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10/11/2022 04:27PM  
New Trip Report posted by bumabu

Trip Name: Bbbbbrrrrrrrrrule.

Entry Point: 41

Click Here to View Trip Report
 
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straighthairedcurly
distinguished member(1980)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/11/2022 07:08PM  
Beautiful photos and enjoyable trip report. Looked like you stayed well fed and cozy warm.
cyclones30
distinguished member(4155)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
10/11/2022 08:06PM  
Nice! Good way to get a trip in during the shoulder seasons and not get real far from the parking area.
10/11/2022 08:11PM  
Sounds like a great family trip and nice photos also.
GregSC
member (31)member
  
10/12/2022 05:52AM  
Great trip.
MidwestMan
distinguished member (261)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/12/2022 06:30AM  
Great report! Thanks for sharing!
SaganagaJoe
distinguished member(2116)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/12/2022 08:35AM  
My son is almost 4 months old. I can't wait to bring him up north. Thanks for sharing!
Dolpho
member (26)member
  
10/12/2022 08:58AM  
Looks like a great bonding experience for your family.

I don't normally read trip reports but since I have spent time on Brule in October I read your report.

The following statement really stood out while reading your report:

"We were also able to clear out another nice shore fishing spot on the island which gives good access to deep water and structure so future wind-bound parties can do some more shore fishing as well"

I then happened to view your profile which has the following statement for hobbies:

"Home improvement and construction which lead me to campsite engineering and improving while in BW"

I only have the one sentence to describe your actions at the Brule campsite. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what your actions were at the campsite regarding "clear out".

However I would like to kindly remind you that engineering and improving campsites in the BWCAW is a clear violation of the LNT principle. Creating a better shore fishing spot at an Island campsite is a violation of LNT. Those actions are to be performed only by the Forest Service.



10/12/2022 09:30AM  
Dolpho: "Looks like a great bonding experience for your family.


I don't normally read trip reports but since I have spent time on Brule in October I read your report.


The following statement really stood out while reading your report:


"We were also able to clear out another nice shore fishing spot on the island which gives good access to deep water and structure so future wind-bound parties can do some more shore fishing as well"


I then happened to view your profile which has the following statement for hobbies:


"Home improvement and construction which lead me to campsite engineering and improving while in BW"


I only have the one sentence to describe your actions at the Brule campsite. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what your actions were at the campsite regarding "clear out".


However I would like to kindly remind you that engineering and improving campsites in the BWCAW is a clear violation of the LNT principle. Creating a better shore fishing spot at an Island campsite is a violation of LNT. Those actions are to be performed only by the Forest Service.




"

Thanks for the feedback; I am aware of the rules. LNT is a very subjective buzzword and it means something different to everyone. I forgot to mention that I lost a few lead jigs in the rocks while fishing, and that I improved the shallow canoe landing at the campsite too.

I am at peace with any traces I leave, and we all have to admit that we leave them on every trip. I seriously doubt that clearing some deadfall from a shoreline would be frowned upon by the Forest Service, and if it bothers them, that would be indicative of what is wrong with our government these days. Improving campsite benches with dead and down wood or boulders is also acceptable IMO.

We, as the BWCA community, cannot wait for the underfunded Forest Service to do all the work, we have to take some ownership of the area as well. The BWCA is a treasure to be respected and enjoyed, and there is no harm in leaving a campsite better than you found it, so long as you are not killing anything significant in the process. A little bit of common sense goes a long way these days.
afromaniac
senior member (97)senior membersenior member
  
10/12/2022 12:41PM  
I don't understand why this has to become "the people vs the government conflict" when clearly the LNT ideal is to literally not leave a trace of ones' self. Not everything needs to be reduced to a question of your god-given freedom versus evil bureaucracy.
10/12/2022 03:49PM  
afromaniac: "I don't understand why this has to become "the people vs the government conflict" when clearly the LNT ideal is to literally not leave a trace of ones' self. Not everything needs to be reduced to a question of your god-given freedom versus evil bureaucracy. "


I was advocating that we help the government, lol. If you really are a LNT purist to the core, then it would be better not to go. It's okay to leave a trace, just don't leave an impact.
10/12/2022 06:22PM  
The army buddy who introduced me to the BWCA was hard core LNT. I was of the leave it better than I found it thinking. He would not gather firewood from the shoreline or near camp. We could not leave no trace and have a campfire, so I learned to paddle a little way and have found really good firewood about 50 feet from shore many times. You will see no trace unless you bushwhack some. Now I limit the leave it better to a small wood supply for the next visitor...and recently packing out other's trash.
gkimball
distinguished member(653)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/12/2022 07:59PM  
bumabu: "
Dolpho: "Looks like a great bonding experience for your family.



I don't normally read trip reports but since I have spent time on Brule in October I read your report.



The following statement really stood out while reading your report:



"We were also able to clear out another nice shore fishing spot on the island which gives good access to deep water and structure so future wind-bound parties can do some more shore fishing as well"



I then happened to view your profile which has the following statement for hobbies:



"Home improvement and construction which lead me to campsite engineering and improving while in BW"



I only have the one sentence to describe your actions at the Brule campsite. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what your actions were at the campsite regarding "clear out".



However I would like to kindly remind you that engineering and improving campsites in the BWCAW is a clear violation of the LNT principle. Creating a better shore fishing spot at an Island campsite is a violation of LNT. Those actions are to be performed only by the Forest Service.





"

Thanks for the feedback; I am aware of the rules. LNT is a very subjective buzzword and it means something different to everyone. I forgot to mention that I lost a few lead jigs in the rocks while fishing, and that I improved the shallow canoe landing at the campsite too.


I am at peace with any traces I leave, and we all have to admit that we leave them on every trip. I seriously doubt that clearing some deadfall from a shoreline would be frowned upon by the Forest Service, and if it bothers them, that would be indicative of what is wrong with our government these days. Improving campsite benches with dead and down wood or boulders is also acceptable IMO.


We, as the BWCA community, cannot wait for the underfunded Forest Service to do all the work, we have to take some ownership of the area as well. The BWCA is a treasure to be respected and enjoyed, and there is no harm in leaving a campsite better than you found it, so long as you are not killing anything significant in the process. A little bit of common sense goes a long way these days. "


As one who worked for decades dealing with the impacts created by people in parks, your rationalizations help me understand the mindset of those who simply would not respect the place for what it is and accept limitations on their own behavior.

No matter how much we or others tried to get them to understand that impacts like those you made are cumulative and lead to eventual degradation of the resource, their actions were ones that "had no effect," "made the place better," or "it's something I like therefore it's OK."

Leave No Trace exactly that. Not "Leave Only the Traces I Think are OK."
10/13/2022 08:09AM  
Hey Bud... nice trip. You drove right past me having surgery Wednesday in Duluth. Now one might ask when it’s your daughters turn. Of course that’ll be recorded as you tube video. Haha.
As far as leaving no trace... at least some people clean up some of the dead wood that fuels fires... your correct. LNT at the level commented your better off not getting a permit. Lots of traces are made to accommodate everyone. This year they built stone stairways even. That’ll leave a mark. Haha!
10/13/2022 08:09AM  
aside from the LNT part, I enjoyed your trip report. Its important to find ways to connect and stay connected to the kids. you had crappy weather, thankful for the nice heated tent and did a great job putting up firewood.

pictures are always my favorite part of trip reports. i've never been on Brule so it was neat to see the landscape.

i also learned something new from your report! i was curious why you were keeping SMB so i review the fishing regulations and see there is now a northeast zone to the regulations. huh... guess i've been away from border lakes too long.

happy your brother could make it and your son had excellent quality time with his family.
10/13/2022 12:43PM  
Mocha,

Glad you enjoyed it! I relied on my brother to get the fishing regulations right, glad he nailed it. I almost never eat or keep any fish, but part of the deal was I would let him bring fish home to our dad who is too sick to go up and fish anymore, so I conceded. I also had some of those pictures printed for my dad who has always wanted to see my brother and I closer, which is finally happening almost 30 years after our parents got divorced and we got sucked into the war.
10/13/2022 12:46PM  
nctry: "Hey Bud... nice trip. You drove right past me having surgery Wednesday in Duluth. Now one might ask when it’s your daughters turn. Of course that’ll be recorded as you tube video. Haha.
As far as leaving no trace... at least some people clean up some of the dead wood that fuels fires... your correct. LNT at the level commented your better off not getting a permit. Lots of traces are made to accommodate everyone. This year they built stone stairways even. That’ll leave a mark. Haha! "

Daughter got her turn a couple years ago with a buddy of mine and his daughter, was also another great fall trip. Glad you are on the mend, Ben.
Dolpho
member (26)member
  
10/13/2022 12:50PM  
bumabu: "
Dolpho: "Looks like a great bonding experience for your family.



I don't normally read trip reports but since I have spent time on Brule in October I read your report.



The following statement really stood out while reading your report:



"We were also able to clear out another nice shore fishing spot on the island which gives good access to deep water and structure so future wind-bound parties can do some more shore fishing as well"



I then happened to view your profile which has the following statement for hobbies:



"Home improvement and construction which lead me to campsite engineering and improving while in BW"



I only have the one sentence to describe your actions at the Brule campsite. I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding what your actions were at the campsite regarding "clear out".



However I would like to kindly remind you that engineering and improving campsites in the BWCAW is a clear violation of the LNT principle. Creating a better shore fishing spot at an Island campsite is a violation of LNT. Those actions are to be performed only by the Forest Service.





"

Thanks for the feedback; I am aware of the rules. LNT is a very subjective buzzword and it means something different to everyone. I forgot to mention that I lost a few lead jigs in the rocks while fishing, and that I improved the shallow canoe landing at the campsite too.


I am at peace with any traces I leave, and we all have to admit that we leave them on every trip. I seriously doubt that clearing some deadfall from a shoreline would be frowned upon by the Forest Service, and if it bothers them, that would be indicative of what is wrong with our government these days. Improving campsite benches with dead and down wood or boulders is also acceptable IMO.


We, as the BWCA community, cannot wait for the underfunded Forest Service to do all the work, we have to take some ownership of the area as well. The BWCA is a treasure to be respected and enjoyed, and there is no harm in leaving a campsite better than you found it, so long as you are not killing anything significant in the process. A little bit of common sense goes a long way these days. "


Hi Bumabu, thanks for your response.

I agree that we all leave “traces”. Yes we lose fishing tackle from snags. Normal use of portage trails and campsites have an impact on the physical environment. Without those traces we couldn’t recreate in our beloved areas. We have the Forest service as our collective voice to implement a plan to slow our collective impacts. The Forest service is who we allow to make stone portages and campsite improvements.

I respectfully disagree that LNT is a subjective buzzword. The current rules and regulations as it applies to the BWCAW link: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5127832.pdf

Here is a snippet from the rules regarding firewood collection which can be applied to your clearing of deadfall on the island shoreline:

"When making a fire only use dead wood found lying on the ground; collect it away from campsites, portages, and shorelines to prevent enlarging and defacing these areas"

I am not a LNT “purist” who gets upset by someone leaving a note at the end of a portage trail or an overlooked piece of tin foil under the fire grate. But I do agree with the firewood regulation.

Over two decades ago in Quetico I witnessed a man paddle up to a large Red Pine that had fallen on the shoreline and was hanging out over the water. This guy sat in his canoe and cut branches off of the fallen tree for firewood. That leaves an ugly scar that is then witnessed by everyone paddling by.

You mentioned “traces” versus “impact” in one of your replies. You define clearing a fishing spot as a trace. Seems obvious to me it should be defined as an impact considering the regulations. Your definition of common sense and leaving a campsite better than you found it is what is highly subjective. This is why we have rules and regulations. So we can’t all apply our version of common sense. Even if we disagree with the rules.
10/13/2022 01:24PM  
Thank you for your research, it's much appreciated. The great thing about this is that we don't have to agree, but it was an incredibly engaging discussion and hopefully everyone gained some perspective.
OHPaddler
member (21)member
  
10/13/2022 03:45PM  
Cool trip report. Are bears already hibernating for the winter? If not - I'd be freaked out by cooking inside of a tent.
10/14/2022 09:21AM  
I don't think it smells any more than cooking outside of the tent. The difference would be that the bear might be more persistent about coming into the tent to investigate the smells. If that should be the case, he would not be rewarded with food. If need be, we could have vacated the area rather quickly, just part of the experience I suppose. I was much more worried about hypothermia in the event that we dumped the canoe.
10/17/2022 11:45AM  
Thanks for taking the time to write up your report!
Appreciate reading about a different style trip than I usually take. I've been on Brule during some weather...in my mind it will always be "Mightly Brule" after that trip.
11/04/2022 02:01PM  
Well done! Nice pics and nice report.
520eek
distinguished member(1382)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
11/05/2022 09:13AM  
I enjoyed the report and all the responses as well!
bottomtothetap
distinguished member(1047)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/03/2024 07:40AM  
The great thing about this is that we don't have to agree, but it was an incredibly engaging discussion and hopefully everyone gained some perspective. "

THIS! Yes, this!

Our whole society can benefit from this philosphy these days. The desire and ability to engage in civil discourse is being so rapidly lost.

I, for one, really enjoyed your report. I like how you created a valuable family experience. I once had my teenage son say to me, while we were on a BWCA adventure, "Great trip, Dad!". Now, ten years later, those three words are still a treasured memory, as they always will be.

My style of BWCA camping varies a good deal from what you described in your report but I still liked hearing about it because we are NOT all the same. It is also true (as it is probably true for most of us) that some of what you did and experienced on your trip may not have coincided with all and the most strict interpretations of LNT rules but you were mindful of them and seemed to act in the best spirit of them. When I've interacted with the rangers in the BWCA, that spirit--a sincere respect for the wilderness and best efforts toward minimal impact/no trace, or however you want to express it, is what has been conveyed to me as most important.

 
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