So, I'm thinking about getting the Big Agnes Encampment bag. My old Thermarest will fit in it. I heard that there is very little insulation on the bottom of the bags - that's why the pads slip inside them. So do I need to go with a BA pad or will my Thermarest be fine?
If I do go with a BA pad, what is better - self inflating or manual inflating? What are the pros and cons of each?
Most of my camping with it will be BWCA, late August. So warmth is important to me. I can get cold easy when I sleep.

Sleeve is 20x72 or 78 for long size. If the Thermarest fits use it.

butthead

I have a Big Agnes Grouse Mountain, a bag they no longer make and really like it. With the Big Agnes Encampment, there is a full pad sleeve. That means there will be no insulation from about your shoulder blades down to your feet. There may be some insulation near your feet, but I would definitely recommend the 3/4 pad sleeve where it is uninsulated from your shoulder blades to your hips. I've never used a Big Agnes sleeping pad, but thought about buying one several times before deciding to use a hammock. Your old Thermarest will work, but, I'd suggest you get a thicker pad (my old Thermarests were 1.5"). I've always used a Thermarest Neo Air Trekker with my Grouse Mountain with no problems. I'd question the rating on the Big Agnes bags, especially the full sleeve bags. I usually always bring a liner and have definitely used it late September with my bag.
I know some of the Big Agnes pads have insulation, some other pads have a hand pump built in. If I were to buy a new pad, I'd explore all my options, any pad 20" wide by whichever length will work(72" or 78" for long).

All just my opinion!
- Get the BA bag, but I would suggest the 'Ranger'.
- Do not get a self inflating pad, they weigh more and do not blow up as thick. But sometiems they may offer more support.
- You do not have to get a BA pad, you can also get an Exped, Nemo, Etc.
- I suggest an Exped synmat 7 (middle of the road pricing)
- You will need a pad with these bags as they have no insulation on the bottom
- I love this design, it keeps me on top of my sleeping apd all night, and impossible to roll off (as I always did with a normal bag/pad system.
- Spend the money, upgrade, well worth your time.
Goodluck!

I have both the BA Encampment and the BA Lost Ranger and I like them both a lot. The Encampment is synthetic, the Lost Ranger is Down Tek (water repellent down). Advantages of the Lost Ranger is lighter weight and packs down considerably smaller. Although they appear to be cut identically the Encampment seems to have slightly more room in it. Both are rated at 15 degrees and I will say that is optimistic. Used the Encampment on a May trip a couple years ago and it got down to mid 20's. With a BA inflatable but not insulated pad I was on the edge of being comfortable, could have been a little warmer. I now have the Air Core Insulated pad which would probably have made the difference in comfort, plus it is an inch thicker. I am also a cold sleeper and I would say they are more like 25 degree bags but I still like them a lot. The pad sleeve function is slick and keeps me on top of the pad, pillow pocket is nice, zippers work well and they provide a cut between mummy and rectangular so you get some of the benefits of both. If the price difference between them is minimal and the more compact size and lighter weight are important to you the Lost Ranger would be the better choice although for a synthetic bag the Encampment doesn't weigh a lot and packs down reasonably well.

By the way, inflating the BA non insulated pad takes me 23 stout breaths, the thicker Air Core pad about 30.

I am worried about the lack of insulation on the bottom. But I love the design of inserting the pad into the bag to prevent rolling off. I roll off of my Thermarest all the time. I'm considering the Encampment because I currently have a mummy bag and I feel too restricted. This is the main reason I'm in the market for a new bag. The Ranger is a little out of my price range and looks a little more mummy-like than the Encampment.
I do see a Lost Ranger on Amazon for $209, but it's the long size. I would prefer the shorter one, but the shorter one is quite a bit more in price.
Do you have problems with feathers escaping all over the place with the down bags?

No on the feather problem. I think the cut of the two is very similar although as I said, the Ranger feels slightly tighter. Still much roomier than a typical mummy though.

When you lay on a typical bag you compress the insulation underneath you and it loses much of its functionality, thus the principle behind these effective bags. The pad is the insulation(for cooler weather when it is needed, and assuming you have an insulated pad) and it does not compress like the insulation in your bag.

quote lindylair: "I have both the BA Encampment and the BA Lost Ranger and I like them both a lot. The Encampment is synthetic, the Lost Ranger is Down Tek (water repellent down). Advantages of the Lost Ranger is lighter weight and packs down considerably smaller. Although they appear to be cut identically the Encampment seems to have slightly more room in it. Both are rated at 15 degrees and I will say that is optimistic. Used the Encampment on a May trip a couple years ago and it got down to mid 20's. With a BA inflatable but not insulated pad I was on the edge of being comfortable, could have been a little warmer. I now have the Air Core Insulated pad which would probably have made the difference in comfort, plus it is an inch thicker. I am also a cold sleeper and I would say they are more like 25 degree bags but I still like them a lot. The pad sleeve function is slick and keeps me on top of the pad, pillow pocket is nice, zippers work well and they provide a cut between mummy and rectangular so you get some of the benefits of both. If the price difference between them is minimal and the more compact size and lighter weight are important to you the Lost Ranger would be the better choice although for a synthetic bag the Encampment doesn't weigh a lot and packs down reasonably well. "

Ok. So I've researched the Ranger a little further and you've really made me want that bag! But it looks like the latest model is being closed out. Many places no longer have them. And the places that do, want a lot of $$. I did find a long one for $212, but I don't really want long. :( The best price I can find for a regular size is about $259. That's about $100 more than I wanted to spend on a bag.

I'm afraid if I wait too long, I won't be able to get that bag at all. But I don't have that kind of $$ right now. Ugh! Plus, I have a long list of "needs" before my trip in August. A new stove, a good axe, sleeping bag, waterproof day backpack, and maybe a backup water filter. I don't have a firstborn child to sell, so does anyone need a new kidney?

Ok. So I've researched the Ranger a little further and you've really made me want that bag! But it looks like the latest model is being closed out. Many places no longer have them. And the places that do, want a lot of $$. I did find a long one for $212, but I don't really want long. :( The best price I can find for a regular size is about $259. That's about $100 more than I wanted to spend on a bag. "

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but $160 is not going to get you much sleeping bag, certainly not if you're looking for the qualities that the Lost Ranger possesses. One pound of down fill in 700+ fill power rating currently costs more than your budget. That's with or without the water-repellant treatment that that bag's down comes with. For what it's worth, these bags"> are within the $160 budget you mentioned, synthetic insulation, and rated in the 5-29F category.

This bag is the only 0F bag I could find in the price range. It'll be huge, but it should be warm.

These bags are down insulated but most of them are women's bags if that's an issue.

I have the BA Hog Park bag and the sleeve is big enough that my Exped Synmat 9 fits into it perfectly.

On my Oct trip last year, there were a couple cold nights, and it was plenty warm...
This bag is roomy, so roomy I was able to invite my Australian Shepherd inside to warm her up and I was able to zip it shut. :)

quote Goldenbadger: "I'm afraid if I wait too long, I won't be able to get that bag at all. But I don't have that kind of $$ right now. Ugh! Plus, I have a long list of "needs" before my trip in August. A new stove, a good axe, sleeping bag, waterproof day backpack, and maybe a backup water filter. I don't have a firstborn child to sell, so does anyone need a new kidney?"

I have a retired Lost Ranger Bag in my closet, willing to part with it Less than $100. In spite of the temp ratings I'd rate it at 30 degrees with a full length 20X72 Thermarest or Insulated Air Core BA pad. If you are interested my e-mail is listed at the left.

butthead

quote butthead: "

quote Goldenbadger: "I'm afraid if I wait too long, I won't be able to get that bag at all. But I don't have that kind of $$ right now. Ugh! Plus, I have a long list of "needs" before my trip in August. A new stove, a good axe, sleeping bag, waterproof day backpack, and maybe a backup water filter. I don't have a firstborn child to sell, so does anyone need a new kidney?"

I have a retired Lost Ranger Bag in my closet, willing to part with it Less than $100. In spite of the temp ratings I'd rate it at 30 degrees with a full length 20X72 Thermarest or Insulated Air Core BA pad. If you are interested my e-mail is listed at the left.


butthead"

That's awesome, Butthead! Email sent.

I will stay with my BA inflatable mattress. Insulation is comfortable, the thickness supports me for back and shoulder support, and it's inflated in 20-22 breaths for me which I don't mind having to do.

I'm glad to see Goldenbadger moving on your generous offer Butthead.
Goldenbadger, if you are interested in pairing the Lost Ranger bag with a
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core air mattress I have an unused one I could let go for say $50.00 plus shipping. I don't remember if it's the blue one or the burgundy one. Just let me know.

quote unshavenman: "I'm glad to see Goldenbadger moving on your generous offer Butthead.
Goldenbadger, if you are interested in pairing the Lost Ranger bag with a
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core air mattress I have an unused one I could let go for say $50.00 plus shipping. I don't remember if it's the blue one or the burgundy one. Just let me know."

Unshaven, I'm very interested. When you say blue or burgundy, would it just be a difference of color or different models?

Blue is the latest version, thicker outside chambers to help hold you in place on the mat. I have both to compare. Blue has 6 chambers, burgundy has 7.

butthead

quote unshavenman: "I'm glad to see Goldenbadger moving on your generous offer Butthead.
Goldenbadger, if you are interested in pairing the Lost Ranger bag with a
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core air mattress I have an unused one I could let go for say $50.00 plus shipping. I don't remember if it's the blue one or the burgundy one. Just let me know."

Unshaven, I'll send you an email.

My advice: slow down, get more information, and think this through.

Before buying a Big Agnes sleeping bag it's important to understand what's it's like to sleep in one. It's a different experience, especially if you're a side sleeper.

Some people like them because everything stays in place (bag with pad in pocket). ***But it's not always desirable for the bag to be held in place by the pad,*** especially if you're a side sleeper.

Imagine that you're lying on your side and the bag is held by the pad along three sides. You can't pull the bag in close to your body to close air gaps. Nor can you wrap it around your feet to close the huge space at the bottom of the bag. You're left with air pockets that draw heat away from your body. Backpackers say that BA bags are overrated by 15 degrees, and this is one of the reasons.

Now imagine that you're lying on your back and you have the hood tied close to your face on a cold night. You want to turn over onto your side. As you turn inside the bag, your face is now buried inside the hood. So instead of turning inside the bag, you try turn WITH the bag. Nope, you can't, because the bag is held down by the pad. Frustrated, you take the pad out of the bag and lay the bag on top of the pad. Now you can pull the material close to you. But you discover that when you try to turn over with (not inside) the bag your uninsulated rear end is exposed to the cold. ***This is one reason why conventional sleeping bags have insulation on the bottom: so you're fully covered no matter how you turn, and so you can turn with the bag and still have the hood fit properly.

A further disadvantage of this design is that the material on the bottom of the bag (the pocket) adds weight but absolutely no insulation. That's a waste of weight.

If you were to lie in a BA sleeping bag in a store for 5 minutes you would know immediately whether you like this system or not.

As for the BA Insulated Air Core, it was top of the line when it was first made, but it has been eclipsed by the Exped Synmat line. The Synmat 7 is significantly more comfortable than the BA Insulated Air Core.

The prices offered to you here are very good, but make sure you understand the design functionality of the Big Agnes "sleep system." It was designed for back sleepers but even for them it has disadvantages. There are other affordable options. In your place I would do more research. This isn't a decision that I would make on the spur of the moment if my finances were limited.

My rating of the BA Lost Ranger as a side sleeper: zero. And of the Air Core: 2 stars, because there are better choices. (I've owned both.)

I will throw this out there.
- I sleep on my side, and sometimes on my chest (but never on my back)
- My wife is also a side sleeper, she loves my BA so much that she insisted she have one also.
- Every one of my friends that I've loaned my bag to (3), have converted with-in 1 trip!
- I've never been more comfortable than I am in my BA pad sleeve bag.

- I would pull the trigger on that Ranger from Butthead!

- I do agree that you should try the bag in a store first.

quote halvorsonchristopher: "I sleep on my side, "

Do you use the hood? If so, what happens to the hood when you sleep on your side?

Two points:

1) Not using the hood will surely lower the bag's temperature rating.

2) Breathing into the hood will introduce moisture into the down, again lowering the temperature rating.

So how do you avoid breathing into the hood if the hood has to be facing up due to the bag + pad design? The hood can only turn to the side (where presumably your face is) if the bag is free to move, which it isn't.

People complain about sliding off the mattress, but this solution introduces bigger problems. There are ways to avoid sliding off the mattress. Big Agnes pads are extremely slippery on both the top and bottom. The whole mattress slides around in the tent if pitched on a slight incline. I have no such problem with the Exped Snymat due to the better material on both sides and larger tubes, which keep you from falling off the side of the mattress.

Big Agnes sleeping bags are essentially quilts. People should understand the whole quilt concept before buying one.

Good thoughts but I would also dispute most of them. The amount of material in the very thin pocket sleeve weighs mere ounces, negligible and it is not useless, it provides a fixed place for the pad that makes up a great sleep system. I am almost exclusively a side sleeper and have never slept more comfortably. I flop back and forth from left to right side and everything stays right where it is supposed to.

I do agree that you can't fold the toe box around your feet but because of the shape of the bag the toe box is tapered and there is not that much air space, not at all like a true rectangular bag.

Again, I disagree that you can't pull the sides of the bag around you to minimize air gaps, you can on top and the sides to some extent, just not on the bottom. The semi rectangular shape of the bag minimizes those air gaps and it is not like a large rectangular bag where there is a lot of open space. For an average sized person in the right sized bag it fits loosely enough to be comfortable but snug enough so that it is still efficient.

It definitely is personal preference but as halvorson said most folks that see it like the idea and many try it - I don't know anyone who hasn't liked it. Get in one at REI and roll around in it a bit to see what you think. Started with BA pads and got the Air Core for a gift - it does seem that Exped pads may have some nice pads that are equal or better than the BA pads though.

I am fully converted to sleeve type bags, they just work much much better for me. I would never go back unless it was for cold weather winter camping, for anything 0 and above its sleeve bags for me.

Lilypad has some valid points about these bags, but those concerns are over-rated in my opinion. I will agree that I can never realize the temperature rating of my BA Summit Park, which is larger than the Ranger, in large part because it is huge and has an overly large foot box. However, that is part of what makes it so nice and comfortable for me. I don't have any issue sleeping on my side or stomach in mine, but you definitely can't bundle up tight and cozy like on a mummy bag. I could also see the moisture issue being a problem if you are trying to sleep in these bags below freezing for many days in a row.

Unless you're trying to push this bag to its temperature limits, I don't think you'll have a problem. The price you're being offered is worth the risk, IMO, and if you hate it, I'm sure you can recover the cost.

quote cycle003: "Lilypad has some valid points about these bags, but those concerns are over-rated in my opinion. I will agree that I can never realize the temperature rating of my BA Summit Park, which is larger than the Ranger, in large part because it is huge and has an overly large foot box. However, that is part of what makes it so nice and comfortable for me. I don't have any issue sleeping on my side or stomach in mine, but you definitely can't bundle up tight and cozy like on a mummy bag. I could also see the moisture issue being a problem if you are trying to sleep in these bags below freezing for many days in a row.


Unless you're trying to push this bag to its temperature limits, I don't think you'll have a problem. The price you're being offered is worth the risk, IMO, and if you hate it, I'm sure you can recover the cost. "

I'm a side sleeper and I love my BA....never had an issue and I trip in early spring and fall (Oct)

quote LilyPad: "

quote halvorsonchristopher: "I sleep on my side, "

Do you use the hood? If so, what happens to the hood when you sleep on your side?


Two points:


1) Not using the hood will surely lower the bag's temperature rating.


2) Breathing into the hood will introduce moisture into the down, again lowering the temperature rating.


So how do you avoid breathing into the hood if the hood has to be facing up due to the bag + pad design? The hood can only turn to the side (where presumably your face is) if the bag is free to move, which it isn't.


People complain about sliding off the mattress, but this solution introduces bigger problems. There are ways to avoid sliding off the mattress. Big Agnes pads are extremely slippery on both the top and bottom. The whole mattress slides around in the tent if pitched on a slight incline. I have no such problem with the Exped Snymat due to the better material on both sides and larger tubes, which keep you from falling off the side of the mattress.


Big Agnes sleeping bags are essentially quilts. People should understand the whole quilt concept before buying one.


"

I use the hood when sleeping on my side and it's not a problem. I can cinch the hood opening tightly enough that so that just my face is uncovered and can turn on my side and leave my nose and mouth uncovered and cinch it tight enough that the side of my head that would be exposed is covered. I have other down mummy bags, without a pad sleeve, and yes the Lost Ranger that i use doesn't wrap as tightly around the body as a bag without the sleeve pad, and I think that the 15° rating on the Lost Ranger is a little overstated, maybe because of that. I've been out in temps in the high 20's and been OK. I'm a side sleeper, stomach sleeper, all over the place sleeper and haven't found a bag that matches my style better. Someone made the argument that a pad sleeve weighs more, as I see it the bottom of a bag with insulation in it is basically two layers of fabric with something that weighs something inside of it. The BA bag is two layers of fabric with nothing in it, can't possibly weigh more. As was suggested, looks like you're being offered a good deal, and if it doesn't meet your sleep style you probably won't be out anything. The BA system works for me, I'd recommend giving it a shot.Sleep tight.

I would agree with everything halvorsonchristopher said. I've been using BA bags for about 4 years and love them. I finally got a new lost ranger that was pretty reasonably priced on steep and cheap.

I'm impressed with the fact that when I sleep on my side (90% of the time) even my hip won't touch the ground using a BA q-core pad.

I'm an Official Member of the Hog Park with Syn9 Fan Club


OINK! Hog Park Video

I really like my marmot.

I really appreciate everyone's advice so far. And I am taking all of it to heart. I will be trying the BA system out at REI this weekend. I don't like the constriction of mummy bags, so I'm not real worried about the air pockets and roominess. The bag I currently have (a 20+ year old LL Bean of some sort) is a mummy bag and it drives me crazy when I try to roll over on my side and curl up in a ball. It is very constrictive. I'm primarily a back sleeper, but do sleep on both sides as well. I'm very excited and appreciative of the great deal I have been offered by Butthead and Unshavenman. I can't wait to try this sleep system out. I am amazed over and over again by the kind and generous souls on this site. Both with advice and offers of equipment. I hope to pay it forward someday when I have enough equipment that I can let go of some of it to someone that needs it.

Good luck with whatever you choose!
;) get the BA sleep system with an Exped Mat...

Here are two sleeping bags to compare to make my point.

BIG AGNES LOST RANGER
Claimed temperature rating: 15F
Actual temperature rating according to most backpackers: 30
Weight: 2 lbs 15 oz.

LL BEAN DOWN SEMI-RECTANGULAR 35
Claimed temperature rating: 35
Actual temperature rating: I've used this sleeping bag in the 20s quite a few times for kayak camping.
Weight: 2 lbs 4 oz.

As a semi-rectangular bag the Bean bag is very roomy, but the foot is smaller and much easier to warm up than the BA. It has insulation on all sides. Therefore you can turn however you want and the bag moves with you. It's 11 oz. lighter, which I think is meaningful.

mummy bags.

more often than not I use mine as a quilt and just sleep on the exped. ive never rolled off my exped using my bag as a bag, or as a quilt. I am a side sleeper.

quote LilyPad: "Here are two sleeping bags to compare to make my point.


BIG AGNES LOST RANGER
Claimed temperature rating: 15F
Actual temperature rating according to most backpackers: 30
Weight: 2 lbs 15 oz.


LL BEAN DOWN SEMI-RECTANGULAR 35
Claimed temperature rating: 35
Actual temperature rating: I've used this sleeping bag in the 20s quite a few times for kayak camping.
Weight: 2 lbs 4 oz.


As a semi-rectangular bag the Bean bag is very roomy, but the foot is smaller and much easier to warm up than the BA. It has insulation on all sides. Therefore you can turn however you want and the bag moves with you. It's 11 oz. lighter, which I think is meaningful."

I've slept 30degree bags down to 15, doesn't mean I'd claim its a 15, very anecdotal.

Sleeve bags have insulation on all sides as well assuming you use a good pad, compressed down has next to no Rvalue.

quote Ragged: I've slept 30degree bags down to 15, doesn't mean I'd claim its a 15, very anecdotal. Sleeve bags have insulation on all sides as well assuming you use a good pad, compressed down has next to no Rvalue."

Yes, anecdotal, exactly. Anecdotal means as field tested by actual users. The anecdotal reports of Big Agnes's inflated temperature ratings are pretty uniform. Those reports mean more to me than any EN rating. Why hasn't BA corrected these ratings in all these years of negative comments about them on the internet?

Having owned Big Agnes and LL Bean down sleeping bags, I can tell you that Bean's ratings are if anything generous and BA's are fantasy.

You're pointing out that the insulative value of Big Agnes sleeping bags is completely dependent on the mattress. In really cold weather I would not want to have to depend on a BA air mattress for my safety. What happens if you have a puncture or other failure that can't be repaired? At least with a conventional sleeping bag you're still completely surrounded in insulation.

I have a BA Buffalo Park and I love it because the Buffalo park is an oversized bag without insulation on the bottom it needs a pad. I have both self inflating thermarest type and a BA IAC. I use the IAC for the B-dub just because it packs so much smaller but they both work well very well. Any pad will work in them as long as you find the right size pad for the bag.

My Buffalo park is rated a 40 degree bag, I used it last weekend in single digit weather in a hot tent, without a cot, so I was on the ground, and was not cold at all.

quote LilyPad: "


You're pointing out that the insulative value of Big Agnes sleeping bags is completely dependent on the mattress. In really cold weather I would not want to have to depend on a BA air mattress for my safety. What happens if you have a puncture or other failure that can't be repaired? At least with a conventional sleeping bag you're still completely surrounded in insulation."

I don't think anyone (on here) is advocating that the sleeve bags are ideal for cold weather use. That's not what this thread is about and its not what the vast majority of people use them for. For the average person they work just fine and many love them for the stated reasons, myself included.

I think your point has been made, you don't like sleeve bags. For me, its the only way I'll go. I'm guessing I have 75 nights or more in my Stratoloft and I have loved every one of them.

Ragged: "I don't think anyone is advocating that the sleeve bags are ideal for cold weather use.

Big Agnes is making the claim that the Lost Ranger is ideal for cold weather use. 15 degrees is extremely cold for a lot of people. Cold enough to kill you. You're contradicting Big Agnes, with good reason. At least Butthead was honest in rating it at 30 degrees.

The Insulated Air Core has the same problem with the exaggerated temperature rating. To quote a professional (male) reviewer: "I have found that I will be cold on it anywhere lower than about 25 F." Women will sleep even colder on it. Plus there are a lot of reports of failures of this mattress (fabric and valve).

quote LilyPad: "

Ragged: "I don't think anyone is advocating that the sleeve bags are ideal for cold weather use.

Big Agnes is making the claim that the Lost Ranger is ideal for cold weather use. 15 degrees is extremely cold for a lot of people. Cold enough to kill you. You're contradicting Big Agnes, with good reason. At least Butthead was honest in rating it at 30 degrees.


The Insulated Air Core has the same problem with the exaggerated temperature rating. To quote a professional (male) reviewer: "I have found that I will be cold on it anywhere lower than about 25 F." Women will sleep even colder on it. Plus there are a lot of reports of failures of this mattress (fabric and valve).



"

Man O man, it would seem to me nobody in here gives a hoot what some mfg claims, maybe you should direct your angst at BA,here is their contact info. Most of us have been around the block enough times to know you never trust a temp rating and either try the bag out prior to a trip (I have slept on my deck/in my backyard before) or bring enough extra clothing or a liner to supplement if needed.

I know my buddy has a Lost Ranger, he's about 6'1" tall and 210 lbs, wearing a midwegiht wool baselayer and using an exped Downmat 5 lite he was perfectly fine on a "day of ice out" trip where the nights got down to 16-17.

Been staying away from this topic as I clearly stated my preference, having been referenced by the Guest Paddler I will clarify.
I've used a Lost Ranger since they came out, the style with side to side baffling across the chest with an original style BAIAC (black/gray), sleeping at temp of low teens wearing only merino longjohns and a balaclava. Not warm but doable. Have worn out 2 BAIAC's over it's time of use 10 years+. That setup is comfortable at 30 degrees, and warm, in my own opinion. So much so that I now have, Yampa, Pomer Hoit, Horsethief, hanging in my closet.
For comparison have owned and used, North Face Cat's Meow, Slumberjack Denali Equinox, Several REI bags, Sierra Designs Flex.

The only Big Agnes bag I own that does not comfortably meet it's temp rating is the Lost Ranger, but I considered it a great bag for high 20 degrees up, never lost sleep because of the integrated pad, or hood design, it is also a discontinued design that has been improved thru several versions just like the BAIAC mattresses which are warmer, have thicker side tubes and very comparable to Exped inflated mattress (Down9 and Down5s in my closet as well as new version BAIAC).
Guest Paddler has an opinion and that is fine. But lecturing repeatedly to folks who use and like BA system bags becomes old quickly. Odd how such problems described are not mentioned more in the huge number of user reviews online (and there are many more rated reviews for the Lost Ranger than the LL BEAN DOWN SEMI-RECTANGULAR 35). "Big Agnes sleeping bags are essentially quilts. People should understand the whole quilt concept before buying one." shows a lack of knowledge of either. I spent a year looking at and trying down quilts vs Sierra Designs BackCountry Bed versions vs other down sleeping bags. Big differences between each, advantages and disadvantages. With a budget over $500 to spend on a down mid range 30 degree backpacking sleep system I bought the BA Horsethief. Biggest reason is the integrated mattress sleeve. 9 months of use and at temps in the 20's I am very happy with the Horsethief/Exped Down 5s.

butthead

I never imagined this thread would create such controversy when I created it. I am very appreciative of everyone's advice, tips, and certainly of Butthead's generous offer to sell me his Ranger. An offer that I will most likely be taking him up on. And of Unshavenman for his generous offer on a pad (which I have already purchased from him).

I don't plan on sleeping in temps less than 35 degrees or so. And certainly not less than 20! So regardless of if the temp rating on BAs isn't quite accurate, I feel this bag will suit my needs. I don't know of many bags at all that are true to their temperature ratings. I've chosen BA because of all of the glowing reviews on here of their bags/pads and for certain, their customer service.

We are all adults and can make decisions on our own about what we like and don't like. We are human, so naturally we don't all like the same thing. What works for me won't work for the next person. It's not worth arguing over or getting angry about. Don't get mad if someone doesn't like what you like. And certainly don't rip on them for what they happen to like. We're not politicians and we're not 6 years old.

quote butthead: " But lecturing repeatedly to folks who use and like BA system bags becomes old quickly.............. "Big Agnes sleeping bags are essentially quilts. People should understand the whole quilt concept before buying one." shows a lack of knowledge of either. "

Couldn't have said it better myself, have to wonder how many nights he's spent in a sleeve bag, be it BA or Nemo. Everyone I know that try's it falls in love with it.

Guest Paddler has an opinion and that is fine. But lecturing repeatedly to folks who use and like BA system bags becomes old quickly.

butthead"


agreed

That LL BEAN DOWN SEMI-RECTANGULAR 35 Looks pretty nice! They should build a pad sleeve into it! ;)

- If the BA Lost Ranger and other BA bags are so bad, why does L.L.Bean sell them on their website?

quote Ragged: "

quote butthead: " But lecturing repeatedly to folks who use and like BA system bags becomes old quickly.............. "Big Agnes sleeping bags are essentially quilts. People should understand the whole quilt concept before buying one." shows a lack of knowledge of either. "

Couldn't have said it better myself, have to wonder how many nights he's spent in a sleeve bag, be it BA or Nemo. Everyone I know that try's it falls in love with it."

I certainly don't think the system is perfect, but it's the most comfortable I've ever used. I have 30-40 nights in my Summit Park and Exped Synmat 7.

Bags with pad pockets like the BA rock. I've been using them for 40+ years. I have several down bags, including 2 BA down bags, and the only part of LillPad's criticism that I agree with is the fact that the temp ratings of BA bags are overrated. That is true. Just select the model accordingly.

Every night that I have slept in the BWCAW, it has been in a North Face Cat's Meow bag and on an original Therm-a-Rest pad. I think that everyone needs to change to my system. Now.

:-)


(Oh, wait... maybe on those earliest trips it was in my Gerry Mountain Sports down bag... or was it in the one my wife made with a Frostline kit?... never mind...)

I think I still have these booklets in the attic somewhere. Seems like I ought to review...

quote Goldenbadger: "I never imagined this thread would create such controversy when I created it. . . . It's not worth arguing over or getting angry about. Don't get mad if someone doesn't like what you like. And certainly don't rip on them for what they happen to like. We're not politicians and we're not 6 years old. "

Personally I'm not angry in the least. I like to talk about gear and understand how it works and whether it works the way it's claimed to work. Having an opinion that's different from other people's doesn't mean that one is angry. Expressing an opinion isn't "ripping" others. Are you saying that expressing an opinion that's contrary to the majority is infantile??

None of my posts were critical of others or aimed at individuals, or joking at anyone's expense.

Controversy is not a bad thing.

Ugh. That's all.

quote Goldenbadger: "Ugh. That's all. "

"Today I will behave as if this is the day I will be remembered." Cool! I like it!

quote LilyPad: "

quote Goldenbadger: "Ugh. That's all. "

"Today I will behave as if this is the day I will be remembered." Cool! I like it!"

Thank you, LilyPad.

This debate has ended.

quote bojibob: "This debate has ended.


"

Yes, it has. And as I've said before, I really appreciate everyone's help and advice.

Debate has ended? Rats, I'm always a day late and a dollar short.

Love the Big agnes system and no longer wake up in a wad frantically searching for a zipper I can't find.

Less than impressed with the pad. I have the insulated version and despite taking pains to baby the pad it is now a leaker. I have a few friends who have had seam seal issues (BA to their credit replaced the pads). Plus I detest blowing the thing up........and I am less than impressed with their inflation system.

I have decided to go with Xped UL 7.........love their inflation system. No more long blow up sessions. Grab a few bags of air and Presto! Nice!