I posted this as a reply in another thread, but I think it may need its own thread...

I’m not sure any of that matters this year. There’s so many people flocking up north this summer to get away and a very large number have no idea that you need a permit to enter the BWCA. I was at the landing for Lake One for a day trip last weekend and there was a group unloading stuff there and they said they were going to put in at Wood Lake, but the parking lot was too full so they came to Lake One instead. I said, “wow, did you head into town to switch your permit first” (thinking, there’s no way a Lake One permit is available). They just stared at me, cluelessly. Yes, they had no idea they needed a permit. I wonder how many people are in the BWCA right now, with no permit.

Also last weekend, another guy from Wisconsin in a GIANT motor home pulled up beside me on the Fernberg Road as I was out for a run and stopped me to ask an “important” question. He says, “Where’s the best vista to light off some big fireworks in the area?” He wasn’t joking. Of course I told him that he was in a National Forest and that fireworks are illegal here, then I gently reminded him that there’s also a fire ban and very dry conditions currently. The guy stared at me for a few seconds and finally says, “so, no vistas then, it’s ok, we’ll find a place.” Then he takes off, blasting a puff of diesel exhaust in my face as he heads deeper into the woods that we all cherish.

I’ve been appalled at some of the stuff I’ve seen this year. Have you seen or heard anything that just appalled or baffled you in regards to the BWCA this year?

Tony

People are idiots!!!

This is amazing but unfortunately not surprising, I saw some crazy stuff this year on our portages. Sounds like you handled both situations the best you could and tried to educate them. Should have directed the RV to the parking lot of the Kawishiwi Ranger Station for a good vista! LOL

We had the rangers stop by our campsite for a permit and latrine check last month. They asked us several questions and I was glad to see them out there this year, sounded like they are running into a lot of first time paddlers this season. I won't soon forget the memory of running across a guy in red, white, & blue crocs sitting on his Yeti cooler in the middle of a 210 rod portage looking completely depleted and exhausted (maybe leave the Yeti at home next time!?)

A Confederacy of Dunces in the BWCA.

You guys are scaring me.

boonie: "You guys are scaring me. "

Don't worry, thankfully 9 of 10 people you meet in the BWCA are amazing people and very conscious of LNT principles.

aruthenb: "

boonie: "You guys are scaring me. "

Don't worry, thankfully 9 of 10 people you meet in the BWCA are amazing people and very conscious of LNT principles."

'

I believe that percentage is dropping.

I saw a couple lathered up in soap taking a bath in Gull Lake at the end of The Gunflint Trail a couple of weeks ago.
I also saw a birds nest of monofilament fishing line left at a Portage. They just didn’t consider others when they did that. The image of a turtle or gull being slowly garroted with fishing line should be enough to dissuade someone from leaving that stuff behind but I’m always picking that stuff up.

Zulu: "I saw a couple lathered up in soap taking a bath in Gull Lake at the end of The Gunflint Trail a couple of weeks ago.
I also saw a birds nest of monofilament fishing line left at a Portage. They just didn’t consider others when they did that. The image of a turtle or gull being slowly garroted with fishing line should be enough to dissuade someone from leaving that stuff behind but I’m always picking that stuff up."

Just curious...when you come across someone violating LNT principles, do you typically say something? And if so do you find it's helpful at all or do people just get defensive?

Bahahaha, of course the guy with the motor home looking to shoot off fireworks would be from Wisconsin.

Reading this makes me angry, sad and sick all at the same time.

SummerSkin: "

Zulu: "I saw a couple lathered up in soap taking a bath in Gull Lake at the end of The Gunflint Trail a couple of weeks ago.
I also saw a birds nest of monofilament fishing line left at a Portage. They just didn’t consider others when they did that. The image of a turtle or gull being slowly garroted with fishing line should be enough to dissuade someone from leaving that stuff behind but I’m always picking that stuff up."

Just curious...when you come across someone violating LNT principles, do you typically say something? And if so do you find it's helpful at all or do people just get defensive?"

I sometimes say something in the form of a question in a friendly way so they don’t feel bad or make them feel humiliated. Others times I weigh risk versus reward and may say nothing. An example would be at a Convenience Store in The Black Hills yesterday a guy without a face mask was coughing near the check out line and he thought it was funny. He was mean looking, didn’t have 26 teeth between him and the other two bikers and they were wearing “Bikers for Trump - Boots on the Ground” leather vests.
Some people do not consider others and will do whatever they want no matter what you say. I just try to ignore it and think and believe they have a different background and experiences than me.

WTIP interview from this morning with Trent Wickman, the public affairs officer for the U.S. Forest Service in northeastern Minnesota.

WTIP Interview

aruthenb: "WTIP interview from this morning with Trent Wickman, the public affairs officer for the U.S. Forest Service in northeastern Minnesota.


WTIP Interview "

Cliff notes?

treehorn: "

aruthenb: "WTIP interview from this morning with Trent Wickman, the public affairs officer for the U.S. Forest Service in northeastern Minnesota.



WTIP Interview "

Cliff notes?"

In short, the Forest Service is noticing frequent reports of damage done by visitors this year within and outside the BWCA. They discuss several events including trash and human waste being left at campsites, a campsite having trees taken out to improve the "view", and a few others. Not many answers other than awareness and enforcement if it is reported and/or witnessed. Sad to hear of the frequency of it this season. They also discuss the reasons and infer that some of it may be due to frustrations by those who couldn't go to their regular camping locations in May during Covid19 closures. (Yes, obviously not a legitimate reason to cause destruction).

Also last weekend, another guy from Wisconsin in a GIANT motor home pulled up beside me on the Fernberg Road as I was out for a run and stopped me to ask an “important” question. He says, “Where’s the best vista to light off some big fireworks in the area?” He wasn’t joking. Of course I told him that he was in a National Forest and that fireworks are illegal here, then I gently reminded him that there’s also a fire ban and very dry conditions currently. The guy stared at me for a few seconds and finally says, “so, no vistas then, it’s ok, we’ll find a place.” Then he takes off, blasting a puff of diesel exhaust in my face as he heads deeper into the woods that we all cherish.
Tony"

Tony - I would have felt obliged to pick up my phone and call the Sheriff on the fireworks guy, holy crap. I would have thought of my family's safety heading into the BWCA if that guy started a fire. Absolutely crazy.
On our first trip this June we found a giant turd and TP in a hollowed out, low cut stump in the nicest camp pad on our campsite on Polly. There was another on a side trail from camp, with TP everywhere, and lots of trash in the toilette. We found abandoned/lost camp chairs and a metal cup on a portage. I'm a little nervous of our EP 16 trip later this month...
I also love to watch YouTube videos of people's trips (including yours, I think?!), and I'm surprised how often people film themselves cutting green wood and trying to burn it.

scotttimm: "

Also last weekend, another guy from Wisconsin in a GIANT motor home pulled up beside me on the Fernberg Road as I was out for a run and stopped me to ask an “important” question. He says, “Where’s the best vista to light off some big fireworks in the area?” He wasn’t joking. Of course I told him that he was in a National Forest and that fireworks are illegal here, then I gently reminded him that there’s also a fire ban and very dry conditions currently. The guy stared at me for a few seconds and finally says, “so, no vistas then, it’s ok, we’ll find a place.” Then he takes off, blasting a puff of diesel exhaust in my face as he heads deeper into the woods that we all cherish.
Tony"

Tony - I would have felt obliged to pick up my phone and call the Sheriff on the fireworks guy, holy crap. I would have thought of my family's safety heading into the BWCA if that guy started a fire. Absolutely crazy.
On our first trip this June we found a giant turd and TP in a hollowed out, low cut stump in the nicest camp pad on our campsite on Polly. There was another on a side trail from camp, with TP everywhere, and lots of trash in the toilette. We found abandoned/lost camp chairs and a metal cup on a portage. I'm a little nervous of our EP 16 trip later this month...
I also love to watch YouTube videos of people's trips (including yours, I think?!), and I'm surprised how often people film themselves cutting green wood and trying to burn it."

Hey, thanks for watching my videos, I started it mostly as a video journal because I have a terrible memory and want to remember my BWCA trips 30 years from now, but now it’s become somewhat of a hobby. I should have mentioned it, but the guys going on Lake One ended up filling out a day use permit and hopefully didn’t overnight camp. They looked to be re-organizing and leaving some bags behind at their car so hopefully they played by the rules.

GopherAdventure: "

scotttimm: "

Also last weekend, another guy from Wisconsin in a GIANT motor home pulled up beside me on the Fernberg Road as I was out for a run and stopped me to ask an “important” question. He says, “Where’s the best vista to light off some big fireworks in the area?” He wasn’t joking. Of course I told him that he was in a National Forest and that fireworks are illegal here, then I gently reminded him that there’s also a fire ban and very dry conditions currently. The guy stared at me for a few seconds and finally says, “so, no vistas then, it’s ok, we’ll find a place.” Then he takes off, blasting a puff of diesel exhaust in my face as he heads deeper into the woods that we all cherish.
Tony"

Tony - I would have felt obliged to pick up my phone and call the Sheriff on the fireworks guy, holy crap. I would have thought of my family's safety heading into the BWCA if that guy started a fire. Absolutely crazy.
On our first trip this June we found a giant turd and TP in a hollowed out, low cut stump in the nicest camp pad on our campsite on Polly. There was another on a side trail from camp, with TP everywhere, and lots of trash in the toilette. We found abandoned/lost camp chairs and a metal cup on a portage. I'm a little nervous of our EP 16 trip later this month...
I also love to watch YouTube videos of people's trips (including yours, I think?!), and I'm surprised how often people film themselves cutting green wood and trying to burn it."

Hey, thanks for watching my videos, I started it mostly as a video journal because I have a terrible memory and want to remember my BWCA trips 30 years from now, but now it’s become somewhat of a hobby. I should have mentioned it, but the guys going on Lake One ended up filling out a day use permit and hopefully didn’t overnight camp. They looked to be re-organizing and leaving some bags behind at their car so hopefully they played by the rules. "

I'm kind of hoping that EP 16 is enough off the beaten track that I don't get people like the one's headed to Lake One.
You're videos are great. The other night I was watching the one of you and your son at LBF...love that site, brought back memories of our father/son trip last year.

Scottimm,
I'll also be in EP16 at the end of the month. At least you won't have to worry about my group :)

Soledad: "Scottimm,
I'll also be in EP16 at the end of the month. At least you won't have to worry about my group :)"

When do you enter? We hop in on Sunday the 26th, staying till the following weekend. Hope to make it to Tiger Bay same day, but bringing a slew of kids, so we may have to stay on Agnes first night...just heard alot of bear issues on Agnes right now. That may be enough to push the kiddos further than they would normally go. If you see a Wenonah 3, Spirit 2, and an Alumacraft - three adults and 6 kids - say hi!

We will be heading in on the 30th, 2 adults 5 kids- one black northwind, one white Merlin 2 and a stripper.

We will be shooting for Tiger Bay as well. I took my oldest up there 10 years ago when he was 4, and he is very excited to go back.

Look for us on your way out :)

Here is a Tiger Bay sunset pic to entice you to get up there on day one!

I love Tiger Bay - we made it there last summer on day one and stayed three nights - then worked our way to Iron, across Crooked, down to LBF, and out Mudro. 16 days, was an epic trip. This time we just plan to park it on Tiger for the week, show the kids the pictos, fish a lot, swim, etc. - Scott

Have a great trip, Scott; it'll be OK.

borealcanoe: "Bahahaha, of course the guy with the motor home looking to shoot off fireworks would be from Wisconsin. "

I'm from Wisconsin. Please explain your statement for me.

cowdoc: "

borealcanoe: "Bahahaha, of course the guy with the motor home looking to shoot off fireworks would be from Wisconsin. "

I'm from Wisconsin. Please explain your statement for me."

Me too!

cowdoc: "

borealcanoe: "Bahahaha, of course the guy with the motor home looking to shoot off fireworks would be from Wisconsin. "

I'm from Wisconsin. Please explain your statement for me."

It means Wisconsin sure likes their fire works.

I hate fireworks.....but, that was a well thought out reply

cowdoc: "I hate fireworks.....but, that was a well thought out reply"

I hate fireworks too.

Here’s an idea. Get seven 20 dollar bills. Dip 1 in solutions of calcium chloride, 1 in table salt, 1 in Borax, 1 in copper sulfate, 1 in copper chloride, 1 in potassium chloride, and the last in magnesium sulfate. Let dry. When in the mood for fireworks, light the bills on fire. If in the mood for sound effects eat lots of beans, onions, and kraut, and wash down with Milwaukee’s Best.

BigTim: "

cowdoc: "I hate fireworks.....but, that was a well thought out reply"

I hate fireworks too. "

As do I. Living in Indiana where the fireworks go off almost year round. The last three summers I have had to sleep in my basement because of the noise. Sometimes they are still shooting them off well past midnight.

Here is my problem. If you are going to go into someone else’s home. Treat it with respect. Tony was kind and handled the situation with the guy from Wisconsin very well. The guy from Wisconsin then rudely blew off Tony like he didn’t listen to a word Tony had said. It didn’t paint a very positive picture for Wisconsin. When you are traveling out of state, you become a representative of where your from. Always be aware of your actions.

inspector13: "
Here’s an idea. Get seven 20 dollar bills. Dip 1 in calcium chloride, 1 in table salt, 1 in Borax, 1 in copper sulfate, 1 in copper chloride, 1 in potassium chloride, and the last in magnesium sulfate. Let dry. When in the mood for fireworks, light the bills on fire. If in the mood for sound effects eat lots of beans, onions, and kraut, and wash down with Milwaukee’s Best.


"

:-) :-)

I got a kick out of this point of view. It is EXACTLY what I used to say in the early 1960's when my "friends" (?) were trying to get me to smoke cigarettes. I used the example of dollar bills, but of course a dollar was worth a lot more back in 1960. As a kid who earned her own spending money working after school, I was too cheap to spend it on something that went up in flames. So I never tried smoking. Have been glad for that in many ways, and when I was teaching I told my students that I was sure I had paid for a couple brand-new cars by NOT smoking! ;-)

Having said that, I love a really good professional fireworks presentation. But not just the occasional, or more often than occasional, backyard noise and light.

I want to make it clear, I wasn’t judging the RV guy by his Sconnie license plates. I meant no disrespect to our friends across the border. The reason I pointed it out was simply to further illustrate that the crowds that are flocking up north are coming from all over (not just the Twin Cities) and many of them are clearly doing none or very minimal research into the area before taking off for the woods. The whole encounter left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Tony

JackpineJones: "Here is my problem. If you are going to go into someone else’s home. Treat it with respect. Tony was kind and handled the situation with the guy from Wisconsin very well. The guy from Wisconsin then rudely blew off Tony like he didn’t listen to a word Tony had said. It didn’t paint a very positive picture for Wisconsin. When you are traveling out of state, you become a representative of where your from. Always be aware of your actions."

Here is MY problem. I thought Tony was spot on. He was probably nicer to the guy than I would have been. I have no beef with Tony. Kudos to him for making the right point, even if it was on deaf ears. However, I do take issue with lumping all Wisconsin outdoor people into the same class as this idiot in the travelling fireworks show, just because we share a license plate with him. He sir, is not our state representative.

I think this whole wisconsin /minnesota fued goes back to the lake # debate...

cowdoc: "

JackpineJones: "Here is my problem. If you are going to go into someone else’s home. Treat it with respect. Tony was kind and handled the situation with the guy from Wisconsin very well. The guy from Wisconsin then rudely blew off Tony like he didn’t listen to a word Tony had said. It didn’t paint a very positive picture for Wisconsin. When you are traveling out of state, you become a representative of where your from. Always be aware of your actions."

Here is MY problem. I thought Tony was spot on. He was probably nicer to the guy than I would have been. I have no beef with Tony. Kudos to him for making the right point, even if it was on deaf ears. However, I do take issue with lumping all Wisconsin outdoor people into the same class as this idiot in the travelling fireworks show, just because we share a license plate with him. He sir, is not our state representative. "

I stand corrected. My Apologies. Well put!

borealcanoe: "I think this whole wisconsin /minnesota fued goes back to the lake # debate... "

There wasn't a feud till you made one 25 posts back. I have great friends and family in the state of Minnesota. I can't think of 2 other states that are more similar and share a border and common interests.

cowdoc: "

borealcanoe: "I think this whole wisconsin /minnesota fued goes back to the lake # debate... "

There wasn't a feud till you made one 25 posts back. I have great friends and family in the state of Minnesota. I can't think of 2 other states that are more similar and share a border and common interests."

The wisconsin/Minnesota feud has been going on a lot longer than 25 posts ago, I can guarantee that.

I don’t think sports team rivalries render to feuds.

This Minnesota guy married a Wisconsin lady, we love both states in this household!

aruthenb: "


This Minnesota guy married a Wisconsin lady, we love both states in this household!"

That is so cute!

aruthenb: "


This Minnesota guy married a Wisconsin lady, we love both states in this household!"

I'd agree with this, but in the reverse. I was born in Appleton, WI and grew up in rural MN while my wife is from Edina, MN. We joke about me being a 'sconnie hillbilly and I call her a cake eater. If the relationship between our two great states is anything more than fun and playful banter, it's very disappointing to hear. We are VERY similar and share so many great things with each other. Please don't tell me it's legitimately turned into a serious feud.

My family has lived on both sides of the St Croix for over 160 years. Currently, two out of five siblings live east of that river. I wonder if all the Wisconsin cabin owners from Minnesota and visa versa know about this. It is certainly news to my siblings and me.

I’ve lived on the border between Wisconsin and Minnesota for 64 years. I worked at a factory on the border that employed good people from both sides. 63% of the workforce crossed the river daily to work and were lovingly referred to as Wisconsin Wetbacks.
My Dad was from Stillwater MN and my Mom was from across the river In Hudson Wisconsin. Both great states because among other things you can’t marry your first cousin in either.

The new St. Croix River Loop Trail for bikers and pedestrians just opened a few weeks ago. It’s a 5 mile loop that exists in both states. It crosses the Historic Lift Bridge and the new Trillion dollar extradosed Bridge. Accessible from Stillwater MN or Houlton WI.

Hey Pat. A couple of my mom’s cousins crossed the river to work for the same place, and one of my sisters married into the family that owned Dibbo’s!

That’s great! I miss Dibbos. Vic was a good guy. He booked some really good bands.

I miss Dibbo’s too. It was The Depot/Uncle Sam's of the east. Some of the money from the sale went into a new house by Troy Burne. Being from a later generation, it was one of Vic’s daughter’s families she married into. The ones that actively managed the bar at the end. It must have still been Vic managing when Banana Nights were happening. Fun times.