area."

As TGO said, if you know where to look some remnants can be found such as old stoves. I've found some on the Eastern side of Basswood.

quote arctic: "

quote The Great Outdoors: "I agree, there aren't many people that know the history of the Bdub, how many resorts, homesteads, and cabins were removed, and jobs lost when they "built" the wilderness."

You'd be surprised at how many American wilderness areas have a history of mining/prospecting, failed settlement, landing strips, past logging operations, etc. But what was preserved is basically the best of what was left. Sixty percent of the BWCAW was logged at one time or another, but the uncut stands that remain are the biggest in the US, east of the Rockies.


Most of the resorts were in the Basswood Lake area, with only a few scattered across the rest of the area.


In the grand scheme of things, the loss of jobs by designating wilderness areas is extremely small when compared to the value of preserving national treasures."

Easy to think that, I suppose, if it's not your job or your hometown that's been lost.

PADDLEAWAY did you stop by the site for pics?

Sadly, did not. Took my two girls (8 & 10 ) in for the first time & with the wind we had, no way we were going to make it that far. I'm waiting for someone who did though!

Corsair? did you stop by?

Headed to BWCA in june. Will take pictures of train if possible. I also have seen remnants of an old barge just off of washington island. Anyone ever hear about paddlewheelers being used on basswood? They used to travel all the way up to U.S point I guess.

Here is a link to a great trip report by smuts. Included in it there are pictures of the train as well as the surrounding area.

Wow, thanks for pointing us to that trip report, I missed that one. Great pictures!

quote The Great Outdoors: "I agree, there aren't many people that know the history of the Bdub, how many resorts, homesteads, and cabins were removed, and jobs lost when they "built" the wilderness."

Still love the hint of sarcasm in your post. More locals can understand it than others might. There really needs to be mapping done, and history noted of these family owned businesses, homesteads, trappers cabins etc. After all, they were a part of the entire history. Or, maybe there already is something that I haven't seen? It doesn't matter if the FS wants it or not.

I was on a winter camping trip in that area earlier this year and got a couple of photos of the steam engine/train artifact. Pics were not that good, however, as it was getting late, and I only had my cheapo camera. The one in the trip report referred to above is a much better shot, but this one is kind of cool as it's a winter pic. There is also a lot of other historical archaeological artifacts in the near vicinity.

I have photos of the machine in the back of Hoist Bay on Basswood. I am just back from my trip. It's not a locomotive but definitely something. JUST back from my trip there, was looking for info on it and landed here. I'll add pics tomorrow.

quote Cheech: "I have photos of the machine in the back of Hoist Bay on Basswood. I am just back from my trip. It's not a locomotive but definitely something. JUST back from my trip there, was looking for info on it and landed here. I'll add pics tomorrow. "

Not sure exactly how to add a photo

quote Cheech: "

quote Cheech: "I have photos of the machine in the back of Hoist Bay on Basswood. I am just back from my trip. It's not a locomotive but definitely something. JUST back from my trip there, was looking for info on it and landed here. I'll add pics tomorrow. "

Not sure exactly how to add a photo"

Down below the box where you type in your post is a Add A photo to this message. Click on that and then hit browse and select your photo from your computer file. Then hit preview photo and then click save photo.

On my list of things to see this summer. Thanks for the info.

Here's one pic of the thing in Hoist. What is it?

Another pic

Could you point out where it is on this map.



That would be fun to dive and explore."

My neighbors use to have a old steam engine just rigged for cutting up timber into saw logs.

You look at Hoist bay right at the end of four mile portage. The bottom is still has thick layers of bark from white-red pine being sawed up on the edge of the bay from trees logged around basswood. I bet that steam engine was used for that purpose and was on the ice and fell thru,thus they could not retrieve it.

quote Cheech: "


Here's one pic of the thing in Hoist. What is it? "

I saw something similar to this near the portage from Sturgeon to the Maligne River.

Ah I just went there a few weeks ago looking for this. I could not find it even with nearby fishers pointing me in the right direction. They told me it was an old steam engine/boat. Very cool that you saw it.

Cool! Thanks for pics!