BWCA Gas prices... Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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05/20/2022 07:18PM  
Is anyone reconsidering a trip based on gas expense? It is over $5/gallon here now with no stop in sight. It has made me seriously reconsidering going up as the cost of getting there would be more than the cost of the trip itself. I am hoping that things level off a little before my scheduled trip as this was the year I was taking my son in for his first time. We will see!
 
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OCDave
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05/20/2022 07:29PM  
Thankfully, global events are threatening only our pocketbook, comfort and convenience. I can't imagine if what has happened to Mariupol happen to Minneapolis. With one son in the military and a second graduating high school, I pray economic sanctions are enough.

I'd not let the high cost of gasoline keep me from one trip, especially if the BWCA were at the end. I have my own canoe and gear so, a BWCA trip is quite inexpensive once I push off at the entry point. Taking a son on a first BWCA is also worth the premium you're paying for fuel this summer.

I do find I am more conservative regarding my day to day gasoline consumption. I drive less, bike more and use our smallest mot economical vehicle more. Conserving at home makes it easier to splurge for a long trip.

Good Luck
 
woodsandwater
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05/20/2022 07:45PM  
We still plan on going third week in June and in July but I fear they will continue to climb.
 
yogi59weedr
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05/20/2022 08:20PM  
$3.93 at Cosco in iowa yesterday
Saves me about .70 a gallon by driving right across the river.
Now if I can plot out my route by Cosco stores on the way up.
 
straighthairedcurly
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05/20/2022 08:21PM  
Driving an EV.
 
cyclones30
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05/20/2022 09:16PM  
I'm not sure if I'll even feel good enough to make a trip.

That said....there's no way gas prices are influencing if I went or not. It's one trip to my favorite place....even in my truck that gets 20 mpg that's what.....comparing $5 gas to $3 gas that's an extra $40 in my 7 hour drive one way. There are a TON of ways to make up the $40 the rest of the year. Or just accept that it's vacation and still way cheaper than most other options
 
BonzSF
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05/20/2022 11:37PM  
It’s around $6.50 a gallon here in sunny California. Not stopping me from driving cause that’s what we do.
my airline ticket is about 30% more than last year and still worth it. I just extend my stay to offset the pain. We’ll be out for 10 days in August. And this time I’m gonna catch some fish!
 
05/21/2022 12:27AM  
It’s all perspective and location I guess.

I live 500 miles away round trip. It will cost me $60 more in gas than it would of a year ago. I am not happy paying more…but that’s not going to stop me from doing a trip. I don’t think double that would stop me. There are so ,my ways to save money…I’ll make it up somewhere.

T
 
Frenchy
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05/21/2022 06:49AM  
I agree with the thought that Life is too short to give up what you love. Over your lifetime, how many times will you make the trip to BWCAW? I began paddling the wilderness area in 1964 with my father. I hope to have a few more trips left. Giving up a trip may be giving up your last trip, who knows for sure? We have lost some good friends on this site that took that last portage way too early. I guess what I’m saying is make the trip if at all possible. That way you will never regret the missed opportunity. If you are in the Crooked Lake area 6/7 - 6/14, give a wave. Have a wonderful paddling season all.
 
CatchMe
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05/21/2022 08:57AM  
A trip with your young son is a memory you will cherish the rest of your life. And it will be a memory that he will hold forever. Neither of you will care what you paid for gas when you look back.
 
Lawnchair107
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05/21/2022 10:42AM  
CatchMe: "A trip with your young son is a memory you will cherish the rest of your life. And it will be a memory that he will hold forever. Neither of you will care what you paid for gas when you look back."
Well said.
 
4keys
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05/21/2022 12:04PM  
You need to go while you can. You don’t know what will happen in the future, and you could end up regretting not going and making a great memory with your son.

We just returned from a 10 day trip to Idaho (from Wi) to visit our son and his girlfriend. 3980 miles total, about 28 hours one way. Yes, we looked at the gas prices, but it didn’t really matter because we were going regardless. We had quite an adventure, saw some bear and bighorn ram pretty close up, and had a great time with the kids. Great memories and a hug that has to keep me until October when they visit.
 
cyclones30
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05/21/2022 12:49PM  
4keys: "You need to go while you can. You don’t know what will happen in the future, and you could end up regretting not going and making a great memory with your son. "
This part hits me hard now. I've been dealing with long haul Covid for over two years and not been able to make it up to the BW since then. If you have a chance to go do something you love or really want to do, go. You never know when the next chance will come.
 
05/21/2022 01:11PM  
cyclones30: "I've been dealing with long haul Covid for over two years and not been able to make it up to the BW since then. If you have a chance to go do something you love or really want to do, go. You never know when the next chance will come "
Take care
 
05/21/2022 01:12PM  
Just go. Up to now, I see no slowdown in driving with so many people coming thru Brainerd pulling mobile homes -trailers. They were bought in record numbers and that must be a gas guzzler pulling them.
 
05/21/2022 03:55PM  
timatkn: "It’s all perspective and location I guess.


I live 500 miles away round trip. It will cost me $60 more in gas than it would of a year ago. I am not happy paying more…but that’s not going to stop me from doing a trip. I don’t think double that would stop me. There are so ,my ways to save money…I’ll make it up somewhere.


T"


Pretty sure that if gas hits $57/gallon you will still be willing and chomping at the bit to fill your tank to get that beautiful new ride of yours out and about!! Totally jealous!!
 
Barca
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05/21/2022 05:48PM  
Frenchy: "I agree with the thought that Life is too short to give up what you love. Over your lifetime, how many times will you make the trip to BWCAW? I began paddling the wilderness area in 1964 with my father. I hope to have a few more trips left. Giving up a trip may be giving up your last trip, who knows for sure? We have lost some good friends on this site that took that last portage way too early. I guess what I’m saying is make the trip if at all possible. That way you will never regret the missed opportunity. If you are in the Crooked Lake area 6/7 - 6/14, give a wave. Have a wonderful paddling season all."


I simply love these kinds of comments. My parents started on the Kawishiwi River/Lake One in '71. This year I'll be going with my dad to WCPP for the first time. Money is just a thing, memories are forever.
 
05/21/2022 08:55PM  
Anyway…moving on…I’m still going if I can no matter the gas price :)


T
 
05/22/2022 06:45AM  
In my Tundra it takes me roughly 40 gallons to get to the BW from NE Illinois. So roughly $50 more each way compared what it was a while back. $100 more than before is'nt going to stop me. Look at all the other things we use that are costing way more.
 
05/22/2022 07:07AM  
At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $ 1.69 a gallon 2 weeks before the election. Now it's $ 5.15 a gallon. Something went wrong there...
 
Maiingan
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05/22/2022 07:10AM  
straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."
What kind of ev? What is the range?
 
Maiingan
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05/22/2022 07:54AM  
missmolly: "scat: "At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $ 1.69 a gallon 2 weeks before the election. Now it's $ 5.15 a gallon. Something went wrong there..."


Gas consumption dropped during pandemic. With less demand, oil companies cut production. Then consumption increased as the pandemic waned. Increased demand increased prices and then Russia invaded Ukraine. "


Thats is only part of it. Refinery capacity. If we keep growing our population and exporting refined fuel we WILL run out of gas. Unless we build more refineries. Good luck with that. Federal lease have been limited by the new administration. The new administration add some new leases but the are not desirable ? ie profitable.

Oil companies are in it for the money and they can get away with it right now. They are owned and by run by stock holders. Most politician own these stocks and are also influenced by oil lobbyist. If you own mutual funds or a 401k you probably own energy stock. Yes there is much more to the high prices.

This will affect the less privileged and poor the most, as you can see here no one is cancel their trip. Yet mothers have to drive around to find food for their babies.

This is going to get bad. We will have food shortages soon and our government is in another world.

In Minnesota our gas prices were about $2.25, yes that was before we were told about covid.
 
05/22/2022 09:27AM  
missmolly: "scat: "At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $ 1.69 a gallon 2 weeks before the election. Now it's $ 5.15 a gallon. Something went wrong there..."


Gas consumption dropped during pandemic. With less demand, oil companies cut production. Then consumption increased as the pandemic waned. Increased demand increased prices and then Russia invaded Ukraine.

This is also in play: "The Biden administration has called on producers to pump more, but oil companies are reluctant to drill after pledging capital discipline to shareholders, and executives say that even if they wanted to pump more they simply can’t. They’re facing the same issues that are playing out across the economy, including labor shortages and rising prices for parts and raw materials, such as sand, which is key to fracking production.""


You look at the 2020 end of the last president's term we had fewer active oil rigs than in decades.
Also, the head of the Oil industry two months ago said were pumping at only 60% capacity. Yes, it is profit and higher exports of our oil.
 
Maiingan
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05/22/2022 09:35AM  
Good point Pine tree. Fewer active wells yet $1.69 gas. Things change. You are also right on us exporting. To blame this on civil war and countries ( 2 of the most corrupt countries in the world) fighting over borders on the other side of the planet is a cop out. Prices were skyrocketing last spring. We can produce more oil than any other country in the world.
 
05/22/2022 11:04AM  
scat: "At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $ 1.69 a gallon 2 weeks before the election. Now it's $ 5.15 a gallon. Something went wrong there..."
One big factor was demand for gas started to rapidly go up, thus prices started going up. It's the old supply and demand thing
 
05/22/2022 12:27PM  
Yes, gas was cheaper in 2020, and that is because no one was buying it! Not that hard to figure that one out.
 
DRob1992
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05/22/2022 01:25PM  
I don't have a trip planned any time soon. Been working 80+ hours a week and I actually like the work. Anyways, I gotta say hell no; don't let gas prices stop you from visiting your favorite destinations - wherever that may be. The balance, peace, perspective, and pleasure that come from being in that moment, in that one spot where you look around and realize there are heaven(s) on Earth is priceless.
 
Savage Voyageur
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05/22/2022 01:51PM  
I just filled my tank with diesel fuel at $5.49 a gallon, $170 dollars! This insanity needs to end.
 
05/22/2022 02:28PM  
When I look at how much more I could spend on a vacation the gas prices aren't as much of a concern. People seem to think nothing of $1000+ apiece for a 4 day cruise. At least when you are in the wilderness you aren't paying for a hotel room or for meals out. If you take meals you put together and dehydrate from home you can save money you would spend on prepackaged dehydrated meals to offset some of that cost. There's lots of ways to make it work. We are driving from Houston, but we have a Rav4 Prime now. Hopefully we can find some places to charge it relatively quickly, but even so it gets pretty awesome gas mileage with regenerative charging. We're loving how seldom we have to buy gas (sorry I can't help feeling a little smug right now, it's too bad they are still so hard to get). Anyway, the time to relax and recharge away from our hectic lifestyles and reconnect with each other and nature makes it worth the extra money.
 
missmolly
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05/22/2022 05:04PM  
 
05/22/2022 07:17PM  
All about adapting and prioritizing... kind of a humorous thing I’m reminded of was my neighbor gal and the women in the area who do this bible study thing got together and gave me forty envelopes, one for each of the forty days of that trip and all from different ladies. My favorite was from a lady (who just passed away at 98)... with her note was $20 she thought I might need for gas. Haha! I thought... Last I checked, my canoe doesn’t use much gas. Haha!
But in all seriousness, Frenchy’s comment is so true along with some others. Every trip you make could be your last opportunity... especially with someone close. I’m greatful for every trip and everyone I was able to paddle with. The pain I’m in prevents me from tripping the way I enjoyed so many times. Pictures and memories are fine... but I just keep moving forward and get out in other ways. Currently I’m supporting housty9 as he hikes the SHT. I’m staying in my camper I built complete with solar, fridge, heat... all the glamping luxuries. Haha! Fuel? Ya just do your best. We have learned to conserve, adapt and prioritize. We’re pretty resourceful... my guess is it’ll have to get much worse to keep most away from canoe country.
 
05/22/2022 08:10PM  
Yes while in the BWCA, look at all the gas you save by not driving all over otherwise, Done right with a few fish meals your saving money all around.

Yes, this year will be a bumper crop of mosquitoes and black flies. An extra can of Deet will be needed, along with a head net
 
missmolly
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05/23/2022 07:08AM  
nctry: "All about adapting and prioritizing... kind of a humorous thing I’m reminded of was my neighbor gal and the women in the area who do this bible study thing got together and gave me forty envelopes, one for each of the forty days of that trip and all from different ladies. My favorite was from a lady (who just passed away at 98)... with her note was $20 she thought I might need for gas. Haha! I thought... Last I checked, my canoe doesn’t use much gas. Haha!
But in all seriousness, Frenchy’s comment is so true along with some others. Every trip you make could be your last opportunity... especially with someone close. I’m greatful for every trip and everyone I was able to paddle with. The pain I’m in prevents me from tripping the way I enjoyed so many times. Pictures and memories are fine... but I just keep moving forward and get out in other ways. Currently I’m supporting housty9 as he hikes the SHT. I’m staying in my camper I built complete with solar, fridge, heat... all the glamping luxuries. Haha! Fuel? Ya just do your best. We have learned to conserve, adapt and prioritize. We’re pretty resourceful... my guess is it’ll have to get much worse to keep most away from canoe country. "


Ben, you are the Grand Poobah of Adaptation. I love that you're still under the trees and beside the water, sleeping in your comfy camper.
 
GopherAdventure
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05/23/2022 07:35AM  
Maiingan: "straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."
What kind of ev? What is the range?"


+1
 
GopherAdventure
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05/23/2022 07:39AM  
straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."

I ordered a new EV back in January, but I probably won’t see it until the fall at the earliest. I’m having a hard time waiting as my truck gets pretty bad mileage. How do you like the EV lifestyle? Do you take it on longer trips (cross country)? I saw that Ely and Virginia have some charging stations, I’m assuming the North Shore has some as well. I’m very excited to join the club of EV owners.

Tony
 
missmolly
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05/23/2022 08:49AM  
GopherAdventure: "straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."


I ordered a new EV back in January, but I probably won’t see it until the fall at the earliest. I’m having a hard time waiting as my truck gets pretty bad mileage. How do you like the EV lifestyle? Do you take it on longer trips (cross country)? I saw that Ely and Virginia have some charging stations, I’m assuming the North Shore has some as well. I’m very excited to join the club of EV owners.


Tony"


What make and model of EV, Tony?

I look forward to the day when all trucks are EVs. It's popular where I live to replace the exhausts of trucks with aftermarket exhausts that make the truck as loud as possible.

#theworlddoesn'tneedtobenoiser
 
Minnesotian
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05/23/2022 09:08AM  
GopherAdventure: "straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."


I ordered a new EV back in January, but I probably won’t see it until the fall at the earliest. I’m having a hard time waiting as my truck gets pretty bad mileage. How do you like the EV lifestyle? Do you take it on longer trips (cross country)? I saw that Ely and Virginia have some charging stations, I’m assuming the North Shore has some as well. I’m very excited to join the club of EV owners.


Tony"


Not an EV, but I ordered a Hybrid Ford Maverick back in October. No idea when I might get it, but I am hoping for late summer. It looks to be a perfect little truck for my camping trips. Excellent gas mileage of course.
 
05/23/2022 09:35AM  
Like most things, the EV's will improve greatly over the decade. Hope for a big battery breakthrough.
 
PeaceFrog
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05/23/2022 10:57AM  
Blatz: " In my Tundra it takes me roughly 40 gallons to get to the BW from NE Illinois. So roughly $50 more each way compared what it was a while back. $100 more than before is'nt going to stop me. Look at all the other things we use that are costing way more."
Yep! Tundra from Central Ohio. Not loving the prices at all, but not stopping us. Ever. Maybe I should rent my son’s hybrid??? The price of gas is well worth the memories and going to BW.

 
05/23/2022 01:05PM  
Pinetree: "Like most things, the EV's will improve greatly over the decade. Hope for a big battery breakthrough. "

Exactly. Solid State Batteries.
 
05/23/2022 01:25PM  
Worldwide consumption of liquid gas oil is increasing on average by close to 4 million barrels a day.
We can keep drilling worldwide but the easy oil to get is less and less. Something will have to give someday in the future.
I watch the traffic in Brainerd and it has increased manyfold in just a decade. I am amazed gas stations can keep up. Oil is not renewable except for maybe a million-year time frame. The glass is getting to half full.
 
05/23/2022 02:01PM  
scat: "At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $ 1.69 a gallon 2 weeks before the election. Now it's $ 5.15 a gallon. Something went wrong there..."

Yup. Increased demand. Simple economics.
 
05/24/2022 12:20PM  
Simple is as simple does apparently. I am basically apolitical by choice. I would consider myself a complete fool to blindly back any political party. Fact is there are 2 sides to the equation - demand and SUPPLY. Demand certainly wasn't any less in 2018 when the economy finally rebounded and was humming along after 10 years of misery and gas was at $2.30 a gallon. As someone who has been selling lumber, a commidity, for 35 years I am acutely aware and affected by the laws of supply and demand. I'll sell you 3 sheets of 1/2" CDX Fir plywood right now for $250, + delivery, if you want to pay it. It was $45 for 3 sheets for decades. I have been thru good times and bad times plenty of times, and this is a real bad time. Cutting off SUPPLY with no plan to replace it is affecting everyone negatively. And that's just one of the several major problems/crises that have arisen in the last 18 months that could have been avoided. I don't need to list them, it's on the news everyday no matter how much you try to avoid listening. Over and out.

Cheers, scat
 
Maiingan
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05/24/2022 02:01PM  
scat: "Simple is as simple does apparently. I am basically apolitical by choice. I would consider myself a complete fool to blindly back any political party. Fact is there are 2 sides to the equation - demand and SUPPLY. Demand certainly wasn't any less in 2018 when the economy finally rebounded and was humming along after 10 years of misery and gas was at $2.30 a gallon. As someone who has been selling lumber, a commidity, for 35 years I am acutely aware and affected by the laws of supply and demand. I'll sell you 3 sheets of 1/2" CDX Fir plywood right now for $250, + delivery, if you want to pay it. It was $45 for 3 sheets for decades. I have been thru good times and bad times plenty of times, and this is a real bad time. Cutting off SUPPLY with no plan to replace it is affecting everyone negatively. And that's just one of the several major problems/crises that have arisen in the last 18 months that could have been avoided. I don't need to list them, it's on the news everyday no matter how much you try to avoid listening. Over and out.


Cheers, scat "

+1
2 If you want to count Elon Musk...sounds like smart company.
 
Maiingan
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05/24/2022 02:04PM  
Hard to understand how one could be pro EV and anti-mining.
Yes I know this board is full nimby. You know double standards anywhere but where I vacation. Maybe we need to see the damage we do by traveling needlessly for fun.
 
05/24/2022 02:27PM  
Maiingan: "Hard to understand how one could be pro EV and anti-mining.
Yes I know this board is full nimby. You know double standards anywhere but where I vacation. Maybe we need to see the damage we do by traveling needlessly for fun."


It's not double standards at all. It is where and when you mine and the consequences of each site.
 
05/24/2022 02:29PM  
arctic: "scat: "At the Murphys gas station by my house regular was $1.69 per gallon two weeks before the election. Now it's $5.15 per gallon. Something went wrong there."
Yup. Increased demand. Simple economics."

Many refineries shut down or scaled back in 2020 and many still slowly ramping up because why increase quantity while your profit margin goes up 10-fold because people are buying it with no urge to cut back consumption.
 
flopnfolds
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05/24/2022 02:34PM  
GopherAdventure: "straighthairedcurly: "Driving an EV."


I ordered a new EV back in January, but I probably won’t see it until the fall at the earliest. I’m having a hard time waiting as my truck gets pretty bad mileage. How do you like the EV lifestyle? Do you take it on longer trips (cross country)? I saw that Ely and Virginia have some charging stations, I’m assuming the North Shore has some as well. I’m very excited to join the club of EV owners.


Tony"


We have the Chevy Bolt electric vehicle. Its our second vehicle, but we use it WAY more around town than our other vehicle. Its awesome, just crazy torque. The biggest reason that we don't use it on road trips is its old battery technology, even with the battery upgrade, and it is a slow charger even with DCFC. We have a cabin outside Tower, MN and live in Minneapolis. There is a fast charger on I35 in Moose Lake, and then one in Virginia. But the Virginia one doesn't seem to be operable on a consistent basis (possibly this will change as they recently changed companies). The alternative is using a Level 2 charger with two kids in the back and that seems like a poor way to spend time. Ely and Giants Ridge both have level 2 chargers but no DCFC. With no rush in my current car or a better EV I wouldn't hesitate to do road trips.

Plugshare is a great tool to use to help plan trips.

Tesla has a few more superchargers in the area, but until Tesla opens those up fast charging from other mfgs you can only slow charge.
 
05/24/2022 02:34PM  
Very interesting where this thread has gone. It's seemed to start some pretty decent conversation though.
 
Maiingan
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05/24/2022 03:35PM  
Pinetree: "Maiingan: "Hard to understand how one could be pro EV and anti-mining.

Yes I know this board is full nimby. You know double standards anywhere but where I vacation. Maybe we need to see the damage we do by traveling needlessly for fun."

It's not double standards at all. It is where and when you mine and the consequences of each site. "

Too bad we can't pick where the minerals are. Nickel in pretty much exclusive to Minnesota in the U.S.. Nickel went up 200% in one day recently. Can't get it from Russia anymore, forget China.

Where would you mine nickel in this country?
 
05/24/2022 04:11PM  
Maiingan: "Pinetree: "Maiingan: "Hard to understand how one could be pro EV and anti-mining.
Yes I know this board is full nimby. You know double standards anywhere but where I vacation. Maybe we need to see the damage we do by traveling needlessly for fun."

It's not double standards at all. It is where and when you mine and the consequences of each site. "

To bad we can't pick where the minerals are. Nickel in pretty much exclusive to Minnesota in the U.S.. Nickel went up 200% in one day recently. Can't get it from Russia anymore, forget China.

Where would you mine nickel in this country?"


Not sure that Minnesota is the only place in the country. There seem to be large potential deposits in Alaska and California based on the linked USGS report. Sounds like most of the Nickel used in the U.S is coming from Canada. I could see potential in Alaska because of limited populations centers, but that also limits access, infrastructure, etc. California is no-go because they decided to have a hugely populous state in a desert. WAY too densely populated in most areas. The only operating US nickel mine is currently in Michigan...

Not trying to be argumentative, just providing more info.



Link to USGS study
 
05/24/2022 05:22PM  
The biggest impact would be EV Rv's. If they only get 8 miles per gallon it must take a huge amount to fill one up. If they could get 250 - 300 miles of range, people could travel from campground to campground and recharge before moving on.
 
05/24/2022 05:31PM  
Maiingan: "Pinetree: "Maiingan: "Hard to understand how one could be pro EV and anti-mining.
Yes I know this board is full nimby. You know double standards anywhere but where I vacation. Maybe we need to see the damage we do by traveling needlessly for fun."

It's not double standards at all. It is where and when you mine and the consequences of each site. "

Where would you mine nickel in this country?"

I am not opposed to the nickel mining by McGregor MN. or the site by Emily Mn. Leery of it but would go along with mining there.

Seen many copper sites and leaching 50 years plus in Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Even now they can't stop the leaching from the mines 50 years later.

Also, I remember the Homestake gold mine in the Black Hills. In about 1970 South Dakota put a wire fish trap into the stream affected by the mine. They were assessing the fish life. The only problem was they put the trap into the water and the stream was still so acid it discovered the metal fish trap.

Too many people just want to consume and don't care about the consequenc.es
 
05/24/2022 06:01PM  
 
izzy052
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05/24/2022 06:28PM  
I'm leaving on Tuesday ........... and I'm not going to discuss politics on this forum.
 
Chicagored
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05/26/2022 08:38AM  
Just wanted to point out that gas prices hit an average of $4.11/gal. in July, 2008. Didn't stop me then, and won't stop me from making 2 trips now. The gas prices are a relatively small incremental increase to what is a relatively inexpensive vacation.

First trip will be with a July 10 permit for Snowbank, heading for Thomas or maybe Frasier. I will be in my Hyundai Palisade, which averages about 27mpg.

The second trip is what had (pre covid) become an annual event with the wife, and adds a few miles to the regular trip. Towing the winnebago micro minni (12 mpg when towing with the Palisade) to the Fall Lake Campground at the end of August for 11 days of fishing, then going to Grand Marias for 4 days for the Radio Waves Music Festival. If you have never been to Radio Waves, its a real hoot and happens the first weekend after labor day every year. Three days of assorted types of music from local bands that come, usually, anywhere from Duluth to the Canadian border along route 61. The bands play in an outdoor space located next to the campground in Grand Marais. The music festival has been cancelled for a few years but is back. Some of the music is usually good, some not so good, but all played with great energy. And, of course, there is the joy of starting every day at the World's Best Donut shop!
 
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