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canoetripper
senior member (64)senior membersenior member
 
02/26/2014 11:29AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Planning to add a painters line to my canoes. Any recommendations for the "right" length for a painter line? What is your experiences for the ideal length that it is not too long that it is a mess but not too short that it's not beneficial. is 25ish feet a good amount?
 
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LuvMyBell
distinguished member(2470)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/26/2014 11:39AM  
Mine are twice as long as my canoe. Why? That's just the way I've always done it.
 
canoetripper
senior member (64)senior membersenior member
 
02/26/2014 11:40AM  
Also, any recommendations for rope? Do you use floating rope? Or just a static cord (6mm) or so?
 
wetcanoedog
distinguished member(4437)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 11:41AM  
as long as the canoe at each end.if i plan on tracking i get out the bear ropes.don't put any knots on the painter,you want it to run free.
about all i use mine for is to tie the canoe off or short pulls over beaver dams.use a rope that you can get a good grip on,not to small or you will want to wrap it around your hand to get a good pull,thicker line you just grab and pull.
 
02/26/2014 11:42AM  
Mine are 25 feet, which fits your criteria, mainly because the rope I bought was 50 feet and I just cut it in half. I frequently need most of that length too, which surprises me. I use BDB's to secure mine in the canoe.
 
wetcanoedog
distinguished member(4437)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 11:45AM  
for rope i use a non stretch climbing line that was a old bear rope.
the bear rope is now the stuff they use on sail boats,small and tough.
get a color that stands out without being too "rescue orange",that will help in low light when working with it.
 
wetcanoedog
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02/26/2014 11:49AM  
thumbs up on the BDB's!! i did all sort of goofy things to hold that small hank of rope before.
 
OldFingers57
distinguished member(4990)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 12:15PM  
Mine are 25 ft and are polypropylene rope.
 
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(14168)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/26/2014 02:16PM  
quote OldFingers57: "Mine are 25 ft and are polypropylene rope."

Sounds right to me.
 
02/26/2014 07:36PM  
help me out here, what is a painter rope?
 
02/26/2014 07:36PM  
help me out here, what is a painter rope?
 
kanoes
distinguished member(24748)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/26/2014 07:46PM  
quote Richwon4: "help me out here, what is a painter rope?
"

here
 
Cedarboy
distinguished member(3437)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/26/2014 07:58PM  
Dont forget it needs to float, so if dropped, well you get it. I got mine Sportsmans Guide years ago, floating rescue rope, 3/8 I think. Bright yellow with red stripes, cut 25 foot lenghts. Hard to find If I remember. Same stuff they use in rescue line bags you through for river rescue etc. They are sold at REI etc, but finding the rope by itself is the issue.
CB
 
02/26/2014 07:59PM  
quote canoetripper: "Also, any recommendations for rope? Do you use floating rope? Or just a static cord (6mm) or so? "

I use 25 ft. of floating line on bow and stern, that I got from Rutabaga in Madison, WI. It's rather large at around 3/8" but I find this handy.

I used to use just 1/4" nylon rope, which doesn't float, until I got tangled up in it during a spill. Another lesson learned.
 
schweady
distinguished member(7854)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 09:09PM  
kanoes - You were going to get some floating painter rope. Did you find it? What was it, exactly?
 
kanoes
distinguished member(24748)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/26/2014 09:23PM  
quote schweady: "kanoes - You were going to get some floating painter rope. Did you find it? What was it, exactly?
"

thwarted bought a bunch and sold me 48'. sterling float rope.
 
schweady
distinguished member(7854)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 09:38PM  
quote kanoes: "quote schweady: "kanoes - You were going to get some floating painter rope. Did you find it? What was it, exactly?
"

thwarted bought a bunch and sold me 48'. sterling float rope."

Thanks. One of these? I'm going to guess: 5/16" WaterLine.
 
kanoes
distinguished member(24748)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
02/26/2014 09:42PM  
its the grabline.
 
02/26/2014 09:54PM  
Yes, a grab line. Always put my own loop on each end of every rental, I thought everybody did that. I use that as something of a grab, lift, pull, drag line. I can see where it would be helpful if we had another boat with us maybe kids or something that just needed help.
 
Cedarboy
distinguished member(3437)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/26/2014 10:04PM  
Thanks schweady for the link, thats the stuff
 
schweady
distinguished member(7854)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/26/2014 10:07PM  
Thanks. One more upgrade...
 
tonyyarusso
distinguished member(1403)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/26/2014 11:23PM  
I went with 25 feet per end, relatively thick rope to be easy on the hands, and floating. I'm pretty sure it's this rope from NRS.
 
icecoldmilk
member (47)member
 
02/27/2014 11:35PM  
And what are BDBs??
 
02/27/2014 11:47PM  
all ive ever used is cheap yellow hollow braid polypro from home diggity for on the water applications-not heavy weight bearing or tying to car-it works great. not ideal for knots;)
 
02/28/2014 07:17AM  
quote icecoldmilk: "And what are BDBs??"

BDB's
 
icecoldmilk
member (47)member
 
02/28/2014 07:54AM  
quote boonie: "quote icecoldmilk: "And what are BDBs??"


BDB's "



Ohhhhh ya..... Thanks!
 
OldFingers57
distinguished member(4990)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/28/2014 08:06AM  
quote schweady: "quote kanoes: "quote schweady: "kanoes - You were going to get some floating painter rope. Did you find it? What was it, exactly?
"

thwarted bought a bunch and sold me 48'. sterling float rope."

Thanks. One of these? I'm going to guess: 5/16" WaterLine.
"


If you want this rope for a cheaper price. This where I buy the rope for all of our water/ice rescue needs for our Fire Depatment.
HREF="http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.aspx/productId/12198/Sterling-Rope-9-5mm-3-8-WaterLine-Water-Rescue-Rope-NFPA-Certified-Yellow/" TARGET="_blank">The Fire Store Water rescue rope
 
schweady
distinguished member(7854)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/28/2014 08:59AM  
Thanks, OldFingers57. Just one bracket missing in your link, for some reason. Here's a more clickable format:
Sterling WaterLine Water Rescue Rope
 
02/28/2014 09:22AM  
Just wanted to add this to the original question regarding length:
It really depends on what you intend to use the painter rope(s) for?
If it's use is for lining up rivers, then I would recommend 25' on the bow and 40' on the stern. You need a longer length on the stern to account for the length of the canoe (actually a little less than the length of the canoe based on the geometry of the situation).
 
Saberboys
distinguished member(812)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
02/28/2014 01:46PM  
Does anyone have a photo of these painter ropes being used on a portage? I've never seen this before, but am interested in the concept for balancing.

Thanks!
 
Beemer01
Moderator
 
02/28/2014 02:04PM  
Saber -

Using the painter as a balancing line can work, but I found just got in the way most of the time, catching on passing bushes, stepping on it and so forth.

Beemer01
 
schweady
distinguished member(7854)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
02/28/2014 02:51PM  
On portages, mine are rolled up and BDB'd to the handles. We use them exclusively for lining through shallows and lift-overs

 
02/28/2014 02:55PM  
Do people also use the painter for tying the ends down to the car or do you use a separate line?
 
03/01/2014 05:28AM  
I drilled a pair of holes in a perfectly new canoe a few years back, got idea from butthead, and went for it. It works peachy. Just a little nerve racking drilling a hole in a NEW canoe :)

I agree with BeaV 25' on Front and Longer on Back.
Pictures of adding painter line to my RockStar.
Painter Lines
 
03/01/2014 08:49AM  

Currently using 7mm poly climbing accessory line, it will float. 25 ft. front and back, the back is a bit short for lining but have not done any big streams that required more than a few yards of standoff.
"Do people also use the painter for tying the ends down to the car or do you use a separate line?"
I have, for me depends mostly on tiedown angles/positions.

butthead
 
03/01/2014 01:02PM  
quote Saberboys: "Does anyone have a photo of these painter ropes being used on a portage? "

Here's a picture. I'm posing for the camera- that's why my left arm is up on the gunnel. Normally, only my right arm is hanging onto the front painter and my right elbow is lower then in this pic. Very comfortable for a long portage and really makes balancing and steering the canoe easy. Like LuvMyBell stated elsewhere, the boat should be alittle stern heavy.
 
03/01/2014 01:05PM  
quote cycle003: "Do people also use the painter for tying the ends down to the car or do you use a separate line?"

ALWAYS separate lines. Remove painters from the canoe when transporting.
 
wingnut
distinguished member (452)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/01/2014 06:01PM  
quote cycle003: "Do people also use the painter for tying the ends down to the car or do you use a separate line?"

I like these rope ratchets for tying the canoe down.

these
 
andym
distinguished member(5113)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
03/01/2014 06:31PM  
quote BeaV: "quote Saberboys: "Does anyone have a photo of these painter ropes being used on a portage? "


Here's a picture. I'm posing for the camera- that's why my left arm is up on the gunnel. Normally, only my right arm is hanging onto the front painter and my right elbow is lower then in this pic. Very comfortable for a long portage and really makes balancing and steering the canoe easy. Like LuvMyBell stated elsewhere, the boat should be alittle stern heavy.
"


I do this but with the rope longer so that my arm is more down by my side. It is actually two shorter ropes tied to each end with a buckle clip in the middle so I can release it if I want to.
 
03/02/2014 12:44PM  
Bannock - Why do you use separate lines of tying down? And, why take the painters off? I use mine as tie-downs when transporting.
 
03/02/2014 01:15PM  
I own Nova Craft canoes. They come equipped with rope loops at each end of the boat. My painters attach to these ropes with a bronze snap, like a dog chain snap only made for sail boat lines. The lines are 25 ft. floating line and are kept in place with some elastic cord which is attached to the canoe carrying handle.

When transporting, the painters snap off and get packed in the vehicle. The canoes are secured to the Yakima racks with the Yakima strap system. I secure the canoe(s) to the front with lines that I made up and are dedicated to just that purpose. These ropes are small diameter and short length but attach to the loop built into the front end of the canoe with their own bronze snap. This small rope is then tied through a loop attached under the hood of the vehicle. The loops attached under the hood of the vehicle stay under the hood when I'm not hauling a canoe(s) and stick out a couple of inches when needed.

I do not secure the rear of the canoe. Wish I had more pictures. Sorry.


 
Dilligaf0220
distinguished member (173)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
03/02/2014 01:17PM  
I have one doall painter line system that I have been using for years on different boats. One line shorter than most here are using, maybe 4' longer than the boat, with smallish carabiners on the ends, and a loop tied in the middle with a Dropper Loop (fisherman's Prussic, without needing a seperate piece).

Use on portages for balacing, clips on & off quick, clip both carabiner's to one end when you need a shorter painter, used to tie down the boat on shore in a storm by just going around a tree, as a pulley in a Z-Bend setup. All sorts of uses. I carry other 50' hanks of "550 cord" in the pack that I'll break out as a stern line for lining.

Quick & easy having clips & loops pretied, and still short enough to keep attached and flop in the boat without it getting in the way.
 
LaVirginienne
senior member (70)senior membersenior member
 
05/26/2022 01:07PM  
Thanks so much for this thread. There is another similar thread focusing on attachment methods, so perhaps the moderator can link?

After 10 trips in my Wenonah Prism without lines astern and in the bow, and one or two of those heart-stopping moments described by others herein, I’ve followed advice here and ordered a 75’ length of light weight Sterling grab rope (water rescue rated as a throw line) plus a set of Atwood rope straps. It’s a very yellow setup, not very attractive, but no way around that. The red version of this rope is significantly heavier. Good news is, my lines will be highly visible in the woods on portages and tie-ins.

And yes, I can see how this will cet caught up in the bushes when I dock the canoe at night. I’m going to work on a solution for that, similar to what CSS has done with their ridgeline tarp bag. Like putting a simple grommet at the end of the smallest stuff sack that fits the line. And tuck the unused line I to that before I throw the canoe into the brush…

I’ll follow the advice of another member and experiment with using an UL S clip or an oval carabiner to attach the two lines when portaging and experiment with portaging with arms lowered. If I can get the hang of it with the Prism, I know it will reduce strain on my neck and shoulders carrying my big Northstar tandem.

A note on length. 25’ sounds like the rule of thumb. But tying in and using a figure 8 on a night to create two nice, handhold-size loops at the line ends for clipping during portages will eat up line. Switching the system between the Prism (16’6”) and the Northstar tandem (17’) means that the clipping points will create different line lengths. I reckon, If I use a foot of line for knots, I’ll end up with about 27’ of line simply by cutting the 75’ length in half and dressing the ends with a hot knife. That’s a very simple way of explaining to others what to buy and how to address this topic. I know a lot of people are stressed out right now, trying to up their safety game fast during the high water conditions this Spring in BWCA.

So, on the KISS principle, that’s what I’m going to do. I’ll just cut the 75’ Sterling water rescue grabber rope in half to create my rescue lines. I’ll take her out a few times to test. I’ll circle back later in the year to report if that extra two/four feet is a PITA.

Just a note that I tried to find the gear for this in Ely last time I was there in October. No dice. It’s really a pretty pointless exercise without floating line.

Another example of how useful this forum is. Thank you, all.

REMINDER all you painter line people… do you carry a rescue knife on your PFD? With all that line potentially getting caught up in the water with you during a capsize, now might be the time to bite the bullet on this one. I love my rescue knife. It’s an NRS Neko blunt tip dual blade. One handed release from the PFD. Light, simple and safe. No use nicking your artery by mistake after you’ve freed yourself from a tangle. Plus it’s great for peanut butter at snack time! My friends love their NRS Pilot series knives. Bonus: multiple colors tells you whose is whose.
 
LaVirginienne
senior member (70)senior membersenior member
 
06/01/2022 08:56PM  
Hey there, let me take a stab at this. Lines are what you tie to your vessel. Lines (painters, bow lines and stern lines ) are (potentially) lifesaving protection. They may need to save your life or the life of another and they should always be free of dirt, grease and grime.

Ropes used in transport shouldn’t be used in safety situations because their integrity has been compromised by oil, grease, grime, chemical rain etc on the road.

Keep your ropes separate from your lines!

People who wonder if I’m being fussy might be interested that climbers must retire their (safety) rope if there is even the slightest chance that it has spent the night on the garage floor or anywhere near harsh chemicals.
 
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