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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Group Forum: Boat Builders and Repair whats everyone building |
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10/22/2008 08:53PM
I am thinking about another prospector this year, or else something for just cruising local lakes. Where do you guys get your plans? Should we consider some type of passing around of plans?
What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country.
10/22/2008 09:04PM
I am going to order the plans for a 38 special from Northwest... however with my size they suggested that I increase the plans another 4% and increase the space between the stations to 12.5 inches to increase the length to 16.5 ft. I am 6'5 and 295 lb and need the extra for gear and such. The Merlin 160 would be fine just for me, but for extra gear for a week or more they suggested I upsize it a little.
Bruce
Bruce
Good Paddling, Great Fishing, and God Bless All...
10/23/2008 06:23AM
I'm building a Bob's Special. I got some plans from a guy on Craigslist who decided not to build it. I am stretching it out to 16 ft. by spreading the stations an extra inch. The plans are Bear Mountain, but it looks like they were actually ordered from Newfound. They must have been distributors for Bear Mountain at the time.
-Nick
-Nick
10/23/2008 11:23AM
Bruce - if you do a 38 Special just be mindful that there is NO rocker whatsoever in that keel. Goes right from the bottom of the bow dead straight to the stern.
When you put in a camping load it is difficult to turn. It's not like a river canoe at all. If you typically paddle hit-n-switch though it may be just fine.
When you put in a camping load it is difficult to turn. It's not like a river canoe at all. If you typically paddle hit-n-switch though it may be just fine.
Be an example worth following.
10/23/2008 12:34PM
I am just one of those hit and switch or hit and miss paddlers... I do not worry about a J-Stroke, only time I paddle on one side is if the wind forces me to. And a canoe with no rocker is no problem since it will be used primarily on lakes anyway, my SR Q 18.5 has 2 inches, my Wenonah Wilderness has 1.25 inches, so a canoe that would track good and not impossible to turn would be no problem... I like the looks of it too. I looked at the Freedom Solo 17, but liked the 38 special better.
Bruce
Bruce
Good Paddling, Great Fishing, and God Bless All...
10/23/2008 04:09PM
I built a 38 Special. I liked it a lot.
Concerning passing arround plans, I'm not sure what is legal. I know with some the purchase of the plans allows you to build one canoe. If you want to build another you're suppose to buy another set of plans. Of course the second is easier because you already have your strongback and forms and you don't really need the plans. It just acts as a license to build another.
The 38 Special I built was that way, but I bought it directly from Bruce Kunz. I don't know what Northwest Canoe's policy is.
I made a Wee Lassie where I created my own plans from chart points.
Another I got from a cheap little book called "Building the Strip Method" (I think). I got it from Canoe/Kayak Magazine years ago. Anyway, they had a design I built called "The Tradition". Great canoe!!! It was like a narrower and longer Prospector -- 17' long and 33" wide.
Concerning passing arround plans, I'm not sure what is legal. I know with some the purchase of the plans allows you to build one canoe. If you want to build another you're suppose to buy another set of plans. Of course the second is easier because you already have your strongback and forms and you don't really need the plans. It just acts as a license to build another.
The 38 Special I built was that way, but I bought it directly from Bruce Kunz. I don't know what Northwest Canoe's policy is.
I made a Wee Lassie where I created my own plans from chart points.
Another I got from a cheap little book called "Building the Strip Method" (I think). I got it from Canoe/Kayak Magazine years ago. Anyway, they had a design I built called "The Tradition". Great canoe!!! It was like a narrower and longer Prospector -- 17' long and 33" wide.
Bannock
10/24/2008 07:55PM
Bumabu and Bruce. You're welcome to go look around on my build page for the 38 Special to see how Chris and I did things. Just keep in mind it was pure learning curve. It was all rolling bevel and staples, and some really cool clamping with PVC pipes! I shamelessly borrowed (swiped) a technique for making cherry and ash gunnels.
Shoot - better yet if you are ever in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area give me a heads up and you can take it for a paddle.
Shoot - better yet if you are ever in the Grand Rapids, Michigan area give me a heads up and you can take it for a paddle.
Be an example worth following.
10/25/2008 08:45AM
Still tossing up a prospector upped to 17-18' or Chaa Creek by bear mountain. Redbird was my first love, but maybe not quite as practical, especially for first try at building a strip. I've seen several stages of process, but only "hung out" and helped before.
Not to Hurry-Not to Worry
10/27/2008 09:15AM
Woodbender, I would love to paddle it if i ever get out that way, thanks a lot! truth be told though, I will prolly have mine built before i get there. Do you find turning to be that difficult not having any rocker?
Who I am precedes what I do, not the other way around.
10/27/2008 11:31AM
Bumabu - the turning is different. And there are some things to be mindful of.
Placement of the seat should NOT be done exactly amidships. We had ours about 6" in back of center and still I am seriously considering moving it back further. Why? Because it weathercocks a little more than I like to see. In a crosswind the back end tends to go with the wind so that tells me the seat is not centered according to the canoe's balance point.
The balance point is different because the hull is asymmetrical (it's a tad wider in back that the front - like a pear).
Because there is no rocker it is sometimes easier to turn by "heeling" it over a tad. This can be ticklish to a person not familiar with the handling of the 38. Some people think it feels a little tender and it feels like it wants to tip. But when I am kneeling in the bottom and slightly heeled over it turns just fine.
Slightly heeled over creates your own rocker so to speak.
Chris had some difficulty with it on Crab Lake this summer. But it may have been a weight distribution issue in the back end. The entry and exit lines are nice and graceful but the back end on ours should have had more "swoop" and not as much like a right angle. The back end functions like a fixed rudder the way we built it.
I will modify that on the next build. But definitely I am modifying the placement of the seat on the existing 38.
Placement of the seat should NOT be done exactly amidships. We had ours about 6" in back of center and still I am seriously considering moving it back further. Why? Because it weathercocks a little more than I like to see. In a crosswind the back end tends to go with the wind so that tells me the seat is not centered according to the canoe's balance point.
The balance point is different because the hull is asymmetrical (it's a tad wider in back that the front - like a pear).
Because there is no rocker it is sometimes easier to turn by "heeling" it over a tad. This can be ticklish to a person not familiar with the handling of the 38. Some people think it feels a little tender and it feels like it wants to tip. But when I am kneeling in the bottom and slightly heeled over it turns just fine.
Slightly heeled over creates your own rocker so to speak.
Chris had some difficulty with it on Crab Lake this summer. But it may have been a weight distribution issue in the back end. The entry and exit lines are nice and graceful but the back end on ours should have had more "swoop" and not as much like a right angle. The back end functions like a fixed rudder the way we built it.
I will modify that on the next build. But definitely I am modifying the placement of the seat on the existing 38.
Be an example worth following.
10/27/2008 01:29PM
I have designed a cedar sliding seat which i will be mounting front edge 6 inches behind balanced center, it will have 13 inches of rear slide space, for when i pack kid, dog or gear in front.
Who I am precedes what I do, not the other way around.
10/27/2008 09:11PM
The plans I bought from Bruce Kunz calls for the seat of the 38 Special to be 6" aft of center. However!!! That is the front of the seat, NOT the center of the seat. The front edge of the seat is always used for seat placement. That may not be intuitive. So whenever placing a seat always use the front edge as your marking spot.
If you want a seat centered, it should be the front edge that is center. 6 inches aft? The front edge should be 6" back.
If you want both the bow and stern seats the same distance from center, the measurement is from the center of the canoe to the front edge of each seat.
If you want a seat centered, it should be the front edge that is center. 6 inches aft? The front edge should be 6" back.
If you want both the bow and stern seats the same distance from center, the measurement is from the center of the canoe to the front edge of each seat.
Bannock
10/28/2008 10:40AM
FYI..
to those of you thinking about a 38 special or Merlin, Dennis at Northwest Canoe has designed a new solo with differential rocker to address the concerns you have regarding turning.
Look at the lower right of this newsletter and you'll see more information on it.
to those of you thinking about a 38 special or Merlin, Dennis at Northwest Canoe has designed a new solo with differential rocker to address the concerns you have regarding turning.
Look at the lower right of this newsletter and you'll see more information on it.
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children -Chief Seattle
10/28/2008 10:45AM
I have already built a cedarstrip so I decided to try something different. I'm building a stitch-and-glue style solo canoe this winter. No forms to build and should go together much quicker. Not as graceful or as beautiful as a stripper (hee hee) but should make a good boat.
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children -Chief Seattle
11/15/2008 07:47PM
So has anybody here built a 17ft Freedom from Canoecraft by Ted Moores?
I've generated station forms from my CAD program and I'm going to cut those out in the Spring most likely.
But I was just curious to hear if anyone had actually built one here.
I've generated station forms from my CAD program and I'm going to cut those out in the Spring most likely.
But I was just curious to hear if anyone had actually built one here.
Be an example worth following.
04/13/2009 05:43PM
Started setting up my strongback for the Freedom 17 footer by Steve Killing (Shown in Canoecraft). I'll be steaming up the stems here pretty quick. I'll do inner stems this time around but not outer stems. I like the clean lines of a finger joint at the bow and stern. This will replace the outer stems. I'm sure there are pros and cons but I did it this way on the 38 Special (now called the Merlin 160) and it really turned out a fine entry line in the water.
I'm not settled on how the bottom (football) is going to get filled in. We did parallel strips from the keel to the curve of the bilge last time. I briefly considered a herringbone for the bottom but the Freedom's keel doesn't lend itself to that method of construction.
Anybody got some great brainstorming ideas for the bottoms? Any pics?
(keep it family rated please) :)
I'm not settled on how the bottom (football) is going to get filled in. We did parallel strips from the keel to the curve of the bilge last time. I briefly considered a herringbone for the bottom but the Freedom's keel doesn't lend itself to that method of construction.
Anybody got some great brainstorming ideas for the bottoms? Any pics?
(keep it family rated please) :)
Be an example worth following.
04/13/2009 06:57PM
eglath - I'm rebellious by nature? I even wear my pants backwards (well no - not really).
From reading Canoecraft they propose to build the bottom (football) "past" the keel line (in the typical curved pattern) and cut it back to the keel center line. I might still do that, I'm just curious who else has done what on the football area.
I guess I'm looking to find alternate football area designs that other builders had done.
From reading Canoecraft they propose to build the bottom (football) "past" the keel line (in the typical curved pattern) and cut it back to the keel center line. I might still do that, I'm just curious who else has done what on the football area.
I guess I'm looking to find alternate football area designs that other builders had done.
Be an example worth following.
04/13/2009 07:49PM
we've done the football the way they describe it in the book with both a stapled and a staple-less design. i can imagine doing it that way with beveled planks...but not without staples (we use bead and cove) -- that would seem to be a nightmare...
02/19/2010 12:42AM
I am glassing the inside of my Freedom 17-9 tomorrow morning. I started in September mostly following the Canoecraft directions. For the football I cut the centerline and matched the bevel. No holes in this boat. It has gone well for a first canoe, and I can't wait to start my second!
"Hold on, I think I can get in without getting my feet wet."....SPLASH...
02/21/2010 02:21PM
Woodbender,
Thanks! I know the feeling...I waited for 6 years to build this as I didn't have a heated shop either. I look forward to following your Freedom build over at Bear Mountain forums.
Thanks! I know the feeling...I waited for 6 years to build this as I didn't have a heated shop either. I look forward to following your Freedom build over at Bear Mountain forums.
"Hold on, I think I can get in without getting my feet wet."....SPLASH...
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