Not sure if this story has been out.Now it’s in the news so here’s the Link. I hope more of the story comes out, right now it’s rather disturbing.

Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska.

It does sound bad. His family must be hurting right now.

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short.

poobah: "

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short."

+1

poobah: "

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short."

+1 He seemed like a very caring individual who was searching for something bigger than himself I really admired him .

Large amounts of blood in tent and human remains scattered around. Foul play is not suspected. I have many questions. 15 minute walk to his car and Echo trail. I can only guess what killed him and scattered the remains around. RIP

Blood in the tent, then bones were found nearby the camp. Curious to know what happened. Sad story.

"Forest Service officers returned to the area earlier this month and found a campsite about 1?½ miles from the trail’s entrance off the Echo Trail."

I'm not seeing any campsites close to 1.5m from the trailhead. Curious what timeframe this all happened?

The SHT was a destination for me this year. I'm adequately creeped out now.

My guess is he died of exposure. It was a nasty, rough winter this year that started in early October up there. I'm sure animals took advantage of an easy meal. I don't find this creepy at all. Sounds a lot like McCandless trying to make it on his own and lost to mother nature. My heart goes out to his family. Though I couldn't think of a better place to go out. I too loved and admired what that "clown from Alaska" was about.

minnmike: " My guess is he died of exposure. It was a nasty, rough winter this year that started in early October up there. I'm sure animals took advantage of an easy meal. I don't find this creepy at all. Sounds a lot like McCandless trying to make it on his own and lost to mother nature. My heart goes out to his family. Though I couldn't think of a better place to go out. I too loved and admired what that "clown from Alaska" was about. "

+1
Pretty good scenario, IMO.
McCandless was a book-smart guy with inner troubles to work out. His zest for life is why so many of us give his story due respect, I think. He overestimated his skills and underestimated the ways of the wilderness. A somewhat stubborn, disillusioned youth, perhaps? No clown.

dew042: ",,,I'm not seeing any campsites close to 1.5m from the trailhead..."

Probably dispersed camping in SNF. No campsite needed.

poobah: "

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short."

Totally agree.

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

What qualifies as "clown" exactly? Everyone on this forum tests themselves against nature each time they enter the wilderness. Do you become "clown" only when you fail? Or perhaps, only if you get ridiculous in the scope of testing yourself? If a married couple thought they could spend a full year in the BWCA, that would clearly be "clownish"; right? Or, if a guy tried to paddle a canoe the full length of the Pacific coast of Canada, carry that canoe up and over the Chilkoot pass, paddle down the Yukon but, take a break from paddling part-way through to canoe and drag that canoe up river, then portage that canoe miles across the tundra, then continue paddling down the Yukon before finishing off with a few weeks paddling the Bearing Sea. "Clownish"?

It is unfortunate that Mr. McCandless and perhaps Mr. Grider did not survive their adventures but, their spirit of adventure deserves a bit of the same reverence we hold for those who survived.

"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." --T. S. Eliot

Article

Windigo??

I have never seen a Wendigo, but I know they have been watching me. I am lacking greed.

Surviving alone for a whole winter in a tent is a tough business.

Better be well prepared and equip.

The large amount of blood in the tent is concerning.

Could be a suicide and the furry forest critters do what they normally do to dead bodies.

I am sure more information well be forth coming.

Why were they searching for him in October if they knew he had intended to camp through the winter?

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

I'd call him more of a naive dumb azz

respect Mother nature or suffer the consequences

Crazy. I hiked part of the Sioux Hustler this October and talked to some guys about that car parked near the trailhead. The car wasn't parked in the designated parking area, and if I recall it was blocking a different (cabin?) access road. May have even talked to the person who called the Sherriff's office about it. The car looked like it had been there a while already in mid-late October.

Succumbing to mother nature would be most everyone's' guess but "a large amount of blood inside the tent" would lead me to believe otherwise.

Bodies that have been dead for a little bit do not bleed. I wonder if he had a firearm with him and had an accident inside of his tent.

Bones scattered about could definitely be explained by the wild animals.

Whatever it was, it's unfortunate.

I often dream of disappearing into the wild such as McCandless did or perhaps as this guy was trying to do but alas the grim realities of unpreparedness or limited skills keep me at week long trips.

Much respect to those who follow that burning from inside.

Bushman: " "a large amount of blood inside the tent" would lead me to believe otherwise.


Bodies that have been dead for a little bit do not bleed. I wonder if he had a firearm with him and had an accident inside of his tent.
"

Agreed. Sounds like he bled out in the tent. Could have been an ax injury or perhaps a head injury from a fall.

RIP.
It would have been nice if the authorities or newspaper elaborated a little more to leave less to the imagination. Sounds like an injury followed by animals. I would find foul play to be unlikely. And an animal attacks also unlikely compared to injury. Best guess is a hatchet was involved.

The lack of information on something like this tends to usually point towards a suicide.

So if he did commit suicide inside the tent, then body remains were scattered around the campsite? Did wolves go into the tent then? Many questions. God bless him and his family.

Bushman: "I often dream of disappearing into the wild such as McCandless did or perhaps as this guy was trying to do but alas the grim realities of unpreparedness or limited skills keep me at week long trips.

Much respect to those who follow that burning from inside.
"

Could not have stated this better! Have attempted one solo trip thus far, and if you haven't, you are really missing something truly different.

Duff: "The lack of information on something like this tends to usually point towards a suicide."

Could be,but in this case it was a extremely long time after his death and body found or parts. Yes very sad.

riverrunner: "
The large amount of blood in the tent is concerning.

Could be a suicide and the furry forest critters do what they normally do to dead bodies.
"

That would be my guess.

It does sound like suicide to me. Then wolves.

Maybe it is just me, but talk of suicide seems wrong. If for no other reason than respect for the family and the dead. If it was my family and me they would know it was an animal attack or injury from accident. He had been there all winter. We can wait to find out what happened.

There was man from Duluth that died 4 years ago on the same trail. He became sick and died. He was with 2 friends that went for help.

Bushpilot: "Maybe it is just me, but talk of suicide seems wrong. If for no other reason than respect for the family and the dead. If it was my family and me they would know it was an animal attack or injury from accident. He had been there all winter. We can wait to find out what happened.

There was man from Duluth that died 4 years ago on the same trail. He became sick and died. He was with 2 friends that went for help."

I don’t think it wise to speculate so much with little information. Kinda sad, but very real. I feel bad for his family. As far as clown? We don’t know his circumstances... suicide? We can’t really know. Usually there is more evidence with suicide in my opinion. I’m guessing we’ll know more at a later date... if we are to know.

nctry: "

Bushpilot: "Maybe it is just me, but talk of suicide seems wrong. If for no other reason than respect for the family and the dead. If it was my family and me they would know it was an animal attack or injury from accident. He had been there all winter. We can wait to find out what happened.


There was man from Duluth that died 4 years ago on the same trail. He became sick and died. He was with 2 friends that went for help."

I don’t think it wise to speculate so much with little information. Kinda sad, but very real. I feel bad for his family. As far as clown? We don’t know his circumstances... suicide? We can’t really know. Usually there is more evidence with suicide in my opinion. I’m guessing we’ll know more at a later date... if we are to know.
"

Alone in the Wilderness in the winter the list is endless what could of happen.

Chances are we will never know what happened in this instance and speculation will continue to be only that... In regards to McCandless I said clown and I stand by this, it's easy to read the book or watch the movie and see him with some romantic awe but in reality he had no plan B, it was success or death and we know how that turned out, poor planning, overestimating one's own skills, etc.. Once the snows come to backwoods AK you're there for the duration and life is not quite as predictable as it is on you tube videos. On a smaller scale head into the Bdub with a couple days food and expect to stay a few months, or the whole winter, plenty of fish to catch anyone can do it right? And the Bdub is basically a park , a well traveled park, good luck. Every true "explorer" plays the odds, I'll take ten to one no problem but do your due diligence, 1,000,000 to one takes the level from risky to size 18 shoes and a big red nose.

The deceased man being discussed was supposedly an experienced outdoorsman. New Mexico may not be as cold as Minnesota but it is an environment that is equally harsh if not more so. This guy may have been the real deal, wanted to test himself. He may have overestimated his ability to deal with our subarctic cold. I’ve spent time in his part of New Mexico. It’s awesome. The mountains in the background of this photo are from his part of New Mexico.







My daughter spent several years out there living on an Apache reservation. My kids really know how to live

Sandman2009: "Why were they searching for him in October if they knew he had intended to camp through the winter?"

Because the St. Louis County Sheriff’s Office received a call last October about a vehicle parked at the trailhead to the Sioux Hustler Trail.

My thoughts and prayers to this young man's family.

It is easy to criticize this young man and Chris McCandless for their mistakes and call them names. It serves no useful purpose.

McCandless left a great story of a young man coming of age and how he dealt with many personal issues while trying to figure out his mission in life. He also left a lot of wisdom. The McCandless story has been a great framework for me and both of my sons to discuss a number of difficult issues. A quick google search of McCandless quotes are below:

"Happiness only real when shared."
“Don´t hesitate or allow yourself to make excuses." ...
“The very basic core of a man's living spirit is his passion for adventure." ...
“Make each day a new horizon.”

I think every dad and son should see the movie, read the book and discuss the themes together.

TomP: "My thoughts and prayers to this young man's family.


It is easy to criticize this young man and Chris McCandless for their mistakes and call them names. It serves no useful purpose.


McCandless left a great story of a young man coming of age and how he dealt with many personal issues while trying to figure out his mission in life. He also left a lot of wisdom. The McCandless story has been a great framework for me and both of my sons to discuss a number of difficult issues. A quick google search of McCandless quotes are below:


"Happiness only real when shared."
“Don´t hesitate or allow yourself to make excuses." ...
“The very basic core of a man's living spirit is his passion for adventure." ...
“Make each day a new horizon.”


I think every dad and son should see the movie, read the book and discuss the themes together. "

Well said, Tom. No matter the circumstance, a little respect and kindness is not asking too much.

I dare say that there are numerous people on this web site that have at least equal, better, or overwhelmingly better skills than McCandles, or the individual recently found in the BWCA.

How many current or past individuals who frequent this site have contemplated or completed a full winter camped out "anywhere"?
I have never even contemplated it. I think it would be a poor decision on my part; setting myself up for failure, and needless suffering.

In my opinion, both people discussed made poor decisions.
Both paid natural consequences for their poor decision making skills.
Both may have had psychological issues, and both may have been victims of their own hubris.

Maybe not clowns, but certainly not role models.
Nature can be a "mother", a tough teacher; both found out the hard way.
Not the first to do so, and certainly not the last.
Think Timothy Treadwell..................
Do a google search of frozen bodies strewn about on the slopes of Mt Everest.
Prime example of hubris & poor decision making.

Bob

P.S .Drunks trying to paddle a canoe "are clowns", but I prefer to call them "river dorks".

If anyone here wants to challenge themselves with a season long adventure be sure to leave detailed info with each branch of local authorities. Abandoned cars raise alarms when noted by others and then agencies have to check it out if they have not been properly informed. In this case St. Louis sherriff, USFS DNR and since it was near an International border the U.S. Border patrol too. Notify them all, I have had phone calls made to my home when an agency saw my vehicle " abandoned" at the trail leading to my remote cabin. I have a "vanity" plate for the same reason.

I am sure that many people over the years have attempted and succeeded in doing what the two subjects of this thread tried to accomplish. It's only those that fail we criticize as inept, fooling and mentally ill. Many we probably don't hear about their achievements unless their goal is to video tape it and put it online for all to see. Many though do it for personal reasons and don't care to share it with the world. I hope all you critics of those that fail never have anything bad happen to you or some one you care about. I commend them for trying. Yeah they died young, but they probably lived more than most. Sometimes it's about quality of life not quantity.

If this was your child or brother would you have the same reaction?

Wow what a interesting thread. If I camp under 40 degrees, I get a cold every time!! No thanks to long term winter camping. You better know what you are doing!! Alex wasn't prepared for wilderness living. "The Lost Alaskans is a good shore about wilderness living on your own. CRAZY

TomP: "My thoughts and prayers to this young man's family.


It is easy to criticize this young man and Chris McCandless for their mistakes and call them names. It serves no useful purpose.


McCandless left a great story of a young man coming of age and how he dealt with many personal issues while trying to figure out his mission in life. He also left a lot of wisdom. The McCandless story has been a great framework for me and both of my sons to discuss a number of difficult issues. A quick google search of McCandless quotes are below:


"Happiness only real when shared."
“Don´t hesitate or allow yourself to make excuses." ...
“The very basic core of a man's living spirit is his passion for adventure." ...
“Make each day a new horizon.”


I think every dad and son should see the movie, read the book and discuss the themes together. "

This post is a great example of folks romanticizing Mc Candless:

Happiness is only real when shared; An absolute crock of dung, are those soloing in the BWCA not experiencing happiness? or others acomplishing things alone?

Don't hesitate or allow yourself to make excuses: Had he hesitated or made excuses he would be alive today, his family would not be grieving, do you believe his passing was noble?

“The very basic core of a man's living spirit is his passion for adventure."Is it?, doubtful, one of many maybe but the core? What about friendship? Relationships? Love?

“Make each day a new horizon.” : This would make a great Hallmark card unfortunately it's utter Bullcrap.

I agree I think every dad and son should see the movie, read the book and discuss how much of a selfish waste of life it resulted in. His family no doubt fells the empty space he left in their lives everyday and I pity them but don't pretend he left anything noble behind with his poor decisions, and yes my words may be seen as harsh by some, but I am a realist and only discussing things like this honestly can prevent others from following in his footsteps.

I'm very surprised by all the positive McCandless sentiments. From what I recall of the posts around the time the movie came out, the general consensus was that while he did stuff that was pretty cool, for the most part he was stupidly unprepared. Mostly negative toward him then, and now years later a lot of you seemingly admiring him.

There have been some really loud and negative folks who have left or who have been removed. It has made a big difference ;)

minnmike: " I commend them for trying. Yeah they died young, but they probably lived more than most. Sometimes it's about quality of life not quantity.
"

I agree totally. Most people settle to live in fear of coming out of their comfort zone or basically just fearful of everything in the world. Fly overseas? No. Go into a big city for a day? No. Take a BW trip? Oh hell no!

You get my point. I love the people who go for their dreams as my signature will confirm.

Bushman:

I often dream of disappearing into the wild such as McCandless did or perhaps as this guy was trying to do but alas the grim realities of unpreparedness or limited skills keep me at week long trips.

Much respect to those who follow that burning from inside.
"

I agree with everything you said here. Often I have that burning desire to leave the world and live off the grid deep in a land where people hardly go. I respect McCandless for trying. I also learned from him too. Which is the point of all people that go out on these kinda trips. Dick Prennoke could be in the same category of McCandless. But he went in without delusions and more experience and we celebrate his toughness today because he survived. Easily couldn't though.

I cheer for all these types of individuals that go into the wild and test themselves, looking for something. That's called exploration.

I didn't know about the McCandless story so I read up on it.
He was certainly not all with it. Maybe a free spirit but nothing more. And his inexperience, ignorance, and lack of planning caused his death. Had he even brought a map, he could have just walked out of his predicament.

The man that died in the BWCA exhibits many characteristics of Mr McCandless. Tragic, sad,disturbing, and extremely bizarre that a person would do what he did.

Tom

maybe i missed it, is it perfectly legal to spend the winter where he set up camp?
sad story, condolences to family.

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

IIRC, McCandles basically just stumbled on the bus, as he went into the area with very little knowledge of the local surroundings (or proper footwear even). Dude wasn't even planning on over-wintering, just got stuck due to not knowing the seasonality of the river (or that there was a cable nearby which he could have used to cross).

I 100% support someone's right to brave the wilderness on their own terms. Just as I support someone else's right to make the 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes' comments.

riverrunner: "

Could be a suicide and the furry forest critters do what they normally do to dead bodies.

I am sure more information well be forth coming."

That was my first thought as well. Large amounts of blood with no foul play suspected leads me to think it was either a suicide or some sort of major injury. I'm leaning away from major injury since if it was that bad I don't think the natural reaction would be to go lay down in your tent by yourself with no hope of help coming and let the injury bleed out. I think most people would at least attempt to seek help so if it were an injury it seems odd that most of the bleeding took place in the tent. The only way injury would make sense to me is if it somehow happened in the tent and it was bad enough he couldn't move to seek help. Accidental discharge of a gun comes to mind for that scenario. Or if it was a bad injury and he crawled into the tent to where he had things that could be used to control the bleeding and he passed out after losing too much blood in the process.

Whatever killed him I'm sure the critters are responsible for scattering the remains. I'm also sure thats why more info isn't readily available. Hard to immediately say with any accuracy what killed a person when the body is in pieces scattered around the woods likely with much of it consumed or badly decomposed.

Regardless his family has to be hurting right now. It also goes to show that being alone in the wilderness is no joke, even more so in the winter.

I came across this bus and took the picture when I lived in Alaska.
Right outside of Denali NP. My friend was chief LEO there.

LindenTree: "I came across this bus and took the picture when I lived in Alaska.
Right outside of Denali NP. My friend was chief LEO there.
"

Congratulations.

I remember in college I had a friend that said "when you ASSUME you make an ASS of U and ME". Kind of a weird saying but I think it may apply in this situation. After reading the article and all the comments I'm sure I don't know what happened but I wouldn't assume that this poor guy even needed a plan B because it's possible his plan A went as desired. Maybe he wanted to give his family the benefit of some uncertainty. I don't know.

carmike: "

LindenTree: "I came across this bus and took the picture when I lived in Alaska.
Right outside of Denali NP. My friend was chief LEO there.
"

Congratulations. "

I cannot tell a lie, the rest of the story about my trek to see the bus. 49th state brewery.

Before the internet and armchair critics, I feel the world was not as much of a disgustingly shitty place when someone died, especially a young person with a developing brain. I love how all these older people were brilliant, responsible and never made any mistakes when they were younger. Or, now, apparently.

I was running around the PNW when the wilderness bus guy was. I have often thought how strange it is that our stories were kind of similar but I never died. I did stupid things and had to learn the hard way....I guess I can relate to him. And, my adventure made my life worth living. Watching the movie and reading the book, I made some similar underestimations. And, thinking that a book can prepare is you is a common, young person mistake! I was much more cautious that he was, but I also think he did have some bad luck. I mean, he tried to prepare in the ways he knew. Too bad he did not run into an experienced wilderness person that could have shown him the ropes and told him how HARD it actually would be.

Anyway, I really have no stomach for this internet phenomenon of bashing dead people from this bogus, arrogant superiority (sniff, nose in air). I have lost two brothers. For ANYONE to make such stupid and heartless comments about a death (any death), I guess you all have never gotten that phone call or that knock on the door. Hope you never have to join our club.

Seriously have some RESPECT for other human beings.

Agree.

2 of my family members where in the area of his camp a few day before he was found. My nephew and Brother in law were looking for a back way into Shell lake via Woksapiwi Lake . They came across his truck a white full size utility type with a Maines sticker and NM plates covered in snow. They also found a bag with broken boot bindings in it out in the middle of the woods. His camp was by Woksapiwi Lake. My brother in law said he was less than a mile from this guys camp.

I have received 'that call' before.

It must be a matter of perspective. I have not seen any offensive posts in this thread. The 'clown' remark was not out of bounds IMO. He did really foolish things and died from his serious mistakes.

A man died in the BWCA. And so far it sounds like everyone feels for his death and his family. But not talking about it doesn't make it less sensitive to the readers. We talk about all things BWCA, good and bad.

It is very painful losing a loved one tragically and suddenly. It happened in my family and in my support group I know of a lot more. So I personally am very sensitive to it. But I feel the more I talk about it, the better I feel. Maybe others feel like I do.

When someone dies, talk to everyone that will listen. It helps heal the wound.
Tom

bwcasolo: "maybe i missed it, is it perfectly legal to spend the winter where he set up camp?
sad story, condolences to family."

No you have 2 weeks and you need to exit. I met a guy who used to stay out their for a full 2 weeks at a time in the winter and guide. He indicated that the Forest Service followed his whereabouts and adherence to the rules closely.
I hope they release more information on the cause of death as I enjoy winter camping in the BWCA and do it solo sometimes. Yes, a very sad story. It just doesn't make sense?

You can stay as long as you want. You have to move camp every 2 weeks.

tumblehome: "I have received 'that call' before.


It must be a matter of perspective. I have not seen any offensive posts in this thread. The 'clown' remark was not out of bounds IMO. He did really foolish things and died from his serious mistakes.


A man died in the BWCA. And so far it sounds like everyone feels for his death and his family. But not talking about it doesn't make it less sensitive
It is very painful losing a loved one tragically and suddenly. It happened in my family and in my support group I know of a lot more. So I personally am very sensitive to it. But I feel the more I talk about it, the better I feel. Maybe others feel like I do.

When someone dies, talk to everyone that will listen. It helps heal the wound.
Tom"

Um, I still call bogus on this post. Talking and sharing information are a lot different than what goes on on the Internet and the type of drivel I’m talking about. But, anyways, I’m done talking on this thread. Maybe I’ll die doing something stupid one day, and you can talk and share about my mistakes. I’m hoping not to die at my desk from a respectful, socially acceptable heart attack. : )

I guess he will be the only one that really knows what happened in his camp.

Monday Morning Coroners

Blatz: "Monday Morning Coroners "

Great Name for a Band

Portage99: "Before the internet and armchair critics, I feel the world was not as much of a disgustingly shitty place when someone died, especially a young person with a developing brain. I love how all these older people were brilliant, responsible and never made any mistakes when they were younger. Or, now, apparently.


I was running around the PNW when the wilderness bus guy was. I have often thought how strange it is that our stories were kind of similar but I never died. I did stupid things and had to learn the hard way....I guess I can relate to him. And, my adventure made my life worth living. Watching the movie and reading the book, I made some similar underestimations. And, thinking that a book can prepare is you is a common, young person mistake! I was much more cautious that he was, but I also think he did have some bad luck. I mean, he tried to prepare in the ways he knew. Too bad he did not run into an experienced wilderness person that could have shown him the ropes and told him how HARD it actually would be.


Anyway, I really have no stomach for this internet phenomenon of bashing dead people from this bogus, arrogant superiority (sniff, nose in air). I have lost two brothers. For ANYONE to make such stupid and heartless comments about a death (any death), I guess you all have never gotten that phone call or that knock on the door. Hope you never have to join our club.


Seriously have some RESPECT for other human beings. "

i am truly sorry for your loss, but you just joined the internet and armchair critic club posting what you did. oh, i have lost loved ones as well.

There sure is a lot of speculation surrounding this event. He could have been the most prepared person in the wilderness but sometimes accidents just happen no matter how careful you are and regardless of planning. About a month ago I purchased a rather expensive smoker and it didn't work straight out of the box. After some trouble shooting yesterday we found the problem. I tested it for a few hours before reassembling it so some of the parts were pretty hot. There was a heavy steel heat shield that I set on top of the unit so my dogs wouldn't burn their nose smelling it. It weighs 10 -12 lbs., it's a square box and has sharp corners on it. I had 2 screws left to put in from the underside and I was laying on the ground putting them him, with my head resting on the concrete patio. I turned the unit (it has wheels) to reach the last screw... wham!! I have no idea how long I laid there but when I came to and stumbled into the house I had a knot the size of a golf ball just above and to the front of my left ear. Instead of going to the ER I grabbed an ice pack and laid down on the couch. I told my wife to keep checking on me and to call 911 if I didn't wake up. Later I realized what happened when I looked out the window and saw the steel box laying on the lawn. This poor guy could have slipped and hit his head on a rock, chunk of ice, or a frozen log and just went inside his tent to stay warm. The blood could have been post-death for all we know. Let's show some respect people.

I am sure they will try piece it together. Journals, family interviews, his past history, weapons or other evidence at the scene, etc.

McCandless wasn't that ill prepared. He misidentified a plant and it was his journal that gave the clues. Jon Krakauer, who wrote the book "Into the Wild" help solve the mystery. Read the book before you judge him. Krakauer did an excellent job researching his life and paid for the scientific research that led to the most likely cause of his death....eating the seeds of "Eskimo Potato".

BTW...If I die in the wilderness and my flesh is consumed by nature.... I am ok with that, my family understands that. Don't condemn me for whatever mistake I may have made.

'Into The Wild' Author Tries Science To Solve Toxic Seed Mystery

He sent the seeds back to the Michigan lab, Avomeen Analytical Services, for more thorough tests. About nine months and some $20,000 later, Krakauer published results in the journal Wilderness & Environmental Medicine in March showing that the seeds did indeed contain a toxin. But it wasn't beta-ODAP. It was another amino acid, L-canavanine.

Plenty of legumes store this toxin in their seeds to ward off predators. The compound is similar an essential amino acid, arginine, and it tricks the body's cells into thinking it's good for them. "And then it wreaks havoc," says Krakauer. "It screws up your ability to metabolize, so you essentially starve. It short-circuits your metabolism."

The plant in question is the Eskimo potato, also known as alpine sweetvetch, or Hedysarum alpinum. The hardy little plant grows across Alaska and northern Canada. McCandless, along with plenty of Alaska natives, had relied on the carrot-like roots as a staple. But Krakauer could find no record of people eating the seeds. The L-canavanine toxin could be why.

"Once the roots became unpalatable in midsummer, the natives did not eat these seeds," Krakauer explains. "So, they knew something that we didn't."

Krakauer had a co-author on the paper: Jonathan Southard, a biochemist at Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

"Through all these twists and turns, now, finally, I think we have figured out what is in those plants," says Southard. "There's millions of plants out there, and they make lots of strange compounds that we don't know about yet."

I was thinking of a hike on the Sioux Hustler this spring. I'm still thinking about it but I would probably not sleep very well.

Northwoodsman: "This poor guy could have slipped and hit his head on a rock, chunk of ice, or a frozen log and just went inside his tent to stay warm. The blood could have been post-death for all we know. Let's show some respect people."

Very well put.

Lots of things to investigate when you have a unknown death.

This could take months before we have any answers.

Even then they might not come up with what really happen.

riverrunner: "Lots of things to investigate when you have a unknown death.


This could take months before we have any answers.


Even then they might not come up with what really happen."

RR is speaking from decades as an LEO.

Jon Turk once said that many of his fellow explorers died not because they weren't as skilled or prepared as him, but simply less lucky. BeaV, who is rightly praised at bwca.com, could have died dozens of times on his great trip.

hobbydog: "I am sure they will try piece it together. Journals, family interviews, his past history, weapons or other evidence at the scene, etc.


McCandless wasn't that ill prepared. He misidentified a plant and it was his journal that gave the clues. Jon Krakauer, who wrote the book "Into the Wild" help solve the mystery. Read the book before you judge him. Krakauer did an excellent job researching his life and paid for the scientific research that led to the most likely cause of his death....eating the seeds of "Eskimo Potato".


BTW...If I die in the wilderness and my flesh is consumed by nature.... I am ok with that, my family understands that. Don't condemn me for whatever mistake I may have made.


'Into The Wild' Author Tries Science To Solve Toxic Seed Mystery


He sent the seeds back to the Michigan lab, Avomeen Analytical Services, for more thorough tests. About nine months and some $20,000 later, Krakauer published results in the journal Wilderness & Environmental Medicine in March showing that the seeds did indeed contain a toxin. But it wasn't beta-ODAP. It was another amino acid, L-canavanine.


Plenty of legumes store this toxin in their seeds to ward off predators. The compound is similar an essential amino acid, arginine, and it tricks the body's cells into thinking it's good for them. "And then it wreaks havoc," says Krakauer. "It screws up your ability to metabolize, so you essentially starve. It short-circuits your metabolism."

This is the story Krakauer has pushed. There is a lot of skepticism. Wikipedia's article on Christopher McCandless has a basic overview of the debate.

The simplest explanation is that a severely malnourished man died of malnourishment.

It's been years since I read the book, but if memory serves, McCandles went into the Alaskan bush with no map, no waders, and only 25 lbs of rice for the winter, because he'd hunt for the rest of his food with his .22 caliber rifle. Free spirit or not, that's just plain not smart at all.

The person who died on the Angleworm trail years ago and I believe they only found maybe some clothing left and a little more>
Was that a hiker or-and also camping back there? I don't remember?

Lloyd Skelton was the lost hiker on Angleworm trail. That was almost 15 years ago and he is still missing. He went in on a day hiking permit and never seen again. They found some of his belongings but that was it.

Basspro69: "

poobah: "

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short."

+1 He seemed like a very caring individual who was searching for something bigger than himself I really admired him ."

Well said Basspro69 and poobah.

Hans Solo

HansSolo: "

Basspro69: "

poobah: "

nooneuno: "Reminds me of the clown that was going to live the winter in the abandoned school bus in Alaska. "

Clown? Seems like a harsh thing to say -- but maybe you know something about him that was not covered in the book or the movie? Personally I admire his moxie, as he rolled a very consequential pair of dice and came up short."

+1 He seemed like a very caring individual who was searching for something bigger than himself I really admired him ."

Well said Basspro69 and poobah.


Hans Solo"

+2 They had more you know what then 98% of us on here
Then just after that the thread went down hill.

People will say anything from behind a screen.
How would you feel if that was your Son,Brother or what ever and you seen this thread saying he was a clown Blah Blah.. Its life anything can happen anywhere or time

We should all know better !
End of rant

Don't personally know enough to comment about this one, but a story as there's a lot of opinions:

Close relative lost her husband when they were about 29.

At the funeral, she recalled all the wonderful things about him.

But she also called out - for all to hear, young and old, the series of poor decisions, so easily avoidable, that led to his death.

I'd like to think her willingness to bravely face that allowed others to take off the rose-colored glasses, and perhaps learn from his mistakes.

sns: "Don't personally know enough to comment about this one, but a story as there's a lot of opinions:

Close relative lost her husband when they were about 29.

At the funeral, she recalled all the wonderful things about him.

But she also called out - for all to hear, young and old, the series of poor decisions, so easily avoidable, that led to his death.

I'd like to think her willingness to bravely face that allowed others to take off the rose-colored glasses, and perhaps learn from his mistakes."

One big difference between the wife and the rest of us is that she knew the details of how her husband died. Another difference is that she "recalled all the wonderful things about him," providing balance to her eulogy.

walleyevision: "It's been years since I read the book, but if memory serves, McCandles went into the Alaskan bush with no map, no waders, and only 25 lbs of rice for the winter, because he'd hunt for the rest of his food with his .22 caliber rifle. Free spirit or not, that's just plain not smart at all."

This is my understanding, too. The impression I got was that McCandless had a romantic vision of his endeavor, which transcended preparation. He also clearly believed that the wilderness would be his grocery. But then read McCandless' journal notes (in Krakauer's book) about his killing of a moose. It will give some idea as to his ineptitude in living off the land. One can only live off the land if one knows how to. McCandless didn't know how to.

Additionally, many locals believed McCandless was responsible for numerous cabin break-ins.... which just happened to occur when he was in the vicinity. IIRC, food was taken. Hmmmm....

McCandless was tragedy of his own making. I don't believe he possessed any extraordinary facet of himself that the rest of us should admire. He may have had a "zest for life," but zest without smarts is kind of pointless in the Alaskan wilderness.

Mike

Bushpilot: "Lloyd Skelton was the lost hiker on Angleworm trail. That was almost 15 years ago and he is still missing. He went in on a day hiking permit and never seen again. They found some of his belongings but that was it."

Lloyd Skelton

If you want to know why he was found dead in a bus in Alaska read the book his sister wrote called Wild Truth. Very interesting.

When you are lost, you will seek a place of calm. But if peace doesn't follow, tragedy can follow.

MikeinMpls: "McCandless was tragedy of his own making. I don't believe he possessed any extraordinary facet of himself that the rest of us should admire. He may have had a "zest for life," but zest without smarts is kind of pointless in the Alaskan wilderness.

Mike"

In my opinion McCandless knew the risk he was taking and took it anyway. He wanted to live life to the fullest. His biggest mistake was not bringing an area map.

But compare this to Beav doing his mammoth Alaska trip in 2013. If he would have died on the Bering sea how many would have called him foolish or worse - a clown? Beav knew the risk and took it anyway for similar reasons that McCandless had. To life life fully and test yourself.

In my world dying at 24 years old is not living life to its fullest. And this could happen to many people. Survive and helps other survive a half a dozen times or so in life threatening situations. Than ask yourself the question if you have what it takes. Until than don't kid yourself you might not have what it takes. Many dozens of people are rescued form the bwca every year. If it wasn't for the fs and the sar volunteers many of these would be body recoveries.

RIP, Jordan Grider. You died way too young. None can know what you went through in your final hours. Hope it was peaceful; not violent.

missmolly: "One big difference between the wife and the rest of us is that she knew the details of how her husband died. Another difference is that she "recalled all the wonderful things about him," providing balance to her eulogy."

Amen - even from a person without religion.

TomT: "

MikeinMpls: "McCandless was tragedy of his own making. I don't believe he possessed any extraordinary facet of himself that the rest of us should admire. He may have had a "zest for life," but zest without smarts is kind of pointless in the Alaskan wilderness.

Mike"

In my opinion McCandless knew the risk he was taking and took it anyway. He wanted to live life to the fullest. His biggest mistake was not bringing an area map.

But compare this to Beav doing his mammoth Alaska trip in 2013. If he would have died on the Bering sea how many would have called him foolish or worse - a clown? Beav knew the risk and took it anyway for similar reasons that McCandless had. To life life fully and test yourself."

Did Beav have some idea as to the hazards and risk? Probably. Did Beav know how to paddle? Probably. Did Beav know how to survive for a period of time if required? Probably. Did he know what he didn't know? Probably. McCandless had no idea as to hazards and risks. If he did, he would have been better prepared. He would have arrived with more than a .22 rifle, some boots, and a bag of rice.

I agree with BushPilot. I do not see risk taking as a function of living life to the fullest. Perhaps other do, and can only believe they've lived the fullest life by risking their life. And I believe McCandless WAS living his life to the fullest, as he saw it. And apparently McCandless' fullest life meant going into the Alaska bush with a .22 rifle, some boots, and a bag of rice.

Mike

+2

One can be a kind, upbeat person with good intentions and still be a clown. Or a knucklehead, if you want a less harsh word. For example, Timothy Treadwell (Grizzly Man.) He was, by all accounts a great person. But he was also extremely deluded into thinking that grizzly bears loved him and accepted him as one of their own. To them, he was just convenient food they could kill without expending any effort when other, tastier options weren't accessible.

Or Aron Ralston, the idiot who had to cut his arm off with a dull multi-tool because a boulder fell on it. Reading his book made me genuinely question how he had managed to survive to that point in his life. He made so many stupid decisions in the outdoors that he was definitely playing with house money at the point where his arm was trapped under the boulder... and he also should have died then. People tend to glorify and/or romanticize the adventurous types... but when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. I don't see any problem in calling out someone for their stupidity if it helps other people avoid making the same mistakes in the future. I've spent many days in the outdoors. Choosing to spend time in the wilderness is a risk. Pushing your abilities is a risk. But these should be calculated risks. Risk taking has consequences - especially when there is no plan B.

That said, before I got married, I had always had the life exit strategy to travel to the outdoors where carnivores or scavengers are plentiful once I grew old to the point that I knew my time was near. I'd buy a one-way plane ticket and take a taxi (or Uber, now) to a trailhead, walk in to the wilderness and let nature take its course. That would be better than whatever miserable existence I had to look forward to without a spouse and/or children to care for me in my old age. I'd leave instructions to not spend any money or effort in recovering my remains. I'd rather be at rest in the wilderness than in a cemetery. Maybe that's what this chap in the BWCA had in mind.

BuckFlicks: "One can be a kind, upbeat person with good intentions and still be a clown. Or a knucklehead, if you want a less harsh word. For example, Timothy Treadwell (Grizzly Man.) He was, by all accounts a great person. But he was also extremely deluded into thinking that grizzly bears loved him and accepted him as one of their own. To them, he was just convenient food they could kill without expending any effort when other, tastier options weren't accessible.


Or Aron Ralston, the idiot who had to cut his arm off with a dull multi-tool because a boulder fell on it. Reading his book made me genuinely question how he had managed to survive to that point in his life. He made so many stupid decisions in the outdoors that he was definitely playing with house money at the point where his arm was trapped under the boulder... and he also should have died then. People tend to glorify and/or romanticize the adventurous types... but when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. I don't see any problem in calling out someone for their stupidity if it helps other people avoid making the same mistakes in the future. I've spent many days in the outdoors. Choosing to spend time in the wilderness is a risk. Pushing your abilities is a risk. But these should be calculated risks. Risk taking has consequences - especially when there is no plan B.


That said, before I got married, I had always had the life exit strategy to travel to the outdoors where carnivores or scavengers are plentiful once I grew old to the point that I knew my time was near. I'd buy a one-way plane ticket and take a taxi (or Uber, now) to a trailhead, walk in to the wilderness and let nature take its course. That would be better than whatever miserable existence I had to look forward to without a spouse and/or children to care for me in my old age. I'd leave instructions to not spend any money or effort in recovering my remains. I'd rather be at rest in the wilderness than in a cemetery. Maybe that's what this chap in the BWCA had in mind.
"

Amen

Mike

Those of you who can’t seem to find some middle ground between “clown” and “hero” have me scratching my head.

I have enough respect for a dead human who caused no physical harm to anyone but himself, not to label him a clown. That doesn’t mean I idolize him or consider him heroic. It means I have a little filter in my brain that says “my mom would be so ashamed of me for writing this.”

I must not be able to read in between the lines. What I got out of the article is that someone died in the Bdub last fall and they found his remains this spring. They didn't know how he died. There was blood in tent and his remains were spread around probably from wild animals during the winter.
I don't see anything in the article that indicates hero, clown, novice, outdoors man, accident, murder, etc. It amazes me the discussions we get from one article with no information in it. Apparently a lot of members here know him personally!
I'd sure hate to bring up politics or religion!!
My thoughts go out to the family of the deceased.

Yep, GG and Cap'n.

Does anyone know what lake or campsite they found him at? I was on a solo last October in the Little Indian Sioux/Shell Lake area and just curious.

He had set up camp by Woksapiwi Lake. Not at a designated campsite.

thegildedgopher: "Those of you who can’t seem to find some middle ground between “clown” and “hero” have me scratching my head.


I have enough respect for a dead human who caused no physical harm to anyone but himself, not to label him a clown. That doesn’t mean I idolize him or consider him heroic. It means I have a little filter in my brain that says “my mom would be so ashamed of me for writing this.”"

Amen. You Rock!

This is my first time on this site and find it interesting indeed.
I'm Jordan's mama and not sure if I'm replying properly. Sorry for the length. Thank you all for the many respects offered. We're not offended by the name calling although it doesn't help anyone. We often called him a dork because his sense of humor was witty and old fashioned and often unexpected. We like camping, but not to the survival extreme that he did, and yes, he was testing his skills and knowledge.

I wish Jordan had connected with many of you before his trip, it may have helped. Bushman and Jwartman59, I appreciate your perspective.

We as a family had so many of the same thoughts that you all have voiced here. It is our nature I suppose to want to fill in the gap of missing info so I'll add what I know in hopes it will help you be more equipped on your adventures. It is true that there are way too many possibilities and not enough concrete evidence about his death.

We just visited your Beautiful Majestic area to collect his things, however some things will be held for evidence up to a year. He did have a firearm but it was on safety, he took 150 lbs of dry goods for the winter, left most of it in his truck at the trail head and it looked like he had intention to restock his camp as needed. We believe he far underestimated the area, the winter, and the wildlife. Jordan had planned to survive, not suicide, he just didn't have that in him even in the toughest of times.

He has lived much of the past 10 years in the woods between upper state NY, KY, and here. He hiked the Appalachian trail and had hoped to do the Pacific next year. He talked about staying on the Appalachian as a guide. He had a dozen knives with him, a bow, ax and other gear. We too suspected a camping injury, but unless the investigator has items we are unaware of, all of them were still in their sheaths. He was in his hammock (his bed of choice), in his sleep ware (3+ layers) and it wasn't that cold in October yet for him to die of exposure. The sleep ware was torn significantly but there's just no way to tell if that was the cause of death or the result afterward. Wish we could define this for you all and for us. The tent and hammock had no tears and the sleeping bag and blankets were not with his stuff, so that is curious for us too. Personally...I suspect he was in wolf territory and didn't realize their presence.

Jordan was likely not there more than a week or two when he died. He loved to whittle and there was no evidence that he had time for that hobby and there was only small evidence of a camp fire which I suppose was also his way of keeping camp. We were told there was suspicion that his death was before snow fall, but we don't know how they think that because it's all still held for evidence for their investigation.

His vehicle was indeed parked in front of a gate to some cabins and we paid to get it moved to the designated parking in November, but at that time they could not find his campsite (just as he wanted it). After finding an abandoned vehicle the Officers have to open a missing persons file after a few weeks, so that's what sparked the initial search. Bad weather kept them from looking deeper in the winter and, we as a family, asked them not to endanger any of their staff looking for him because he was there intentionally. Once spring allowed deeper trips into the woods, they were able to find his camp, but he did a good job of hiding it.

Jordan's death is definitely tragic, sorrowful at least for us, and unexpected, sometimes we even think "needless", but I hope it will serve to educate other adventurers. Jordan's planning was all in his head, maybe paper would have helped. We all tried to talk him into starting this trip in the spring so he could learn the area, talk with locals, and get more preparation, but once he was set on a plan, no one could talk him out of it. I hope others will learn from him to drop their strong headedness, and consider the advice of others. I hope others will learn to take some of those weekend and week trips to the area before deciding on a location. He did tell us that he wasn't afraid to pack out after a week or a few if it wasn't a good fit for him, so he did have a plan B. Hope you all can take something away from this to give his death some sort of small meaning for us.

I'm happy to answer questions, I hope this helps you, and I wish you many wonderful adventures...that you survive! Isn't that the idea behind "survivalists"? It was definitely his intention. Happy Trails!

I am sorry for your loss.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have spent my whole life in the woods of this area. Your son may have done nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have 2 family members who spent time in this area since last fall winter camping. About 1 mile from your sons camp. Both times they were harassed by wolves form all sides. Wolves stay away from groups of people, generally. However they have become very bold as humans are not a threat to then anymore. One person sleeping is easy for a wolves to surround. There was another experienced hiker that went missing from the same area several years earlier. He was also by himself.


Did the authorities offer up any ideas?

I wish I would have meet Jordan.... he sure sounds like my kind of person.

It sure sounds like Jordan had a great family.

JIM P.

Wow.

Thank you for coming here to offer this information. My condolences to you & your family.

mirth: "Wow.


Thank you for coming here to offer this information. My condolences to you & your family."

Prayer be with your family.
Many of us on this sight understand yours son's love of the outdoors and adventure of the wild. It is a special place.

Thank you sunshinebelle for the thoughts you've offered here. I pray you find peace and comfort as you grieve, and the memories from the years you had with your son are precious and sweet. So sorry for your loss and suffering. God bless.

Thanks for your report.

Has Law enforcement issued any kind of report.

Or are they still in the investigative stage.

Unknown deaths like this can take a long time.

One does not want to close them to soon with out solid evidence as to what
happened.

The sad thing is one might not ever find out what really did take place,

Law enforcement has not completed their report and therefore can't say a whole lot. It's a waiting game, but with only bones found, there's no way to know if he has a flesh wound.

We definitely think he would have been better with a group. And he missed out on this one, seems like a great group, full of resources, he would have enjoyed it.

Hope I've helped.

We're a strong, close family and Jordan always seemed to pull us together and did it again. We'll survive! (pun intended)

Oh, Belle, you raised a great kid.

SunshineBelle: "We're a strong, close family and Jordan always seemed to pull us together and did it again. We'll survive! (pun intended)"

What incredible perspective you seem to have. I’m sure it hurts like hell but your strength is obvious here. Sending warmth and positivity for your family.

Thanks for sharing, Belle. Your son sounds like a great guy and adventurer. Sorry for your loss.

thegildedgopher:"

What incredible perspective you seem to have. I’m sure it hurts like hell but your strength is obvious here. Sending warmth and positivity for your family."

Thank you it is an incredible pain, but we all say we want to die doing what we love and he did. He would have been mift if he had died in some ordinary way like a car accident or sickness. No one wants to be the one left behind to deal with all of the pain though...he's probably a happy camper now. After the shock wore off, we had some fun with very irreverent joking as you may be able to tell. Gotta laugh between crying. It won't keep us from camping in the woods and I really hope you all aren't scared out of the woods, just wiser.

I've really been helped by chatting with this group... Thank you to all of you for letting me chat and feel more understanding of your area and mindsets.

How wonderful for you to share about your son and his adventurous life. My condolences to you and your loving, brave family.

Sunshinebelle, so sorry for your loss. He sounded like a fine young man. I’m sure many here would have loved to paddle and trip with him.

God bless you and your family.

Sunshinebelle,

I'm very sorry for your loss. You may know bwca.com is a close group and all of us are appreciative of your input and perspective. Perhaps comforting is the plan many of us have to be at peace in the places we love most when each of our times come. Certainly, the Quetico-Superior calls all of us. What is not explainable walks these woods, travels these rivers and streams, and lie deep in these lakes. May you take solace in your son having experienced and felt within his soul something deeper than any of us could ever put to words.

SunshineBelle-so sorry for your loss! And thank you for sharing your/Jordan's story. I'm glad you could see past the name calling/criticism/speculation (even if most seemed directed at McCandless).

I was in the area near Woksapiwi Lake in mid-late September after missing a turn on the Sioux Hustler Hiking Trail. We questioned the overgrown trail (which extended more or less north when we should have been jogging west) and eventually (miles later) realized our error after using our cellphones for geolocation. I can't help but think I helped blaze the trail Jordan followed to his death:( I take solace knowing he was an experienced woodsman and if he was on that trail it probably wasn't by accident.

We had snow/sleet and near freezing temps in September so I can envision the harsh conditions he might have faced.

Rich aka tg

Sunshine bell, your son had that adventure spirit, something he shares with many people on this site. I am so sorry for your loss.

SunshineBelle, as many have stated I am sorry for your loss and appreciate you sharing a bit about Jordan. He sounds like a person I would have a lot in common with and would have loved to know. I feel your strength and your pain. Hold onto your fond memories of Jordan. I hope to meet him in the great wilderness beyond when my time is up. I will remember him in my decision making when soloing. Thank you. Mike

Sunshinebelle, thank you for an extremely thoughtful and honest message that shows your deep love and understanding. Many of us have made mistakes that could have led to serious injury or death and so we understand that even well laid plans can go awry. And it can happen in town as well as in the wilderness. There are a couple of mistakes I’ve made on both mountains and on the road that still give me shivers. I am so sorry that Jordan wound up on the wrong side of what can be a slim divide between life and death. Thank you for sharing some of his life with us and I wish you strength for the time ahead.

^^^ Andym captured my sentiments better than I could express. My deepest sympathies to you and your family.

andym: "Sunshinebelle, thank you for an extremely thoughtful and honest message that shows your deep love and understanding. Many of us have made mistakes that could have led to serious injury or death and so we understand that even well laid plans can go awry. And it can happen in town as well as in the wilderness. There are a couple of mistakes I’ve made on both mountains and on the road that still give me shivers. I am so sorry that Jordan wound up on the wrong side of what can be a slim divide between life and death. Thank you for sharing some of his life with us and I wish you strength for the time ahead."

+1. Absolutely.

So sorry for your loss, thanks for sharing.

Sunshine bell I want you and your family to know you have a friend in Minnesota. I know you live a long ways away. If there is anything that I can do to help or things that need to be done up here let me know. I will do what I can. Also please keep us posted on things like memorials or services. I don't know that I could go to New Mexico for a service. But I will say I will never forget Jordan and I will think of him every time I am in the area of his camp. God Bless you and your family. JIM

SunshineBelle,

I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your son's story.

Bushpilot: "Sunshine bell I want you and your family to know you have a friend in Minnesota."

Thank you so much. I truely feel befriended by this group. It’s always interesting to me how easily we can connect with some folks, and not with others. I feel your friendship. I will certainly reach out if I have a need. I think for the moment at least we are in good shape.

I hope any of you will keep me in mind and reach out if you are in my neck of the woods and I can be of service to you. I know several guides and many hunters, I’ve explored (from a car or camper) most all of our state and can tell you some of the prettiest spots.

To Andym and Arctic, thank you for sharing your understanding of mistakes, it’s been super tempting to blame him in our grief....”if he would have....” so many things to think in hind sight. I’m sure he would say some too. I just hope his death can be a teaching tool.

To so many others, thank you! One of my “if only” thoughts is that I wish he had a group like your’s and I’m blessed to meet you.

I have several questions about how it is to camp and deal with the outdoors in your area. We were astounded by the bugs, but we have rattle snakes here. Please redirect me if this is not the place to ask those questions and if there is a better suited message board. It was light earlier in MN, and got dark later (we went the last weekend of may), but the sun is more intense here in NM and seems brighter. We assumed that was because of the North/South difference.

Let me share an ounce of my adventures: Next week we head out to dry camp on a ranch where we dress in the 1800’s and shoot 1800- early 1900 single action guns in a world wide competition. I usually stay two weeks out there, but this year will be short because I can’t take more time off work after our trip to MN. I’ve counted at least 23 who are coming from Australia to compete. We have so much fun but the camping is like being in a parking lot...except for the rattle snakes. The temps will be near 100 and make me pity the pioneer ladies who were still wearing corsets, huge gowns, and dealing with all of our dry dust..ugh. This photo is of my hubby and a couple of our other boys. If you do decide to visit NM, end of June is our event, first of Oct. is balloon fiesta, and there’s no hotels so please let us host you. Blessings

When I first read about it, Sunshinebelle, and no one knew just what happened (and still don't), my thoughts were not of mistakes or accidents anymore than they were of possible medical emergencies. As riverrunner noted, it may never be known for sure.

Sunshine belle. You are dealing with your loss with such an amazing attitude. I so wish that your son would have found this group before his adventure. As you can tell we are a very outspoken group but the goal is to help everybody have a safe and wonderful experience in our small slice of heaven. Members here have made very sincere offers of help to you, they do the midwest proud.
Of course, being Minnesotans, many of our hearts dream of Alaska. For me New Mexico is number 2. New Mexico is a whole different ballgame than the north woods. I super appreciate your offer of helping us water delirious upper Midwesterners. On our last trip in New Mexico we did a hike in the organ mountains. Gorgeous and exotic. We had my daughters Apache Indian dog and my thirsty Labrador. The lab drank all our water, my wife became dehydrated. We ended up having to call for a rescue. We could hear the rescue trucks crawling up the hills for at least forty minutes before they met us at the trailhead. My daughter is a trained wilderness first responder. So my wife is there, in her bra and panties, laying in the pretend shade of some desert bush. The emergency guys show up, all of them looking like super handsome Hispanic movie extras. I was in histerics at this point. My wife just needed to get out of the elevation.
Spent the night in hatch, New Mexico. Minnesota has nothing like hatch.
The point of this long winded post is that we may have been experts in the north woods we had just enough knowledge to get into trouble in the desert Southwest.

Sunshinebelle.
Care to share where in New Mexico you live?
I got my first full time firefighting job in Socorro with the BLM (1997), spent alot of time in Magdelena and still have friends there.
Loved New Mexico, the wife and I plan on going back to vacation there sometime.

As others have said, I'm very sorry for your loss, Jordan sounds alot like myself.

So sorry for your loss sunshinebelle. Thanks for sharing some of his story. I hope you get the answers you seek if any and prayers be with your family.

Ohmygosh. Maybe he commuted suicide, maybe he had a stroke or something, maybe he didn’t know what he was doing.
Why are all freaking out, it’s a sad story. Leave it alone and respect him and his family. It’s old news anyways.

Chill out. It’s the risks you take. Doing ANYTHING. No, there is not a campsite there. We will never know his motive.

sunshinebelle - I am deeply sorry for your loss. I wish your son had been able to fall in love with our northwoods and experience them for much longer than he apparently did. It sounds like he had a love of all things outdoors and northern MN has a ton to offer.

Yes - the light is different than NM - shorter days in winter and longer ones in summer. An extreme difference between December and June. No doubt the bugs are different too, but your son escaped them due to the time of year. Your trip in late May could have encountered our infamous "fly hatch" where black flies hatch and pester the heck out of people near the woods. If not flies, then skeeters and ticks. There's always something!

Thank you for sharing what you know. You made your son's story personal for all of us. I will be hoping you get some more answers, and again, I am sorry for your loss.

Sunshinebell,
Thank you very much for enlightening us on what you have learned about your son's situation. You have such a wonderful grace in writing the updates. I know that when I hear of a loss of life in the Boundary Waters, or any place I have been, I take I deep interest in learning what happened. I'm sorry for your loss, and I also envy your son and his trips that he did before this one. I hope to hike the Pacific Crest Trail someday as well. He sounds like someone I wish I could have hiked with.


-Craig

jwartman59: "The lab drank all our water, my wife became dehydrated. We ended up having to call for a rescue. We could hear the rescue trucks crawling up the hills for at least forty minutes before they met us at the trailhead.”

I appreciate your long winded story. You have illustrated very well, what the visitors to the Mexico deal with. We are constantly educating about hydration and high-altitude. I think is a great parallel to the contrast of dry climate to your abundance of moisture. It is a force of nature that many do not understand. Likewise I think that my Jordan had much to learn about northern Minnesota. I think there were many things he didn’t understand such as the wolf. But he have a good knowledge of the bugs due to his time in Kentucky. Where the bugs are in great abundance and size there also. I think he also under estimated this particularly cold winter, but didn’t get the chance to experience it however.
Thank you for your story it’s pretty accurate. Possibly like you, we have people in the city who head up to the mountains for a day trip in their shorts and tank tops and freeze to death because they “didn’t think” it would get cold at dusk and drop 50+ degrees in the evening... and yes we scoff at some of them. Folks from low altitude just can’t anticipate 8-10,000 ft elevation. We live at 6500 ft. 30 miles east of Albuquerque and 50 miles south of Santa Fe. Jordan was aware of mountain temps dropping below freezing from a balmy 60+ degree day time temp and getting 4 ft snow storms at the end of May...it’s fairly common here. Then, two weeks later (mid June) it’s a scorching desert at 100 degrees and dry as a bone and folks are getting heat stroke because we’re so close to the sun. We have our weird stuff too.

SunshineBelle: "Let me share an ounce of my adventures: Next week we head out to dry camp on a ranch where we dress in the 1800’s and shoot 1800- early 1900 single action guns in a world wide competition. I usually stay two weeks out there, but this year will be short because I can’t take more time off work after our trip to MN. I’ve counted at least 23 who are coming from Australia to compete. We have so much fun but the camping is like being in a parking lot...except for the rattle snakes. The temps will be near 100 and make me pity the pioneer ladies who were still wearing corsets, huge gowns, and dealing with all of our dry dust..ugh. This photo is of my hubby and a couple of our other boys. If you do decide to visit NM, end of June is our event, first of Oct. is balloon fiesta, and there’s no hotels so please let us host you. Blessings
"

That is very cool! Except for the rattlers.