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ZaraSp00k
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01/26/2017 02:15PM  
why are there always so many for sale?????

I see maybe one or two of mine come up for sale a year, sometimes it's a couple years between seeing one for sale.
 
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01/26/2017 02:58PM  
Although I have no statistical data to back up my opinion, here's my take on your question ZaraSp00k.

When you say "I see maybe one or two of mine come up for sale a year", I'm assuming you're implying the Wenonah Jensen 18, Wenonah Jensen C1W and the Wenonah Voyager. Like you, I also own the aforementioned canoes as well. I tend to think it's a numbers game. That is, the Wenonah Jensen 18, Wenonah Jensen C1W and the Wenonah Voyager are somewhat specialized and therefore, less popular choices for the average canoe buyer..

The two solo canoes in the threesome, the Wenonah Voyager and the Jensen C1W are definitely NOT what I would consider an entry level or even user friendly solo canoe, especially for a first time solo canoe buyer. The 17' 6" Voyager is much longer and less initially stable than other solo canoes in it's class, (e.g., the Wenonah Prism, Wenonah Wilderness, Bell Merlin II, Northstar Northwind Solo, etc.). Additionally, the Wenonah Voyager isn't even stocked by many specialized paddle sport stores. Likewise for the Wenonah Jensen C1W.

The Jensen C1W was my "go to" tripping solo throughout all of the 1990's and up to 2004. I replaced the Jensen C1W with a new Kevlar Flex-Core Wenonah Voyager I ordered at Canoecopia in 2004. I loved the Jensen C1W, but it's a rather radical hull, somewhat trim sensitive, and not very "dog friendly". Although the C1W is fast, seaworthy and carries a big load, it's a tender hull without a lot initial stability. It was about the only big water tripping solo canoe offered by Wenonah until the Encounter, Voyager, Prism and Wilderness came along years later. Even when I worked at Rutabaga throughout the 1980's, it was a special order canoe.

Additionally, the Wenonah Jensen C1W and the Wenonah Jensen 18 are not even cataloged by Wenonah any longer and haven't been for several years, although you can still get either one manufactured for you upon request.

The Wenonah Jensen 18 is an excellent tandem canoe IMHO. During the time it was cataloged in Wenonah's catalog, the 18' Sundowner was far more popular. The Sundower 18 was more versitle, had more volume, and was a drier ride for canoe tripping. It was also a great family canoe and we often referred to it as the "Chevy Sedan" of the canoes we stocked at Rutabaga.

The Sundower 18 was classified as a touring canoe, whereas the Jensen 18 was classified as a cruising canoe and met USCA Citizen racing specs for most canoe races. Most people I knew or many paddling friends of mine purchased a Jensen 18 with the goal of doing local stock class canoe races.

Although the Sawyer Cruiser did not meet USCA citizen racing specs, (because it was too narrow at the 4" waterline), it seemed to be a more popular choice by experienced paddlers. It was a populat choice by experienced paddlers that wanted a nice sleek cruising canoe that had a slightly drier ride than the Jensen 18 and was slightly more maneuverable.

My point is, I think you see less Wenonah Jensen C1W's, Wenonah Jensen 18's and Wenonah Voyagers for sale because there are less of them around, primarily because those three canoes are more specialized and therefore less poplular IMHO.

Additionally, the Jensen 18 and the Jensen C1W have been supplanted by other more versatile canoes since their introduction. I personally love the Wenonah Jensen 18, Wenonah Jensen C1W and the Wenonah Voyager. My Jensen 18 and my Voyager get a lot of use throughout the year, but not so much for my Jensen C1W. Nevertheless, I wouldn't part with any of them.

If you look at the classified sections online, (i.e., craigslist, Paddleswap, etc.), there are plenty of other Wenonahs for sale, but it's generally the more "common" hull designs that are more popular, more versitle and therefore purchased in larger numbers.

Just my two cents worth.

Hans Solo

( From left to right; 17' 6" Wenonah Voyager, 18' Jensen 18, and the 16" 6" Jensen C1W)

 
DanCooke
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01/26/2017 03:53PM  
Are you thinking a particular model or Brand? What other brand and or model are you comparing?
 
01/26/2017 03:57PM  
just a thought, paddlers like to switch it up and upgrade based on physcial needs, tripping needs... maybe i'm a little sentimental, but i also look at who i'm buying the canoe from. if i'm buying a brand new canoe i will talk to wayne at souris river or ted or bear at northstar (not to be confused with the original bell name now owned by someone else). i like the personal service provided by these two companies, the time they each take to explain every little thing. i feel like i'm buying into the family of canoes rather than the factory.
 
Grandma L
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01/26/2017 05:35PM  
Might just be that now that Bell is back in business, folks are "trading up" and getting new ones.
 
01/26/2017 07:16PM  
Love my Northstar
 
01/26/2017 07:23PM  

I also think health and age are a factor. Several times I have seen members posting their canoe(s) and gear in the "Items for Sale or Wanted" forum that just can't trip or paddle any longer for age or health reasons.

Given the demographic of many of the members here, age, bad backs, bad joints, torn rotator cuffs, heart conditions, and other health related issues often draws the curtain on any future canoe trips and/or paddling in general.

Unfortunately, some paddlers and canoe owners just lose interest over time or don't use their $2,000+ canoe enough to justify continued ownership.

Hans Solo
 
s500yards
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01/26/2017 07:34PM  
quote Blatz: "Love my Northstar"


I second that. Can't see any reason to ever part with mine so long as I'm able-bodied enough to operate it. They are indeed a GREAT watercraft
 
01/26/2017 08:51PM  
quote Blatz: "Love my Northstar"

+1
Particularly love my Magic and Ted is awesome - I had a couple of custom requests when mine was made, went to his shop and put the finishing touches on it side by side with him. Just a great experience! I can't imagine selling, and I'm planning on purchasing another.
 
01/26/2017 10:45PM  
I suspect Hans Solo has it pegged, it is a numbers game. And one of cycles. The number on sale recently is definitely up and while I have not watched other sales sites lately, I suspect is is a blip in the overall numbers. Now if it continues?????
I have also had Ted do custom work on two occasions and more than pleased each time in both the work done and the customer service received. I love my magic and hope to paddle it for quite a while.
 
BnD
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01/27/2017 02:39AM  
quote Blatz: "Love my Northstar"


+2. However, someday I'm sure it will be for sale as well. Not sure what the point of this thread is?????????
 
01/27/2017 07:33AM  
Just like my bikes, I change up my canoes after 3 or 4 years mainly Wenonahs. They're all great canoes but I like something different from time to time. But for some reason I can see hanging on to my Northstar Northwind 17 for a while. Maybe I found my perfect canoe. Coincidentally there'e a Wenonah Voyager for sale on this site right now
 
Grandma L
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01/27/2017 10:17AM  
I have both Bell Northwind (17.5) and Wenonah Sundowner 18- the Bell is by far the favorite! Handles better and travels faster. Would I sell the Bell - sure if I had the money to buy a new one.
 
missmolly
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01/27/2017 10:25AM  
Good question. I like the answers. I suspect a lot of the Bells offered for sale were bought by people who thought canoeing was a good idea, but never or rarely managed to do it. I have two Bells and have no plans to sell them for anything less than $100,000,000 each.*













*negotiable
 
ZaraSp00k
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01/27/2017 04:21PM  
I only used my canoes as specific examples. Yes, I agree that mine are specialized compared to a Magic.
I would guess Wenonah has sold a lot of Advantage and Prisms over the years, in fact given the number of canoes they have sold, it is likely they have sold more of those than there are Magics. They may have even sold more Voyagers than there are Magics.
But you rarely see an Advantage for sale, my guess because they are truly a great solo canoe. You do see more Prisms, and I think the reason why is the same reason you see so many Magics. It's an everyman's canoe, that is they are the ones most likely to be recommended, and in the Magics case with fervor by their owners.
I just thought I’d ask the question, like usual, there are a couple Magics for sale.

 
ZaraSp00k
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01/27/2017 04:39PM  
quote HansSolo: "
My Jensen 18 and my Voyager get a lot of use throughout the year, but not so much for my Jensen C1W. Nevertheless, I wouldn't part with any of them.
"

exactly my point, people who own these canoes, and other "specialized" as you call them hulls, don't and won't sell them. My Jensens are both over 25 years old, I'll buy other hulls, but the Jensens will be sold when I'm dead or no longer able to paddle.
 
01/27/2017 05:36PM  
Wenonah Advantage is a great canoe. I owned 2
 
ozarkpaddler
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01/28/2017 04:47AM  
Hmmm, don't know. I know I'd still have every Bell I had ever bought if we had universal Healthcare, but that's another debate.
 
mr.barley
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01/28/2017 12:38PM  
quote Blatz: "Wenonah Advantage is a great canoe. I owned 2"
I'm also on my second Advantage. I had a Magic in between and it was a great canoe. It just wasn't what I was used to. I sold it when I finally (about 3 years later) found another Advantage.
 
yellowcanoe
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01/28/2017 05:40PM  
Another wrinkle.. Some of the Bells were very specialized. The Fire series for the kneeling paddler. I suspect some oldies realized that their kneeling days are over

Also there are some Bells after ORC took over that were less than to Ted Bell's standard.
And since its been a few years since any canoe came out with the Bell Paw its likely you are seeing older boats.

Bells designs have been carried on and are sought. What Ted did not pick up Colden and Placid did. Of course with different logos.
 
mastertangler
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01/29/2017 07:57AM  
Not so sure I agree with the premise.........its the "IF" part I disagree with. Most everyone knows Bell Canoes ARE great boats. Semantics perhaps? The insinuation is that they must not be so great if there are plenty around that people want to get "rid" of. Bah, Humbug......Fine boats which will get you around in style, speed and comfort.

In the interests of intellectual honesty I must disclose that all I have ever paddled and owned as per canoes are Bells........
 
yellowcanoe
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01/29/2017 08:45AM  
Yes the logic of the original premise seems to be flawed..but its winter
 
ZaraSp00k
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01/29/2017 04:15PM  
apparently some people here have never been exposed to if ... then ... statements. And I realize many here are uncomfortable with differing opinions.

It is a rare day when I do not see a Bell Magic for sale (often more than one) in the For Sale room, and whenever somebody asks for advice on what solo canoe to buy about a half dozen, sometimes more, people answer with fervor, "Magic".

It seems natural then, to ask the question.

You'd think people would want to hang on to a great canoe. The only reason I own a Voyagur is that I lost patience waiting for an Advatgae to come up for sale. Sure, I could have bought a new one, but I'm cheap. That and the fact I can buy two used canoes (or more) for the price of a new one.
After about a year I spotted a like new Voyagur plus yoke for $1100 bucks And somebody else had a C1W for $550, also in great shape. Having once passed on a stripper built by the master himself, and passed on a like new skin coat tuffweave (about 5 pound weight savings) from Betty Ketter, and kicking myself for the next ten years, I couldn't pass on the C1W, and couldn't wait another year for an Advantage.
I am happy with both.

I'd be willing to bet Hans and I have dissuaded more people from buying a Voyagur or C1W than persuaded to buy one. I'd hate to think I talked someone into buying a canoe they later sold.

I am not convinced it is because there have been more Magics sold than any of the Wenonah solos. Neither is it because the Wenonah's are older and out of date. A Jensen 18 out of date? hell, it's a classic and always will be. Same with the C1W. The error that was made was marketing and selling the C1W as a tripping canoe.
The C1W is exactly as the name says, a downriver racer. The Snake river in MN is the perfect river for it, I've bounced the tuffweave hull numerous times with only a couple of knicks in the gell coat. And the tippiness , who has time to notice that when you are zig zagging thru a rock garden? Initial stability be damned, it is very seaworthy, but the reaction of the hull to every wave and puff of wind is Chinese torture on a long trip on lakes. Funny thing is though, I've seen more Magic paddlers go for a swim than any other canoe except aluminum.
 
01/29/2017 09:33PM  
It's a numbers game. That and the increasing nomadic nature of life. People buy a popular canoe such as a Magic (after all, everyone told them to get one), then, kids come, jobs change, people move......canoes are sold. Solo canoes in particular seem vulnerable to life changes.
 
01/31/2017 12:06PM  
In general-not hull specific-I always see many, many more Wenonahs for sale on various sites, and it is not even close.
 
yellowcanoe
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01/31/2017 03:12PM  
quote Frenchy19: "In general-not hull specific-I always see many, many more Wenonahs for sale on various sites, and it is not even close."


LOL And I see NO Wenonahs for sale and few on the water! ( Old Town Country)
 
01/31/2017 03:42PM  
Anyone look in our for sale forum?
Posted for sale in the last month, that have not been deleted.
5 Wenonahs
15 Souris Rivers
2 Bells

butthead
 
DanCooke
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01/31/2017 04:19PM  
I do understand the point of this. Folks sell stuff for so many reasons, and with no reported actual numbers ( I am unaware of anyone or organization that tracks canoes that go up for sale) what is to be guessed at?
There are many fine canoes out there and some real slugs in my opinion. Some make my soul feel good, others I would not paddle unless forced to. My choices are mine. People paddle for so many reasons, and often their reasons change over time, and they are able to follow the next dream.
Enjoy what you are paddling or move on to another hull if you think it will better serve you. In my opinion, it is the form in the water that should make more difference to you than the nameplate or material it is made from. That is because for me; it is how the hull feels is the most important thing.
Off to camp in the snow....

 
kona
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02/01/2017 11:16AM  
A question: has the original poster ever tried a Magic or other popular Bell Canoe, for more than an hour? What did you think?

Some mill for the grist: Charlie Wilson has written volumes on internet message boards about the myriad virtues of David Yost designs, which may have been produced in greatest volume by Bell Canoes over a 15+ year period. I suspect that Wilson's comments have guided many individuals' searches and also given buyers something to talk about and cheer on. I've not come across that much design-oriented perspective or critical accolades for any other designer/producer. My reading suggests Yost designs have two advantages not routinely implemented (to my knowledge) in Wenonah, Old Town, or the other high-volume canoe producers: differential rocker and shouldered tumblehome.
 
jeepgirl
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02/01/2017 12:37PM  
I love my Magic. It feels good to me. It fits me. I will never sell it unless I am no longer able to paddle it. Canoe's are meant to be paddled not stashed away in garages collecting dust.
 
yellowcanoe
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02/01/2017 04:34PM  
quote kona: "A question: has the original poster ever tried a Magic or other popular Bell Canoe, for more than an hour? What did you think?


Some mill for the grist: Charlie Wilson has written volumes on internet message boards about the myriad virtues of David Yost designs, which may have been produced in greatest volume by Bell Canoes over a 15+ year period. I suspect that Wilson's comments have guided many individuals' searches and also given buyers something to talk about and cheer on. I've not come across that much design-oriented perspective or critical accolades for any other designer/producer. My reading suggests Yost designs have two advantages not routinely implemented (to my knowledge) in Wenonah, Old Town, or the other high-volume canoe producers: differential rocker and shouldered tumblehome. "


Interestingly DY does some symmetrical rocker too. My Aria, WildFire, Nakoma FlashFire and Duet and DragonFly are of that ilk.. My Nomad the touring hull I have is differential rocker and DY did the Yellowstone so that beginning paddlers could go straight ( or those on a trip). Diff rocker is quite common. Hemlock and Swift use it.. I have not checked Wenonah nor Old Town.

Interestingly DY does not own a computer , loves old antique iron engines ( those one cylinder things!) and Charlie likes to wrestle in the kitchen.

 
02/02/2017 07:49AM  
I like yellow canoes last post. Hauling boats I got to meet a lot of the guys that made our canoes what they are today. Every one I met are regular guys in many ways... added to are their passion for design and craftsmanship. It's really too bad Ted ever had to sell his original company. He and his team are making great strides in building his new company to where and what it should be. I've met several others too. Dave Curtis is one of my favorites. While some you meet are somewhat about competition, Dave's heart is all about the industry and his fellow canoe builders. And I get the same vibs from David Yost. We have been blessed to have all these people making their passions into creating great products for us. Same goes for Dan Cooke with his business. I've been to big and small operations. I favor the smaller shops in my travels. I had to pick up some canoes in northern maine. One shop in particular took me back in time like a time machine. That experiance alone was worth everything to me. As far as the OP question... I believe it's coincidence and such. Spending some time in a canoe/ kayak shop you learn quick there is no one canoe or kayak that fits all. I think Ted is doing a good job at hitting good diversity in design to fit into the main base of canoes as Wenonah has been doing forever too. I think as Northstar moves forward, they are going to continue to grow. The coolest thing I saw there was almost always Ted was right there in the production process of his canoes... as is Joe at Placid Lake and so on. Supporting the canoeing industry is as American as we can get. I would encourage people looking for that special canoe to really research and if possible try out every canoe you think you may like. And if traveling, check out the different shops and such. I personally think we are blessed with the best...
 
yellowcanoe
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02/02/2017 08:51AM  
Totally agree with Ben... The canoe makers/ designers are all regular guys. Some have other day jobs..
Just spoke last night to Paul of Colden Canoe.. He owns a window washing company and built that company one customer at a time word of mouth. He is still up there washing windows.

He decided to limit canoe building to a kind of specialty niche.. the old Fire series from Bell as well as some old Curtis ( pre Hemlock ) designs as he was going to continue his "day job"

Its great that Ted has built up NorthStar so fast obviously his business model is different..

Charlie Wilson can't seem to scrape together the funds for matching Crocs
 
02/02/2017 01:45PM  

I'm not sure how or why this thread wandered from the original question regarding Bell canoes. But as long as we are on the subject of canoe designers, manufacturers, and paddlesports marketing, I'll just throw in my two cents worth.

During my time working for a few different outdoor specialty and paddlesports stores during the 80's, I had a chance to rub elbows and talk to many in the paddlesport industry. As Ben and yellowcanoe mentioned, they're all pretty much "regular guys" or gals.

From my personal experience, most of the individuals that get involved in the business of designing, manufacturing, selling, or marketing canoes and kayaks do it because they have a passion for it, not to get rich. I know Mike Cichanowski of Wenonah Canoe and a few others have done very well financially, but for the most part, people in paddlesports do it because they love paddling, designing, & building boats, or they just want their occupation to be a part of their "paddling lifestyle" and attempt make a reasonable living at doing it.

That's primarily why I was worked in outdoor specialty and paddlesports businesses. I enjoyed promoting paddling, canoe-camping, backpacking as well as talking to and hanging out with people that had the same interests and passion that I did.

After my wife and I started having children though, I soon realized my family would be better served if I got a "real" job that offered better pay and more family friendly working hours. I do miss some things about working in the paddlesport business, like talking about the boats, the related paddling and camping equipment, canoe-tripping and paddling in general.

So I guess that's why I'm here on bwca.com. This website in particular allows me to talk canoes, paddling & camping equipment, or just "shoot the sh*t" about paddling and canoe-tripping with others that have a similar mindset and passion.

Hans Solo
 
02/02/2017 02:31PM  

Back to the original subject; "why are there always so many for sale?????" I understand ZaraSp00k's question. It's like asking, "If ACME is such a great company to work for, why do they have so much employee turn-over?" Then again, maybe it's not a fair analogy.

As mentioned by others, health, age, and lifestyle changes play a big part on why people move on from Bell canoes or canoes by other manufacturers for that matter.

Case in point, about a week before I was to leave for a "paired solo" Quetico canoe trip with Canoe42 in June last year, and ad appeared on craigslist-Milwaukee. A Bell Magic in Kevlar-Lite was listed by a seller that lived about 28-miles to the west of my home.

Now I needed another solo canoe like I needed another gray whisker, but it was a deal I couldn't pass up. The seller had a mint condition Kevlar-Lite Magic with a beige gel-coat for $875.00! He was also including a Zaveral bent shaft paddle and a portage yoke!

I always loved the Bell Magic after paddling one several years ago. But with having such a large personal livery of canoes already, (many of them being solo canoes designed by Dave Yost), it was hard to justify buying a Magic. I told myself I'd only purchase a Bell Magic if there was a deal too good to pass up. Well, this was that "too good to pass up" deal! :-)

Turns out the seller lives on the Rock River and the canoe had never left his yard. He would just take the canoe out paddling on the Rock River behind his house, but due to back problems, he was forced to give it up. The Magic was always stored inside and was in mint condition. Despite its name, the Rock River is not all that rocky, at least not in the area the seller lived.

Although it was a great deal, the experience was somewhat bittersweet. Here's a guy who is only a few years younger than me that had to give up paddling because of health problems. He was one of the nicest guys you could ever meet and looked to be in good shape. He also told me he had sold his carbon fiber road bike the previous week for the same reason. I really felt bad for the guy.

Nevertheless, he was happy his Bell Magic was getting a good home and was being purchased by someone who appreciated it and would "use it as it was meant to be used", as he put it. He came to that conclusion after I had mentioned my impending Quetico trip.

Much like my aforementioned Wenonah Jensen canoes, I don't see myself ever parting with my "new" Bell Magic. It's one of the more versatile, and now the lightest solo canoe I own. My other solo canoes are either "Expedition" Kevlar, "Goldenglass" and a few are Royalex.

I own and have owned solo canoes by various manufacturers. I'm not so much brand specific, but I tend to gravitate towards certain designers, because I know what to expect from their hull designs. Not to over-simplify it, but I think "fast" for designs by Gene Jensen and Dave Kruger, and "user friendly", predictable, and easy paddling from designs by Dave Yost.

Hans Solo

 
02/02/2017 04:51PM  
quote yellowcanoe: "
Charlie Wilson can't seem to scrape together the funds for matching Crocs"


Now that is funny!!
 
ZaraSp00k
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02/02/2017 05:30PM  
quote butthead: "Anyone look in our for sale forum?
Posted for sale in the last month, that have not been deleted.
5 Wenonahs
15 Souris Rivers
2 Bells


butthead"


Cherrypicker: why did you even bother?

I was expecting someone to say that, all you have to do is go back thru the posts over the last few years and see for yourself
we all notice when canoes we own go up for sale, very very few Voyagers show up here, even fewer Advantage, C1W and its predecessor even less

Indeed, buy the canoe you like and enjoy it, whatever canoe it may be

but it still doesn't explain why there are so many Magics listed here for sale, and I'm not talking about NOW, but rather over the years

 
02/02/2017 06:24PM  
Yup ZS, went back to 2015 and searched diligently to cherry pick a month.
You caught me in the act!

butthead

PS: Sold items are taken off the posting, or are supposed to be deleted. Kinda skews older posts?? bh
 
kona
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02/02/2017 08:23PM  
Excellent thread. Thank you to yellow canoe, Ben, Hans, others for the tangent reading and info. Hope I get to meet some of you folks one day.
 
scottiebaldwin
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05/28/2023 07:49AM  
Blatz: "Love my Northstar"


+1 on that!
 
scottiebaldwin
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05/28/2023 07:54AM  
cowdoc: "It's a numbers game. That and the increasing nomadic nature of life. People buy a popular canoe such as a Magic (after all, everyone told them to get one), then, kids come, jobs change, people move......canoes are sold. Solo canoes in particular seem vulnerable to life changes."


This is the correct answer.
 
Sparkeh
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05/28/2023 08:43AM  
You will never see my magic for sale.
 
justpaddlin
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05/28/2023 10:40AM  
Two different times I owned a Magic that I ended up selling. It's not a dig against the boat; I have a lot of admiration and respect for the Magic. It's just not the best match for my needs and passions and I have other solo canoes that are even more versatile for my use. But depending on how my needs change in the future I'd consider another Magic.
 
05/28/2023 07:37PM  
 
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